Quote from: rexpepper651 on July 11, 2014, 03:45:27 PM

Quote from: cbrfxr67 on July 10, 2014, 02:22:09 PM
www.ride2die.eu/r2d.com/index.html

**graphic - warning,..

thank you. i have lost all interest in riding my motorcycle now...

If MC's where not dangerous, there would be no allure to them, yes you can stay on the porch and never run down the street with the big dogs, to me MC's are life not death, live life, run with the big dogs 

Amen to that Steve. You reminded me of this:

those pictures are really icky-- but the website is a good thing. Wear your damn gear! ALL of that road rash could have been avoided if the gear was worn.

The impacts......... well.......... those are unavoidable, RIP Patrick.

Quote from: AnonRider on July 11, 2014, 06:53:23 PMThe impacts......... well.......... those are unavoidable, RIP Patrick.

Unavoidable....what if Pat had looked in his mirrors?

only gear im missing is the pants. should be here in a couple days.

Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on July 11, 2014, 07:29:16 PM

Quote from: AnonRider on July 11, 2014, 06:53:23 PMThe impacts......... well.......... those are unavoidable, RIP Patrick.

Unavoidable....what if Pat had looked in his mirrors?

What ifs are a slippery slope, but what if the driver of the car had paid attention to the f*cking road?  I fail to understand how accidentally killing a man off the road can get you serious time (usually at least a full year in prison), but doing so with a 2-ton weapon on the road can get you a $40 traffic ticket.

"Ordinary care" is a farce, because your "ordinary" driver is a distracted driver.  If you kill on the road, no amount of legal BS should keep you from doing time because of your negligence.  There's no justice in saying "well, most other people fail to see motorcycles/bicyclists, so you didn't do anything wrong, and here's your ticket have a nice day."  Failing to see something that is absolutely visible implies negligence to me.

And how hit and runs don't jump to 2nd degree murder/voluntary manslaughter is beyond my understanding.

Quote from: DoktoroKiu on July 14, 2014, 06:19:21 AM

Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on July 11, 2014, 07:29:16 PM

Quote from: AnonRider on July 11, 2014, 06:53:23 PMThe impacts......... well.......... those are unavoidable, RIP Patrick.

Unavoidable....what if Pat had looked in his mirrors?

What ifs are a slippery slope, but what if the driver of the car had paid attention to the f*cking road?  I fail to understand how accidentally killing a man off the road can get you serious time (usually at least a full year in prison), but doing so with a 2-ton weapon on the road can get you a $40 traffic ticket.

"Ordinary care" is a farce, because your "ordinary" driver is a distracted driver.  If you kill on the road, no amount of legal BS should keep you from doing time because of your negligence.  There's no justice in saying "well, most other people fail to see motorcycles/bicyclists, so you didn't do anything wrong, and here's your ticket have a nice day."  Failing to see something that is absolutely visible implies negligence to me.

And how hit and runs don't jump to 2nd degree murder/voluntary manslaughter is beyond my understanding.

Everything you mentioned is why the MSF teaches having an Escape Path...  http://msf-usa.org/downloads/BRCHandbook.pdf

"You want to have an escape path that is open and allows you to avoid a collision. An escape path can be in front of you, to the right, or to the left. Escape paths can be within your lane, in the next lane over, on a shoulder or median, or even off the road if conditions permit."
And....."RiderRadar is about looking ahead, to the sides, and behind in the rear view mirrors."

Pat was turning left into the Palouse Winery, I am assuming he was waiting for a break in oncoming traffic to make his left, otherwise he wouldn't have been stopped on the Highway. The only way he wouldn't have had an Escape Path was if there was a car directly in front of him, and he was too close to it go around. I always figured he was preoccupied with the oncoming traffic to check his mirrors? This is why I say if he had been watching his mirrors he may have had an opportunity to goose the DL650 and get out of harms way. Obviously we all know the outcome and hindsight is 20/20, watching the rear view mirrors while stopped is one of the Basic Survival Skills taught by the MSF and has personally saved my ass more than once over the years.

Quote from: Suzuki Stevo link=topic=67607.msg814536#msg814536
Everything you mentioned is why the MSF teaches having an Escape Path... url=http://msf-usa.org/downloads/BRCHandbook.pdf]http://msf-usa.org/downloads/BRCHandbook.pdf[/url]

"You want to have an escape path that is open and allows you to avoid a collision. An escape path can be in front of you, to the right, or to the left. Escape paths can be within your lane, in the next lane over, on a shoulder or median, or even off the road if conditions permit."
And....."RiderRadar is about looking ahead, to the sides, and behind in the rear view mirrors."

Pat was turning left into the Palouse Winery, I am assuming he was waiting for a break in oncoming traffic to make his left, otherwise he wouldn't have been stopped on the Highway. The only way he wouldn't have had an Escape Path was if there was a car directly in front of him, and he was too close to it go around. I always figured he was preoccupied with the oncoming traffic to check his mirrors? This is why I say if he had been watching his mirrors he may have had an opportunity to goose the DL650 and get out of harms way. Obviously we all know the outcome and hindsight is 20/20, watching the rear view mirrors while stopped is one of the Basic Survival Skills taught by the MSF and has personally saved my ass more than once over the years.

I know about the escape path (very recently took the MSF), but in heavy traffic it is sometimes difficult to keep your eye on the mirrors and I know I catch myself not watching them occasionally.  Highways suck to be stopped on, though; especially when they are dual lane and everyone does 80 even though that's 20 over and it isn't an interstate.  I had a fortunately boring incident when another (stranger) rider didn't signal to turn in the right lane and I had to slow down to 10-15 because I had no passing options.  I was watching the crap out of my rear-view then, but the drivers behind me were aware.  I usually try to keep distance between me and the car in front of me so if I have to bail I have room to get around them and hairy situations are avoided easier.

All of the awareness in the world on your part can still be for nil because of the incompetence and blatantly negligent actions of other road users.  More needs to be done to punish those who end lives on the road so people start treating the privilege of driving with the respect that it deserves.

The biggest issue for me is that I simply can't afford all of the necessary gear at the moment, not for lack of trying.

I totally advocate ATGATT, but I had to cut some corners to make it work,

I wear an AFX helmet (~$100), a FirstGear jacket (~$100), and some Icon gloves (~$50), and there is where my motorcycle specific gear stops.

The boots I have are my work boots, Bates GX-8 with a safety toe.  Riding boots, especially the likes of ones I'd get, are expensive.  I had to go with something I had readily available (read "already had"), and a pair of hard toe and 8" high leather/nylon/goretex boots get the job done infinitely better than gym shoes.  I feel comfortable using them.

And instead of a pair of motorcycle pants, I wear an oversized pair of paintball pants as overpants with jeans underneath.  Material and design wise, the paintball pants are very similar to motorcycle pants.  They are made of highly abrasion resistant materials like kevlar and ballistic nylon, are reinforced in the knees and "seat", and usually offer a small degree of padding in the knees and hips.  They are made for one thing and one thing only: sliding.  Granted, that sliding is mostly on grass/dirt/turf, but a good pair of pants can hold up to years of abuse in this manner.  If I can get one slide on pavement with them, I'll take it, and I know they can do it.
A good pair of overpants would be over $100, I found my pants locally on closeout for less than half that.
I wear them knowing full well they have insufficient padding and aren't designed specifically for the road, but I have confidence they will prevent me from getting road rash and until I can get myself a real pair of riding pants I think they'll do just fine.


Saw this on another forum, it certainly justifies the cost of motorcycle gear...

  nice find watcher

Quote from: DoktoroKiu on July 11, 2014, 06:12:12 AM
Man, that picture of the guy on the back of that truck trailer...

I don't know why, but that one creeps me out the most.

Me too!

It's kind of "Haunting", I guess would be the right word for it.  I have 3 family members and 2 friends that are Local and Federal Law Enforcement so I've seen quite a bit of creepy accident pics, but something about the guy on the back of the tractor trailer freaks me out as well... Creepy.....

Quote from: Watcher on July 15, 2014, 02:04:48 PM
The biggest issue for me is that I simply can't afford all of the necessary gear at the moment, not for lack of trying.

I totally advocate ATGATT, but I had to cut some corners to make it work,

But you know what the difference between you and some others are??

You  (1) see the need, (2) are buying stuff little by little, (3) have 4 times the protection than many squids typically wear.  You sound like the type of person that will pick up things as you have spare cash and that's good.  It's true, it's expensive.

When you look at the accident statistics, you can really reduce your chances of an accident  dramatically by:

* Wearing (at least) a helmet.

* Taking and MSF course (They are free here in PA - paid for by a portion of the motorcycle licensing fees). It's almost dumb not to take one here in PA.  When I began riding again after about 15 years "off".  I re-took the Basic-2 Rider Course again for a refresher. Best thing I ever did.  Lots of experienced riders there too. Some take it every few years.

* Not having a case of beer / 27 glasses of wine, 40 shots of Jack and then deciding to ride home.

* Going the speed limit (and watching everyone else on the road).

I mean... look at it this way:  A few months ago, After cleaning the entire garage, I couldn't find my welders helmet.  Did I just squint my eyes and begin welding / doing the frame work I was doing on the car?  No. 

Sometimes you just need the correct gear.  I had an old set of goggles (non-auto dimming) - it was a bit of a hassle not having a flip up mask and auto dimming BUT, I was careful using the minimum amount of protection.  Would I weld for an entire day like that?  Probably not.  (And yes, I found the helmet in the basement where I moved it.  Doh....

I think the people who do the "stuff" above really increase their chances of a fatal accident. So when you look at , you're not doing that bad.

Also,  Check Craigslist for Motorcycle Gear.  You'd be amazed at how many people order online , get something too small or big and then sell a year later after they've forgotten to return it.

You can also find some decent "lightly used stuff as well".  Such as the new rider who buys ALL BLUE gear to match their new Ninja 250 and then they go out and buy a Neon Green Gixxer 8 months later and don't want to wear blue gear riding their new green bike.

I found a set of Puma Grand Prix's a year ago (Originally a $300+ pair of boots) that were BRAND NEW and still in the box.  $75. How can you beat that?    I already had a pair of G.P. 1000's  and a pair of Puma Brutales but when I saw them, I went right over and picked them up for a spare pair.

I also found my first Icon Armored Textile Jacket (which I still own) that was under a year old  and worn a handful of times (Red) that I paid $50 for when the owner bought a Harley and said "I'm never wearing that jacket on a Road King". It's still like brand new..

I'm not saying go out and buy someones used underwear - I draw the line at "outer wear"   ... But you can find some good deals on a budget if you keep your eyes open.

Quote from: GS4me on July 15, 2014, 03:23:12 PM

* Taking and MSF course (They are free here in PA - paid for by a portion of the motorcycle licensing fees). It's almost dumb not to take one here in PA.  When I began riding again after about 15 years "off".  I re-took the Basic-2 Rider Course again for a refresher. Best thing I ever did.  Lots of experienced riders there too. Some take it every few years.



Also,  Check Craigslist for Motorcycle Gear.  You'd be amazed at how many people order online , get something too small or big and then sell a year later after they've forgotten to return it.

I'm not saying go out and buy someones used underwear - I draw the line at "outer wear"   ... But you can find some good deals on a budget if you keep your eyes open.

The course is also free in Illinois.  There's a $20 retainer, but you get it back at the end of the course unless you want to donate it.  I actually took the course as a "walk on", got the seat of a no show, didn't cost me a dime.

I've been meaning to retake it as a refresher (especially for the laws) since my bike's been down since the season started this year, and a friend of mine was interested in taking it as well to get his endorsement.  Plus I thought it'd be fun to ride the bike to the course 


I agree completely about the used gear, but I'm a little more on the shy side when it comes to stuff being worn.  I'd rather not get a used helmet (being dropped or crashed not withstanding), I won't buy used gloves, and I definitely won't buy used footwear, but a jacket or pants I have no issue with.

Any saved $$ is a good thing.  Sadly, I stopped thinking in terms of $$ saved and instead in terms of gallons of gas put in the tank, bills paid, and groceries bought.  I've always been on a budget and always made it work, but it's been hard lately.  I just can't wait to get my bike back together and start riding so I can park the 15mpg Jeep in favor of the 50mpg GS500.

Quote from: Watcher on July 15, 2014, 04:11:43 PM

I agree completely about the used gear, but I'm a little more on the shy side when it comes to stuff being worn.  I'd rather not get a used helmet (being dropped or crashed not withstanding), I won't buy used gloves, and I definitely won't buy used footwear, but a jacket or pants I have no issue with.

Hey yeah.  I agree.  I'd never buy a used helmet either. 

You do see a lot of people selling them on C.L. though.  Besides, you really should replace them every 5 years or so anyway as the foam inside degrades and can be a safety issue.

I'm not sure I'd buy a used pair of boots - I found that new pair but I normally don't really look for them.  Glove (at least to me) are cheap enough new. 

Heck - certain pairs of $10 mechanic gloves also work well if someone is on a budget too.

Quote from: GS4me on July 15, 2014, 04:17:13 PM
Heck - certain pairs of $10 mechanic gloves also work well if someone is on a budget too.

Knuckle protection is neither here nor there, but leather and reinforced palms are a must if you ask me.

Quote from: Watcher on July 15, 2014, 04:11:43 PM

I just can't wait to get my bike back together and start riding so I can park the 15mpg Jeep in favor of the 50mpg GS500.

I hear ya.  I bought my wife a 99 Grand Cherokee / V8 Quadra-Drive to drive in the Winters so she stops hitting every pothole with her C70 convertible.  I was doing the suspension on my car and it's raining here today so I hopped in that to run some errands.  You can actually see the gas gauge doing down in that thing!  It's still looks and drives like new but it's a killer on gas.

15MPG is right on the money!  PLUS:  IT was CRAZY HUMID so I had the A/C on today!   I think that puts me in the 13 mpg range!  Love it to death in the Winter but man that thing rips through my coffee money!

I've got a '94 Cherokee 2-door, 4x4, 5speed, 4.0L 6cyl.  I love it!  It's falling apart and not worth the $ to fix it, but the first choice for a replacement is another Cherokee 4x4 with the 4.0L.

It may be a gas guzzler, but it's 4wd is epic in the snow, it's heat blows hot, it's durable as they come, and it gets jobs done.  I basically use mine as a pickup truck with a permanent cap, and I've personally seen a Jeep with a 4.0 run with a thrown rod.  Ran like crap, wasn't firing on multiple cylinders, had a softball sized hole in the block, and was down about 5qts of oil, but still moved under it's own power!

That was a funny night.  Get a call from my friend that he's working on the Jeep and invited me over.  Apparently his brother was driving it and broke down on the side of the road, they had picked him up, pulled the truck onto a trailer, and were headed back home.
I meet them there, we unhook the Jeep, start it, drive it off the trailer, drive it into the garage, turn it off, open the hood...  Well there's your problem!  You need a new engine!

Sorry to go a bit off topic but I'm curious and too bored to google to find out. What's the process to get your motorbike license in America. In Australia (at least NSW) you need to do a 2 day training course with a test at the end. Then pass a written test at the RTA just to get your L's. Then you need to do another day of testing after 6-12 months to get onto your Red P plates. Then your stuck restricted to 90kph for a year then 100kph for 2. And while your going through this your classified as a novice rider and your restricted to a bike that's 650 or less with a restricted power to weight ratio! It seems a bit excessive but I have to say it's kept me safe (thank god) and I now feel confident enough to control my gixxer 750


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It depends on the state, but they are all pretty similar.

In Pennsylvania, you take a written test to get your permit. On a permit, you can't have a passenger, ride at night, and you have to wear a helmet at all times. To get a full license, you either take the skills test (riding figure 8's in a parking lot, stopping using only the front brake, etc) or you can take the MSF course. Pass the motorcycle safety course, and you get your full license.

After having a full license for 2 years, you're allowed to ride without a helmet.

@pomme123

As Rich said, it varies state to state, but the general process is as he described.  In Indiana you have two options:
1) Take a written test to get your permit (no passengers, no night riding, helmet required).  Once you have your permit you can take a skills test at any time for up to a year to attempt to get your license.  The MSF instructors I had joked about how "Now you're qualified to ride in a parking lot.", as most of the skills tested involve speeds below 15-20mph.  I believe there is a required interval between attempts, and if you fail to acquire the license within a year you lose your permit (I think for a year).

2) Take the MSF course, which covers both written and skills tests and usually takes up the majority of your weekend (2-3 hours Friday night, 8-hours Saturday, 4-5 hours Sunday).  For my course we spent half the time Saturday and the whole time Sunday on a motorcycle.  You immediately get your full license after passing the MSF course.

In Indiana I don't believe there is any helmet restriction if you have a license.

Sounds like you Aussies have a bit more common sense when it comes to licensing policies.  Smart riders here use sane starter bikes and most avoid interstates/riding fast until they have some experience.  Heck, the GS500 is a very capable machine, and I have nowhere near the skill to push it to its limits.  What would I do with a 650,750, or God forbid some 1000cc monster?

I have always agreed with the saying that it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.  You will never use a 1000cc bike to its full potential on the street.  But I find this is even true in racing (at least virtual racing).  The most fun I had playing Forza II (racing simulator/game) was when I did a D-class endurance race with a miata.  By the end of that race I was pushing that (relatively) slow car to its max on every lap.  When you go for more power it becomes more about acceleration and top speed and less about your driving/cornering skill (unless you are a professional I suppose).