Amen to that.

I'm not imposing anything on anyone, I putting some things out there that a lot of people aren't aware of and may want to consider. Feral cats and domestic outdoor cats aren't a part of a natural balance any more than destructive overbreeding  foreign exotic  species brought here and released. They in fact destroy the balance of nature and bring about catastrophic loss of local species. Not to mention the untold number of people in residential areas who poison and shoot cats they find killing birds they feed and enjoy. BTW, none of my cats are fat and lazy, nor do they express any desire to go outside. You have, and can point out cats that live long lives inside and out----I can point out people who have survived terrible crashes not wearing seat belts----exactly what does that prove?

By the way, the Black Death was only spread by rats and fleas once the disease had hit the town, the disease itself sweep across the entirety  of Europe at a very rapid pace and rats could not have done that, rats establish homes and stay put, they don't collectively sweep across a continent in what was estimated to be a non stop pace that could cover hundreds of miles in a week. Cats would not have helped in this particular situation, they would pick up and distribute diseased fleas from what few rats they killed. The fleas were the problem regardless of what mammal  they happened to be on. The disease wiped out towns miles isolated from other towns where the inhabitants never left their respective villages ---so much for the rat causing the plague myth. If the plague was airborne as some theorize, then it wouldn't really matter much who was spreading what, pretty much everyone and everything was going to get it anyway.

Quote from: adidasguy on June 25, 2012, 04:12:37 PM
I have cats.They go in and out. All my cats have done that. Previous 4 lives 17 years.
They enjoy going in and out.
What you do for your pets is up to you. Let's not all freak out and try to impose personal beliefs on everyone else.
So cat's eat a bird. Its all a part of nature.
Cats eat rodents. That is also a part of nature and balances the environment.
When man steps in and attempts to impose certain beliefs on nature, things go wrong.
One cause of the black plague was rodents carrying fleas which carried the disease. the abundance of rodents was due to fear of cats (especially black ones) so the killing of cats removed a predator for the rodents and the rodent population skyrocketed and the plague spread.

If you are worried about a bird being killed, how are you going to impose that on all of nature so no bird gets killed? Start feeding the owls and eagles so they don't eat smaller birds? Let the mice and rats run rampant because you don't want one to ever be killed by another animal? So with overpopulation they die of starvation so what do you do now? Let nature be nature. animals eat, die, kill others and poop on your head as they fly over.

Lets let each care for their pets as they wish.

I would prefer a happy, active cat that goes in and out for 12 years over a bored, lazy indoor cat for 15 years. I know my cats are happy outside. They come out and hang with me in the bike cave. They like that. Before they git a kitty door, they would be at the door whimpering like sad puppies. They wanted to be outside with me. They were unhappy being left inside. I would be devastated if one got run over. On the other hand, by going in and out they are happy, active and healthy. They can get sat on, slip on something, get caught in a door or poisoned by living inside. There are risks inside and outside.

Love your pets and care for them. Give them a good life.

^^ What Adidasguy and Codajastal said.  I could not have said it better.

Quote from: ojstinson on June 25, 2012, 10:38:42 AM
That's a good way to look at it, I should just think of it as being my cat's "time" to get his eye shot out by a couple of neighborhood brats. What if it isn't your cat's time to go, what if it's just your cat's time to get his face chewed off by a stray dog and you have to watch him suffer while you spend a bundle getting him treated or putting him out of his misery.

Again, how many of these things would happen to your cat inside the house?

And also, be working on your "it was his time to go" speech to your kids when the unthinkable happens, that always makes them feel better. And be sure and let us all know so we can feel sorry for you and the grieving family.

Maybe the difference here is that we view our animals as pets and not a family member. If indeed something hurtful was to happen to my cat such as being mauled by a dog, I would put him down myself. We've put birds down every year that fall out of our backyard trees during storms because they cannot be saved.

I really don't want to talk about kids since it's a touchy subject because we all have different parenting techniques. But my kids are 5 and 7 and understand well what happens in nature. They've seen the animals our cat have brought back and have buried them. They've also seen our nieghbors toy dogs get run over so I really don't have a special speech per se.

And if my pets pass away I really have no urge to share it with anyone so please don't feel sorry for us.

If I live with with your logic then my pets and kids would never step a foot outside the house. What a life.

I give you factual information and opinion on the hazards of letting your cats out, do with it what you will.

Quote from: seamax on June 25, 2012, 07:02:29 PM

Quote from: ojstinson on June 25, 2012, 10:38:42 AM
That's a good way to look at it, I should just think of it as being my cat's "time" to get his eye shot out by a couple of neighborhood brats. What if it isn't your cat's time to go, what if it's just your cat's time to get his face chewed off by a stray dog and you have to watch him suffer while you spend a bundle getting him treated or putting him out of his misery.

Again, how many of these things would happen to your cat inside the house?

And also, be working on your "it was his time to go" speech to your kids when the unthinkable happens, that always makes them feel better. And be sure and let us all know so we can feel sorry for you and the grieving family.

Maybe the difference here is that we view our animals as pets and not a family member. If indeed something hurtful was to happen to my cat such as being mauled by a dog, I would put him down myself. We've put birds down every year that fall out of our backyard trees during storms because they cannot be saved.

I really don't want to talk about kids since it's a touchy subject because we all have different parenting techniques. But my kids are 5 and 7 and understand well what happens in nature. They've seen the animals our cat have brought back and have buried them. They've also seen our nieghbors toy dogs get run over so I really don't have a special speech per se.

And if my pets pass away I really have no urge to share it with anyone so please don't feel sorry for us.

If I live with with your logic then my pets and kids would never step a foot outside the house. What a life.

agreed. ive had to put down a cat as well. was no saving it. ( broken neck. ) one of 2 times ive ever discharged a firearm in teh city. other time was at shop. anyways. never had problems with indoor/outdoor cats. ive got one i dont want out yet. he is mental. working that out of him and letting him get used to outside life as well. he only eats when im around. he was a rescue from a FORMER friends house. they were talking abotu smashing its head in, or setting him out. with the other6. i told him. DUDE. do NOT do that. if you hated cats that much do NOT have any. i took em all with me. brought 5 to a no kill shelter and dammit came home with me. btw the other 5 are in good homes now. i did without food that night. to get these animals to a good place. ( 50 mile drive) they were 9mos old. i do treat my cats and one dog as members of my family. they know when iam not feeling well. or i get cold chills i wake up and find 2 cats laying on top of me. cant beat a warm fur coat lol. they know if my back is hurting, i get claw massages. ( but no scratches)

Quote from: ojstinson on June 25, 2012, 03:53:40 PM

Life for outdoor cats is risky. They can get hit by cars; attacked by dogs, other cats, coyotes or wildlife; contract fatal diseases, such as rabies, feline distemper, or feline immunodeficiency virus; get lost, stolen, or poisoned; or suffer during severe weather conditions. Outdoor cats lead considerably shorter lives on average than cats kept exclusively indoors".

I typed up a long response to you last night, but refrained from posting it because it was a bit abrasive when I re-read it. It's clear that you love your pets a lot, and that's great that you do and that you try to minimize risks to them. Life, for any living thing, is inherently risky though. There is a huge number of things that could kill or maim any creature, whether they were indoors or not. It all comes down to how much risk are you willing to take. Having lived with indoor only cats, as well as indoor/outdoor and barn cats, I will say that personally, I'd rather have an active, happy pet that lives a shorter life than a bored, and probably overweight one with a longer life.

Sorry for the loss, I've had a few pets meet the same end.

On a slighty funny/morbid note, I was driving the cage a few months back and a rabbit hit me. Not the other way around. The poor little thing ran under my rear passenger side tire. 

Quote from: k.rollin on June 26, 2012, 02:04:45 AM





I typed up a long response to you last night, but refrained from posting it because it was a bit abrasive when I re-read it. It's clear that you love your pets a lot, and that's great that you do and that you try to minimize risks to them. Life, for any living thing, is inherently risky though. There is a huge number of things that could kill or maim any creature, whether they were indoors or not. It all comes down to how much risk are you willing to take. Having lived with indoor only cats, as well as indoor/outdoor and barn cats, I will say that personally, I'd rather have an active, happy pet that lives a shorter life than a bored, and probably overweight one with a longer life.

I give you factual information and opinion on the hazards of letting your cats out, do with it what you will.

I, for one, do not think it is acceptable to let your cat roam free and do as it pleases. They kill birds, fight other cats, piss on patio furniture/plants, poop in places you don't necessarily want cat poop...etc..

Why is it okay to let your cat run around but not your dog? Last I checked, leash laws apply to both cats AND dogs.

Don't like the idea of having to keep your pet indoors and actually take care of it? Don't f%$king get one. Plain and simple. If you can't endure the responsibility of owning an animal, forgo it. That's how it works.

I find it to be much the same as people who have children, don't raise them correctly or do so in an apathetic manner, and then try to blame society for their shortcomings. One good example is the idea that you can be sued because you don't have a lock on your gate and a child enters your yard and gets maimed/killed by your dog; or drowns in your pool. It's your responsibility as a parent to watch your children. If you don't, and something happens to them, it should be YOUR fault. NOT someone else's.

Yesterday I saw on North bound 85 just south of salisbury I saw a tortoise trying to cross the road.
Man that was so sad, no way the bugger was going to get anywhere near the other side.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: Kijona on July 02, 2012, 08:30:16 PM
I, for one, do not think it is acceptable to let your cat roam free and do as it pleases. They kill birds, fight other cats, piss on patio furniture/plants, poop in places you don't necessarily want cat poop...etc..

Why is it okay to let your cat run around but not your dog? Last I checked, leash laws apply to both cats AND dogs.

Don't like the idea of having to keep your pet indoors and actually take care of it? Don't f%$king get one. Plain and simple. If you can't endure the responsibility of owning an animal, forgo it. That's how it works.

I find it to be much the same as people who have children, don't raise them correctly or do so in an apathetic manner, and then try to blame society for their shortcomings. One good example is the idea that you can be sued because you don't have a lock on your gate and a child enters your yard and gets maimed/killed by your dog; or drowns in your pool. It's your responsibility as a parent to watch your children. If you don't, and something happens to them, it should be YOUR fault. NOT someone else's.

Finally, someone on here with some common sense about this, one can rationalize all they want  but the fact is there is no good side to letting a cat roam free outdoors, if it ends badly it's the owners fault 100 percent.

Holy shiiiizzz....

1st.  OP, I am sorry about your loss. 

2nd.  This turned out to be the most ridiculous thread EVER and while I won't debate whether or not you should let cats enjoy the great outdoors, I will leave a friendly bit of advice in hopes to prevent future generations from being subject to the same ridiculous debate...

... Always get your pets spade or neutered and if your neighbor tells you to put a leash on your cat... get him/her spayed and neutered too.


That is all... carry on

you've got to be fuckin kidding me.
To the OP: I am sorry for your loss as any pet's death is horrible.

To everyone else: REALLY?  As some have read I can't wrap the whole "cat" thing around my head. Now I understand having a cat on the farm for rodent control and such but for anybody to get that butt-hurt (look it up) over the great indoor/outdoor cat debate is astonishing. 
But since opinions are like a$$holes. If you have your cat running lose in my neighborhood tearing up my trash or shitting on my porch it will be returned with green or possibly pink paint on its ass. Cats are not dumb and learn fast and the paintball gun (turned low) is a great teacher. Usually by the second time they get it.

If I was to impose my cats on my neighbors I could only hope that a paintball up it's a s s was the worst it had to endure.

Come to think of it this is a pretty dumbass thread to dump on a motorcycle forum.

#5023

Yep - this thread really got off track.

As for the dog/cat on a leash issue. Dogs will jump on people, run up to them, bark, sniff, hump and do other things. Cats don't do that. About the  worst a cat will do is scratch the hell out of you if you pick it up and it doesn't want to be picked up.

Dogs do run and jump and attack. You have guard dogs - no guard cats. Guards dogs because dogs can attack, bite, maul and kill. You don't hear of a cat attacking and killing a baby like you hear of dogs attacking and killing small people or chomping on innocent people. Hence the laws for leashes and many cities banning certain breeds (though it is more the owner because remember that the dog Petie on Little Rascals was a pit bull!)

Dogs chase cars and run under the wheels. I ran over a poodle that way - felt sorry for the kids that thought chasing cars was cute. Try to approach a dog that doesn't want you around and you can be met with sharp teeth and a viscous attack.

A cat will probably hiss at you and run away. Rare for a cat to attack unless cornered.

So there is a little food for though on why we have dog leash laws and laws regarding large or viscous dogs. You don't have the same laws for cats because they do not  and are not capable of inflicting the same amount of injury to a human as a dog can.

Let the flaming posts begin! time to sit back and watch.....

Somebody ticket Adidas for inciting a riot.

I really am having a hard time NOT ranting here. I hope one day I understand this cat thing. That's where I'll stop. For now.maybe .....

Tard Farm candidate?