Has anyone swapped a valve shim and then had the shim they just put in break ?

I know Amkluttz did and so did Paragon - but wonder how many others ?

Post back, I had never heard of this on the GS500's till a few weeks ago.

Cool.
Buddha.

Just a bit of into on that:

Mine was a K&L brand shim. (Not sure if they make their shims or simply attain them from a supplier somewhere, like china).

It was ordered through a local dealership who ordered it from Parts Unlimited.

The shim had a good 2000 miles on it before failure.

We have 20 and 40 and more 000 miles on the bikes and never had a failure.

Just cos it looks hardened and they say its hardened ... well its hardened sheite maybe.

Cool.
buddha.

... sounds like a case of the new-ish Chinese 'wonder metal' known to me as "crapalloy"  lol

I buy mine from Precision Shims in Melbourne, Australia and have found them to be good. I admit that I have not done many Ks with them yet but if I remember correctly, they claim to be made in Oz and cost around AU$10 plus freight.

I am happy so far.

You can find them at www.precisionshims.com.au

Macka

I also got mine from a local dealer who didn't have any in stock and had to order them. Not sure what brand.

The bucket still seems to have tension on it so it doesn't seem likely that it failed.


-Andy

I got my shims from a local Suzuki and Kawa dealer i measured the thickness of the shim but after putting them in the clearance that they gave me were narrower than the thickness that I calculated them to give me...

ex.
Original shim: 0.72
Clearance: 0.11
New Shim: 0.75
New Clearance: 0.6

Is that a sign of crap shims because I'd much rather buy OEMs than have them break

The bucket will ahve tension on it even if the shim has broken in 1/2 and disappeared.
Thickness calculated vs whatever - well your aritmetis and the number on the shim etc are is 2 different units.
Shim thicknesses are in millimeters.
If you need a 250 shim, it means your shim should be 2.50 mm thick.

You have .72 ? and you need a .75 ? and they gave you something else ? What unit of measurement is that. I dont know of any measurement that will fit.
The thinnest shim is 225 (If I recall) and the fattest you can get I think is a 290 maybe. Below and above that you have way too much wear and have to start spec-ing out the head and machine it back to tolerances. Needless to say, very few people have managed to get that far on a GS (cos I've never heard of it - Maybe GSJack has - I rememeber his saying somethign about needing thinner shims than you can find - Or was it Kerry) Anyway ...

The new shims from whatever source seem to be what are getting broke and destroyed. You get a new shim lately, you're @ risk of having a crapalloy shim ...

Dunno if suzuki original shims are better ...

Cool.
Buddha.

Flame, having trouble understanding the measurements given without units and further explanation I suppose.  However, if you had a very tight clearance, you would have to use very thin feeler gauge to measure it.  It is a very possible, and a simple mistake to force the thinner gauges into a gap they technically shouldn't fit in.  Meaning that the gap you thought you had, is actually smaller than it was bc the thin gauge was 'forced' in, and now your before and after clearances don't match with the size shim you replaced.  For these cases, its best to fit a 'test shim' in there to measure the gap more accurately with a larger feeler gauge, which is harder to mistakenly force in the gap.  A test shim is simply one that is several size thinner than what was previously in there.

- Bboy

Quote from: The Buddha on September 10, 2014, 11:11:40 AM..........................................The thinnest shim is 225 (If I recall) and the fattest you can get I think is a 290 maybe. Below and above that you have way too much wear and have to start spec-ing out the head and machine it back to tolerances. Needless to say, very few people have managed to get that far on a GS (cos I've never heard of it - Maybe GSJack has - I rememeber his saying somethign about needing thinner shims than you can find - Or was it Kerry) Anyway ...................................

Cool.
Buddha.

It was I Buddha, the thinnest shim is a 215 and I was down to that before 80k miles on the tighter exhaust valve on my 97 GS with no where to go.  Twas probably fortunate that I totalled it at 80k miles.     When the tighter of the two exhaust valves started the same pattern at about 30k miles on my 02 GS I went to my wider .003-.005" (.08-.13mm) exhaust valve setting and now at over 100k miles the smallest shim in it is a 245.   

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GSvalvelogs_zps9ef7236a.jpg

SO SORRY that last post was off of the top of my head and I was thinking in terms of clearance for some odd reason
here are the real sizes that I had in the bike...

Old Shim Sizes

Right Intake: 2.62
Clearance: 0.10

Left Intake: 2.62
Clearance: 0.10

Right Exhaust: 2.75
Clearance: 0.11

Left Intake: 2.74
Clearance: 0.13

New Shim Sizes and Clearances

Right Intake: 2.65
Clearance: 0.04

Left Intake: 2.65
Clearance: 0.03

Right Exhaust: 2.80
Clearance: 0.04

Left Intake: 2.80
Clearance: 0.05


Not only did the calculation not match up with the shim differences but it was so strange getting the same measurement time and time again after replacing them and trying to re-install them
Any idea?

If you have a look at the link to Precision Shims that I gave you, you will see that they can supply shims down to 1.40mm (size 140) in 29.5mm diameter.

As for forcing a thin feeler strip (feeler gauge in Oz) that "should not really go" between the shim and lobe, good luck with that. The thin feeler strip will buckle and warp long before you can force it into a tight gap. Ask me how I know! 

Macka

You remove a shim, the bucket will will with oil. You wont get a decent reading if you swap a shim till atleast you turn the motor a few times. Measure and calculate and swap it and you're done.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: onedeathbyflame on September 10, 2014, 07:30:41 PM
SO SORRY that last post was off of the top of my head and I was thinking in terms of clearance for some odd reason
here are the real sizes that I had in the bike...

Old Shim Sizes

Right Intake: 2.62
Clearance: 0.10

Left Intake: 2.62
Clearance: 0.10

Right Exhaust: 2.75
Clearance: 0.11

Left Intake: 2.74
Clearance: 0.13

New Shim Sizes and Clearances

Right Intake: 2.65
Clearance: 0.04

Left Intake: 2.65
Clearance: 0.03

Right Exhaust: 2.80
Clearance: 0.04

Left Intake: 2.80
Clearance: 0.05


Not only did the calculation not match up with the shim differences but it was so strange getting the same measurement time and time again after replacing them and trying to re-install them
Any idea?

That's good to know Macka, Suzuki Shop Manual shows shims from 215-310 same as I list on my valve log linked above and a quick check of an online dealer shows replacement shims from 215-255 are available.  A typical aftermarket supplier like C-R-C shows shims from 230-300 available.

When my 97 GS got down to a 215 minimum shim I was considering getting some shims ground down to a smaller size but that bike was totaled and replaced before that occured.  I used only Suzuki OEM shims on my 2 GSs.

But how far do we go?  When I first started using my wider .08-.13 mm exhaust valve clearance spec I warned others to keep it down to close to the Suzuki .08 mm max if they did a lot of redlining, I rarely had occasion to go over 9-9.5k rpm.  Have seen pictures of a GS engine destroyed by a thrown shim and now we have examples of aftermarket shims breaking and doing serious engine damage.

Don't think I'd go too much below the Suzuki 215 min shim size unless I kept the gaps down to Suzuki's .03-.08 mm size?  What do you think about using a 140 shim, I wouldn't even consider it myself.

+1

To what Buddha just said.  If you do need to check gap after shim change be sure to turn the engine over a few revs to squeeze out oil under the shim before checking.

Quote from: gsJack on September 11, 2014, 06:00:49 AM
+1

to squeeze out oil under the shim before checking.

Wait.... There isn't suppose to be oil in the bucket when the shim is in?

Quote from: onedeathbyflame on September 11, 2014, 08:00:32 AM

Quote from: gsJack on September 11, 2014, 06:00:49 AM
+1

to squeeze out oil under the shim before checking.

Wait.... There isn't suppose to be oil in the bucket when the shim is in?

You're confusing 2 different things.
Oil in the bucket is not bad at all ... in fact it is good.

However you will not get a measurement till you get it out, cos the shim can float on top of the trapped oil till you get all these things moving and rotating and squeezing out.
Cool.
Buddha.

All of the oil does not squeeze out...A microscopic thin layer stays in there between the metal parts...but if you don't rotate the engine a couple times, then the oil does not squeeze down to microscopic, and will throw off your measurements / calculations...

Cookie

Quote from: The Buddha on September 11, 2014, 09:20:17 AM

Quote from: onedeathbyflame on September 11, 2014, 08:00:32 AM

Quote from: gsJack on September 11, 2014, 06:00:49 AM
+1

to squeeze out oil under the shim before checking.

Wait.... There isn't suppose to be oil in the bucket when the shim is in?

You're confusing 2 different things.
Oil in the bucket is not bad at all ... in fact it is good.

However you will not get a measurement till you get it out, cos the shim can float on top of the trapped oil till you get all these things moving and rotating and squeezing out.
Cool.
Buddha.

Aha ok this makes much more sense thanks for clearing the misconception everyone 

I agree with you Jack, certainly about keeping the tolerances within Suzuki spec if you are going to "red-line" the engine. Mine has never been over 9,500-10,000 and that was only a few times when I was giving it some curry around the Phillip Island GP track. At that time I was running the standard specs. Since then I have changed to your recommended wider specs (actually a couple of points wider still, but JUST). Normally I stay under 6-7000 rpm.

On the subject of using a 140 shim, I don't know. It is a high reving engine so I would have to think about it. Many car engines use shims around that size but generally they are red-lined around half of the GS red-line. If you were a rider like me who generally stays in the lower half of the rev range and the specs were within Suzuki recommendations I would think that you would not have too much to lose. If it went "bang" on a big rev, well, it was due for a rebuild anyway, otherwise you would not have needed the thin shims in the first place!

A little common sense can save a lot of heartache.   

Macka