Hey there, I'm seeing if anyone on here can help me out. I'm in desperate need of it! I bought a bike earlier this year with no title but got a bill of sale thinking that's all I'd need to get a new title. Unfortunately in the state of Virginia that isnt enough. I applied for a new title but couldn't get one.  After running around with my head cut off i contacted a second investigator through my Criminal justice professor (cop/ magistrate). The investigator came back to me with the new that my bike doesnt exist. That it never had existed. In any data base they can find. It doesnt exist in any police data base in virginia, doesnt exist in any dmv records, or in any other data base they could possibly think of to run it through. This bugs me because I just blew all my money before college to get it running. Basically the dmv told me theres nothing they can do for me. Ive got a bike that exist but doesnt exist. Is anyone out there able to sell me a title? or a virginia title? just some sort of documentation. I dont have much money, especially not for a new frame.. help?

Vehicle buying 101: ALWAYS make sure you get a title with the purchase and that the listed owner matches the name on the seller's driver's license.

The bill of sale is typically not required for titling and only used for tax purposes; if the sale price is under 50% of the book value and you don't have a bill of sale, then the DMV typically biss taxes based on the book value rather than the sale price.

In basically every state the most important document for registering a vehicle in your name (and title transfer) is a current title on which the seller has signed it over to you; some states require this to be notarized.  The title is actually tied to the bike's VIN number, so it's impossible to buy just a title.  It's possible that the bike is registered in another state.

Probably your best bet would be to contact the seller and request that he get a duplicate title that he can sign over to you.  If that fails, you may have to take him to small claims court.
Alternatively, you may be able to get a title through the abandoned vehicle process; but there is a possibility that the seller will say it's his and claim it.

Try here:
https://www.nicb.org/theft_and_fraud_awareness/vincheck

Never hurts to try CarFax -
http://vin.carfax.com/new2/?partner=GCT_3&infinity=gaw~Vin%2BUS%2BENG%2BSPART~Check%20Vin%2BEXACT~27871144463~vin%20check~e

There are lots of places if you google "vin check".

Even if it costs a little, you should be able to get a new title if it shows up somewhere. Probably some other state.

And do a VIN decode to be sure it is a real VIN. AND look on the steering stem. The VIN is stamped there.
http://www.vindecoder.net/

I check the CARFAX it didn't exist.I took the vehicle for theft and it wasn't stolen or report it stolen nor has it been reported wrecked. Its changed hands over five times without the title so we can't find the original owner

Quote from: aaronmact on October 28, 2013, 10:21:11 PMIts changed hands over five times without the title so we can't find the original owner

Have any of those intermediary owners had it registered?  You need the title to register it.  Also each time a vehicle changes hands the title has to be signed over and then submitted to the DMV; they in turn will issue a new title in the new owner's name.  So on your end you don't need a title with the original owner's name on it, but rather that of the person who sold it to you.

I've tried all that and the DMV couldn't help. The previous owners did them no good neither did the previous plates on the bike

if those sources didnt work for you, then something simple is wrong, like changing zero for the letter O and 1 for the letter i or L, most of all, should be 11-17 characters in the vin.   

shifting gears, not all states require a title for transfer or ownership after so many years old.  there are some states that only require a bill of sale,  (here comes the Dicey part) there are some companies that can register your bike in one of those states giving you plates and registration good for 1 year along with needed paperwork to correctly register the bike in your state.   (WARNING some of these companies ARE, and some of them ARE NOT on the up and up. BEWARE)

and finnaly, the old fall back, find a titled frame and swap the parts over, keep the bill of sale showing you bought the first bike as a "PARTS BIKE" like a blown engine replacement. some states dont like engine swaps without a paper trail showing you legaly bought the engine, the rest of the bike parts are not traced like the engine and frame are

in Minnesota you have to do a "statement of facts" this is what im doing from buying my frame from Pinwall Inc. I had to take pictures of the frame and get some paperwork bring it in to the DMV and wait 4-6 months for a title. if you do this its a legal doc you are signing so beware. Call down to a state office that does your titling and see what they can do, explain what happened and ask how the other person was able to get tabs for it(registered), be nice if you are rude or an ass to them they will not help you. You might want to try and see if you can get it titled as a bike you built yourself, like a custom bike builder would do. Also you might have to get it inspected, depends on your state. if nothing else you can get a frame from Pinwall for under $200, but this also comes with only a bill of sale because they send the title back to their DMV to be destroyed.

Washington has a procedure for unknown owner and while it goes through process you have plates.
The previous plates should be tied to something in the DMV records.
Let some of us try to help. Would you give us a photograph of the VIN on the steering stem? Plenty of people here willing to help. We all have our special internet searches. Someone may turn up something from a different state.

Back to the plates - what comes up when they run the plate?

The titled frame is an option. I have bought titled frames for $100 plus postage. Transferred the title and walked out with new plates in 5 minutes - then that is here in Washington where bikes don't need inspections.

One other option is find a real crappy parts bike with a title.

One other type of title is a custom made bike. It may require an inspection, but that might work in your state. Custom would not necessarily have a title or paper trail.

Sure it may not exist - I have a GSXR frame that does not exist, but of course that's cos I got it from canadia.
Some states (CA and TX)  may never let you register it ...
Some states (like NH and GA that I know of) could care less.
Cool.
Buddha.

I hope sombody can help. I had a similar problem a view years back with a bike in TN. I did not get anywhere and gave up. I was a bike from GA, where they don't need one for older vehicles somehow. I ended up giving up and getting rid of the bike so I traded it for something else with a buddy that wanted parts of it.

Now I make sure, as mentioned above, title with current owner, matching the DL and I get a bill of sale also. Last bike came from NY with last registration in NY in 08. No problem to transfer to TN.

Sorry if my replies or awnsers have been short. I've been doing my replies off my phone and my college WiFi has been interfering. 

As far as the plates, the Virginia DMV empties their data base every five years. The bike hasn't been registered since 99.

I've applied for abandoned vehicle,  rebuilt (since it was litterally a frame with a box of parts) and anything else that I could think of and all got turned down.

And hears the steering stem picture s (if they post)

[attachment deleted by admin]

Quote from: tcmia on October 29, 2013, 06:20:34 AMNow I make sure, as mentioned above, title with current owner, matching the DL and I get a bill of sale also. Last bike came from NY with last registration in NY in 08. No problem to transfer to TN.

Yeah, the valid title is the most important document to get when buying private party.  Some states require a notarized sign-over to the new owner; if you buy a bike from titled in a state that requires notary, the state you're transferring the title to may check that the signature is notarized.

Quote from: aaronmact on October 29, 2013, 09:34:35 AMAs far as the plates, the Virginia DMV empties their data base every five years. The bike hasn't been registered since 99.

I've applied for abandoned vehicle,  rebuilt (since it was litterally a frame with a box of parts) and anything else that I could think of and all got turned down.

I what state was it last registered?

And there should be a record of the title even if it hasn't been registered.  The title is the proof of ownership, while the plates/registration are what lets you use it on the roads.

Perhaps you should talk with a supervisor at the DMV and see if they can tell you why the abandoned/rebuilt title apps were turned down.

The bikes last plates where here in Virginia.  Which is what blew my mind again.

And I guess I'll try talking to them again. They said I couldn't claim it as those because it wasn't them.

I appreciate everyone who is helping me, it truly means alot. Ill give you all the in depth run down of my Dmv experience. This is after running the carfax (finding the only thing was it being shipped to the dealer), and searching things online to find whether it was stolen.

I waited in line at the dmv for a good hour ( like always) and I finally get to the front of the line. I tell the lady, "hey I just got this bike, the guy didnt have the title. It's changed hands five times with out it and we cant find the original owner. I have the original plate numbers if you could run those and get an idea of the last owner since they were registered here in virginia. " she pretty much told me no. That I would have to apply for an investigator to track down the original owner. I  was like " well can i claim it as an abandoned vehicle? Its been sitting for ten years, all of which it hasnt been on the road. " she said no.  I asked " well what about a salvage or rebuilt vehicle title? I mean I got this thing literally in a box. Just pure parts and a frame" again she said "no"

Getting flustered I finally said ok and took her form to fill out and sent that along with the bill of sale and anything I had about the bike. The guy emailed me and told me there was nothing he could do. He said to fill out forms VSA12 and VSA17 ( in lieu of a title, and application for a new title (I believe)). And so I filled those out and sent them into the dmv with all the money and fees Id need to get  new title. 3 Months went buy and one day I get a call from the dmv. They told me "they couldn't get me a title without some proof of ownership, such as a title, or a registration card."

At this point I was livid, because the dmv was basically telling me "you cant get a title without a title" (since you need a title to register the vehicle to get a registration card).  Thinking I hit a dead end I approached my Criminal justice professor who is a police officer and magistrate here in the state of Virginia.  I gave her all the information and asked her to run it through the Virginia police data base. She got back nothing. So she took the information to her friend who is an investigator with the dmv  and he ran everything he could think of. He came back to her and told her that something has happened that hasn't happened to him in the past 15 years hes worked there. Nothing came back. He said " literally the bike doesnt exist in any database or any records I have access to or can find."  he said I should try contacting the dealer, thats pretty much my only shot.

And now Im here. So theres the full run down since I was skimpy on it before 

Oh fudge it ... If there is a candidate for a title+vin cut and paste I think this is it ...
Get a titled frame from any state, and you dont need the frame.
Then cut those numbers into your neck. Then go to dmv and get it titled.

Cool.
Buddha.

Bad idea on recutting any numbers on the frame, you could get in even deeper dodo. It might even be a felony in Va to alter the frame VIN and a separate offense from any others.

Living in Va and having gone through this process without success, your best bet is to get a titled frame and title THAT frame in Va. If you carry the title (from virtually any other state) into the DMV and the title is not branded salvage then they will issue you a title to that frame.

That is your best bet and although I am sure it is not what you want to read it is your best option in Virginia. Bottom line is Virginia law basically states, if you do not have a title, you do not own the bike. Otherwise you have a legal nightmare and it could cost you a lot more time, money and frustration before you get a title.

regards
Mech

Just a tonight, could you get it registered by someone in a state that is very leanant, obtain a title and then transfer it to VA. Obviously it would have to be somebody you trust.

Try this for $9.99:
http://vincarhistory.com/creditCard.php?vin=JS1GM51A5P2101700

Strange no one will go to the effort of helping and doing the right thing. Running the last plates should be something they would do. I bet on-line you can get records for that license plate. Might cost $10 but worth a try.

Carfax shows nothing? Expensive and they say 1 record.

This one says 3 records exist:
http://www.autocheck.com/consumers/gatewayAction.do?siteID=3403&WT.mc_id=3403&vin=js1gm51a5p2101700

Try this one:
http://vinfreecheck.com/


Another thing to try is to NOT ask what you can do.
Say you bought a storage locker or house or garage and found this 1993 abandoned motorcycle and want to license it. Get an "unknown owner" title.
If they find no records for it, it would seem hard to say you don't own it or have it in your possession. You have it. Not reported stolen or totaled so why won't they work with you?

I'm tempted to walk into the local licensing office with the VIN and say I was thinking of buying it. Is it stolen or totaled? Then see what t hey say. I did that before for a parts bike with a farkled up title (so it ended up as a parts bike rather than filing the "unknown owner" papers and that's how I found out about that process!)


This one says 3 records for $29.95
https://www.autocheck.com/consumers/creditCardAction.do?multiButton.y=154891469&multiButton.x=990038907&siteID=0&vin=js1gm51a5p2101700&sslRedirect=noRedirect

KBB has 3 records. I say spring for it and see what they show. also sites will  run the plate for a fee. Seems worth it. If you do your homework, there should be someone in the DMV to assist you. Otherwise, go to a different state.
https://www.autocheck.com/consumers/creditCardAction.do?WT.mc_id=5175&singleButton.y=-1141936852&singleButton.x=1983564069&siteID=5175&vin=js1gm51a5p2101700&sslRedirect=noRedirect


Maybe a friend at a dealership as access to these sources? It would be interesting to see the 3 reports where CarFax says 1 report and it seems someone on your end found 1 report which was the delivery to the dealer.

have you contacted that original dealer?

I dont know how Id contact or even find the original dealer :/
But I might try your storage locker/ house attempt when I go back on break.