Hi all,

Just picked up my GS500 not long ago but am finding that after a couple of days of no ride, it just won't start. Today I filmed trying to start it, not sure if sound is normal or not,

http://youtu.be/Kr8U2NncEZI

Previous owner said they installed a new battery. I checked battery fluid level today and some sections do seem lower than the other, but I can't figure out what to put in it to top it up as the battery just says fill with acid :S





Worst case I experienced but riding the bike from QLD > NSW

https://maps.google.com.au/maps?saddr=Ipswich+QLD&daddr=Singleton+NSW&hl=en&ll=-31.132901,151.803589&spn=3.897565,8.453979&sll=-32.830735,147.451465&sspn=15.281926,33.815918&geocode=FXOkWv4dyOgaCSkXyc4jy7WWazEQjN7zWqMCBQ%3BFc8kD_4dlMACCSkf6db7K7AMazEAIUSQtAkGBQ&oq=sin&mra=ls&t=m&z=8

All went fine, bike started ok after filling with fuel/rest break. But when I got to Singleton, turned bike off for 5min, tried starting and same issue as video :\. I put it on charge for a couple hours (pulse/trickle charger) & when light said battery was charged, bike fired up/idled no problems,.

So I'm thinking maybe something with battery with low levels of fluid, or, charging system. I don't have a multimeter to start testing (if anyone can recommend a good valued multimeter, not high end $$$ but not a el-cheapo brand either, would be great. Wouldn't mind learning more about electronics).

Feedback greatly appreciated,

Regards,

Video is private.

Regarding the battery, fill with distilled water and put it on a trickle charger.

Thanks for the reply

Video should be viewable now + pics loading

I'll head out and pickup some distilled water & try that.

Any additional feedback would be great

Regards,

flat battery ... it may recover with a good charge ... be CAREFUL adding water .. i use a syringe .. and with the battery OUT of the bike so i can see the levels properly!! .. 

oh and unless you had a cable tie or something holding your clutch in... the clutch safety switch has been bypassed!

Quote from: Janx101 on July 11, 2013, 12:02:16 AM
flat battery ... it may recover with a good charge ... be CAREFUL adding water .. i use a syringe .. and with the battery OUT of the bike so i can see the levels properly!! .. 

I keep having to charge it up  , unless motorcycle batteries go flat with less than a week without being ridden, it seems either the battery is losing charge quickly or not being charge properly 

Quote from: Janx101 on July 11, 2013, 12:02:16 AMoh and unless you had a cable tie or something holding your clutch in... the clutch safety switch has been bypassed!

What does that mean & how can you tell ? My brother did come off shortly after getting the bike & the clutch lever broke off, mechanic installed a new one. There was very little damage though, mostly cosmetic as the bike landed on him mainly.

Another thing I recall during the big ride (linked in 1st post) was that when high beam was on, the little light indicator would flicker/ become dim for periods of time. It didn't look as though the headlight itself was becoming dim though, so maybe connection problem or issue with the actual LED for high beam ? It was lightly raining during the trip so maybe water got onto the electricals somewhere ?


Thanks again guys,

Regards,

the clutch normally has to be held in or the bike wont start .. safety feature in case its in gear ... similar to the sidestand switch .. if the bike is in in neutral and the stand is down... no problem .. but you click it into gear with the stand down and the engine dies...

some riders do bypass the clutch switch .. some switches get broken... but unless you had the clutch held in with something when you started the bike in the vid... there is something wrong/altered in the clutch safety switch!

battery seems likes its dead....they should hold charge longer than that.. but it also depends on how much you ride it when you do ride it...  if you can afford it then get a Motobatt AGM type... or any of the reputable AGM batteries.... or Shorai brand.. which are very good!

wet cell batteries like yours (and mine currently) are susceptible to cold weather when they age a little... if you take that one to a battery place they may be nice and give you a honest report on its condition without trying to ram a new battery sale down your throat?? ...

the general consensus .. or at least popular choice around here... for aftermarket batteries seems to be the AGM .. Advanced Glass Matt ... the QLD boys here love the http://www.motobatt.com.au/

as for Multimeter ... Jaycar, d i c k Smith etc .. i got a good one from jaycar for $18 IIRC ... just try to avoid the 'real cheapo' ones with dodgy weak soldering on the leads... 

Quote from: Janx101 on July 11, 2013, 01:34:37 AM
the clutch normally has to be held in or the bike wont start .. safety feature in case its in gear ... similar to the sidestand switch .. if the bike is in in neutral and the stand is down... no problem .. but you click it into gear with the stand down and the engine dies...

some riders do bypass the clutch switch .. some switches get broken... but unless you had the clutch held in with something when you started the bike in the vid... there is something wrong/altered in the clutch safety switch!

battery seems likes its dead....they should hold charge longer than that.. but it also depends on how much you ride it when you do ride it...  if you can afford it then get a Motobatt AGM type... or any of the reputable AGM batteries.... or Shorai brand.. which are very good!

as for Multimeter ... Jaycar, d i c k Smith etc .. i got a good one from jaycar for $18 IIRC ... just try to avoid the 'real cheapo' ones with dodgy weak soldering on the leads... 

Thanks again Janx 

With the clutch, in the video the bike was in Neutral with side-stand down, I think I always start it that way. If I am in gear & drop the side stand, the engine cuts off too. Don't think I've tried starting the bike in gear before,  but as far as I know, previous owner(s) were non-modders & kept bike in original condition.

Topped up battery & sitting it on charge now, I have no doubt starting after this will be fine, but I'm guessing next few days will be the true test. If it happens again, I might ring around & see if any places will test for me (free). Have heard a few people recommend the Shorai brand, but quite pricey  , AGM doesn't look too bad, decent price, but hopefully I won't need a new one

I thought about getting one from Jaycar, but then seeing meters for $40ish thought maybe they would be better in some way...  think I might have to research a bit into them & figure out what I actually need a multimeter to do. 

Thanks again,

Regards,

Don't know heaps about meters overall ... But I got this one .. They are cheaper now too

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM1523&CATID=97&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=1060#1

It's fairly good (I think) for the basic stuff with a few extra functions ..

Originally I got a $8 one from bunnings ... The wires leading into the probe actually lasted 3 minutes before the wire busted off the solder..

Video .. Side stand obviously down yes... But you never touched the clutch to start it ... Just hit the starter button ... Which is why I noticed and thought about the switch up on the clutch not working

*update*
Took the battery out, topped up with distilled water & charged fully again. Installed it back into my bike & it fired up straight away (expected). I let it idle at 2-3k rpm (with choke on) for about 2min, then turned off choke & let it idle around 1-2k rpm for another 5min before turning off.
I did some other stuff around home for the next 20min before attempting to start it up again (was going to take for a ride) but encountered the same issue as in the video :\.

I re-charged again, & once again, bike started, so I took it around the block. Got home, turned it off then back on after a 1min, started fine. Will test again tomorrow & if any issues again, might call around & see if anyone will run a test on it :\.
I did notice however that when the bike started this 2nd time, whenever I accelerated, the headlight would get a little brighter, then dimmed after I let the throttle go (it did that a few times before I took for a ride).

My charger is this one too;
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Calibre-Battery-Charger-12V-4-Amp-3-Stage-Intelligent-Pulse.aspx?pid=276835#Cross

Tomorrow I might take a trip into town & grab a multimeter & start testing.

Thanks again . Any additional feedback is always welcome, happy to read suggestions/opinions from others.

Regards,

When my battery gets to this point, it's time to replace it.

One thing.  Since the battery seems to hold a charge temporarily, you might want to do a "leak down" test (proper term?) with that new multimeter.  The idea is to see whether there is some kind of constant drain on the battery even when the bike is turned off.

To do that I would:

• Charge the battery
• Make sure the bike is turned OFF
• Disconnect the + cable from the battery terminal
• Set your meter to the DC Amps range (10A first if you have it ... which sometimes requires you to plug one of the leads into a separate socket on the front of the meter)
• Touch one meter lead to the + battery terminal and the other lead to the end of the disconnected cable
• If you get no reading in the 10A range, switch to the "regular" DC Amps range (switching one lead to the regular socket if necessary) and try again

If you get a non-zero reading, then current is flowing from the battery even when the bike is off.  That will result in a drained battery, so you will need to pinpoint the culprit.  (Great multimeter practice!)

If you get NO reading, even in the milliamp range(s), it's time to "cut bait" and get a new battery.  I've gone through 3 or 4 "discount" batteries (like the one in your photos) over the past 12 years.  They're not the best, but if you're having budgetary problems they can get you going again without too much outlay in the short term.  Besides, if you're new at riding, a cheap battery might last longer than your bike.  (Take a motorcycle safety class if you can!)

+1 to what Kerry said!!! 

Hey guys,

Thanks heaps for the info

I charged up the battery the other day & rode it up the road & left it for a couple hours, came back & wouldn't start (same starting issue :\). Had to push halfway home before trying the clutch start method.. which I got started after a few tries (first time ever :p ).

Anyways, a few days later I went out and bought a multimeter (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM1548&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=1060#1)
I removed the battery from the bike & fully charged inside. Once battery was charged, I just did a quick DC volt check which read 12.75 (roughly).. but I noticed it dropping 0.01v every several seconds (thought it might have settled a bit after a little), but decided to check battery in the morning. I just checked it & now it's reading 12.22v.. is this too low ?

I'm thinking (if it's worth it) to recharge battery, install back in bike & run additional tests (that which Kerry suggested) + maybe check charging system incase that caused a problem ??

Thanks again guys, all & any feedback is appreciated


Regards,

Hey - nice meter!  I've owned ~10 meters in my time (still have almost all of them  ) and I think yours has a couple more functions than the best of mine.  That one should see you through a LOT of projects. 

While you're in the testing mode/mood, you might want to work through the excellent [SUZUKI GS500E CHARGING CIRCUIT TEST] document by GStwin member John Bates.  It helped me through a tough time, so I'm proud to host it on my website!  If you get lost (can't figure out where to take a measurement, etc) don't be afraid to ask for clarification.

apart from the charging circuit testing and solve ... if at some point you decide to be buying a new battery .. go for a 'AGM' type... Motobatt is very popular .. but there are supply issues in Aussie lately ..

i took the plunge and went looking for a Motobatt last week... couldnt find one locally .. and i was in the mood to have a battery NOW!! .. bought a http://www.ssbpowersport.com.au/Products/ProductList/tabid/241/mode/details/pid/517/Default.aspx

.... its good.... real good!! ... 235 CCA .. instead of the acid type battery 160CCA ..

fits in the battery box perfect .. hit the starter and its go time!! ... for about $90 its awesome!! .. 

Hey Guys,

thanks again for the feedback

QuoteHey - nice meter!  I've owned ~10 meters in my time (still have almost all of them  ) and I think yours has a couple more functions than the best of mine.  That one should see you through a LOT of projects. 

Thanks , I wasn't sure what I needed in a meter to do the things I want to (eventually) do.. so I just picked up this one (within my budget)

QuoteWhile you're in the testing mode/mood, you might want to work through the excellent [SUZUKI GS500E CHARGING CIRCUIT TEST] document by GStwin member John Bates.  It helped me through a tough time, so I'm proud to host it on my website!  If you get lost (can't figure out where to take a measurement, etc) don't be afraid to ask for clarification.

awesome, thanks .. ill have a good read of the shortly 

I also came across http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38480.msg431967#msg431967 which I'll have a read through too.

So far, I did a test with my new meter (video below). I haven't done a "leak down" test (wiring/alternator etc.. tests) yet as I'm not quite sure of what I need to set my meter as.. but when I figure that out, I'll tests the other things too

I did this sort tests today after charging the battery, I installed it back into the bike & started it up. Connected the meter to get different readings. Sorry for the small image.. not sure what happened there, but hopefully (set at 720p) it will still be clear enough.

http://youtu.be/0NaJvpY-oYk

Though I haven't tested anything else yet, is it safe to say the battery does look a little low (considering being "fully charged". After charging it, I read around 12.55v, which dropped to <12v after turning the key to "on" (headlight on)

Thanks again guys

Also, Re: battery type, I posted here: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=65160.msg778874#msg778874 .. thanks for the info there Janx .. I'll definitely look into that PowerSport battery


Regards,

Quote from: Widget on August 04, 2013, 12:37:46 AMI also came across http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38480.msg431967#msg431967 which I'll have a read through too.

Oh yeah ... I forgot all about having done that old write-up.   Still, near the end you have to switch over to the linked-to page (which is still "live" and is a good resource) or to something like the John Bates doc.

Quote from: Widget on August 04, 2013, 12:37:46 AMSo far, I did a test with my new meter (video below).

Hmmm ... nothing very suspicious going on there.  I assume you made the video with a freshly-charged battery?  If so, I suspect a "slow leak" somewhere.

Quote from: Widget on August 04, 2013, 12:37:46 AMI haven't done a "leak down" test (wiring/alternator etc.. tests) yet as I'm not quite sure of what I need to set my meter as.. but when I figure that out, I'll tests the other things too

The alternator-specific version of a "leak down" test is described in "Alternator" steps 10-14 on that old write-up of mine.

But it's possible that there are other "leaks" not associated with the alternator.  With ALL wires connected as usual, follow the steps in my July 12 post.  In those instructions, I have you set the meter to the DC 10A (amp) range first, just so you won't blow the meter if you have a large-ish current leak.  If you get no reading in that range, change to the DC 200 milliAmp range (which can only handle 1/50th of the current) and test again.

If you get a non-zero reading in either range, your next job is to figure out which circuit(s) on the bike is/are allowing current to flow when the bike is turned OFF.  That won't be the easiest thing to do (unless you get lucky in your first couple tries) but we can help you work your way through the wiring diagram a step at a time.

Quote from: Kerry on July 12, 2013, 10:15:54 AM
When my battery gets to this point, it's time to replace it.

One thing.  Since the battery seems to hold a charge temporarily, you might want to do a "leak down" test (proper term?) with that new multimeter.  The idea is to see whether there is some kind of constant drain on the battery even when the bike is turned off.

To do that I would:

• Charge the battery
• Make sure the bike is turned OFF
• Disconnect the + cable from the battery terminal
• Set your meter to the DC Amps range (10A first if you have it ... which sometimes requires you to plug one of the leads into a separate socket on the front of the meter)
• Touch one meter lead to the + battery terminal and the other lead to the end of the disconnected cable
• If you get no reading in the 10A range, switch to the "regular" DC Amps range (switching one lead to the regular socket if necessary) and try again

If you get a non-zero reading, then current is flowing from the battery even when the bike is off.  That will result in a drained battery, so you will need to pinpoint the culprit.  (Great multimeter practice!)

If you get NO reading, even in the milliamp range(s), it's time to "cut bait" and get a new battery.

Hi Kerry,

I did this today, but I used the - Neg terminal instead as I had watched ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1gijj03_0) & he mentioned it being somewhat 'safer'. Is that the same with motorcycles ? I know you said + Pos terminal but being a newb, I didn't want to touch & short out the meter. If you do suggest +Pos terminal testing, I can do it again.

I set my meter to the 10A DC range, with -Neg on battery terminal & +Pos on the cable, & was getting a 0.00 reading. I had to go out so I didn't test further.. but should I drop to the milliamps reading range & test again ?


Regards,

For the purposes of the test, it shouldn't matter which battery cable you disconnect.

Quote from: Widget on August 05, 2013, 09:39:16 PMI set my meter to the 10A DC range, with -Neg on battery terminal & +Pos on the cable, & was getting a 0.00 reading. I had to go out so I didn't test further.. but should I drop to the milliamps reading range & test again?

Yep! 

A 0.00 reading in the 10A range means that you're pulling less than .01 amps, but that could still be anywhere from 0 to 9.9x milliamps.  We'd like more assurance that it's absolutely 0.  If you get the same "0" reading in the 200 milliamp range you can be reasonably sure that no "leak" is present.

Of course, if there is no "leak" then there is no obvious reason for the battery to be losing its charge ... which is why you should consider replacing it. 

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the help . I tested the battery again via mA, and still got a 0.00 reading (though the battery was only at about 10.5v). I bought a new battery anyway, it's the

http://www.ssbpowersport.com.au/Products/ProductList/tabid/241/mode/details/pid/558/Default.aspx

for $90 delivered. Got to ride my bike to work today, was quite fun (even though I work 1km up the road :p )... the weather is getting nice too.. heading out of winter .

I'll still keep an eye out & maybe run another test soon to see how the battery is going with recharging (incase there is some other error :\ ) , but other than that.. thanks for everything

Regards,

~ Widget ~