Quote from: X-ray on June 27, 2012, 09:33:41 PM
String method

b i n g o

Quote from: sledge on June 29, 2012, 07:31:59 AM

Quote from: slipperymongoose on June 28, 2012, 04:18:01 PM


You just can't help yourself can ya? Always nitpicking.

Oh the irony 

How bout u jump infront of a bus?

How bout u answer my question? 

Quote from: sledge on June 28, 2012, 08:51:45 AM

Quote from: slipperymongoose on June 27, 2012, 03:09:26 AM
Laser beats eye

Assuming the laser hasnt taken a knock. So on that basis here is a question for you....if the laser says its spot on but it looks out when you check it by eye.........what would you do?? 

Get your eyes checked

Quote from: sledge on June 29, 2012, 10:31:06 PM
How bout u answer my question? 

How bout you blow me?

Quote from: slipperymongoose on June 29, 2012, 11:55:21 PM
How bout you blow me?

From here?

No the north pole

Go on give us an answer.........tell me what you would trust more, some cheapo laser tool that never gets calibrated or your own eyes? 

I trust my laser

Quote from: slipperymongoose on June 30, 2012, 01:06:34 AM
I trust my laser

I trust your laser as well. Hell I would trust any laser before I trusted the eyes

Think of flying in a cloud. You sure don't want to trust your eyes or any of your other senses.
Go with the laser. Pick up a 3 dollar laser at a dollar store and make a small bracket to attach
to rear sprocket.

Quote from: mcgimp on June 30, 2012, 12:41:15 PM
Think of flying in a cloud. You sure don't want to trust your eyes or any of your other senses.
Go with the laser. Pick up a 3 dollar laser at a dollar store and make a small bracket to attach
to rear sprocket.

+1

While Sledge can be a bit harsh, he has never been wrong in my opinion.  I have a natural tendency to be a jackass myself, so Sledge and I may get along just fine.

You guys are correct, in that laser light is perfectly straight.  However, placing the laser pointer on top of the chain where it will naturally turn toward the front sprocket won't help much.  Tools for alignment are machined for the purpose, so that the laser is mounted perfectly parallel with the item being aligned.  They also have means to check or adjust alignment with a known standard.  A $20 laser level in a plastic housing is certainly subject to issues.  I really don't see how BBoy really lines up his laser level with the rear sprocket.

I trust laser alignment tools too but like the ones I use in industry ONLY when I know they are calibrated. No way would I trust some cheapo thing that didn't come with a calibration cert and is not subjected to calibration on a regular basis in the same way a torque wrench is......however it would seem some of the more naive in here are not as aware or as trusting.

"" Yeah I know the chain LOOKS out but its been aligned by a laser and they are NEVER wrong so it MUST be right ""

A foolish assumption to make, yet again it seems a little knowledge is a dangerous thing to some in here 

Dont believe me???....try the first paragraph 

http://www.pruftechnik.com/alignment-systems/repair-and-calibration.html

Quote from: Paulcet on June 30, 2012, 05:42:33 PM
While Sledge can be a bit harsh, he has never been wrong in my opinion.  I have a natural tendency to be a jackass myself, so Sledge and I may get along just fine.

You guys are correct, in that laser light is perfectly straight.  However, placing the laser pointer on top of the chain where it will naturally turn toward the front sprocket won't help much.  Tools for alignment are machined for the purpose, so that the laser is mounted perfectly parallel with the item being aligned.  They also have means to check or adjust alignment with a known standard.  A $20 laser level in a plastic housing is certainly subject to issues.  I really don't see how BBoy really lines up his laser level with the rear sprocket.

Certainly open to skepticism, Paulet.  I will indeed agree that it isn't as accurate as the actual thing because it still relies on lining up the rear sprocket and laser level by a certain amount of 'eye adjustment' with notches on the back of the laser... and the notches are of different width of the sprocket itself, so there is going to be a certain amount of error.  But it certainly aids  in lining things up, and better than using just your eye. 

Just don't discount it because it is in a plactic housing  , that doesn't make the tool itself less accurate. The user and method of use makes it 'less accurate' if you will.   Many high dollar lasers are in plastic housings to make them lighter because of how they are used.

- Bboy

Quote from: sledge on June 30, 2012, 10:35:45 PM
I trust laser alignment tools too but like the ones I use in industry ONLY when I know they are calibrated. No way would I trust some cheapo thing that didn't come with a calibration cert and is not subjected to calibration on a regular basis in the same way a torque wrench is......however it would seem some of the more naive in here are not as aware or as trusting.

"" Yeah I know the chain LOOKS out but its been aligned by a laser and they are NEVER wrong so it MUST be right ""

A foolish assumption to make, yet again it seems a little knowledge is a dangerous thing to some in here 

Dont believe me???....try the first paragraph 

http://www.pruftechnik.com/alignment-systems/repair-and-calibration.html

I supervise a lab that relies on a single laser that is accurate and precise to the .0001 percent.  We put our full faith and millions of dollars in trust to this single laser everday, and it is calibrated every 20 hours, and adjusted for temperature, humidity, ambient light input, and other changing variables at a minimum rate of every hour.  I can feed a line about how Bad-A the methods are all day for calibration, but it would be an earful of jargon no one cares about... The truth is, if this laser were to be off in its calibration and go from .0001 percent to .001 percent (which is a ten fold change btw). It would only skew its final measurement by .001 of a percent, which is negligible for most measurement!

Anyways, my point is that you pay a large amount for small increases in quality no matter what it is.  And for lasers that I work with, that happens to be a $5000 difference between the model that measures .0001 vs .001   ... and nearly all daily measurements would never actually need to be as precise as they are.

So, use some parallels and apply whats above to the actual topic, and you may see my angle here.

- Bboy

Quote from: BockinBboy on July 02, 2012, 06:28:27 AM

Quote from: sledge on June 30, 2012, 10:35:45 PM
I trust laser alignment tools too but like the ones I use in industry ONLY when I know they are calibrated. No way would I trust some cheapo thing that didn't come with a calibration cert and is not subjected to calibration on a regular basis in the same way a torque wrench is......however it would seem some of the more naive in here are not as aware or as trusting.

"" Yeah I know the chain LOOKS out but its been aligned by a laser and they are NEVER wrong so it MUST be right ""

A foolish assumption to make, yet again it seems a little knowledge is a dangerous thing to some in here 

Dont believe me???....try the first paragraph 

http://www.pruftechnik.com/alignment-systems/repair-and-calibration.html

I supervise a lab that relies on a single laser that is accurate and precise to the .0001 percent.  We put our full faith and millions of dollars in trust to this single laser everday, and it is calibrated every 20 hours, and adjusted for temperature, humidity, ambient light input, and other changing variables at a minimum rate of every hour.  I can feed a line about how Bad-A the methods are all day for calibration, but it would be an earful of jargon no one cares about... The truth is, if this laser were to be off in its calibration and go from .0001 percent to .001 percent (which is a ten fold change btw). It would only skew its final measurement by .001 of a percent, which is negligible for most measurement!

Anyways, my point is that you pay a large amount for small increases in quality no matter what it is.  And for lasers that I work with, that happens to be a $5000 difference between the model that measures .0001 vs .001   ... and nearly all daily measurements would never actually need to be as precise as they are.

So, use some parallels and apply whats above to the actual topic, and you may see my angle here.

- Bboy

were going to need to see the coolness that is your lab stuff, k?   


the largest calibrated anything I've seen was a lathe bed, checked once a week for true and warp. it was 53 feet long and varied around .001-.010" depending on what the temperature swing, operator, and shaft load was that week.

the lazer alignment was really neat at first,and tedious. it also meant if there was any taper, or out of round that the steady rests were damaged, or the operator did something wrong. very, very nice machine.

as far as purchasing a laser for chain alignment, I'll stick to something readily available, cheap, and pocket able without worry or batteries required.... a piece of string.

now please, yes, show off your lab. I wanna see some fine machine tools being used as they should be. its been a while.

That is very cool stuff, and actually probably more cool to see because of the length.  But definately tedious, even with the help of computers -  I work with very small scale compared to that of a lathe bed.  The visible length of laser is 60cm (about 2ft), the rest is covered by the internals of the machine.

I wish that I could share more. Unfortunately, it would be a breach in policy to take pictures of the lab let alone, in addition to posting them online 

Certainly don't take my word for it though, I work for the government, so I'm trained to lie. 

*Is he serious?*

But really, none of it is as official as it sounds, it is just the nature of the work its related to.

- Bboy

Quote from: BockinBboy on July 30, 2012, 05:46:48 AM
That is very cool stuff, and actually probably more cool to see because of the length.  But definately tedious, even with the help of computers -  I work with very small scale compared to that of a lathe bed.  The visible length of laser is 60cm (about 2ft), the rest is covered by the internals of the machine.

I wish that I could share more. Unfortunately, it would be a breach in policy to take pictures of the lab let alone, in addition to posting them online 

Certainly don't take my word for it though, I work for the government, so I'm trained to lie. 

*Is he serious?*

But really, none of it is as official as it sounds, it is just the nature of the work its related to.

- Bboy

well crap... maybe next time!