Quote from: adidasguy on August 29, 2012, 01:20:05 PM

Quote from: burnchassis on August 28, 2012, 01:10:01 PM
the engine sold for 465??  and the bid was 450?
WOW
You didn't want it very bad!
Lesson #2
-CS

1997 motor 3500 miles $202.50 + $200 shipping Florida to Seattle.
Can't believe I got it! I would have thought southern people would jump at it.

But now what are you going to DO with it? LOL

Yeah I saw that one on there for bid.  I dont get paid until Friday so was kinda scared off by the not being able to pay until then.

In hindsight I guess I have 4 days to pay, but dont want to piss people off.  I just took it as a sign that I need to be patient and maybe take a look at my engine first.

There was another posting on here, of a guy that tore apart his engine and repaired it.  Did not seem too hard, just time consuming, and his highest expense, the crank, I see on Ebay for MUCH cheaper. 

Whats the gotchya here, what am I missing about these cheap cranks on ebay?

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=58696.0

Quote from: stokes776 on August 28, 2012, 05:55:41 AM
Well I lost the auction on the cheap $450 engine and am finding it hard to be patient and wait for something else good to come along.

From researching the forums it looks like it is completely possible to drop in an older engine (< 2004) into a new chassis (2004).  The only caveats are no oil cooler, and something to do with the tachometer that I haven't quite made heads or tails of yet.

You can do that.

Tach: Since older is mechanical and your bike is electronic, simply plug off the tach hole on the engine.
TIMING: Simply take the timing rotor and pickup from your 2004+ engine and drop it into the older engine.
OIL COOLER: Don't worry that it doesn't have one. It is there for added cooling due to restricted air flow from the fairing. Unless you're stuck in traffic at 100* and not moving, you'll be fine.

The basic engine is the same. Get a good working one - any year - and you'll be up and running shortly after you put it in the frame.

I have some parts engines. If you know what you need, I may be able to pull the parts for you.
One bottom had the counter balance go out. So that case is toast but the crank should be fine. Another bottom end has the hole for the index pin of the timing rotor all boogered. Should be able to JB weld a pin in there. My plan was to use the crank from one engine to replace the one with the boogered index pin. With this $200 engine coming, I probably will not do that. (Just crack the case on one to see what's inside for giggles and fun).

Thanks adidasguy! I will keep that in mind as I start to work on this. 

I've noticed, many times, you guys like pics, so while it doesn't have much to do with the engine, here is the bike (prior to breakdown) at the scenic overlook at Dragons Tail. 

Note my awesome tail bag, an Adidas gym bag bungied to the rear. You can just barely make out the logo

Skipping all the steps of getting it from the shop 100 miles away to a neighbors garage...

I removed the engine from the chassis last night by myself.  Wow that was an adventure.  Took me 7 hours, I am sure some of you will laugh and say that took way too long but for a novice I think I did pretty good.

Couple of questions/comments:

1. While draining the oil, a smell of.. maybe burning... maybe metallic smell was present.

2. Drained the oil.  Very black/dark.  Did not notice any large metal fragments, but then again did not know what I was looking for.  Dumped the oil into a larger pan and set the small one upside down.  Came back to get it when I was removing the oil cooler and noticed quite a bit of sparkly assuming metal dust/sand in the pan.

3. Exhaust Header bolts. Mine were really rusty, OK to re-use or should get new ones?

4. Engine Mounting Bolts.  Haynes manual says they are self tightening one time use (the six that hold on the removable engine bar chassis on the right hand side).  Do I need to replace them?

5. Was talking to a guy that dropped by but didn't have time to help, he said the hardest part would be cracking the case.  I am thinking he means the bottom part, I haven't really researched that yet I guess.  All the videos and drawings I have seen I guess have revolved around what is called the upper part of the engine? Is cracking it hard?

6. Due to the metal in the oil, I think I need to... remove the bottom oil pan, think its called the sump? to make sure I get all that crap out of there?

All of this I plan on researching intently, however if anyone has any comments or tips that would be much appreciated. 

Removing the engine went fine until I smacked the crap out of my finger when removing, of all things, one of the fairing brackets.  The fairing bracket was just in the wrong position to allow for the engine to slide out and I attacked it too quickly, got a nice blood blister under the fingernail now that is throbbing constantly.

Also,

I am still considering a new engine, because at this point all I have done is remove this one.

We will see what I find when I crack it open tonight.

if you fragged the engine with low oil and had metal on metal, its VERY likely to finds metal dust in the oil.

When I pulled and replaced my engine, I added mew headers bolts and anti sieze

You can buy new nylon lock nuts or add a drop of blue lock tight

Once you have all the case bolts out, there are two lips on the front and back of the case where they meet together, you can gently pry right there and pop them apart. I had no problems doing mine that way.

Chances are, you are not going to be able to reuse it. I found this out the hard way. With that being said, enjoy and have fun. Take pics along the way and let us know what was damaged.

Hey guys, was doing some reading and came across the last post in this thread: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=41261.msg463950#msg463950

It mentioned, if you dont run the oil cooler, you cant use the fairings.

Any truth to this?  My bike is a 2004 GS500F, and I am seriously considering a 98 Engine to put in it, but would hate to lose the fairings.

Everyone says the oil cooler was added when the fairing were added because the fairing restrict air flow. Thus the need for a cooler. Makes sense to me.

There was an "E" fairing. It hugs the engine tighter than the "F" fairing. It doesn't seem to be a problem. I guess if you were in the desert and stop & go traffic you might over heat. Otherwise I wouldn't worry much. Just be aware you could overheat in adverse conditions.

The fairings and oil cooler showing up at the same time is pure coincidence, air cooled bikes with fairings have run fine for decades without oil coolers.....forward motion is what cools the motor. Needing an oil cooler as a prerequisite for use of a fairing is BS, pure myth, old wives tales and urban legend 

So why does the engine need an oil cooler? Surely they didnt redesign the lower case for fun?

Quote from: weedahoe on September 06, 2012, 05:31:11 PM
So why does the engine need an oil cooler? Surely they didnt redesign the lower case for fun?

Heat is the enemy of the air cooled motor, adding an oil cooler is an improvement to any air cooled motor..any time, adding a fairing sparked interest in a dated design? Don't think for a second one is required to have the other, cause that's not the case.

EDIT: I believe both where just part of the evolution of the bike to keep it marketable for a few more years??

Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on September 06, 2012, 05:59:44 PM

Quote from: weedahoe on September 06, 2012, 05:31:11 PM
So why does the engine need an oil cooler? Surely they didnt redesign the lower case for fun?

Heat is the enemy of the air cooled motor, adding an oil cooler is an improvement to any air cooled motor..any time, adding a fairing sparked interest in a dated design? Don't think for a second one is required to have the other, cause that's not the case.

EDIT: I believe both where just part of the evolution of the bike to keep it marketable for a few more years??

Could be that evolution part. I personally like the fairings over not having them.

Alright, so I pulled the trigger and got a 98 GS500 engine.  ETA 10 days. Will work on the 04 engine during the winter.

Couple of questions.

1. Startup procedure for a (assuming) dry engine?  I had a co-worker mention something about removing spark or fuel and trying to start it, presumably to circulate the oil?  What do you guys do with dry engines?

2. I know about the no oil cooler, and then there is the tach hookup, which going from the old broken 04 engine, I gather is electrical, to the new 98 which is mechanical, from reading I need to move a component.  I thought it was the Timing Rotor, maybe also referred to as Signal Generator? This thing in the linked fiche?  I think its under the right hand side engine panel right?
http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gs500-f-usa_model16026/partslist/434116.html#results

So I am good to move my 04 timing rotor/signal generator to the 98 engine and that will get my tach working?  Please excuse me if I am way off.

After re-reading some previous articles I think I misinterpreted the whole tach thing.

I don't think I can get my 04 Gauges to work on the 98 Engine.  I don't have the 98 Engine to try anything yet, but I found the part that I misinterpreted, and wanted to correct myself here in case anyone else find this in the future.

Oh well, I drove a stick shift truck for 10 years without a tach,  I guess I can try to ride a bike without a tach for a while, since those mechanical tach gauges are pretty expensive on ebay.

I don't know what you read, but the electric tach will be fine - just plug the hole in the head.

You do need to move the timing pickup since the old and new are a little different, so you want to keep the new with your newer bike's electrics, but that's only peripherally related to the tach (it drives the CDI and the electric tach gets its signal from the CDI.)

Lots of people have done this and reported success. So don't decide it won't work before you even try it, eh?

Edit, add: Dry engine startup - put in oil. Take out sparkplugs, put a teaspoon or so of oil in there (engine oil fine, or it's one of the mysterious uses for marvel mystery oil) & leave the plugs out, or loose if you have a particularly filthy envrionment you haven't bothered to clean up (why not?) where crap could fall in the plug holes if they were open.

Put it in gear on the centerstand and use the rear wheel to turn it over by hand a few times (I suppose you could push it around a parking lot in gear as well if it made you happy.) 6th will be the easiest gear (think about it until it makes sense, or just take it on faith.)

Check the oil level again, adjust if need be, turn over a few more times by hand, wind the plugs in, turn the fuel on, and fire that sucker up...

The basic engine is the same.

You can swap the timing pickups and timing rotors from 89-2002 to a 2004+ and back.

2004+ does have 3 wires from the neutral switch. 1 is neutral.
The other 2 are 1st and 2nd. Their purpose is emissions and timing crap=o=la. You can use the 98 neutral and ignore the 2 extra wires or swap the newer neutral switch into the 98 engine.

Carb boots should stay with your carbs. Newer boots 2004+ are a little different from older ones. Use new o-rings when moving the intake manifolds (carb boots).

As you swap and move things, switch to allen hex stainless screws. I did that in the timing pickup and so did bluesmudge because the JIS screws always get stripped. Same for carb boots. Pretty much anything I can I switch to SS allen heads.

Speedo is the same.

tach: you can connect electronic to the input of one of the coils or get a mechanical one. I think I have extras though face design might not match exactly.

Quote from: weedahoe on September 06, 2012, 01:51:19 PM
Everyone says the oil cooler was added when the fairing were added because the fairing restrict air flow. Thus the need for a cooler. Makes sense to me.

Not `everyone` says that at all 

Thousands of brand new Es were sold in Europe in the 90s with a factory fitted 3/4 TCP fairing, I bought and sold at least 10 of them, none of them had an oil cooler fitted and non of them ever displayed even the slightest hint of overheating. ......so explain that.

The F and later TCP E fairings are almost indentical and it wouldnt surprise me if TCP actually designed and manufactured the F fairing for Suzuki.

http://gs500e.free.fr/access/tcp.php