To start off, I'm not an overly aggressive driver or anything like that. Nor do I mind sharing the road with our distant two-wheeled cousins, but this is just absolutely absurd. First, a diagram to show the situation:

(click to make bigger)


Blue Blocks = Other Cars
Orange Block = My Car
Solid White Arrows = Direction of vehicle
Black/White Arrows = Direction of traffic
Green Line/Arrow = Bicyclist

I was approaching the intersection depicted above on a green light. There is no turn arrow, just a regular traffic light. I got to the intersection slightly before the first car coming in the opposite direction, but ultimately we ended up in the intersection at the same time (both going left from opposite directions). There were maybe 5-6 cars behind the car that was turning left from the opposite direction, and traffic was already moving.

The bicyclist went between those cars and the curb and decided to cross the intersection while I was in the middle of my turn. In other words, my car was already at better than a 45° angle and I was already completely in the intersection when the bicyclist entered the intersection. I ended up having to slam on my brakes to keep from hitting the guy - he had to swerve away from the front bumper of my car. Keep in mind, this is a fairly small street, and I wasn't going all that fast - at most I was doing 10mph through the turn.

When he passed my driver's window I looked out at him and said "Really dude?? Really??". I didn't yell profanity or anything like that - it was just loud enough so he could hear me. He said something back but I couldn't hear what it was.

So that's all well and good but it gets better. I had been driving along for about 10 minutes before I finally reached my destination - about 3-4 miles from the intersection where the above took place.

As I'm backing in my car into a parking place, this fucker on the bicycle appears out of nowhere and is right up next to my car - same guy from the intersection. Apparently, not only did he turn around, (since we were going in completely different directions), he ALSO followed me several MILES to confront me. What the HELL?

So anyway, he got right up next to my car and kept saying "What's the problem here? What's the problem here?". Taken by surprise, all I could think to say was "Dude are you SERIOUSLY confronting me in my vehicle? What is wrong with you??"

This went on, back and forth, for about a minute before I finally said "You need to move out of the way." and began moving my car into the parking space. He complied but then sat there and waited for me to finish parking and get out. As I was getting out, I said "You know, there's a reason why people don't respect bicycle riders." at which point he continued to confront me and ask me "You know I get this a lot, I don't understand, what is the problem here?" to which I finally responded with "You want to know what the problem is? The problem is you have so much time on your hands that you followed me from ALL the way back there just to confront me. How pathetic." and then walked off. I guess he couldn't come up with anything witty to say because all I heard from him as I walked away was "Psh..."

Am I alone in thinking this guy is out of his damned mind? What if I had been somebody different? It's REALLY not a good idea to approach someone in their vehicle. I don't know how laws are in other states, but I know here that would be considered an "aggressive" action or "acting as the aggressor" - especially considering how far the guy followed me.

That's not to say I WOULD have done anything unless it was absolutely necessary to defend myself, but still.

I guess one day the guy is going to seriously screw up and do that to someone who isn't as calm as I am.

I should ALSO mention that lane splitting is illegal in Georgia. I don't know the laws for slipping between the curb and cars when traffic is moving but I'm pretty sure that would be considered lane splitting as well.

  I cannot believe he followed you!  After everything you explained, it clearly seems like he was wrong.  When I used to ride my bicycle around town I ALWAYS did whatever I had to to stay out of the way of cars/trucks/etc.  I hate confrontation, if I was on the bicycle and made a mistake I would have said something like, "Omg man sorry my bad!!" and scooted on outta there asap.

I agree with you, ya never know what kind of people you are going to encounter nowadays... you could have been a BIGGG dude with a temper to match.  WOW people never fail to make me wonder.

I rode my bicycle in college, daily.  Many times this meant I had to ride in the road because bikes were not permitted on sidewalks on most of campus, as they didn't have bike lanes on every route.  At least in my state/city: Bicycles are to follow the rules of the road, ie. use hand signals and obey traffic signs and lights in addition to staying far to the right to allow motor vehicles to pass... it does not mean the opposite: Stay far to the right so you can pass motor vehicles! There are certain situations where it might be acceptable (doesn't make it legal), but through intersections is definitely not.  I don't know where bicyclists get this inherent entitlement of the road, without obeying traffic laws. You must take your turn in line at a vehicle intersection, and if motor vehicle traffic slows down under your speed you maintain the speed of the vehicle in front you, and to the right.  Obviously there are situations you position yourself differently to be seen and have enough room and so forth... That's also how you approach a stop sign too - get in line and wait your turn!  If anything, as a bicyclist you should follow this for your safety due to situations like the above - I wouldn't put blind faith in a vehicle to not turn left on me in an intersection, or even a vehicle heading straight from my perpendicular at a stop sign, either.  I don't trust any intersection while on my motorcycle, especially left turners, and I sure as hell wouldn't do it on a bicycle!

- Bboy

I ride my bike on the street all the time. Even though bikes are supposed to have right away, in reality, thats not the case. He was probably one of those guys that had a chip on his shoulder and just thought everyone should stop for him cause he was on a bike. You have to be a realist and yield to the  flow of traffic on a bike. He obviously didn't get that.

Quote from: iv76erson03 on September 23, 2014, 06:54:25 AM
I ride my bike on the street all the time. Even though bikes are supposed to have right away, in reality, thats not the case. He was probably one of those guys that had a chip on his shoulder and just thought everyone should stop for him cause he was on a bike. You have to be a realist and yield to the  flow of traffic on a bike. He obviously didn't get that.

Since when do bikes have the right of way?  They are not pedestrians, and should act and be treated like another car on the road.

Horses have right of way, didn't know bikes did? !

... but. . Looking at diagram (now it's loaded on phone) .. strictly speaking .. in that situ. .. the bike had right of way, you were turning across his path. .. a bike is small and could/does get lost to view beside vehicles. ..
To preserve himself the bicyclist probably should expect such a situ to happen and be more cautious (as we with motorbikes do?)... sorry Kij but your bad in the eyes of the law there.. if it had been a huge bus would you have gone across?   ... the dude following you though. .. not smart! ... maybe 50 yards or something but that far is nuts! ..

I've seen a few riders like that though. .. blues bros syndrome" I'm on a mission from god" .. lol

I think Janx is right.  I ride to work sometimes in retarded Houston traffic.  I do ride pretty aggressively sometimes and although I would have either made sure I could make the intersection without impeding you or slowed up so you could pass, either way whatever said wouldn't cause me to follow you miles, to come up with some lameness.  Really surprised dude would follow you so far to blab like that.

I went around two thug wanna bes one time on sidewalk and one yelled in my ear pretty loud.  I rode on and the rage came on me to where I went back and confronted him.  He said he didn't know what I was talking about.   Could have been a bad situation since it was 2 on 1 but by that time I was berserker mad. heheh

Quote from: Janx101 on September 23, 2014, 11:06:22 AM
... but. . Looking at diagram (now it's loaded on phone) .. strictly speaking .. in that situ. .. the bike had right of way, you were turning across his path. .. a bike is small and could/does get lost to view beside vehicles. ..
To preserve himself the bicyclist probably should expect such a situ to happen and be more cautious (as we with motorbikes do?)... sorry Kij but your bad in the eyes of the law there.. if it had been a huge bus would you have gone across?   ... the dude following you though. .. not smart! ... maybe 50 yards or something but that far is nuts! ..

I've seen a few riders like that though. .. blues bros syndrome" I'm on a mission from god" .. lol

Sorry, no way. That bike was passing cars on the right. He was not in a legal lane. Had he been in position behind the cars he could have then followed the cars and went straight through and had right of way. According to the diagram he did not. He passed cars on the right and entered the intersection out of turn. It is NOT legal to pass on the right in the USA unless there is a legal lane to do so. Most people on the road should would fail their drivers test if they had to retake it.

Fair call pliskin. Still through traffic vs turning though?

Quote from: Janx101 on September 24, 2014, 03:44:02 PM
Fair call pliskin. Still through traffic vs turning though?

Quote from: cbrfxr67 on September 23, 2014, 01:03:34 PM
I think Janx is right.  I ride to work sometimes in retarded Houston traffic.  I do ride pretty aggressively sometimes and although I would have either made sure I could make the intersection without impeding you or slowed up so you could pass, either way whatever said wouldn't cause me to follow you miles, to come up with some lameness.  Really surprised dude would follow you so far to blab like that.

I went around two thug wanna bes one time on sidewalk and one yelled in my ear pretty loud.  I rode on and the rage came on me to where I went back and confronted him.  He said he didn't know what I was talking about.   Could have been a bad situation since it was 2 on 1 but by that time I was berserker mad. heheh

Let me be a little more clear about the situation. The car that was turning left in the opposite direction was holding up traffic long enough for me to make my left turn. We (the car turning left in the opposite direction) were in the intersection at the same time. The cars behind the car turning left previously mentioned could not proceed until he finished his turn. There was nothing for me to yield to as there was no on-coming traffic or "through traffic" as you call it.

The cars that were behind the fellow that was turning left in the opposite direction had already began slowly moving forward, as 2 other cars had turned left previously. It is at this moment that the bicyclist slipped between the moving vehicles and the curb on the right side and proceeded straight through the intersection. He did NOT slow down at all, and blew through the intersection. Given the speed at which he was traveling, he must have come from way back and barely slowed down as he passed those other vehicles in the same lane.

To clarify further, and to make it more clear what this nimrod did, the bicyclist, myself, and the opposing left-turning vehicle were in the intersection at the same time. This happened ONLY because the bicyclist passed moving vehicles between them and the curb to "get ahead" of everyone else.

It would not be legal to perform such an action on a motorcycle, and as such, is equally illegal to do with a bicycle. Lane splitting is illegal in Georgia, but I would imagine that even if it was, this situation would still constitute a violation of traffic laws. You should not be able to pass moving vehicles in order to proceed through an intersection that would otherwise be impossible in a car.

Quote from: Janx101 on September 23, 2014, 11:06:22 AM
... but. . Looking at diagram (now it's loaded on phone) .. strictly speaking .. in that situ. .. the bike had right of way, you were turning across his path. .. a bike is small and could/does get lost to view beside vehicles. ..
To preserve himself the bicyclist probably should expect such a situ to happen and be more cautious (as we with motorbikes do?)... sorry Kij but your bad in the eyes of the law there.. if it had been a huge bus would you have gone across?   ... the dude following you though. .. not smart! ... maybe 50 yards or something but that far is nuts! ..

I've seen a few riders like that though. .. blues bros syndrome" I'm on a mission from god" .. lol

I just saw this, but the above post should help clarify. If it had been a bus, the bus would not have been able to proceed through the intersection due to the other car turning in the opposite direction. While traffic was moving forward, it was only as the "slack" was being taken up from those other two cars turning left. They were not moving THROUGH the intersection at the time I entered the intersection, as the last left-turning vehicle was holding them back.

The only reason the bicyclist was able to proceed through the intersection is because he passed 5-6 cars that were creeping forward (2-5mph most likely). He passed these moving vehicles in the same lane and to the right. It is not legal to pass someone using the same lane. The only reason he was able to pass these cars was because he was physically smaller.

Quote from: iv76erson03 on September 23, 2014, 06:54:25 AM
I ride my bike on the street all the time. Even though bikes are supposed to have right away, in reality, thats not the case. He was probably one of those guys that had a chip on his shoulder and just thought everyone should stop for him cause he was on a bike. You have to be a realist and yield to the  flow of traffic on a bike. He obviously didn't get that.

Bicycles, when occupying a lane, are to obey all traffic laws, including stop signs, right of ways, yield, and so-on. This is for their protection just as much as it is for legal reasons. Why should they not obey traffic laws? They're using the lanes as if they were a vehicle. Using that logic, then motorcyclists should have their own special rules as well, and people should "yield to motorcycles" too. The only difference between a motorcycle and a bicycle is one is driven by an engine and weighs more. You'll be just as dead if someone runs over you on a motorcycle versus on a bicycle. Neither offers any more inherent protection, other than one has more ability to "get out of the way quickly".

..... 6 paragraphs deleted before posting. ... cos I can't be bothered arguing the niceties of road use and such. keep your foot on the gas next time and turn them into a roadrash pizza... see what the law says when you go to court. .. I'm done and out

Quote from: Janx101 on September 25, 2014, 09:48:04 PM
..... 6 paragraphs deleted before posting. ... cos I can't be bothered arguing the niceties of road use and such. keep your foot on the gas next time and turn them into a roadrash pizza... see what the law says when you go to court. .. I'm done and out

I still don't think you grasp what happened, no offense or anything.

He broke the law in order to proceed through the intersection. That is the bottom line. It is against the law to pass a vehicle in the manner in which he did.

There is a reason why it is illegal to do things like what he did - it's a hazard to other drivers and to the bicyclists themselves. If he ends up dead because of his impudence, that's his own fault.

Perhaps if you lived where I do, and saw the way these assholes ride their bicycles, you'd understand why there are laws in place. It's stupid and reckless to challenge a 1-2 ton vehicle when you'e riding 20lbs worth of aluminum.

To put it in perspective, if he had done the same thing on a motorcycle he likely would have been arrested.

 ...  I'm really not trying to flame anything up, just clearing it up because I know this is a concept often misunderstood - I saw it nearly everyday on campus, even though we literally had classes that covered this stuff - you chose to take them, so I took advantage of that (got free bike lights and bike maintenance stuff, so why not?!).  In the situation above, the rider could not know if traffic was slowed/stopped for a hazard, pedestrian,  or whatever  - that's why he is wrong to go through the intersection passing on the right (that's in addition to the obvious situation of not being seen by potential turning traffic because he was hidden by cars from further back).  He should not pass the first car of his direction in the intersection.  (ETA: Bicycle safety class took this one step further for this situation - they recommended checking to be seen, get in line with traffic, and wait till traffic flow resumed to proceed with traffic, then return to the right hand side position as traffic returns to speed higher than you can maintain.)

Right of way laws are actually very few - and they mostly only refer to stop sign intersections, which tell you to take your turn other than for pedestrians, who always have the right of way - and it doesn't matter if they use a crosswalk or not, they still have the right of way (though they can get a ticket for not using one if they are available within a reasonable distance).  Other right of way laws are for unmarked intersections and emergency vehicles.  Any more right of way laws that may exist in certain areas are marked by yield signs and so forth - other than that, I can't think of others that exist.  Bicyclist do not have any inherent right of way laws.  If another road user does not follow them, you let them go to avoid an accident - THAT is why you can get a ticket for 'failure to avoid an accident' even though it happened because someone else didn't follow the rules of the road like the above - seems pretty silly, but it happens especially with misunderstood laws and gray area situations when its apparent either side could have avoided the accident just paying attention regardless of the rules of the road.



- Bboy

Quote from: Kijona on September 19, 2014, 05:41:32 AM
I should ALSO mention that lane splitting is illegal in Georgia. I don't know the laws for slipping between the curb and cars when traffic is moving but I'm pretty sure that would be considered lane splitting as well.

as a cyclist myself we have to follow rules as for cars. what he did was in the wrong for sure. that coupled with the eventual aggressive driver will hurt him. not saying youre in the wrong by any means. not in the wrongat all. we just have to ride like the guy or gal driving the car is insane. kinda like we do with the motos

Since I've had the GS, I've stopped riding so much (kind a of a pity in a way, lost a lot of stamina..or maybe that's just from losing testosterone). I am, however, a bicyclist.

A couple years ago I was riding on Broadway just south of 14th St. I looked up and saw a courier I was in a movie with. we would together in the RIGHT lane for a couple blocks. He was on the inside, I was on the outside. As we rode I noticed a rider on a much older bike than mine on the opposite side of the street.

After the couple blocks he turned rght and I continued down Broadway. Around 9th street, a cabbie shoots over and cuts me off against the curb. Cyclist in the city are used to this as cabbies will cut anybody off to pick up a fare. There was no fare however. I am fairly vocal about letting people know when they make dangerous maneuvers around bikes and try to be constructive about it instead of just cursing and yelling. This cabbies rolls down his window and makes some curse or another, yelling not to touch his cab again. I'm like "wha?"; he speeds off.

The way my brain works, I try to figure out what figure out conflict, particularly where I'm acused. I shoot up to the next light and ask the guy what he was talking about. He snaps that "I know what I did" and does that weird European spit thing.

I am American, I don't play spitting. Now I am annoyed. He drives off and as I ride further down I am getting more agitated about the incident. I then decide to catch him. I shoot up to see turns left on Houston (pronounced Howston in NYC). I go one street further down and head left then back to Houston, which mean I'm not only catching up to the guy, I'm covering a greater distance to do so (adrenaline is fun!). I catch the guy about a mile away  I go to ask him what he claims I did - he says I hit his car and pulls away from me again.

I think about it, am still unsatisfied and catch him AGAIN. He says "you are having good fitness". I ask where he was hit, what side, he says left, I say I was on the RIGHT side of the street on the outside, that I couldn't have. He claims he knows "what he saw". I catch up to him again to take picture of his license plate to report him. I never did, though I should have. The guy had fares pretty much the entire time including when he made the first dangerous, illegal maneuver to cut me off.

I know cyclists do dumb stuff. Just the other night a guy wearing all black with no lights IN THE RAIN almost found out what the left front bumper of my car felt like when he ran a light at which point he curses at ME. Adrenaline and fear of injury can cause one to react in a way that is not logical, despite being in the wrong...or because of it.

Cyclists, drivers and pedestrians ( THE WORST ) all spend too much time thinking about where they want to go instead of what others are doign around them.

Quote from: Kijona on September 26, 2014, 07:17:42 AM

He broke the law

There is a reason why it is illegal to do things like what he did - it's a hazard to other drivers and to the bicyclists themselves.
If he ends up dead because of his impudence, that's his own fault.

To put it in perspective, if he had done the same thing on a motorcycle he likely would have been arrested.

I understand this perfectly. You were attacked by a bicycle Twinkie.

There are 3 kinds of bike riders out there...
1.) Gutter bikers.
2.) Mountain bikers.
3.) Roadies.

Roadies are by far the most arrogant and in effect, dangerous on public streets.
BTW; I was an IMBA rider & member since about 92 when Tim Blumenthal started the whole thing so I might be a tad prejudice against the vile arrogance of (some) Roadies. <cough-cough>

International Mountain Bicycling Association


Glad you survived the attack Kijona.
My thoughts are with you brother. 

Quote from: Electrojake on September 28, 2014, 08:56:02 PM

Quote from: Kijona on September 26, 2014, 07:17:42 AM

He broke the law

There is a reason why it is illegal to do things like what he did - it's a hazard to other drivers and to the bicyclists themselves.
If he ends up dead because of his impudence, that's his own fault.

To put it in perspective, if he had done the same thing on a motorcycle he likely would have been arrested.

I understand this perfectly. You were attacked by a bicycle Twinkie.

There are 3 kinds of bike riders out there...
1.) Gutter bikers.
2.) Mountain bikers.
3.) Roadies.

Urban settings include a few more types.

Of particular annoyance:

Urban restaurant delivery people
Urban bike share users

These people are very bane of bicycle existence.