I swapped a 2004 engine into my 2001 bike frame. I broke the last engine bcz it ran dry of oil and the piston seized. It makes a loud clicking noise.
Everything has been wired etc.
However, when the bike starts, it makes the same loud clicking noise as if the cylinder is hitting something. The bike needs to have the clutch engaged in neutral to start the bike. Also, when the bike is in gear and the clutch is engaged, the bike lurches forward, as if the clutch is not engaged.
Are the clutch on 2001 and 2004 engines different and incompatible?
What should I be looking into? Did I get a bad engine?

Quote from: libindaniel2000 on April 05, 2013, 09:58:49 AM
Also, when the bike is in gear and the clutch is engaged, the bike lurches forward, as if the clutch is not engaged.

That's normal, the plates are sticking together when cold

Quote from: skunkteeth on April 05, 2013, 10:02:42 AM

Quote from: libindaniel2000 on April 05, 2013, 09:58:49 AM
Also, when the bike is in gear and the clutch is engaged, the bike lurches forward, as if the clutch is not engaged.

That's normal, the plates are sticking together when cold

Correct. Perfectly normal with gummed up clutch plates. Always start in neutral unless the bike is warm. Still best to start in neutral. Less stress on the starter.

There is nothing to separate the plates other than the universe. The clutch pulls them together - nothing separates them. Pulling in the clutch only releases the top plate of the clutch. The 6 plates and spacers are up to themselves to separate. They don't do that well when cold or gummed up. When hot, the gummy stuff is not so sticky so they separate and you don't lurch forward.

When cold, going into 1st gear the first time often has a small lurch. Same reason.

I reduced the lurching on Phenix by removing the clutch plates and cleaning them with kerosene, dipping in fresh oil and putting back.

Short of doing that, a couple oil changes with good oil will help reduce it. Used engines should have oil changed. And then again after a few hundred miles. You don't know how long oil has been in there. Even if "I just changed oil" you don;t know how long old oil was in there, gumming up everything. First oil change will be to start washing out the insides. Second oil change in a few hundred miles would be the one you leave in until the next scheduled oil change.

But the bike is making such a loud metal clinking noise that I dont think is normal. Is that coming from the clutch not being adjusted properly? Also, I had to reqire the timing rotor etc. Could that be the source of this noise problem?

What's the story of the other engine?

Why did you have to buy a timing rotor? Didn't you use the timing rotor and pickup from your old motor?

The other engine was bought off ebay. The seller said that it was from a salvaged bike. The engine worked properly. He had videos of it working fine as well. The clutch was tested and did not give any trouble.
The timing rotor was not purchased. It was just replaced from the old bike, but what I am wondering is if that is the trouble. I did not change the plate. I only changed the wire and the magnets form the old one and placed them on the new plate. Is that the problem?

I would not have removed the pickups from the plate.
Could you have reversed them?

I would use the original plate. While I think the plates are the same, I haven't looked that closely as I never take off the pickups. I just move the whole assembly.

One pickup does have longer wires so I suppose you can't switch them, but not sure if position is the same. 2004 bike has one pickup and your 2001 needs 2 pickups. You have to compare to be sure.

also insure the timing rotor is on right. There is the little pin that indexes it to be correct.

So, if I (tried to) ran the bike with the old magnets and the new plate, there is a fair chance that I might have screwed up the whole engine?
I started the engine, but it was making that loud noise, so I switched it back off.
So, I need to change the plate on the new engine to the old one, right?
Does it make sense to have the timing pickup and plate from the old engine and put it on the new one. Doesn't each engine have to be have its own timing plate. Can they be swapped?

They can be swapped. There is nothing that makes it engine specific.

I just am not sure of the pickup placement between the single and double pickups.
The plate is not available as a separate part. It comes with the pickups and stuff as a single assembly.

I'd feel better if the pickups were on the plate that came on. That would eliminate it as one possible problem.

Did you do valve adjustments or anything that would affect the timing from a mechanical point?

Maybe someone else has ideas on this or opinions.

No valves were adjusted or anything.
I guess I will have to pull the old plate and rotor out and put it on the new engine. Then, I will put the magnets back on. Are the positions/placement of the magnets crucial?
One of the screws holding the old plate is stripped, that's why I did not bother with the old plate. I guess, I will have to figure out a way to get that stripped screw out and then swap the old plate.

I presume I don't have to do the procedure shown here, right? http://beergarage.com/GSTiming.aspx
Also, since I did not move the old plate in, I am guessing, the angles are messed up, and not as shown in http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=61873.0
So, there is a good chance that the engine might have gone bad because I heard that metal knocking noise (the same noise as that when the engine was running dry of oil and the pistons seized) 

Uh, did you check timing of the cams on that engine?
If not, you have no idea how they are set. Someone could have removed them and they're in wrong or out of time.
Also check valves.
I guess those are 2 things you should do unless you know 100% that the motor was running good before the swap and no one farkled with it.
Anyway, it is always a good idea to check valves and timing when you put a motor in.

I did compare the plates. They are the same. You're OK swapping the pickups as long as you don't get them reversed.

Did you ever hear that engine run? Do you know if the engine was good? Checking the valves and timing would be a good idea. You might find that, unfortunately, the engine might not have been good. if the head is bad, you should be able to use the head from your other engine if that was good.


[attachment deleted by admin]

Thanks for that picture. That helps. I also talked to the seller and he said the timing was not touched and the engine worked fine. He said the only thing that will need to be done to make this work, is on the ignition.
I think I might have swapped the TDC and BDC magnets, that is why it made that noise. So, I will replace those magnet's position and see if the bike starts.
Any other suggestions?

Try putting the bike on the centerstand and in 6th gear (WITH THE ENGINE OFF!) and rotate the rear wheel by hand and see if you can determine the point in the stroke cycle where the noise is heard. Could help isolate the source.

Since you said it's the same noise as your old busted engine, also try rotating in neutral just to be sure it's not something unrelated to the engine.

Ditto adidasguy in checking the timing and the valves as a reliable way of determining their correctness on a used engine.

There was no noise when I put in the 6th gear. I put the old rotor back and lined it up as well.
I recharged the battery as well. I tried to start it and it didn't start. It just kept trying to start..
In the meantime, the plug below the oil filter pan came out and the oil started dripping. 
Anyone knows what is going on?


[attachment deleted by admin]

What happened to the oil cooler? 
Seems to be missing! 

Oh, yea, and it is spilling oil from its connections. 

There was no oil cooler with the engine..and 01 didn't have one..

Won't I have to drill holes in the frame for this to work?

The engine needs one.
The oil pan is designed for the oil cooler. Without it, I'm not sure oil gets to the engine since it is routed through the cooler.

As a minimum, you need to connect those to ports together so oil flows.

My bike Phenix is a 1993 frame with the oil cooler added because I used a 2006 engine. They are easy to mount. a bracket and a couple bolts.

I wouldn't play with the engine anymore until the oil situation is fixed. You may have been running the engine with no lubrication - due to no oil cooler -- which means oil was not getting where it needed to go.