Asking because I have not yet removed them from either wheel. Currently they are soaking in Kroil since I heard they tend to stick.

If removal goes well and I press in the new ones, is there a ridge or a mark showing how deep they need to go in? I want to know in advance in case I need to mark the depth before hand.

Firstly, with regards to getting them out – I used the motion pro bearing removal tools , The one with the different size split inserts that you fit a big flattened Rod into and knock it out from the other side. I found this really easy and minimises any possible damage to the seating surface.

My first approach was to seat the bearings as deep as they could go against the initial shoulder. However I've found that the separating tube between the two bearings was extending the inner race outwards, I.e. It seemed like the bearings were too close together and the tube was pushing the inner  race out which would cause alignment and premature wear problems.

I had to slightly back one of the bearings out to relieve that strain. When the inner races were snug against the spacing tube but did not feel extended I figured it was okay and put it back together.

In retrospect I would use a vernier calliper  and measure the distance that each bearing protrudes before removing them. Then as you get close to the final position go slowly and check often.

It's really quite easy!


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Quote from: bmf on November 18, 2013, 08:26:15 PM
Firstly, with regards to getting them out – I used the motion pro bearing removal tools , The one with the different size split inserts that you fit a big flattened Rod into and knock it out from the other side. I found this really easy and minimises any possible damage to the seating surface.

My first approach was to seat the bearings as deep as they could go against the initial shoulder. However I've found that the separating tube between the two bearings was extending the inner race outwards, I.e. It seemed like the bearings were too close together and the tube was pushing the inner  race out which would cause alignment and premature wear problems.

I had to slightly back one of the bearings out to relieve that strain. When the inner races were snug against the spacing tube but did not feel extended I figured it was okay and put it back together.

In retrospect I would use a vernier calliper  and measure the distance that each bearing protrudes before removing them. Then as you get close to the final position go slowly and check often.

It's really quite easy!


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Excellent suggestion on using the vernier caliper to measure the depth beforehand. I'm sad to hear that it's possible to press them in incorrectly, though... seems like bad design.

I'm with Jack on this one - drive them out with a punch. And I've tapped in bearings before and can offer this advice if you try it: keep the wheel itself warm (in your house or wherever) and throw the bearings in a freezer for 45-60 minutes. Use a large socket that only touches the outer race (I think I used a 1.25" socket?) and make sure it begins to go in straight. If it goes in crooked, it can get stuck. When tapping it in, it will be a high pitch sound until it gets all the way in - then you'll get more of a dull thud when you hit it. Or just press them in.

I was going to add to my post Rich referred to and deleted it instead by mistake so I'll repost.   

I drive old bearings out reaching thru with a long punch or screwdriver and hammer them out.  New bearings are then driven in with a socket against the outer race and bottomed in the counter bores with the spacer between them.

When the wheel is put on the bike and the axle nut is tightened down it's all clamped up tight together thru the bearings and spacers.  The length of the spacer between the wheel bearings is slightly shorter than the distance between the bearing inner races so the clamping of them tight together will give the wheel bearings the proper preload.

They go in as far as they can go in.

What is EXTREMELY important is to remember to put in the spacer that goes between the bearings. THAT and ONLY THAT is what will keep the bearings in the right spacing and prevent the hubs from getting pressed in causing the bearings to be destroyed.

There are spacers in and outside of the rear wheel. I've seen the spacer on the inside of the cush drive get left out. Then also the one on the outside of it.

Its very difficult not to seat them correctly, the outer races go hard up against a shoulder on the bottom of the housing.  It will be obvious when they are home. 

The inner spacers are not really for locating the bearings, nor for providing preload. In this case its the exact opposite, they prevent preload from occurring.

Preloading is way of reducing internal clearances within certain bearings which in some cases is vital for certain types to function correctly such as angular contact or taper rollers, as found in the headstock. Its done by holding the rotating elements together to very very precise amounts. Too much or unwanted preload will reduce these clearances and lead to improper operation and premature failure.

62 and 63 series single row ball bearings are good for radial loads ie the weight of the bike pushing down when its vertical but they cant handle heavy axial loads which is in effect........preload! These are the forces that act on the wheel and axlebolt when the bike is banked over and want to push the inner race of the bearing out of the outer race. 

62 and 63 bearings are manufactured with varying degrees of internal clearance and the tolerance marked on the designation number.  CN, C1, C2 or C3. C3. CN being `normal` and C3 having the greatest clearance. Wheel bearings are CN.

The spacers clamp the inner races together, hold them in place on the axlebolt and transmit the forces into the forks/swingarm where they are absorbed. With nothing holding the inner races in place the bearings would be subject to a degree of preload they cannot cope with and soon fail.

Yes...the length of the spacer is critical, but no its not to provide preload, its to hold the inner race in a position relative to the outer race so an unwanted preload condition cant happen.



F1 represents radial loading
Fa represents axial loading


Now here comes the kicker. Lets ask ourselves  a question......if wheel bearing preload is critical and needs to be set to a specific torque or clearance why isn't it quoted in the manual along with a detailed instructions in the way the procedure for setting up the taper-roller headrace bearing arrangement is 

I faced the same issue as bmf when I changed my front wheel bearings.
Initially I drove the new bearings home hard into their recess as far as they would go (big socket hitting on the outer race). The spacer put so much load on the inner race that the new bearings where locked up. I had to back out the bearings slightly to relive the load on the inner races.
Either the spacer is too long or the bearing recess is too deep. This is on an 2006.
I would advise caution when seating the new bearings, seating them so the spacer is just held captive by the inner races and the bearings turn freely.

Duurgh... just wasted my time repeating what Rich said! Ah well.
As others have said, use/make a GOOD drift that's just a little smaller in diameter than the bearing housing and contacts the outer race only.
THE HEAT SPANNER (good for lots of jobs).
So do yourself a big favour... put the new bearing in a polythene bag, and stick it in the fridge for an hour or two, and if you have a heat gun, warm all around the bearing housing. Once you've had a bearing slip into it's housing by doing this you'll never do it any other way. The heat expands the housing and the fridge contracts the bearing. Less force required, less chance of damaging the housing.
When you tap it in (lightly if you've used the heat spanner and even if you didn't) starting it going in squarely is essential.
-Jools

There has to be a slight distance between the bottom of outer race and the bottom of the housing on the RH side.
It is normal in bearing arrangements like this to have a fixed end and a floating end. It allows for thermal expansion and gives the axlebolt and bearing somewhere to go without forcing the races apart and causing preload if things get hot and expand.

If you smack the bearings home as far as they will go with a FBG on both sides they will be preloaded and fail, the RH bearing needs to just sit against the top of the spacer tube. If you use the factory tool it draws the bearing into the correct position and sets the distance automatically but no one outside of a dealership ever does so it needs to be done by feel. Tap the RH bearing in most of the way by its outer race then finish it off by tapping on the inner race to sit it up against the spacer so it is free to turn correctly. Do it this way and there will be no preload on the bearings to bind them up.

Section 6-4 of the Suzuki manual covers the procedure but I cant post it up from this PC 

EDIT....yes I can.

I use the center spacer sleeve to make sure its seated on both sides. I dont heat and freeze etc etc, but I do have a damn good drift and a seating tool - the outer race of the bearing ground a wee bit on the outside and welded up to a plate and a stem in the center), just drop it in the wheel with the new bearing and hammer it in.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: sledge on November 19, 2013, 02:27:49 AM
Its very difficult not to seat them correctly, the outer races go hard up against a shoulder on the bottom of the housing.  It will be obvious when they are home. 

The inner spacers are not really for locating the bearings, nor for providing preload. In this case its the exact opposite, they prevent preload from occurring.

Preloading is way of reducing internal clearances within certain bearings which in some cases is vital for certain types to function correctly such as angular contact or taper rollers, as found in the headstock. Its done by holding the rotating elements together to very very precise amounts. Too much or unwanted preload will reduce these clearances and lead to improper operation and premature failure.

62 and 63 series single row ball bearings are good for radial loads ie the weight of the bike pushing down when its vertical but they cant handle heavy axial loads which is in effect........preload! These are the forces that act on the wheel and axlebolt when the bike is banked over and want to push the inner race of the bearing out of the outer race. 

62 and 63 bearings are manufactured with varying degrees of internal clearance and the tolerance marked on the designation number.  CN, C1, C2 or C3. C3. CN being `normal` and C3 having the greatest clearance. Wheel bearings are CN.

The spacers clamp the inner races together, hold them in place on the axlebolt and transmit the forces into the forks/swingarm where they are absorbed. With nothing holding the inner races in place the bearings would be subject to a degree of preload they cannot cope with and soon fail.

Yes...the length of the spacer is critical, but no its not to provide preload, its to hold the inner race in a position relative to the outer race so an unwanted preload condition cant happen.



F1 represents radial loading
Fa represents axial loading


Now here comes the kicker. Lets ask ourselves  a question......if wheel bearing preload is critical and needs to be set to a specific torque or clearance why isn't it quoted in the manual along with a detailed instructions in the way the procedure for setting up the taper-roller headrace bearing arrangement is 

This is incredible information. I completely understand what you are explaining and that makes it much clearer as to what I need to achieve when seating the new bearings.

The center spacer sleeve and the whole axle and what not make sure the axial load is near 0.
You wanna ruin the bearings in about 3 sec ... Install it without that spacer sleeve.

Cool.
Buddha.

Not quite......

You cant make dynamic forces go away except by opposing them, action and reaction are equal and opposite and all that.

There will always be some axial load on the bearings when the axle goes out of the horizontal. The spacers direct the majority of that load into the forks and swingarm where it is absorbed instead of through the bearings where it will cause serious damage to them and as you say........destroy them very quickly.

Quote from: adidasguy on November 19, 2013, 12:00:43 AM
They go in as far as they can go in.

What is EXTREMELY important is to remember to put in the spacer that goes between the bearings. THAT and ONLY THAT is what will keep the bearings in the right spacing and prevent the hubs from getting pressed in causing the bearings to be destroyed.

There are spacers in and outside of the rear wheel. I've seen the spacer on the inside of the cush drive get left out. Then also the one on the outside of it.

excellence, as always.

i'll only add that using all-thread + a couple of washers the right size for the OUTTER RACE will press the bearings in with zero stress to the bore, spacer, bearing, or your fingers.

when the nut on the all thread stops, it's done.

check the internal spacer with your pinky: if it slops up/down, it's not fully seated on the outter race of the bearing. if it's snug between the INNER RACES, or barely moves up/down, it's fine. install the wheel on the bike and enjoy another 60-80,000 miles of service.


also, if you ever need to make spacers for a wheel swap, 1" pipe, thick wall, and a pipe cutter works wonders. within .003" of stock is easily accomplished.

(hint, sometimes people forget the bearing spacers (shops too!) and you find out an hour later when the bearings are toast)

I've changed all 4 of the wheel bearings on my 02 GS after having put 80k miles on my 97 GS and similar miles on the Hondas before the GSs without ever changing a motorcycle wheel bearing before.  Just make sure the new bearings are seated all the way in to the bottom and the proper spacer is between them.  The sound will change as it hits bottom and you will know it by the ring.

Quote from: adidasguy on November 19, 2013, 12:00:43 AM
They go in as far as they can go in.

What is EXTREMELY important is to remember to put in the spacer that goes between the bearings. THAT and ONLY THAT is what will keep the bearings in the right spacing and prevent the hubs from getting pressed in causing the bearings to be destroyed.

There are spacers in and outside of the rear wheel. I've seen the spacer on the inside of the cush drive get left out. Then also the one on the outside of it.

And that is exactly why I changed the rear bearings on my 02 GS, spacer inside the cush drive was left out by shop that mounted and balanced a new tire and I didn't catch it.

When the axle nut is properly tighten down the bearings will have some preload and the wheel cannot be moved side to side which leads me to the changing of my front bearings on the 02.

Riding home one very wet day I noticed I had no front brake for a second or so until the pads wiped the rotor dry.  When I got home and put the bike up I discovered the wheel would shake laterally a bit so the pads didn't ride on the rotor to keep it wiped dry.  Axle nut was still tight so new bearings were installed.  Once all dried out the brake functioned normal again until the new bearings arrived.

By the way ohgood's pinky test is valid, use it.  +1

If you ever drove a car with drum front brakes in the wet you'll know why all cars including the least expensive ones went to disc front brakes as soon as they were developed.  Getting one front drum brake wet and hitting the brakes could be a tragic experience.

If you've ever noticed the piece pressed into the GS wheel bores on one side that is size chosen at assembly so the outer races will be accurately spaced and the bearings will be properly and lightly preloaded when the axle nut is tighten.  By the way, the full lateral load of cornering is carried thru the bearings to the inner races and spacers before it is transmitted to the forks and swing arm.

In sledge's diagram, does:

LEFT = CLUTCH SIDE
RIGHT = THROTTLE SIDE

?

In my mind left and right side are as when sitting on the bike.  Left and right is correct on that diagram but the indicated gap is not in my opinion.  It's shown that way in my 89-99 Suzuki shop manual and my 02 Clymer manual but I chose to ignore them, both bearing outer races should be fully seated and then checked with ohgood's little pinky. 

Jack?  regardless of how many thousand miles on how many thousand bikes in how many thousand years you have done......two single row bearings are never `locked` into position and preloaded on the same shaft if it rotates at a relatively high speed, it defies all the design fundamentals and good engineering practice and it will lead to premature failure.

It doesn't matter if its a on a Japanese bike, a German electric-motor, or an American compressor, the application is the same, one end has to float in the housing for the setup to be reliable. If on low speed applications a small amount of preload IS needed to stiffen things up and prevent vibration its done by placing a wave washer or a Bellville washer in the gap in the float end housing or on the opposite side of the floating end bearing so it acts against the outer race pressing it against the inner.

If there were taper roller or angular contact bearings in there it would be a different story, they DO need to be pre-loaded to specific values to function correctly (like head stock bearings do) and there are several ways off doing it.

Do some research 

Here is a starter..... http://www.tungpei.com/UserFiles/File/ch3.pdf .....and this is 101 stuff.

The first diagram shows a typical arrangement consisting of two single row bearings.......see the gap at the bottom of the housing, does it look familiar?

In the GS wheelhub the RH bearing can float in its housing, its shown in the manual and its the way the setup is designed.....and because it floats it cannot be preloaded 

Knock it off sledge, you know that I no longer reply to you and have no regard for anything you have to say.  Over and out!