kk just going to start a fresh thread here incase people who dont check my build thread have something else to offer as a possibility.

Having and have been having a TON of oil leak problems with the upper section of my engine.

First off.
Lets eliminate the possibility of a leaking gasket or O rings.

Is no indication of cracks, deep scratches, or the mating surfaces not being straight.

I have installed the entire thing 100% correctly this time now that I got a working torque wrench.
which eliminated the leaking lower cylinder gasket that kept leaking before.

No indication atm of the upper cylinder gasket leaking.
I will be sure to check that again and again to be sure next time I go at it.

O rings between the cylinders and head are brand new and installed correctly.

all gaskets are installed properly.

one possible location of a leak, is above the number/letter plate in the photo below.
but also a possibility of it leaking behind it where to rods go up through the engine.
not my engine below, just one of where its located.



Im totally lost at this point and need some additional advice.

but no I have not located the Exact spot of the leak at this time.
I will be doing so later on today.

but the obvious is either the upper cylinder gasket now and its leaking onto the area in the photo and I cannot see it doing so.

or behind the numbers/letters plate where the rods go up.

if it ends up being just a gasket... Terrific!
easy fix!

but any other possibility is out of my grasp at this point and what I could do about it.

(edit)
heres a better photo of where it exactly is and what its doing.

oil starts to gather first right at the ends of the arrows.
and might be coming from the start of the arrows where the rods are located.
then it gathers on the red line until it fills up, then begins to fill up into the front area of the engine below the headers.

That is a pic of the front of the jug where it meets the front of the bottom end of the motor right?.  Is it fresh oil, or balck oil?  If it's the latter,, double check the exhaust gasket.  If it's fresh oil, double and triple check the cam cover gasket....remember, gravity is gonna make the oil run down, so I would look above that area.....

chuck a bit of flour at it to see where it is sticking, that will show you the trail and where it comes from.

actually one thing I forgot to add that I didnt think mattered before.

but if its leaking where the rods go up through the motor, then I might have an idea why.

About the only thing not brand new in there are those wretched copper washers that go below the bolts on the rods.

they are pretty beat up from being taken out over and over and over.

So if anyone "KNOWS" the problems they can cause, lemme know.
dont give me more pipe dreams of it getting fixed without certainty hahahaha

think I will order new ones Friday (copper washers) along with the 2 cylinder gaskets just incase and end it on that, fixed or not.

unless I find the problem is elsewhere.

I've always heard crush washers crush once and only once.

When you in there again, replace ALL gaskets and ALL crush washers. Don't re-use anything. Play it safe.

Quote from: adidasguy on March 20, 2012, 12:08:19 PM
I've always heard crush washers crush once and only once.

When you in there again, replace ALL gaskets and ALL crush washers. Don't re-use anything. Play it safe.

yep.
I have to now.
Located the leak just now.
Only leaking in the front there where the rods go up through the cylinders.
and nowhere else.

where its circled.


so now its 2 possibilities.

Copper washers being reused are causing it.
or the rods are Funked.

even tho neither of the cylinder gaskets are leaking.
going to buy new ones and copper washers Friday.

then that will be the very last attempt.
if she doesnt leak, great.
if she does, shes being replaced.

as if it does leak, then it would mean theres something wrong with the rods.
and if those cant be replaced... bye bye engine.

so... can they be replaced?
the rods that the cylinders and head slide down on.

(edit)
okay!
it appears on the diagram that they can be replaced.
#2 & 3 in the diagram.
http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/model_years/3546-suzuki-1994--gs500e/assemblies/124878

so I would need Four 3's and Four 2's?

and how much of a pain is it to get them out?
I would assume a Real Witch!

oh well.
confirm i need what I asked and I will be purchasing everything above on Friday just to be safe.

I don't think rods leak. The crush washers and gasket hold in the oil. The rods just hold the parts together.

Go all new gaskets, washers, seals, etc. and I bet she won't leak.

Re-used and smashed up crush washers 

Especially since you over-torqued them before....

Are you talking about the cylinder studs that hold the jug onto the bottom half of the motor? 

Quote from: craigs449 on March 20, 2012, 02:57:58 PM
Are you talking about the cylinder studs that hold the jug onto the bottom half of the motor?

Yea
I'm gonna take it apart and see if they are straight

Quote from: Tombstones81 on March 20, 2012, 03:21:08 PM

Quote from: craigs449 on March 20, 2012, 02:57:58 PM
Are you talking about the cylinder studs that hold the jug onto the bottom half of the motor?

Yea
I'm gonna take it apart and see if they are straight

Straight or not, they wont leak.  It's gotta be the copper washers and/or base gasket in that area.

so if you just have to replace the washers on the bolts, you only have to drop the engine, just to make it easier, and remove the valve cover, maybe the cams, and just unbolt, rebolt with new gasket washers.

they are 5 bucks on mrcycles ea. if you wanted to shop around.


see! its not so bad.


unless you already fully tore down. then: 

Okay.
just going to copy my build thread update here.
as the quickest and most replies I can get would Greatly help out!
because I can always borrow someones credit card to purchase the copper washers later on today instead of waiting until Friday.
and then have them Alot sooner.

was on the toilet thinking... hahaha
BEST spot to do so!

If my theory is correct then it Just might be only the copper washers.

okay, I have no book education on engines.
just common sense and hands on experience.

The rods that the cylinder and head slide down on.
Oil obviously doesnt go UP them.
which got me thinking....

the oil doesnt leak right away, it takes some time before it starts to.

soooo
maybe the oil is leaking through the copper washers from the top and slowly making its way down the rods and leaking out the bottom where its open in the front of the cylinders where its been leaking that I posted pics of.

making sense?
as I didnt see anyone put it in those terms yet.


heres a simple visual of looking at what I mean.
Oils coming through the copper washers at the top.
Flowing down the rods, which are on the Outside of the internals.
and coming out the bottom in the pic below as the arrows are pointing.



I still have yet to get my head directly in front of that spot and shine a flashlight right on it while its running tho.
to see if the oil truly is flowing Down the rods.

gotta take the front rim off first tho.
too tired atm so if I wake up early enough I will do just that.
if not, tomorrow.

Copper washers - yes as you said they were crap.

To locate start of leak:
1. Clean engine very well
2. Be sure it is 100% dry
3. Puff baby powder all over the place.
4. Look for dark spots in the baby powder
5. Run engine
6. Watch for first signs of dark baby powder.
7. You found the start of the leak