Hi All,

I'm fairly new to riding and its really just a recreational activity for me so please forgive my ignorance if this is a dumb question.  I searched the forum and couldn't really find anything that addressed my issue but than again maybe I just missed it.  So here is my situation:

I was riding about a week ago and heard a strange noise coming from my motor, sounded mechanical of some sort as it had a certain rhythm to it.  I thought it might have been due to low gas levels so I pulled off the freeway and headed to a gas station, was able to get there and fill up and started on my way again.  No more than half a mile from the gas station the motor shut off and I had to get the bike towed home.  After doing some research on the issue I figured it might be low oil levels so I checked the dip stick and sure enough there wasn't much in there.  So I got 3 quarts of 10W40 synthetic blend and put them in.  I have tried to start it since and it just won't start.  I can hear the a slight click as though the starter is trying to work but nothing happens, the headlight comes on very bright so I know its not a dead battery.  I suspect that its because the engine oil was so low that things stopped working and now that I have replaced the oil but it won't start the pressue is still not adequate in the motor.  Also when I turn the key the red oil light comes on right away and it started flickering and came on fully just before the motor stopped working.  So my question is this - is there a way to increase the oil pressue in the motor or add oil directly to the motor so that it can be properly lubricate and will start again?  Also how do I know if I added enough oil in the oil pan?  The dip stick shows a fair amount now but there certainly seems to be alot more room in the pan so maybe it could/should hold more?

If I have failed to include some pertinent info please let me know and I'll do my best to respond with what ever is helpful in order to get my bike running again.

Thanks for your input.

Well, as far as the light goes, it will always be on unless the motor is running because there really is no pressure in the case until it fires up.

You said that it clicks when you try to start it up. Does the exhaust sound like it's pumping at all? Or is it just a starter click?

Also, what kind of noise was it that you heard? If it was kind of a metal clacking, it could be tight valve clearances, which would cause rough starts.

As far as the noise that I heard before the engine died it didn't sound like metal clacking to me.  It was more like hard pieces of plastic hitting against each other.  It was for sure related to the engine though because it got faster and louder when as the engine reved up.

The sound I hear when trying to start the bike is more of a clunk than a click.  I have had a low battery before and heard the clicking that it makes when trying to start but just doesn't have enough power, this is not at all close to that.  It just makes the sound once each time I hit the starter button even if I hold it down.  I took a short video and have embedded it here, let me know your thoughts.

Umm all of the 3 quarts went in? ... The bike only holds 2600mL of oil plus a couple hundred more mLs if you change out the filter too.  If the engine wasn't completely empty of oil and you dumped all 3 quarts in, then it's too full.

To check the oil level, set the bike upright or on center stand (ideally the bike would be warmed up but you cant with a bike that wont start). Unscrew the dipstick and wipe it off with a clean cloth. Re insert the dipstick and rest it on the engine without screwing it in. Pull  the dipstick back out and read the level. The oil should be in the crosshatched section of the dipstick.  If it is higher than that, you will need to drain the oil and refill to the proper level, checking as you go. You can reuse the oil if you drain it into a clean container.

- Bboy

if no compression/hydro lock from too much oil .. the way that clunk sounds to me... and the amount the lights/dash dim ... starter solenoid or starter motor? ..

i know the lights do dim while starting .. thats normal... but thats a LOT of dim .. least compared to my bike!

and to my amateur ear... it sounds like a solenoid/starter clunk 

I don't mean to state the obvious but i don't think the neutral light was on. 

true  ... but from my addled memory... if side stand up and bike in gear .. press starter .. nothing... no clunk .. no dimming... just total nothing...

even if sidestand bypassed ... wouldnt it lurch ... even a little?

I agree with the premise. Maybe if the battery was weak there would not be enough grunt to move the bike. It just looks suspicious to me with no green light. Maybe the bulb is just kaput. It sounds like a lockup, as if the starter system is OK but the crankshaft does not want to turn. As usual it is difficult to determine faults from a short vodeo clip, particularly sounds as they often don't come through clearly.
Give us more info Labamba32. What is the status of the neutral light?

Macka

Sounds like when my battery first started to go out on me... First several tries, I got that clunky single click sound just like that, as if there wasn't enough power to turn the engine over... Then after a bit of trying, I got the infamous rapid clicking and knew right away what the issue was.

But good observation on the neutral light, prmas.  We need to know if it was actually in neutral when starting there or if the bulb is burnt out, or something else going on with that.  You could also do a quick voltage check on the battery too... that should be at a minimum of 12.6V to start a healthy bike.

Even though the original description didn't sound promising, you want to rule out the simples before you think catastrophic... So to recap the things mentioned so far,  check oil level, check neutral light issue, check voltage.  You'll want to ensure the oil level is good before starting the bike, regardless... Too much oil can cause big problems too.



- Bboy

It is easy to see if the engine has seized up. Remove the timing cover on the right (round thingie with 3 bolts).
Use a 19mm wrench and see if you can turn the engine. Turn CLOCKWISE only. It will go hard - easy - hard - easy as you are turning the engine and that causes the valves to get pushed down (the hard part) and then gets easy as the valves are released.

and always check voltage.

Try to be in neutral. Stuck clutch plates can make the engine seem stuck. You are in neutral if you can push the bike without pulling in the clutch.

Neutral and side stand switches have connectors under the seat. Use your meter to check if they are working. If you ground the neutral switch connection, the neutral light will come on.

You can see if the side stand relay is working. Be on center stand. If NOT in neutral, swing the side stand up and down. At the half way point you can hear a tiny relay clicking. That relay is next to the voltage regulator. If you are in neutral, you won't hear it click as it is already on.

Quote from: BockinBboy on June 19, 2013, 05:52:17 AM

But good observation on the neutral light, prmas.  We need to know if it was actually in neutral when starting there or if the bulb is burnt out, or something else going on with that. 

Ok so I checked and the bike wasn't in neutral (I was holding in the clutch with the side stand up (that's how I normally start the bike), however I did put it in neutral now and tried to start it again and the following video was the result. As you can see its in neutral cuz the light came on (I also tested it by rolling the bike freely with out having to pull the clutch lever in).  So its the same issue. 



THe sound you hear at 10 seconds of the vid is the side stand going up.

I'm going to a local auto parts store to get a voltage tester but I dont think its the battery, as I've gone through a few one this bike andit wasn't really similar to these symptoms.  Also going to get an oil pan and drain the oil and put 2 quarts (about 1900 ml) back in.  Finally if is still not working I'll check into this option "It is easy to see if the engine has seized up. Remove the timing cover on the right (round thingie with 3 bolts).  Use a 19mm wrench and see if you can turn the engine. Turn CLOCKWISE only. It will go hard - easy - hard - easy as you are turning the engine and that causes the valves to get pushed down (the hard part) and then gets easy as the valves are released."  that adidasguy suggested. 

In the meantime if you have any other suggestions please let me know.

Ok a few updates:

1) I tried this process:

Quote from: adidasguy on June 19, 2013, 09:31:17 AM
It is easy to see if the engine has seized up. Remove the timing cover on the right (round thingie with 3 bolts).
Use a 19mm wrench and see if you can turn the engine. Turn CLOCKWISE only. It will go hard - easy - hard - easy as you are turning the engine and that causes the valves to get pushed down (the hard part) and then gets easy as the valves are released.

and i couldn't get the thing to turn at all.  I was pushing down with my full body weight and it wouldn't budge.  So I'm thinking this is bad news?

2) I did the following process that BockinBboy suggested :

"To check the oil level, set the bike upright or on center stand (ideally the bike would be warmed up but you cant with a bike that wont start). Unscrew the dipstick and wipe it off with a clean cloth. Re insert the dipstick and rest it on the engine without screwing it in. Pull  the dipstick back out and read the level. The oil should be in the crosshatched section of the dipstick."

I've attached a picture of the level but it clearly wasn't close to the F on the top of the cross hatched section, so I don't think too much oil is the issue, in fact mabe its not enough cuz its barley into the L side of the cross hatched section.  Thoughts?

[attachment deleted by admin]

If you can't turn it from the right side then it would say with near certainty that its seized. Most likely from lack of oil. Most cost effective is probably a used engine swap. Unfortunately not a simple task and a fair amount of $$. Maybe there is a forum member close by that could help you get sorted out.

Very very rarely does a "seized while running due to low oil motor" stay seized when its turned off and it cools down.
Cool.
Buddha.

"10W40 synthetic blend"

this is irrelevant now possibly, but was it motorcycle oil or car oil you added? I ask just to be sure it was bike oil.

I say pull the plugs and take a look with a flashlight from the top.