Quote from: oldsportSo I guess I still need to find out if the fitting coming from the top of the petcock is Res. (and the horizontal tube pointing to the rear is ON.)

I guess I'm just slow on the uptake sometimes.  Even if I can't trust BikeBandit to tell me which tube on the tank-mounted petcock is the REServe tube, they WILL tell me whch hoses are for ON vs RES!

Take a look at the BikeBandit: 2002 Suzuki GS500K2 Fuel chicken diagram.  Item #5 is the ON hose, and it connects to "the fitting coming from the top of the petcock".  Item #6 is the REServe hose, and it connects to "the horizontal tube pointing to the rear".

Now all you need to know for sure is: which tube on the tank-mounted petcock is which?

I'll take a look tonight when i get off work (2002 gs)

Quote from: KerryTake a look at the BikeBandit: 2002 Suzuki GS500K2 Fuel chicken diagram.  Item #5 is the ON hose, and it connects to "the fitting coming from the top of the petcock".  Item #6 is the REServe hose, and it connects to "the horizontal tube pointing to the rear".

Now all you need to know for sure is: which tube on the tank-mounted petcock is which?

Kerry, You're anything but slow on th UT.  

Actually, I'm always seeing bike bandit mentioned here but never bothered to actually take a look.   I guess I'm the one's who's slow.

We'll, I don't know about you, but I'm pretty well convinced that they ARE reversed.  One way to find out is to swap the hoses and then ride until........  Right now, I'm up to 160 mi. so that could happen tomorrow or Saturday if it doesn't rain.  

Thinking about it, there's a nice 4-5 mi. loop around my neighborhood. I could wait until it's up to 230 mi or so and then with cell in hand (to call my wife to come find me with a gas can), start doing laps and see what happens.  Then I'll report back.

I even have a picture of the loop. I live in the red dot in the middle.

Going the "personal experience" route is a fine idea, but I just thought of another method that should be faster, cheaper, more convenient, and just as effective.

Assuming that you have a length of fuel hose and an empty gas can, that is.

But before reading on, try the "squat-down-beside-the-left-spark-plug-and-look-for-an-R-or-O-stamped-into-the-tank-mounted-petcock" trick.  If you see an R or an O, you're DONE!  (With the diagnostic portion, anyway.)

If the petcock isn't marked, here's the "exhaustive" process:

* Make sure your gas can will hold as much fuel as you have left in the tank!
* Use your key to remove the seat.
* Remove the 2 fuel tank mounting bolts.
* Lift the rear of the tank until you can get a long flathead screwdriver to the shutoff valve.  (I prop the back of the tank up with a short 2x4 laid across the frame.)  Turn the slot in the shutoff valve in either direction until it's horizontal (OFF).

* Pull the stock fuel hose from the short tube and push on the length of extra fuel hose in its place.
* Put the other end of the extra fuel hose into the empty gas can.
* Use the screwdriver to turn the shutoff valve back ON (slot vertical).
* Let the fuel drain from the tank to the can until it stops flowing.

* Turn the shutoff valve to a horizontal (OFF) position again.
* Pull the extra fuel hose off of the short tube and replace the stock hose.
* Pull the stock fuel hose from the long tube and push the extra fuel hose on in its place.
* Turn the shutoff valve back ON (slot vertical).

IF FUEL FLOWS INTO THE GAS CAN AT A REASONABLE RATE, THE LONG TUBE IS THE "RES"ERVE OUTLET.  IF NOT, IT'S PROBABLY THE "ON" OUTLET.

====================================

Having typed all of that out, you could take a BIG shortcut if you don't mind spilling a little gasoline:

* You should be able to disconnect the hoses from the fuel tank outlet tubes without taking ANYTHING (seat, tank) off the bike.
* Start with the short tube again.
* Holding the extra fuel hose at the ready, pull the stock hose off of the tube and quickly push the extra hose on before too much fuel spills out.
* When the fuel stops flowing, replace the stock hose on the short tube.
* Repeat the previous 2 steps with the long fuel outlet tube.
* Check the ALL CAPS diagnostic above.

====================================

I can even think of an improvement on THIS method, if the fuel level is low in the tank and you have a "hefty" friend or a handy non-marking wall:

* Before pulling hoses off of the outlet tubes, tilt the bike to the right.  Hopefully this will prevent any spillage.
* Once the extra fuel hose is securely connected, tilt the bike upright again to test the fuel flow.  (Allow for sloshing in the tank.  It may fool you into thinking you have good -- albeit intermittent -- fuel flow when you wouldn't have ANY if the fuel were motionless in the tank.)

====================================

Have I kicked this horse to death yet?  

Let us know what you find out!!  

Quote from: KerryGoing the "personal experience" route is a fine idea, but I just thought of another method that should be faster, cheaper, more convenient, and just as effective.

Hi,

I hope my wife doesn't read this!  I have her convinced that I need to go out for a couple hours tomorrow for a ride. Alone.

Seriously, thanks. I'll probably try your measurement method. It rained today and I think it's planned for Saturday too. I need to make the effort to see what's under the tank anyway.  Also, it's time to check the valve clearances. I might do that at the same time.

I'll let you know what I find.

Kerry and others,

Test results:

Determining which tube exiting the bottom of the gas tank is 'RESERVE'  and which is 'ON'

The short version:

On the center-stand, with the tank in it's nomal position, gas lid open;

I took the hose attached to the LONG tube coming out of the tank that has the (R) next to it, removed it from the frame petcock and began draining into a gas can.

When it stopped flowing, I then tested the hose coming from the SHORT pipe. It flowed at a rate similar to how the first hose had flowed before it stopped flowing.

Verdict, on a 2002 GS500E with my exact VIN, the LONG tube coming out of the tank is the 'ON' and the SHORT tube is 'RESERVE'.  

Now help me, what was my question again?

I guess mine was hooked up right all along?  The question remains, why wouldn't it pick up gas when I put it on reserve and even pri last week?

And JamesG wins the rubber cigar!

That was nice of them to put that little R next to the ON tube.  

Bad pun: Maybe they intended to mark an 'L' for LONG?  Don't the Japanese tend to substitute L's with R's?  Lotus, Rotus etc.

OS

Don't laugh when you read this, but are you SURE the tank shutoff valve is FULLY OPEN? I was having fuel starvation problems on my (used) 2001 GS, and I finally decided to take everything apart and find the freakin' problem. It seemed to run best in prime, almost as good in RES, and not very well ON. This was only at highways sppeds, no problems just buzzing around the local neighborhood.

As soon as I lifted the back of the tank, I saw that the fuel valve was cranked about 1/3 on. This happened the last time I removed the tank, I just failed to get the thing completely turned open. So I opened it up, took a ride, problem solved. Now I am consistently getting about 70 mpg and the bike runs fine.

Quote from: oldsportI took the hose attached to the LONG tube coming out of the tank that has the (R) next to it, removed it from the frame petcock and began draining into a gas can.

When it stopped flowing, I then tested the hose coming from the SHORT pipe. It flowed at a rate similar to how the first hose had flowed before it stopped flowing.

Verdict, on a 2002 GS500E with my exact VIN, the LONG tube coming out of the tank is the 'ON' and the SHORT tube is 'RESERVE'.  

[...]

That was nice of them to put that little R next to the ON tube.

Some comments & questions:

* This is the first time that you mentioned the letter "R" on the 2002 tank-mounted petcock.  If it's stamped on there, I would trust that more than my "flow method".  (Is there an "O" stamped above the shorter tube?)

* Since the short (ON?) tube flows longer than the long one, I suspect that the in-tank screen for the long (RES?) tube is somehow gunked up and not allowing fuel to flow when it should.

? Did you let the fuel flow from both tubes until neither one would allow more fuel out?  I would be curious about how much fuel was left in the tank at this point.  (If ON flowed until it was done, and RES didn't even flow THAT long because of gunk, there should still be a gallon or more in the tank.)  Do you have a length of tubing lying around that's long enough to let you siphon the remains of the tank into a gas can?  If you do, I would siphon until you can't get any more out, then 1) Record how much extra fuel you got out, and 2) Pull the tank-mounted petcock and inspect / clean / test it.

Well, I let the long tube flow until it completely stopped.  I took out over a gallon.

At that point, looking in the tank, it had several inches.  Far more than it had the day I ran out. That day, I could see the bottom of the tank in the middle and the gas was more around the edges.

I then switched over to the short tube and it flowed at a high rate for several minutes or so until I got bored and shut it off thinking that I had the answer.  I'd say I had 3/4 to a gallon at that point in my can.

Long is ON and short is Res.

Yes, the R was next to the Long tube.  I didn't look for the O next to the short tube.  

Someone else needs to try this to verify it.

OK, call me "slow on the uptake" again.  Why do I just assume that the fuel tank-mounted petcock on your 2002 is different from the one on my 1999?  :x

Here are the results from BikeBandit:

Petcock assemblies on my 1999
BikeBandit Part number (for item 9 on the diagram) is 499271-001.

Petcock assemblies on your 2002
BikeBandit Part number (for item 8 on the diagram) is 499271-001.

It's the same part!  The long tube has GOT to be the REServe outlet.  The fact that it's labeled with an "R" clinches it (for me, anyway).

So, if you look at the 2002 BikeBandit diagram above, the hose labeled with a "5" should connect to the longer outlet tube.  Judging from your last post on page 2 of this thread, your hoses WERE hooked up correctly all along.  (Is that right, or did I get turned around somewhere?)

If the hoses WERE correct all this time, then there must be a problem internal to one petcock or the other (or both).  And since the ON outlet flows longer than the RES outlet on the tank-mounted petcock, my money is on that one.  "Clean that screen!"  

Hi  :lol:

1. My bike is hooked up just as bikebandit shows for the 2002.  

2. The R is next to the long tube which is the ON - it stopped flowing first.  The short tube is Reserve.  It flowed after the long one stopped.

3. I DON'T think it's a clogged screen that caused me to run out of gas.
Why? because:
a. When I turned on PRI, the bike would still not run.
b. I looked in the tank. There was almost no gas. It held 5.000 gallons.

The behavior as I saw it:  Riding with the petcock set 'ON', gas was allowed to pass through it as if it was on 'RES'.  This resulted in there not being any available when I switched to RES. The sucker was just plain 'out of gas'.

My guess is that maybe it leaks internally when the engine is running and there's vacuum applied?  

Either that or I can't tell the difference between, long, short, ON, RES and PRI because my brain has rotted away.

OS

One "last gasp" and then I'll give up ... for now.  

Quote from: oldsport1. My bike is hooked up just as bikebandit shows for the 2002.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this statement, because the BikeBandit diagram does not SHOW the hoses hooked up to the tank-mounted petcock.  And since the petcock is rotated 180 degrees in the diagram (to show the shutoff valve on the back side) you have to be wary about the depiction of the hose positions.  The surest method seems to be to go by:

1) The hose labels on the BikeBandit page (#5 = ON hose, #6 = RES hose)
2) The letters stamped onto the tank-mounted petcock (short tube = "O", long tube = "R")
3) The connections shown to the frame-mounted petcock on the other end of each hose.  (Hose #5 connects to the backward-pointing inlet on top, hose #6 to the downward-facing tube on the rear.)

Note: Hose #5 is labeled as the ON hose ... which means that I said things backwards in my last post.    It's hose #6 (the RES hose) that should be hooked to the longer brass tube from the tank-mounted petcock (labeled with an "R"), which should be in front of of the shorter tube when the petcock is mounted correctly.

As for why the shorter tube flowed fuel after the longer tube stopped ... that one still stumps me.  I'll have to try that on my '99 and make sure to switch back and forth until I get NO fuel out.  Perhaps the flow is different when the engine is not running compared to when it is...?

PS - One final wrench to throw into the works.  Maybe the hoses ARE labeled incorrectly on the BikeBandit diagram.    Why would the shorter hose cost more than the longer hose with an extra bend in it?

:x  Let the Brain Rot begin!!  :x

Last Desperate Plea from the Cliffs of Insanity ("Incontheevable!"):  Can someone with an unaltered 2002 PLEASE trace their hoses and tell us how they're hooked up?

By looking at the diagram in the clymer's manual I also had my on hose on the shorter one, and my res hose on the longer one.
My tank did not have much gas in it at the time being I am doing a rebuild, I put the peetcock on reserve and could not get it to start. so I switched them and that did the trick, I think there are several different parts made, but the same part number is used for replacement

Quote from: EvilScoobyBy looking at the diagram in the clymer's manual I also had my on hose on the shorter one, and my res hose on the longer one.
My tank did not have much gas in it at the time being I am doing a rebuild, I put the peetcock on reserve and could not get it to start. so I switched them and that did the trick, I think there are several different parts made, but the same part number is used for replacement

So you are supporting my claim that the long tube (marked R) is the ON and the 'short' tube is Res?  Can I rest my case?

See Kerry, I'm not the only one that's of this opinion who came to it through practicle experience. I know it would be nice if the R marking corresponded to the Reserve tube etc. but at least in these 2 situations, it doesn't seem to.  (Unless EvilSCooby is Succumbing to  :x  evil brain rot  :x too?)

I think it's time for you to get a piece of hose and a gas can and let the testing begin.  You'll feel better once you've proven it to yourself one way or another.  Sort of restores faith in the order of the universe or something close to that?

For now, I'm sticking with the Long for ON and Short for RES

:lol:

Sigh.

Well, don't get me wrong - empirical evidence beats theory (and especially documentation) every time!

It's like you hinted at: I just like it when the real world actually matches what those who (are supposed to) know SAY....

I'll drain the tank tonight (if I get the chance) and let you know how it shakes out on the '99.

Quote from: KerryOne "last gasp" and then I'll give up ... for now.  

Quote from: oldsport1. My bike is hooked up just as bikebandit shows for the 2002.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this statement, because the BikeBandit diagram does not SHOW the hoses hooked up to the tank-mounted petcock.  And since the petcock is rotated 180 degrees in the diagram (to show the shutoff valve on the back side) you have to be wary about the depiction of the hose positions.  The surest method seems to be to go by:

1) The hose labels on the BikeBandit page (#5 = ON hose, #6 = RES hose)
2) The letters stamped onto the tank-mounted petcock (short tube = "O", long tube = "R")
3) The connections shown to the frame-mounted petcock on the other end of each hose.  (Hose #5 connects to the backward-pointing inlet on top, hose #6 to the downward-facing tube on the rear.)

Note: Hose #5 is labeled as the ON hose ... which means that I said things backwards in my last post.    It's hose #6 (the RES hose) that should be hooked to the longer brass tube from the tank-mounted petcock (labeled with an "R"), which should be in front of of the shorter tube when the petcock is mounted correctly.

As for why the shorter tube flowed fuel after the longer tube stopped ... that one still stumps me.  I'll have to try that on my '99 and make sure to switch back and forth until I get NO fuel out.  Perhaps the flow is different when the engine is not running compared to when it is...?

PS - One final wrench to throw into the works.  Maybe the hoses ARE labeled incorrectly on the BikeBandit diagram.    Why would the shorter hose cost more than the longer hose with an extra bend in it?

:x  Let the Brain Rot begin!!  :x

Last Desperate Plea from the Cliffs of Insanity ("Incontheevable!"):  Can someone with an unaltered 2002 PLEASE trace their hoses and tell us how they're hooked up?

Another way to verify it is to do what I did and drain the fuel from the tank?  Watch out,   :x  Brains R Rotting!!  :x

My claim that mine is like the the BikeBandit diagram  picture is because I had determined, by testing that you designed, that the short tube is RES and the LONG one ON.  

In the picture, if you draw a 'dotted line' (using your minds-eye), Hose #5 (ON) would seem to go to the longer tube (which is ON) and hose #6 would go to the short tube which is RES on my bike.

Do I agree that the drawing is 'goofy' ?  Yes.  If it were a drawing of a person, you would say the body is facing one way and the head another.     Do I agree that it seems odd that they would mark an R next to ON?  yes!  If you want odd, check out Particle Entanglement  Now that's weird!

( "Kerry------, this is your conscience speaking, get a piece of hose and a can and test it yourself".   )

Great, I just did my first shim job...  Thought I could keep which hose went were straigt in my head.  Got all my shims within spec, put the gas tank back on and I had to see this thread  

Now I'm not sure I got it right :x

I have a 90' and I was pretty damn sure the long tube marked with the R was going to my reserve...  Crap, I now have this feeling I'm going to be stuck without a reserve.

:dunno:

On the '90 it's definitely front to back, back to front.

Well, My bike is still apart with a few gallons in the tank. I will do the test this Saturday, My bike is a 95, I will post my findings that night

:x I am not that evil  

Quote from: oldsport( "Kerry------, this is your conscience speaking, get a piece of hose and a can and test it yourself".   )

I cheated.

Well, I didn't exactly cheat, but I did use a different testing method to positively identify the RES and ON outlet tubes on my fuel tank-mounted petcock.

After turning the slot in the under-tank shutoff valve to a horizontal (OFF) position, I detached the input hoses from the frame-mounted petcock and set up a 2-gas-can, simultaneous-drain arrangement.  Each can holds 1.25 gallons:


This closer view helps to show that the hose to the left-hand can is attached to the LONGER outlet (the one towards the fornt of the bike), and the hose to the right-hand can is attached to the SHORTER outlet.


At this point I turned the under-tank shutoff valve back ON, and let 'er rip!  Fuel flowed through both hoses, but the flow from the left hose was definitely stronger than from the right hose.  This is actually a good pre-indication that the left hose is the RES hose, since the RES outlet is lower in the tank than the ON outlet.  The weight of an additional inch (or so) of fuel would mean more pressure at the lower outlet.

Anyway, the right hose went "bubbly" and finally stopped flowing.  The left hose was still full of fuel for another 30-45 seconds.


In fact, the left-hand gas can filled up before the left hose stopped flowing.  I had to transfer the hose to the right-hand gas can (which was maybe 1/3 full) to finish draining the tank.  Here the left hose is finally going "bubbly".


VERDICT:  On my '99 GS500E, the LONGER outlet tube on the tank-mounted petcock (which is stamped "R") is definitely the RES outlet.  The shorter tube (stamped "O") is definitely the ON outlet.

Useful observation for future out-of-gas situations:
While trying to drain the tank, I found that tilting the tank forward and back worked at least as well as tilting it from side to side.

Since the tank was empty, I attempted to take a picture of the tank-mounted petcock from inside the tank.  As a bonus, I got a view of the overflow drain tube as well.  (This picture was taken from the right side of the bike.  It was one of those times that make me wish my flash was somehow mounted INSIDE the camera lens, rather than off to one side....)


EDIT: Changed links from sisna.com to bbburma.net