My son and I have been working on his '95 500E over the summer.  I don't have a lot of experience working on motorcycles beyond routine maintenance, but I'm comfortable with a wrench, and this seemed like a good way to teach him some basic mechanics, get him used to working on his own bike, and have some fun all at the same time.  As we've gone through this, I've posted individual threads, but some of the issues we're still have are starting to look like they're connected, so I thought I'd start a new thread to collect everything in one place.

Here's the back story on the bike.  My wife's brother bought the bike in Denver for my son to ride while he was out there a little over a year ago, and he brought the bike out to us last summer in the back of a pickup.  Unfortunately, we don't know anything about the bike's history before it was bought -- it's obviously been dropped on the right side, so it has a dent in the tank and some scuffs, but otherwise seems sound.  I've only ridden the bike a couple of times to a shop for the state inspection, but it didn't seem to have the acceleration I would have expected.  My son has his learner's permit, and is legal to ride during the daytime, but my wife and I are firm believers in a quick bike is more likely to let you get out of any trouble, so that's where this whole project really started.

Here's what's been done so far:
- cleaned the carburetors and replaced all of the o-rings (except the ones below the slide guides) and the diaphragms
- re-jetted (just for kicks) from stock to 40/140 with one washer and 2.5 turns out on the pilot screws (we just followed the re-jetting table)
- replaced the stock airbox with a lunchbox filter
- replaced the plugs -- the insulator on the left one was almost black and the right was almost new looking

When we put it all back together, it actually started -- we were shocked -- and much more easily than before.  We balanced the carburetors, and it sounds like a whole different bike.  It's much more responsive to the throttle, and doesn't bog down or hang when the throttle is opened/closed.

That's more or less where we are now.  There are still some issues that for me are uncharted waters, and I'll put them in additional posts just to keep things organized.

The biggest problem we're still seeing at the moment is that we're getting gas in the oil sump.  We had hoped replacing the o-rings, which hardly qualified as o-rings anymore, in the carburetors would stop it, but it hasn't, at least not completely.

We changed the oil and filter, and then I remembered I hadn't checked the float heights when the carburetors were out for the first cleaning.  When I pulled the carburetors, I noticed raw gas in the left intake boot, and down into the intake area of the cylinder head, but only on the left cyclinder, not the right.  All of a sudden the black left plug makes a little more sense.  Turns out the float heights were way off, by 3-4 mm, in both bowls, but maybe a little worse in the left.  Could this have caused gas to overflow into the intakes when the bike was not running?  I think I have them adjusted correctly now, but it may take some time to see if it's fixed the problem.

Any thoughts on anything else I can check while we're waiting to see what effect the float adjustment makes?

Thanks.

If the float height is set wrong, the float needle won't cut off fuel. So yes, what you saw is very much an indicator of improper float height. With the carbs back on the bike, you can use the clear tube method to check the float height. Attach a clear tube to the float bowl drain, bend it into a 'U' shape, set the petcock to prime, and open the float bowl drain. The fuel level in the tube should stay below the float bowl gasket.

Thanks.  It's good to know that floats that far out of whack could cause the problem, and I'm hoping adjusting them may have fixed the problem.  It also occured to me, though, that if the float needles aren't seating completely, they could leak slowly causing the flooding overnight.  Is there a way to check whether the needles are completely sealing off the gas flow?

The best way to check the needle/seat condition in to pull the carbs, drop the bowls and look. The tip of the float should be a perfect conical shape, it shouldn't have any depressions on the face of the rubber. The orings in the seats will probably need re-done too.

I didn't see that you do a carb rebuild kit when you had the carbs out. I would consider doing this. also i would check the valves- easy to do and there is a vid on here on how to do it. Also if you rejeted and put a pod air filter i would suggest putting on a different exhaust to make the whole system work better. you have more air and gas, but the same exhaust.

Quote from: Dizzledan on August 09, 2012, 09:31:57 AM
The best way to check the needle/seat condition in to pull the carbs, drop the bowls and look. The tip of the float should be a perfect conical shape, it shouldn't have any depressions on the face of the rubber. The orings in the seats will probably need re-done too.

Both times I had the carbs out, I checked the condition of the needles and the seats.  The seats show no sign of wear, and the needles have conical tips with no sign of wear by the eyeball method.  The o-ring at the top of the valve seat was replaced in the initial cleaning.  One question, though:  the black, conical tops of the needles are fairly hard, and so far as I was willing to push on them, they really didn't seem to have any give.  Is this just a hard type rubber, or should they softer like, say, an o-ring?

Quote from: knowles
I didn't see that you do a carb rebuild kit when you had the carbs out. I would consider doing this. also i would check the valves- easy to do and there is a vid on here on how to do it. Also if you rejeted and put a pod air filter i would suggest putting on a different exhaust to make the whole system work better. you have more air and gas, but the same exhaust.

I'm not familiar with what's included in the rebuild kits.  I've replaced the o-rings and diaphragm, and cleaned everything else I could.  Are you thinking of some specific part of a kit that I've overlooked?  A different exhaust may be an option for a later time if my son really gets into riding.  Unfortunately, it wasn't until after the air filter and new jets were in did I see some posts about about the lunchbox filter/larger jets/stock exhaust maybe not being optimal.  What would I be looking for as far as checking the valves (sorry, I'm new to really anything other than things like oil changes, plug changes etc)?

Rebuild kits typically include a new float needle, float needle seat (w/ o-ring pre-installed), float bowl gasket, float o-ring, and carb cap o-ring.

Quote from: RossLH on August 09, 2012, 10:50:34 AM
Rebuild kits typically include a new float needle, float needle seat (w/ o-ring pre-installed), float bowl gasket, float o-ring, and carb cap o-ring.

That would have been easier.  I ordered the o-rings and gasket separately, but I'm re-using the float needle and seat (maybe a mistake).  By 'float o-ring' do you mean the one that seals over the long metal opening for the choke circuit?  If not, I may be missing an o-ring entirely -- seems unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

Thanks.

I'm talking about the o-ring at the end of the float assembly that seals the choke circuit and holds the float assembly in place.

Great, we're on the same page.  That one was replaced along with the rest.  Thanks, and sorry for the confusion on my part.

Here's a miscellaneous sort of thing while I'm waiting to see what happens after the float adjustments.

Because the bike was taken down on the right side sometime in the past, the right footrest rubber is torn just enough to make you uncomfortable as your foot shifts around.  I ordered a replacement, but misread the parts diagram and got the left foortrest  .  Even so, it looks like the rubber part doesn't have a left/right version even though the metal part of the footrest does.  What I'd like to do is put the new left footrest on the bike and use the old one's rubber to replace the torn rubber on ther right one.  Before I start ripping out fingernails trying to get the rubber off, is it even possible to do or are there any tricks to doing it?

Just for the record, the gas level should be even with the float bowl gasket; not above, and not below.

I think you did the right thing not getting a rebuild kit.  The needle valves that come in the aftermarket kits didn't work for me anyway.  New OEM ones worked great.  If you can't get the gas level worked out with your current needle valves, just order a new OEM set.

Quote from: bombsquad83 on August 09, 2012, 02:41:39 PM
Just for the record, the gas level should be even with the float bowl gasket; not above, and not below.

I think you did the right thing not getting a rebuild kit.  The needle valves that come in the aftermarket kits didn't work for me anyway.  New OEM ones worked great.  If you can't get the gas level worked out with your current needle valves, just order a new OEM set.

After the carbs were pulled the second time for float adjustment, I used the tube attached to the bowl drain method (on the benchtop, not installed on the bike) to confirm what I'd done, and I think I have them darn close to what they should be, and what you describe.

It seems like I pretty much bought a rebuild kit piecewise except for the float needle and seat.  I'm really interested in the float needle at this point, though.  Should the black rubber tip of the needle be sort of like a pencil eraser in terms on 'bendiness' or should it be a hard rubber?  The needles we have now are hard, and until knowles mentioned that they're rubber, I thought they were some sort of composite or ceramic.  At this point, I'm halfway planning to order a pair of needle valves to be safe.

Thanks

It's probably worth your piece of mind to order new ones.  So many fuel in airbox/crankcase posts on this forum its not even funny.

As soon as I can convince my wife, who says we're way overbudget , that new float needles are necessary, I'm going to order them, or buy them locally if I can find them.  The place I've been ordering parts from only sells the needles and seats as an assembly, but I'm really only interested in the needles.  Does anyone know of a place that sells the needles separate from the seats?

Thanks.

They are sold as a set for a reason.  They ware together (supposedly).

Doh ... that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks.

After 2 days, there doesn't seem to be any change in the oil level, so changing the float heights may have done the trick.  We did get some gas in the oil in the bike now, though, so I'm going to change it out again in the next few days to be safe.

Since the last oil change a few days ago, my son has put ~60 miles on the bike and mentioned that he thought the clutch slipped a few times, usually during acceleration -- rpm's suddenly increase but the bike doesn't go with it.  When I did that oil change, I managed to find a filter locally and bought the oil there while I was at it -- a gallon of Kawasaki 10W40, which was all they had.  I looked at the label and it said it was for wet-clutch bikes so I took a chance.  Now, I'm wondering if the new oil could be the reason for the clutch slipping.  The label said it was suitable for API-SL and JASO MA/MA-2 applications.  Should I be looking for something below SL?

Thanks.

Quote from: salamander on August 10, 2012, 02:25:04 PM
After 2 days, there doesn't seem to be any change in the oil level, so changing the float heights may have done the trick.  We did get some gas in the oil in the bike now, though, so I'm going to change it out again in the next few days to be safe.

Since the last oil change a few days ago, my son has put ~60 miles on the bike and mentioned that he thought the clutch slipped a few times, usually during acceleration -- rpm's suddenly increase but the bike doesn't go with it.  When I did that oil change, I managed to find a filter locally and bought the oil there while I was at it -- a gallon of Kawasaki 10W40, which was all they had.  I looked at the label and it said it was for wet-clutch bikes so I took a chance.  Now, I'm wondering if the new oil could be the reason for the clutch slipping.  The label said it was suitable for API-SL and JASO MA/MA-2 applications.  Should I be looking for something below SL?

Thanks.

It's a possiblity it's the oil, i forget if you do or don't want wet clutch oil. I stick with the Castrol synthetic motorcycle racing oil, it's usually cheap since it's an older oil (not new technology) but i've used it in every bike i've ever owned.
i've heard good tings about royal purple as well and i may try it the next time i do an oil change