So a badly done/amateur rivet link never fails or causes problems? ... 

Errr.......ANYTHING done badly/amateur on a bike can cause problems. I guess the answer is not to do it badly/amateur in the first place 

If you are asking my advice..........I suggest if someone does not feel competent enough to DIY they take it to someone who they think is   

Quote from: sledge on September 06, 2013, 01:05:48 AM

Quote from: adidasguy on September 06, 2013, 12:20:09 AM
It took  you a while to show up.. Been on vacation?
Everything can break. Google anything "broken ??" and you will get results....

    .....even a broken SLEDGE!

...and time for a cat.

Everything can break?

Sure it can but only if you have got something to break in the first place!

If you don't have clip fitted it CANT break and it CANT drop out......does that make sense, can you see the logic?.....probably not

Another case of `Its never happened to me so it wont happen to you`.......sadly, some people will actually believe it 

Are you trying to make the case that no rivet style chain has ever broken?  Because I find that hard to believe.  Yes, chains break.  Especially if they're not installed properly, it the tension is wrong, if they're worn out, or not maintained properly.  There's nothing inherently "less safe" about master style links. 

For crying out loud, I could care less what type of chain people buy, it's not like I feel strongly one way or the other, but enough with the doom and gloom.

The OP asked a question.

He wants input so he can make his choice.

Ultimately what he does is his business and like you I am not going to worry about it in the slightest.

However......everyone seems to be talking about the pros regarding clips and NOT the cons.

He needs the full picture including the highlighting of potential risks and he isn't getting it 

Yeah.....I know people who have ridden on clips for 20 years and not had one snap, I also know people who have smoked 30 a day for 20 years and not developed cancer 

Not really asking ... Just thinkin it over ..

But to the world at large ... Cos I can have a whack at it just like everyone else!!

And whether the job is done 'just right' or not ... on a rivet/screw/clip link... I've known the rivets and the clips to fail .. Not heard about a screw one yet.. But that's probably just not heard about it...

... Also feel that millions/multitudes of all sorts of links DON'T fail ... Whether because of good maintenance , good quality or just good luck ...

But because 1 fails here and there .. 'It must never be used lest ye burn on the eternal fires of hell' kinda thing? .. Mentioned by some across probably every bike forum on the web ...

... No one comes home and posts .. ' yeah! That clip link stayed on again today!! Totes amazed!! '

Until an incident every so often happens ... Everything stays quiet ... 

I used clip links on various dirt bikes for years and years ... So did everyone I can remember... Maybe some used rivets?  ... Standard check around before riding was ... Tyres, chain inspect and lube if needed, wheels/spokes and other various 'normal' eyeball it and compare items.. Most people also carried spare clips ... Because bashing over a track or through the bush and rocks and sticks etc is pretty rough ... When clips did come loose .. (Don't crow just yet) .. They got inspected and replaced ... Far as I remember it was mostly poor installation or direct impact on something LARGE ... This was common sense ... Dirt bike parts get a hell of a beating sometimes... Chains get removed and replaced a lot for cleaning ...

A few times another part of someones chain got whacked by something nasty and it would break .. Or at least separate on a factory pressed rivet! ... And sometimes there were enough minor tools available to completely remove that one and put a spare clip link in to make it home...

But that's dirt bikes ... Road bikes probably not in rough terrain ... Plus they have more power! ... But how does the power affect the spring clip? The main plate under that is still solid steel like a rivet one! ... More likely its lack of attention and maintenance that makes it fail ... Until the spring clip is loose enough to fall away the rest cannot come apart any more than a rivet one can...

People forget to check any type link on any type of chain and it fails.... Whose fault is that? ... The rider! ...I fail to see how even the most badass turbo whatever bikes' chain master link is anyone else's responsibility?! ..

Anything can break ... Chains get worn and kinked and master links break ... So pay attention to the chain and link...

I'm fairly certain if they were all that evil and unworthy then they would have died out as a product quite awhile ago! ...

Some people have direct stories that actually happened to them ... Once perhaps ... Most of the stories are from 'this guy who was dating this girl who was cousins with this dude who went to a track once and saw this chain break out of the corner of his eye' ...

... Let the games continue I guess ... 

I'v never had a problem with the clip type joining link....it's cheap,simple,effective.
Since i don't feel like purchasing a rivet kit the next chain replacement will have the screw type joining link.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003CKQCVQ/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3TGC5XRRCX4P2


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Its accepted in engineering design that chain joints that feature slip-fit side plates as opposed to press-fit can be up to 30% weaker than the parent chain...........go ahead and google it 

The reason being that there has to be a clearance in the holes between the pins and the side plate to enable the plate to be put into postion. This clearance allows movement and causes the pins to flex and separate from each other by a slight amount each time the chain is put under tension and over a period of time this unwanted movement can lead to failure of the pin joint or of the fixed side plate if the chain is overloaded.

Ever seen a cam chain with a clip link??? 

So...........lets say you go out and buy yourself a a nice new length of shiny 520 Renthal R1 that has a quoted tensile strength of 7644 lb/ft and fit a clip link instead of a master. Yeah its quick and easy but the trade off is that in effect you are lowering that figure by up to 30% and bringing the tensile strength down to as low as 5351 ib/ft.

.........and I am being told clip links are safe, reliable and don't offer any compromises...............................oh my ribs!!

You'd best get your sandwich board out then and walk the streets of the world to have them banned eh! ...

.. And what is the amount of lb/ft that the most powerful bike that might use the 520 R1 chain can place on the chain? ... 

You keep on saying you don't care what people use ... But you keep on about it? .. 

It's been a long time since I had a clip type link that had a slip fit side plate, 25-30 years ago they were quite a loose fit but all of the 9 replacement chains over the 14 years I've had the GSs have had a press fit of the sideplate on the pins.  Ten years ago I pressed them on with channel lock type pliers but on the last 2 or 3 I've had to press them on using a c-clamp.  Not sure whether that was due to tighter fits or due to deterioration of my once powerful hands.   

It would be easier for you to just give yourself the peace of mind and buy a 520 rivet link, than to cause yourself the mental anguish of sifting through all the "first hand" stories on this forum.

I trust the engineers who put them on bikes more than a bunch of dried up forum members, and if you were racing, tech would require the rivet anyways would they not?

Install the clip type while you wait for the rivet link, it's not exactly difficult to replace haha.

sorry for the honesty 

Must be a tighter fit Jack!! ... Surely your hands can still wrinkle steel plate!! 

Quote from: jboogie13 on September 06, 2013, 05:21:07 AM
than to cause yourself the mental anguish of sifting through all the "first hand" stories on this forum.

I trust the engineers who put them on bikes more than a bunch of dried up forum members

So your bike is totally OEM and completely un-modified? .. Them engineers being so cluey and all?

I don't dispute the engineers wisdom ... Just possibly the selective thinking ... If you have changed to a different oil or tyres or brakes or suspension or battery or lights or exhaust .. Etc etc 

Quote from: Janx101 on September 06, 2013, 04:52:36 AM
You'd best get your sandwich board out then and walk the streets of the world to have them banned eh! ...

.. And what is the amount of lb/ft that the most powerful bike that might use the 520 R1 chain can place on the chain? ... 

You keep on saying you don't care what people use ... But you keep on about it? .. 

I don't know the answer to your question, and I am not clever enough to work it out. What is a factor though is the margins the designers build in. If they overate the chain capacity and specify say 10% more tensile strength than is actually needed, then the owner puts a clip link in and de-rates it by 30% the chain will be now be 20% below what is needed at max that will be a problem. Perhaps this is why Suzuki themselves say in the handbook ALAWYS use an endless chain ...... is anyone here qualified to say otherwise??

As for not caring about how people join chains I don't, anyone with real experience knows the risks. I had one break years ago, it caused me a great deal of trouble and a lot of cost, fortunately I wasn't injured but easily could have been, I DONT want the same thing to happen to someone else, especially when the costs involved to totally remove the risk are very low.  I can accept the fact that people have never had problems themselves but I am not going to let people tell me and others they are reliable when my own experience and engineering background says the polar opposite.

Something I do care about though are the one sided answers and the misleading information and sometimes sheer ignorance that gets displayed in here and the fact that people who don't know better and don't stop to question things blindly accept it time after time and may well go on to needlessly suffer as a result.

Lets go right back to the start of this thread. The OP had done his research and already had his mind made up over his choice of joint yet others jumped in insisted they knew better based not on facts but on their own hit and miss personal experiences and convinced him to do something else!!

So why do people do that?? 

OH oh! I have an experience to share!

... I have also had a clip master link fail... It was on an older moped in which I had installed the chain myself... rode it for months and about 1500 miles (a lot for a moped in a few months!)... I had to work on the throttle one day.  I got that fixed up, and took her around the block to see how she ran.  Coming up on a stop sign and I began to engine brake when the chain just came off, wrapped around the rear axle, locked the rear tire, and whipped me in the leg.  I kept her upright although I was only going 15mph anyway.. but have a nice scar on my leg from the chain hitting me... don't want to think about having been going faster, or on a bigger bike, with a bigger chain, etc...

FWIW, and even though I have my own clip link story... I do believe they are a rare occurrence, and most likely to fail from improper install... most folks do probably use them forever and never have an issue...

But, as a rider I know there are so many things out there that can bring us to the pavement... I don't want it to be from anything I could have prevented, and especially something as simple as a chain.  So those of you who believe that any extra bit of visibility, or noise, or condition, or gadget will remove an extra 1/100,000 chance of going down... this is another one of those things (even if you don't think like that!)... don't waste your chances on a clip style master link, and get one that's more secure without the horror stories... as if its 'that' much more expensive or time consuming to go any other route

- Bboy

Ah well ... If the OP has already made up his mind then he is one of the 'saved' ... So cool ...

..... 'Specify say 10%' ?? ... So it's unknown how much they put in as a margin... And a bit inaccurate engineering wise ..

It could be 100% ?! ... 50% ... Any % ... It could be to cover their collective ass insurance wise cos insurance claims have a habit of breeding...

Despite asking all these questions ... I reckon I'll go with a screw type anyway ... Since 'they new and hip and cool' ... And possibly best of both worlds.... Strong yet removable ... Win!

Quote from: Janx101 on September 06, 2013, 05:30:10 AM

Quote from: jboogie13 on September 06, 2013, 05:21:07 AM
than to cause yourself the mental anguish of sifting through all the "first hand" stories on this forum.

I trust the engineers who put them on bikes more than a bunch of dried up forum members

So your bike is totally OEM and completely un-modified? .. Them engineers being so cluey and all?

I don't dispute the engineers wisdom ... Just possibly the selective thinking ... If you have changed to a different oil or tyres or brakes or suspension or battery or lights or exhaust .. Etc etc 

Actually, it is. I believe you yourself have posted in my thread about it.

Some things that commonly get changed  are done so with proven improvements, I.e Jetting. But this is something that varied in every country due to emissions restrictions etc.

The subject at hand however is a very gray area, with no definitive conclusions; simply the same arguments presented for either option every time the subject is mentioned.

Quote from: Dr.McNinja on September 05, 2013, 07:19:00 PM
Thought I was getting a deal. By the description it's a bikemaster 520-110 chain. I'm not going to install the chain until I have a rivet-style master link for it.

From what I understand I don't need to send the chain back. I can just find and use a rivet-style master link for it. So my question is this:

Where can I get a master link for a chain like this? Do I have to get a bikemaster branded master link or can I just find one that works? I assume the master link has to be of the same pitch. Is there anything else I need to know?

Thank you!

I have used both ... I am not particularly impressed by rivet/bolt type. This one I have got has threatened to come loose a few times. There is nothing you can do as added insurance.
I also have had a clip style come loose, but you actually can put thin guage wire tie wire and keep it more secure. However I can easily see a situation where the wire and the clip come loose in minutes of each other and you never notice.

Which is why ... I HATE CHAINS. On a cheapo commuter bike ... that is one very very quick way to screw the beginers who buy it and shaft them over and over and over again ...
Idiot suzuki put a belt in the savage ... made in 1986.
So the technology was there, and on the GS they put a chain. Idiots is all I can say.

Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: The Buddha on September 06, 2013, 07:48:27 AMI have used both ... I am not particularly impressed by rivet/bolt type.

With the bolt style master link, I would have to use red Loctite. It's not a positive locking mechanism, but it'll sure help the nut hold.

Quote from: RossLH on September 06, 2013, 08:52:09 AM

Quote from: The Buddha on September 06, 2013, 07:48:27 AMI have used both ... I am not particularly impressed by rivet/bolt type.

With the bolt style master link, I would have to use red Loctite. It's not a positive locking mechanism, but it'll sure help the nut hold.

Or a tiny little pinch on the nut prior to installation.

Quote from: jboogie13 on September 06, 2013, 09:31:45 AM

Quote from: RossLH on September 06, 2013, 08:52:09 AM

Quote from: The Buddha on September 06, 2013, 07:48:27 AMI have used both ... I am not particularly impressed by rivet/bolt type.

With the bolt style master link, I would have to use red Loctite. It's not a positive locking mechanism, but it'll sure help the nut hold.

Or a tiny little pinch on the nut prior to installation.

The nut isn't even required to be on there AFAIK. Its press on. Nut is the install tool. The bolt may even break away, its necked past the threads.
Cool.
Buddha.