Only re-use if u absolutely have-to.

You don't re-use head gaskets. Period.




Except...yes, there's always an exception....the Gipsy Major engine in my 1940 Tiger Moth had bronze heads and copper head gaskets. You could anneal the copper gaskets and re-use them.

Kudos on the kite!! 

Fair enough. That was my initial instinct but just wanted to confirm since head gaskets alone are $50! Thanks all.

Quote from: younastytwin on December 12, 2013, 09:32:46 AM
Fair enough. That was my initial instinct but just wanted to confirm since head gaskets alone are $50! Thanks all.

Cereal box card board and some copper spray paint?

Don't you mean cereal box cardboard and toothpaste?

Quote from: the mole on December 13, 2013, 01:15:34 AM
Don't you mean cereal box cardboard and toothpaste?

I thought tooth paste was for teeth?

Quote from: younastytwin on December 12, 2013, 09:32:46 AM
Fair enough. That was my initial instinct but just wanted to confirm since head gaskets alone are $50! Thanks all.

Don't go cheap. You'll redo it in no time if it even works. Buy the right thing unless you don't depend on your gs for reliable transportation.

the more the miles the less the O=rings are going to be forgiving for reuse.  the head gasket, unless damaged in removal (creased,kinked, torn, or otherwise distorted) can generaly be reused once completely cleaned up of factory coating and degreased  then given a couple coats on both sides of spray copper gasket. ive reused headgaskets several times in this manor.  the headgasket doesnt hold back oil pressure or a cooling system that can become pressurized when hot. anywhere there is paper gaskets almost always need replaceing.  rubber O-rings, copper crush washers need to be inspected and judged carefully before reuse.

truth be told, you could cut up a stop sign scrape it clean, degrease it and spray it with that copper sealant and use it as a headgasket for the GS engine.  compression would be alittle low because its so thick, but it would work and hold up fine.

Had to leave the bike alone for a few weeks over the holidays but I'm back in there and determined to get this thing straightened out.

1) I now have a new head gasket, o-rings and cam chain tensioner gasket. Do I need new copper washers for the cylinder head too?

2) I've got all 8 nuts off the cylinder head (washers appear to be stuck on - I guess they're "crushed" on?) and removed the little bolt on the outside of the head up front. BUT I cannot get the head off. I've tapped the back side with a rubber mallet, tapped the front side with a rubber mallet and piece of wood. I've tried to carefully pry using a wide blade screwdriver on the back side just under the intake ports. I've gone around with a hammer and thin-blade screwdriver at the seam to try to loosen it that way. And no movement that I can see at all. All I seem to be doing is taking off paint and risking cracking a fin.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Thanks again, guys.

The copper washers are crush washers. They are cheap and yes you should replace them.

You have to pry from various points to get it off. Pry a little at a time all the way around. Eventually it will separate.
The cams must be loose or off because the cam chain will hold it on.
Be careful you do not pull the cylinders off with the head. (been there, done that...)
Insure you are prying apart where they join.

Thanks Adidasguy.

Finally figured out that it was those crush washers that were holding it in place (are everybody else's washers just loose on there after you remove the cylinder head nuts?). Once I unstuck those from their seats/studs, I managed to get the thing loose.

BUT NOT BEFORE cracking the seal of the cylinder gasket on the front side. Little bit of oil bleeding out now. It didn't totally come off the crankcase though.

Can somebody confirm/deny that I now have to pull the cylinder off as well and replace that gasket (as opposed to just putting the repaired head back on and torqueing the whole thing down.

Quote from: younastytwin on January 10, 2014, 05:46:33 PMCan somebody confirm/deny that I now have to pull the cylinder off as well and replace that gasket (as opposed to just putting the repaired head back on and torqueing the whole thing down.

Confirmed. Lots of sand and crap gets into the front center stud channels which are exposed at the front. When you lift the cylinder it's very likely it gets between the cylinders/block or in other places it shouldn't be.

Often they come a little loose. It can be expected since you've removed the 8 nuts holding that thing on there.
So far, I just leave it and it torques back down just fine. Never had a leak.
If I changed cylinders or had to completely remove them, I'd put a new one on.

Quote from: Badot on January 10, 2014, 06:07:16 PM

Quote from: younastytwin on January 10, 2014, 05:46:33 PMCan somebody confirm/deny that I now have to pull the cylinder off as well and replace that gasket (as opposed to just putting the repaired head back on and torqueing the whole thing down.

Confirmed. Lots of sand and crap gets into the front center stud channels which are exposed at the front. When you lift the cylinder it's very likely it gets between the cylinders/block or in other places it shouldn't be.

Really good point there, Badot. It's not a bad idea to make a decent hose-out of this front area....around the bottom front of the cylinder-block, and around the cross-engine installation stud.....a regular thing....like when the bike gets an overall wash. It's somewhat surprising the amount of sandy crap that builds up there.

I just found this thread.

Do you want the workshop manual?I downloaded mine as a PDF file off the internerd somewhere.It shouldnt be hard to find -or i can send you a copy

You know,i've been thinking.Could it be that the valve has simply lost it's collets (while you were playing about above them) and dropped onto the piston with no damage at all?

I guess you'll find out soon!

Oh and BTW.If the valve is intact ,you'll want to test to see if it's bent.There is a simple and easy way to leak test them which will show if they're bent.Just ask me about it if it gets to that

Thanks Ron (and company). I'm using a Clymer manual paired with the BaltimoreGS rebuild videos. And yeah, finally got the head off, and unfortunately, the cylinder as well.

Valve was broke so I'm outsourcing that portion of the repair to my local mechanic. I've ordered a new cylinder gasket because the cylinder came off and the mating surfaces got some road debris all over them as described by folks above.

I've tried to clean both the crankcase and cylinder mating surfaces as best as I could (and praying nothing too serious fell down in the case itself - although can I assume that it'll get caught up in the oil filter as long as it's not too big?).

Next steps are to clean the sooty piston domes as described in the manual (anybody know what kind of "soft scraper" they might be referring to? Just a soft bristle brush or something?), replace the cylinder gasket when it arrives, get the cylinder back on, and then hope my mechanic's done fixing that valve in the head. Then get it all back together and pray to any and all gods that it runs ok!

Alright, time for an update. I got the cylinder jug back on after replacing the gasket and cleaning the piston domes. My broken valve was repaired and I got the head back on. 

I had a little trouble getting the cams back on, especially the exhaust. Every time I began tightening the caps down the chain would jump a link on the sprocket and screw up my alignment by one pin. I'm guessing this was because the cam lobe of the left exhaust valve was having to push the valve shim/bucket down as I tightened it down onto the head. I finally got it on byalternating tightening the left and right (A and B) cam caps more frequently. I just barely brought it down on each side so it seated evenly.

The cams look like they're in there okay and the motor turns over but I wonder if there's not still some sideways tension on the chain over the exhaust cam sprocket. And I wonder if this has something to do with the tach gear drive. Is there anything that needs to be done to ensure the gear on the camshaft properly aligns and meshes with tachometer drive gear below it? Or does it automatically line up when you tighten the cam down?

Thanks again!

Tach gear is automatic so no worries there. It will line up properly either right away or when the cam is wiggled a little.
Insure you did put in the washers on the left end of the cams.
When tightening cams and you encounter it pressing on the valve, rotate the motor clockwise a little. There is a position where no valves are pressed on and you can tighten down all cam journals.
Remember the front cam guide (we left it out once - oops! Might be why the timing was off 1 tooth after we put it back in.)
We have a second set of hands hold the cam chain tensioner screwed in so there is no tension as we put the cams in and tighten things down.
As mentioned, if engine rotated so no valves are being pressed you can tighten down everything and even release the cam chain tensioner. The chain will hold the cams down. After journals tightened, rotate engine more to verify your timing.
Also insure you havethe cams in the right way. The right ends will have that notch which you use as an alignment guide. Other than the intake being backwards, I can't think of what would cause sideways tension on the chain (other than the end washers being in wrong).