Why the desire to upgrade to a 600?

dgyver · June 10, 2004, 08:19:44 PM

I notice in a lot of posts that the next bike wanted after the GS tends to be 600. Why?

The 600 is not really like a GS. It is a faster reving and requires more shifting. An I4 is a completely different type of motor. They do not have the low end torque of the twin. I am surprised that more GS owners do not get a SV650 next. A much better street bike than a 600, IMHO. There are plenty of other bikes available...sport/touring, V-twins, V4's.

I am not bashing anyones decision. Not the direction I would take, just curious and a little late night rambling.

Alias · June 10, 2004, 08:29:23 PM

Are you nuts? Low end torque? Not on the GS. Other twins do.

June 10, 2004, 08:34:17 PM

Yeah good point.... I think I have an answer for you, at least this was my experience.

I eventually sold my first "small" bike and got a Honda F4i 600cc - At this stage I was a sales rep and had a company car so I was only riding 1-2 times a week.

I honestly believe that people on high powered sports bikes most often only ride on the weekends or at best a few times a week. For commuting to school, or work, or whatever the GS500 or SV650 or another sports/tourer - like a BMW! are the best kinda bikes.

When I had my CBR I always wondered why anyone would want anything but a powerful sports bike

gee was I wrong. No one wants to ride for 3 hours on a highway bent over with all the weight on your wrists and a shitty hard seat like you get on ALL sports bikes.

Its simple... its something that everyone should try once in their life... owning a bad sports bike. But for those, like me, who ride the bike as their only means of transport, a powerful sports bike is not practical. If I was a weekend basher like a lot of motorbike riders (only go out in perfect conditions) I would have another sports bike!

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70 Cam Guy · June 10, 2004, 08:45:05 PM

I've been looking (lusting for more accurately) at the Speed 4. The ss600's don't really get me going like they do for some people. I'd like the power of a V twin but don't want to go liter yet and the SV650 does nothing for me. The S4 seems like a much better deal than the 599 or FZ6 with its amazing brakes/suspension and comfy seating (for me at least)

I love the sound of VFR's but I am a naked bike lover. I love the Z1000 and ZRX but the power seems like a huge jump and I am afraid to even ask about insurance

June 10, 2004, 08:57:35 PM

Yeah the Duc's are sweet - but I can get 2 new SV650's for the same $$$ as one S4

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GRU · June 10, 2004, 09:09:44 PM

well the reason i'm gonna go with a I4 600cc is because that is the bike i wanted before the GS, i didn't buy the GS because i wanted a twin, or a small bike but because it's cheap and low insurance ($1500/year for liability in ontario

)
i have my GS because it's close to a sportbike and cheap..i love sportbikes, streetfighters and V twin ducati's but not all of them

Blueknyt · June 10, 2004, 10:44:02 PM

i want an SV650 to be honest

mrslush50 · June 10, 2004, 10:50:31 PM

I want a YZF-600R, which is really a sport touring bike. It feels a lot like a VFR.

Actually, what I really want is that new Aprilia 450R they had in Cycle World. mmmmm..... V-Twin....

tt_four · June 10, 2004, 11:27:58 PM

i have a speed four, it seemed like a good compromise between a sports bike and a standard, cause even though it doesn't have the same power as a gsxr600, it's still got a ton more power than an sv, and the handling and brakes are wonderful, not to be biased since i have one, but anyone that's ridden one and some other bikes, would probably tell you the speed four is in a seperate class from bikes like the sv650 and the 599, i think of it more like a naked supersport, tuned a little better for the street, which unfortunately cost it a little power, but it keeps up with any other 600 just fine,

as far as commuting, there's times i sit in traffic that i'd rather something a little more comfortable, and the highway gets pretty uncomfortable if i'm cruising anywhere near the speed limit, but you get used to the seating position, when i first bought it, i wanted standard bars so bad, and eventaully i took the time to find all the peices i needed, drilled a spare top clamp, but the bars on, and hated it, not really hated it, but i realized how much i did like being leaned over, it all just depends on how you ride, if i had two bikes, it'd probably be my speed four, with high bars, and a new 600rr, but i've just got one, so it's the speed four, but i've acctually put lower bars on it than stock, bars off an R6, that are probably a good 3 inches lower,

the gs is a good bike, i have a hard time getting used to the seating position, it just makes me feel like i'm sitting on the back of the bike, and makes the front end feel too light to me, it's acctually the seating position on the gs that makes my back hurt, cause i'm always trying to lean over where i'm more comfortable, but over all, just cruising around, i have fun on it, but when it's bike night, and me and a few other guys are tearing down the highway, i'd rather the speed four, i'm willing to put up with some discomfort every once in a while for the fun i get out of it,

pantablo · June 10, 2004, 11:45:06 PM

Quote from: keyzerIf I was a weekend basher like a lot of motorbike riders (only go out in perfect conditions) I would have another sports bike!

That would be me. The bike is pure entertainment.

a 600 requires more shifting? I dont think so. More than a liter maybe, not more than my gs for sure. I can ride the freeway in 1st gear. if I want to pass quickly I might need to downshift but on my gs it would be 2-3 gears to really romp on it. And in the canyons I had to pick my passing points well or I wouldnt have the room to complete the pass!

Yeah, the 600rr is a pussycat under 7k but still FAR faster than the gs. is that low end torque. Probably not, but it sure does accelerate fast even in the lower half of the tach.

My opinion having ridden (briefly) an sv650, and comparing my gs to my cbr I'd have to say the gs is MUCH more like the cbr in character. Nothing like the sv. The sv really has low end torque and is completely different to ride. The gs feels like a buzzy, low powered, low tech version of the cbr (or any inline 4, generally speaking).

There arent many choices if you want a moderately powerful twin sportbike (thats affordable and not exotic). THe sv650 and the old honda hawk are the only ones available. Otherwise you're looking at a liter twin. Most people that look to the gs/ex bikes as first bikes either want standard or sport bikes in the future and the gs/ex is a stepping stone to get there. If someone wanted a cruiser they'd start on a 650 twin instead, like the v-star 650.

Having lots of low end torque is more true for V-twins, not parallel twins, IMO.

pantablo · June 10, 2004, 11:49:32 PM

Quote from: keyzerYeah the Duc's are sweet - but I can get 2 new SV650's for the same $$$ as one S4

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The S4 refered to is the Speed4, not the Monster version by Ducati.

The speed four is actually less expensive than the sv650 and a better value (I'll leave the 'its a better bike' discussion for another time). I had one priced at $5500. And it seems like a supersport bike because it IS. They stripped the tt600 of fairing and that was it. So the speed four is a super handling bike, so much so that Motorcyclist did an article on budget bikes (599, FZ6, sv650) and had initially included the speed four because of its price point. They had to pull it and give it its own article stating that it was heads and shoulders above the other bikes. The s4 doesnt have budget suspension and is highly regarded for its handling. It has 600ss quality stuff and feels it.

I rode one and it was so much fun to ride, but needed to be revved like any 600...not unlike the gs. :dunno:

Joris · June 10, 2004, 11:52:37 PM

I have an Yamaha R6 now, but I also have my GS. The main difference is the power. The R6 has much more power, but this power is only available above +- 8000 rpm. Below that it sucks........ The GS is better in low torques. This was the main thing to get used to on the R6, riding in high rpm`s. But the handling of the R6 is a HUGE DIFFERENCE with the GS. I thought the GS was handling well, but the R6 is much, much better. I think any 4 cyl. 600cc sportbike is very different compared with the GS and requires some 'getting used to', but in the end you`ll get used to anything.

chupacabrah · June 11, 2004, 04:31:33 AM

Quote from: pantablo
Quote from: keyzerYeah the Duc's are sweet - but I can get 2 new SV650's for the same $$$ as one S4

Stay Safe

The S4 refered to is the Speed4, not the Monster version by Ducati.

The speed four is actually less expensive than the sv650 and a better value (I'll leave the 'its a better bike' discussion for another time). I had one priced at $5500. And it seems like a supersport bike because it IS. They stripped the tt600 of fairing and that was it. So the speed four is a super handling bike, so much so that Motorcyclist did an article on budget bikes (599, FZ6, sv650) and had initially included the speed four because of its price point. They had to pull it and give it its own article stating that it was heads and shoulders above the other bikes. The s4 doesnt have budget suspension and is highly regarded for its handling. It has 600ss quality stuff and feels it.

I rode one and it was so much fun to ride, but needed to be revved like any 600...not unlike the gs. :dunno:

wouldnt the speed 4 be in the same class as a 600rr or r6, being it's an I4?

how much do the daytona 600's go for?

Stime187 · June 11, 2004, 08:58:18 AM

Just to add my two cents... I personally, like others, didn't buy my GS because I wanted a twin bike... I actually didn't care much. I wanted something decently quick, small, and forgiving to LEARN to ride on... not for the future. Now that I've ridden the GS thousands of miles, learned what being on two wheels is all about, and saved up a decent chunk of change... I'm going to move on to what I really want.... an I-4 true sportbike. In fact a late model R6 will probably be sitting in my garage next to the GS in a couple weeks... but since I don't have the money for two bikes, the GS will be finding a new home. Just my view.

Scott

chupacabrah · June 11, 2004, 09:04:05 AM

I've pretty much got the same view....

I wanted something to learn on, fun to ride, not too expensive.

next year I'll probably get something else. I dont know what, yet, though.
I like the SVS's, but the SS600s are cool too. I'll have to go test some stuff out before I go shopping :mrgreen:

I like the look of the SVS, but it's said the 650 suspension is spongey. and that's for a rider that weighs way less than I do. is the sv1000s the same way, or does it have a stronger suspension?

man, there's so many different kinds of cool bikes, it's almost not fair

pantablo · June 11, 2004, 09:26:03 AM

Quote from: chupacabrahwouldnt the speed 4 be in the same class as a 600rr or r6, being it's an I4?

how much do the daytona 600's go for?

Yes, that was the point of the article. The Speed Four doesnt even belong in the budget class because its so much better, but its priced to compete with them. Thats what makes it such a great value. Its not quite an R6 though because in addition to removing the fairings they also detuned the s4 for more midrange and better driveability around town.

The msrp for the speed four is $6495 (my price of $5500 got me OTD for less than MSRP because they want to move those bikes)

Daytona 600 MSRP is $7999 and they arent discounting them as much. I paid $500 more for my 600rr.

chupacabrah-the sv650 is also a budget bike and suffers from a weak suspension. Maybe not quite as weak but still weak. The sv1000 gets complaints for being too stiff...too harsh suspension...

Alias · June 11, 2004, 09:46:05 AM

You guys think its hard to go from a GS to a 600cc I4? Try going from a 90ish HP 750CC I4 to the GS

tt_four · June 11, 2004, 09:59:34 AM

Quotehttp://www.por15.com/uploads/files/chips2.jpg

that's the thing i don't get, people are just so biased because it's a triumph instead of a japanese bike, if suzuki made the speed four, the media would've shaZam! themselves, but instead, they just pass it off as a bargain bike cause it's british, i don't know many other "standards" you can stand up on the highway in 3rd gear

pdg108 · June 11, 2004, 10:34:32 AM

To go back to your question dgyver, I think you answered it your self when you said

QuoteThe 600 is not really like a GS.

Thats exactly why I want one, one of these days. So I can experiance what that kind of power feels like. Then maybe one day I'll get a big V-Twin, then I'll be able to compare that to a I-4. If all I ever rode was a GS how could I have opinion about wether it is good or not? This way I will be able to tell what people are talking about from experiance.

I think the reason you see alot of people on this board impaticular saying they want to "upgrade", is that they are starting with the GS. But, like me, they know it won't be thier last bike. I'm just getting started, if you ask me, in 20 years I want to be able to say, "yeah, I rode one of those once, it was pretty cool", or "I rode one of those, I didn't go for it."

I've ridden the GS for a few years, when I get a new bike I will do the same thing, then I'll want something else, and sell it. After all I'm just buying them, not marrying them.

Good question though.

pantablo · June 11, 2004, 03:41:21 PM

Quote from: tt_four
Quotehttp://www.por15.com/uploads/files/chips2.jpg

that's the thing i don't get, people are just so biased because it's a triumph instead of a japanese bike, if suzuki made the speed four, the media would've shaZam! themselves, but instead, they just pass it off as a bargain bike cause it's british, i don't know many other "standards" you can stand up on the highway in 3rd gear

tt-I think you missed the point of the article. They said it WASN'T a budget bike, but had initially included it because of its price. Once they realized how much better a bike it was (I think the author said it was in the first 10 minutes of riding) they removed it from the budget article and gave it its own peice.

They praised it highly, actually.

News:

Why the desire to upgrade to a 600?