Starting a new thread. This one will be for the rebuilding/repair of Junior.

I had a great time on Vashon Island riding with about 20 other bikers - mostly BMW as it was sponsored by a BMW dealer.

I had to limp home after lunch. He ran fine for the first 3/4 of the trip (about 30 miles). Then on the way to lunch bad sounds came from him. Junior may have broken a valve or sometrhing else on the top end came loose. He was extremely hot when stopping for lunch. Oil was full - but smoking out of there when I removed the oil cap (HOT!) On part of the last bit before lunch he nearly died then started running rough. The more I went the worse the sound.

There is this annoying clanking of metal and sound of stuff hitting a piston and the inside of the valve cover. Yes, I know I said "annoying" where really is is an extremely BAD sound. After he cools down I'll take off the valve cover for an initial look. Hopefully just the top end and I can swap that out.

Interesting, he does idle at the right speed. If I ignore the metal banging against metal, he does have normal power.

So that's what happened today. I guess I over stressed the old guy and he decided to die.

This is the start of the rebuilding of Junior's engine.

Good luck!
Sucks to hear that.

Hopefully its nothing major.

I might be in the same boat (valve problems) but i think i caught mine before anything to bad happened. least you have another bike, and another bike, and another bike to ride.

OK. Here's the scoop. Follow along and read between  the pictures.
I now recall it was about 5k RPM going into a downhill turn and needed to slow a little so down shifted. Engine almost died but kept going after letting the clutch out. Noise and clatter kept getting worse as continuing on and going home. Engine always idled OK and had power. If you think you know where I'm going and you get to the end and agree - please cry with me.

* Removed valve cover. Rotated engine and guess what - it did not jump timing.


* Oil - 1 year old. 10k KM (remember Junior is Canadian). A little dark, but no debris in the oil.


* Thinks look OK down the timing chain cavity and the chain is tight. (Ignore dates on pictures - I never set the date in the spy camera)


* Both pistons look OK on the top so no metal there




So, in getting the engine with a piston at the bottom I cranked the timing clockwise. Then a little counter clockwise and GRIND coming from the transmission.

Can we say that a down shift shattered something in the transmission? That would cause all the metal clanking while the engine still keeps on running?

What do I do now? Doesn't seem necessary to remove the top end. Even the valve clearances all were OK in the range of 050.

I can add that with the cover off and the plugs out I did crank the engine. Cranked smooth with an occasional paTing or CaClunk but not from the cams, or anything that seemed like the top end.

I'm thinking I did a bad thing and downshifted at too high RPM thus shattering something.

What do I do now? Drain oil and remove the side covers? I might as well. Can't get any worse and he was due for an oil change.

Sounds like you need to check the teeth on the clutch plates. Junior may have lost his teeth. Time to call the tooth fairy?
If Im barking up the wrong tree forgive me ......I know nothing about bikes

Quote from: codajastal on April 28, 2012, 04:51:49 PM
Sounds like you need to check the teeth on the clutch plates. Junior may have lost his teeth. Time to call the tooth fairy?
If Im barking up the wrong tree forgive me ......I know nothing about bikes

You might know more if it were upside down?
I have spare clutch baskets. if that's all it is - great. If iots the gears - well, that remains to be seen. I have donor motors or I'll fix up the spare 2006 engine and to a total clean up, rebuild and rewiring on Junior.

Open to more suggestions and anyone wanting to come over and help me.

I think I'll either drain the oil from Junior or take Phenix for a ride to the gym.

OK. Decided to dig further.
This looks clean:


Should this push in and out 3/4 inch? I didn't think the shift lever did that. Although he did shift just fine before I took the cover off. So what gives?


I think I'll quit for the night. Not sure what is next. 

I would take the clutch basket off and take it apart and look at the clutch plates, when i had my clutch problems i didn't think the clutch plates were bad and after i took the whole basket apart i could see that they were all burnt, granted my clutch basket had a bolt that snapped in half. I dont think the shift lever is suppose to do that. (move that much)

As I recall, the shift level should not move in and out at all.  Something is amiss in Junior's transmission.  It's also odd that you hear a clank when you turn the engine by hand.  Could be something bad in the bottom end.  You could drop the oil pan and check for debris there too.

The clutch worked fine. The engine ran with normal power. The funny sounds when hand turning the engine appeared to come from the rear - transmission area. Engine actually turns real nice by hand. Very smooth operation.

When cranked by hand, it was normal. I did a small crank backwards to get the piston at the bottom to see with the spy cam. That's when I hear this unusual grinding/scraping sound from the tranny area.

More I am thinking the transmission. It started at a down shift at high RPM. Bike ran all the way home. Started fine at the ferry and after the ferry ride. No loss of power, no stalling, no smoke. Normal idling.

Just this incredibly loud clacking, banging and metal hitting metal sound. It kept getting worse as I got closer to home.

Interesting that a look inside the cylinders with a spy cam shows nice, clean pistons. No metal fragments or debris in them at all. If the engine blew a valve, wouldn't there be loss of power or smoke? Wouldn't I see odd stuff when peering through the spark plug hole with the spy cam?

Thinking about it and that it happened on a down shift with no loss of engine power or acceleration, me thinks I am gonna hafta crack open the motor. I do have 2 1989 engines with good bottom ends and low compression. I can take the tran out of one of those (one has that bad pin for the timing thingy - good candidate to cannibalize).

I want to take a break but I am so tempted to pull the engine and crack it open. Anybody want to help?

Any more thoughts on this?

I guess I could disassemble Junior and do a total clean-up. Maybe rewire with a 2006+ harness and switch to newer carbs? I'll clean up an area of the Cave for Junior's parts.

Quote from: adidasguy on April 28, 2012, 08:31:05 PM
The clutch worked fine. The engine ran with normal power. The funny sounds when hand turning the engine appeared to come from the rear - transmission area. Engine actually turns real nice by hand. Very smooth operation.

When cranked by hand, it was normal. I did a small crank backwards to get the piston at the bottom to see with the spy cam. That's when I hear this unusual grinding/scraping sound from the tranny area.

More I am thinking the transmission. It started at a down shift at high RPM. Bike ran all the way home. Started fine at the ferry and after the ferry ride. No loss of power, no stalling, no smoke. Normal idling.

Just this incredibly loud clacking, banging and metal hitting metal sound. It kept getting worse as I got closer to home.

Interesting that a look inside the cylinders with a spy cam shows nice, clean pistons. No metal fragments or debris in them at all. If the engine blew a valve, wouldn't there be loss of power or smoke? Wouldn't I see odd stuff when peering through the spark plug hole with the spy cam?

Thinking about it and that it happened on a down shift with no loss of engine power or acceleration, me thinks I am gonna hafta crack open the motor. I do have 2 1989 engines with good bottom ends and low compression. I can take the tran out of one of those (one has that bad pin for the timing thingy - good candidate to cannibalize).

I want to take a break but I am so tempted to pull the engine and crack it open. Anybody want to help?

Any more thoughts on this?

I guess I could disassemble Junior and do a total clean-up. Maybe rewire with a 2006+ harness and switch to newer carbs? I'll clean up an area of the Cave for Junior's parts.

After hearing more i also think that it would be the trans, too bad you dont have a cabin in Northern Minn, i would stop over and help being that i have 3 days off after today.

Come here to Seattle for a few days! I have a spare bedroom. Extra bike. Extra helmet.

I wish, i got to go down and see my wife and kid, and got to drive down to my parents house haven't been there in a month, i've been working for a week straight, and 12 hours days on the weekends, one got a week left of school tho, so that will be nice.

Ok, I'm in for bad tranny day tomorrow.  We can swap the bottom ends and be done with it.  No need to crack the case, just swap direct.  New gaskets on the top end and we are right as rain.

1-3pm?

Ouchies Adidas...

Maybe try putting him on the center stand and just running through the gears a few times to see if you hear the sound again?

Scotty is the man! 

If I were closer, I'd be there as well. I do agree though - swap bottom ends (is the cam chain rivet type or clip?) and call it a day. Rebuild Juniors motor at your convenience.

I've got an 89 with a good bottom. Junior's top is excellent. Here were the plugs after I got home. I removed the carbs in prep for engine removal and the intakes look nice. The exhaust side looks good, too. A little whitish on the valves and both sides match.

I feel it is the tranny. That damned down shift - I heard it happen. What else could it be? Probably chipped a gear tooth then with the additional 3 miles riding, things just kept getting more chewed up in the tran.

Sorry Adidas, long night........but have you drained the oil yet? If there's a small magnet on the drain plug, check it for metal. Then I would go with Bomb: pull the pan and see what's hiding in there.

Quote from: Big Rich on April 29, 2012, 01:31:04 AM
Sorry Adidas, long night........but have you drained the oil yet? If there's a small magnet on the drain plug, check it for metal. Then I would go with Bomb: pull the pan and see what's hiding in there.

The wrong tree is being barked at.

Check for goats or stalwarts syndrome. The transmission is like an anvil in strength.

Oh, and don't run it anymore, or turn the drivetrain. If I'm right, you're hurting things when you do.

Oil drained. Looked old, but no metal.
By the sounds it appears tran.
I do plan to take of stator cover just to check everything out.
Doubt goats. I have a charging LED and it indicated full charging all the time. So no stator damage.
Carbs off. Oil drained. Right side off. So he's not going to be turning over for  while.
Left cover will come off tomorrow. I don't think goats. But while tearing into the engine, I might as well check everything to rule out various possibilities.