So I had some battery trouble a few weeks back.  Partially resolved now.  I ended up jumping it to get it back home. And then rode it a good hour or two ride. It then died again, and jumped it again.  This time checked and added distilled water and seems to be working alright now. It has lasted two days or so with no running and will start up, so I think its holding a charge again.

I was contemplating different emergency scenarios where I would not have had access to a car to jump me. What struck me as interesting was that I did not (I researched this) need to start the car to jump the bike, just connected the cables with everything off, and then the bike would start.

On the below, please tell me where I am wrong or could hurt myself!

This bike is a 12V battery right? Could I, in some configuration, use household batteries in order to jump my motorcycle battery? Granted I would have to connect them together and then have clamps and wires to the terminals, but it seems like some configuration would eventually provide enough juice to start the bike battery?

I am thinking in one of two fashions:  1. Some arrangement that is small enough that it could be carried with you for 1 or maybe 2 emergency jumps.

2. Some arrangement that you just know about, so incase of an emergency you know that would work if you have no other options.

Example 1: Would a 12V lantern battery work?
Example 2: A AA battery has 1.5V each, so I guess 8 in parallel gives you 12V right? Could some sort of contraption be built that holds 8 batteries and could give you a jump provided you have 8 AA batteries?

Anyone know of any other battery tricks?

P.S. I know that just buying a new good battery is the solution to my specific problem, I am thinking beyond just my problem and for the future in general about battery problems!

Quote from: stokes776 on December 05, 2012, 11:16:28 AM
This bike is a 12V battery right? Could I, in some configuration, use household batteries in order to jump my motorcycle battery? Granted I would have to connect them together and then have clamps and wires to the terminals, but it seems like some configuration would eventually provide enough juice to start the bike battery?

I am thinking in one of two fashions:  1. Some arrangement that is small enough that it could be carried with you for 1 or maybe 2 emergency jumps.

2. Some arrangement that you just know about, so incase of an emergency you know that would work if you have no other options.

Example 1: Would a 12V lantern battery work?
Example 2: A AA battery has 1.5V each, so I guess 8 in parallel gives you 12V right? Could some sort of contraption be built that holds 8 batteries and could give you a jump provided you have 8 AA batteries?

Anyone know of any other battery tricks?

P.S. I know that just buying a new good battery is the solution to my specific problem, I am thinking beyond just my problem and for the future in general about battery problems!

Yes, it is a 12V battery.  I think where you may be mistaken is the ampere hour, or steady current flow.   

A Yuasa YB10L-B2 is rated at 12 Volts, 11 Ampere-Hours:  http://www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.php?bID=B39&vID=3994
A 1.5 Volt "AA" size battery is 1.5 volt, and 1800-2600 Milli-Ampere Hours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA_battery

Although the volts are there, the current flow rate is not.  Squirt gun vs. a fire hose.  Water is there, but the flow rate is vastly different.  http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1298

Out of curiosity I once put a clip-on on the cable and measured the current draw when starting. It was difficult to get an accurate reading because of the initial surge and the load fluctuations but I found you need about 60A hot and 80A cold to spin that starter motor fast enough!!.......So if you are going to try it with AAs..........make sure you buy a multipack! 

For the love of god who needs to jump a GS500?

Push start it!
Run along side it and get it moving in neutral jump on pull the clutch and drop it into first and pop the clutch out. Bam your running, did this daily for a long time while my bike was on a dead battery.

i had exactly the same problem with mine, i put a new battery on and it didnt help, and it turned out my rectifier had burnt out, might be worth a look man

Quote from: crzydood17 on December 05, 2012, 02:22:30 PM
For the love of god who needs to jump a GS500?

Push start it!
Run along side it and get it moving in neutral jump on pull the clutch and drop it into neutral and pop the clutch out. Bam your running, did this daily for a long time while my bike was on a dead battery.

Do you mean drop it into first?

ahh yeah, first lol. edit time

Agree with the push. I think second works a little better for starting but you definitely need the speed. And make sure you're on the bike,  not still running beside it, when you pop the clutch. Long story.

Quote from: Huff1371 on December 05, 2012, 08:46:30 PM
Agree with the push. I think second works a little better for starting but you definitely need the speed. And make sure you're on the bike,  not still running beside it, when you pop the clutch. Long story.

I think we get the picture.

depends on your weight really and the stickiness of your back tire. I am heavy enough and my tire is sticky enough that 1st turns me over nice and easy, just make sure you have the choke on for easy starting.

2nd works really well...

cold bike = choke and be ready to GO (helmet, etc)
hot bike = no choke just ride

if it's your first time to do it, get someone with a video camera nearby

To have the voltage added together you would have to put the batteries in series, not parallel. Parallel would increase your current capacity but the voltage would be the same. So...

If you connect 8 AAA, AA, C or D -cell batteries in series (positive to negative) you would have a 12volt battery with the same current capacity as a single one of the cells.

If you connect the same 8 batteries in parallel (tie all positives together and tie the negatives together) you would have a 1.5volt battery with the current capacity being added together. In other words, a stronger 1.5volt battery.

Anyway it goes, I don't think most people have any batteries in their homes that would be suitable to do this with because the 1.5volt alkaline or NiMH or NiCd batteries laying around the house have such a low current capacity that you would need a boat load of them to create something that could turn that motor. Unless you have a battery backup submersible pump in your basement! That's just a marine grade 12volt battery like you would put in a boat.

If you are really that worried about it, buy one of those emergency jump-starters they sell for cars and keep it in a piece of luggage whenever you are on the bike. Or just learn to push start the bike....and get a new battery!

I have an AA nicad here in front of me, spec is 1.2 v 300mA....so lets do the maths and a feasibilty study 

Forget about discharge rates, voltage drop, internal resistance and all that bollocks.......

You would need to series up 10 of these cells to give 12v (10 x 1.2v) and this arrangement would give 3A (10 X 300mA)

You need about 80A to start the bike so 3 into 80 is 26.6 so round it up and you would need 27 sets of 10 cells in parallel to give enough voltage and current.

Each cell weighs 25g so 25 x 270 = 6.750kg total or just under 15lb

Each cell measures about 50.25x 14.1 mm so Volume of each cell is 7.7cm/3 as a cylinder or as rectangle to allow for space when stacking 9.9...call it 10cm/3 or 2700cm/3

Stacking them upright in 3 layers of 90 (3x9x10)  would need a box with internal dims of about 141mm wide 127mm deep and 151mm.

So to summarise....

270 cells connected in sets of 10 in series then 27 of these sets connected in parallel
Total weight 6.75kg
Total volume 2700 cm/3
Suitable area 14.5cm x 13cm x 15.5cm

Plus all the associated wiring and connections.

Costs??.......Best price I can find here in the UK for a pack of 32 duracells is 13.00, I would need 9 packs (leaving a few cells spare) .....Total 117 quid and at todays exchange rate thats a little over 187 dollars.

For that amount of money I could buy a medium quality YB10LB2, a trickle charger........ and cover the electricity bill for a year.

A good idea in theory but I dont think the Dragons...(or is it the Sharks in the US) will be queing up to invest 

Quote from: sledge on December 06, 2012, 01:17:33 PM
I have an AA nicad here in front of me, spec is 1.2 v 300mA....so lets do the maths and a feasibilty study 

Forget about discharge rates, voltage drop, internal resistance and all that bollocks.......

You would need to series up 10 of these cells to give 12v (10 x 1.2v) and this arrangement would give 3A (10 X 300mA)

You need about 80A to start the bike so 3 into 80 is 26.6 so round it up and you would need 27 sets of 10 cells in parallel to give enough voltage and current.

Each cell weighs 25g so 25 x 270 = 6.750kg total or just under 15lb

Each cell measures about 50.25x 14.1 mm so Volume of each cell is 7.7cm/3 as a cylinder or as rectangle to allow for space when stacking 9.9...call it 10cm/3 or 2700cm/3

Stacking them upright in 3 layers of 90 (3x9x10)  would need a box with internal dims of about 141mm wide 127mm deep and 151mm.

So to summarise....

270 cells connected in sets of 10 in series then 27 of these sets connected in parallel
Total weight 6.75kg
Total volume 2700 cm/3
Suitable area 14.5cm x 13cm x 15.5cm

Plus all the associated wiring and connections.

Costs??.......Best price I can find here in the UK for a pack of 32 duracells is 13.00, I would need 9 packs (leaving a few cells spare) .....Total 117 quid and at todays exchange rate thats a little over 187 dollars.

For that amount of money I could buy a medium quality YB10LB2, a trickle charger........ and cover the electricity bill for a year.

A good idea in theory but I dont think the Dragons...(or is it the Sharks in the US) will be queing up to invest 

Actually, 10 of those AA NiCds in series will give 12V with a capacity of 300mAh. Even then, the 300mAh isn't directly a rating of how much current it can put out instantaneously. Your calculations assume a 1C discharge rate (although with the A error, your multiplication by 10 works out to calculate for a 10C draw, which is fairly valid)

For a short period, a good NiCd can put out 20C,  and with D cells up in the 5Ah range, it could put out up to 100A for a short period. I would imagine that the voltage droop wouldn't be too much worse than a lead acid.

I think with the headlight starting bypass, a GS could start with something as little as a 10 cell NiCd/Ni-mh pack made of C or sub-C  cells. The draw would only be for a few seconds.

Not knowing the details of the pack, I would wager that this could start a bike: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-Rechargeable-Battery-Pack-For-12V-3800mAh-Ni-MH-RC-/271108875663?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item3f1f59258f

I still probably would never do it and agree with sledge's conclustion. Just push start. Push starting an already warm bike is even easier.

good grief those A123 cells are awesome, take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcvmvrmTMMk

The comments say that it's a 2.5Ah pack, you could probably get a way tinier pack and jump a GS!

Four of these 1.1Ah cells in parallel should do, says it can put out 65A for 10s. Only 8 bucks a piece too. Might actually be cool to have that in the bike at all times, isolated with a diode and charged with the stock system, then when your main battery died, you could plug it in and jump from that.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_showCart.asp?idproduct=6563&lasturl=%2Fhobbyking%2Fstore%2F404%2Easp%3F404%3Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ehobbyking%2Ecom%3A80%2Fhobbyking%2Fstore%2F__6563__GENUINE_A123_Systems_18650_1100mAh_LiFePo4_Cell_w_tabs_GENUINE_%2Ehtml%3Fgclid%3DCLOq8OPnhrQCFYs7MgodZh4AZg
Ok, sorry, got side tracked.

Quote from: EdChen on December 06, 2012, 03:23:05 PM
good grief those A123 cells are awesome, take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcvmvrmTMMk

The comments say that it's a 2.5Ah pack, you could probably get a way tinier pack and jump a GS!

Four of these 1.1Ah cells in parallel should do, says it can put out 65A for 10s. Only 8 bucks a piece too. Might actually be cool to have that in the bike at all times, isolated with a diode and charged with the stock system, then when your main battery died, you could plug it in and jump from that.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_showCart.asp?idproduct=6563&lasturl=%2Fhobbyking%2Fstore%2F404%2Easp%3F404%3Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ehobbyking%2Ecom%3A80%2Fhobbyking%2Fstore%2F__6563__GENUINE_A123_Systems_18650_1100mAh_LiFePo4_Cell_w_tabs_GENUINE_%2Ehtml%3Fgclid%3DCLOq8OPnhrQCFYs7MgodZh4AZg
Ok, sorry, got side tracked.

Interesting youtube comments - apparently these batteries are LiFePO4 ?    Similar chemistry to the Shorai motorcycle battery ...

Be careful with the A123 batteries... the individual cells are prone to failure when under or over charged, so while a bike charging system should (in theory) be nice to a 13.2V battery pack, if one particular cell in that pack is being over or under charged, it will fail in time, and with these batteries they can actually explode.

As I understand it, Shorai have invested a lot of money ensuring the individual cells are catered for and so are safe to use.

Some of the cheapo alternatives don't do this, and a standard charging system on a bike will likely have issues sooner or later.

I did some research into a battery management system for these in place of a standard battery, but it was going to be far too complicated for my little brain, so if you're going to do it, just fork out for a Shorai unless you really know your electronics well...

Quote from: sledge on December 05, 2012, 12:03:03 PM
Out of curiosity I once put a clip-on on the cable and measured the current draw when starting. It was difficult to get an accurate reading because of the initial surge and the load fluctuations but I found you need about 60A hot and 80A cold to spin that starter motor fast enough!!.......So if you are going to try it with AAs..........make sure you buy a multipack! 

lol... i'm thinking more like a BACKPACK full!! .. something like .. oh i dont know ... the SNOW stormtroopers backpacks ... loaded with aa's .. it'd only weigh .. what..... 100lbs or so!