Hi Guys. I have an odd question i've been meaning to ask for awhile. Like many of you i love that the GS500 is quick through the twisties.Many times i've kept up with -or even humbled- bigger bikes  .It s so cool that way

However it has one handling trait that bugs me quite a lot. It goes like this:
  When initially tipping into corners the bike feels great.It gives great control and feedback with reasonably light steering feel.
Then at about 10-15DEG (angle of lean) it starts losing feel while the leverage required to steer ,quickly decreases.
By the time it gets to 20-30DEG lean angle (a guess) the steering feel goes the other way- it gets heavy ,inaccurate and needs LOTS more steering input.It also feels like the wants to drop if i dont correct a lot! The bike will grip at these angles.I can throw it in and guess how much to lean it. But if i guess wrong or -more often- i guess the corner shape wrong it feels very crude and clumsy trying to correct it.

Ive tried different tire pressure settings,different steering angles (by dropping the front of the bike and/or raising the back),and tried a couple of different brands of tires.I've even tried various riding styles just in case it was me!
I found that hanging off the bike a little delays the onset of the problem.Sharpening the steering helped a certain amount.Keeping the tires fresh helps only somewhat.
Other than these i've found nothing that solves it fully :-( .
Am i expecting too much?Are all GS500's like this?Is there a cure?
I know I've ridden bikes that were **much** more controlable at radical lean angles so i know it's possible!

I've got to the stage where i'm considering a wider lower profile front tire.My theory is that the wider tread will give more support while leaned over.But this might not be true, because the wider tire is meant for a wider rim.Putting it on the GS500 rim might make it similar in shape to the original tire anyway.

Any suggestions.....?

What brand, type and size tyres are on it now?

I guess I am not sure what you are saying, Ron.  I do get the 'heavier' feeling in a deep turn where it takes a bit more effort to push the handlebars, but not extremely so.  I do NOT get the feeling that the bike wants to drop unless I am going to slow for the angle I am on.  Could that be the issue?  I am a relatively new rider, and when I first started riding I found that I greatly underestimated the ability of the bike to turn on dry pavement.  As such, I would be going much slower than I "needed" to, or at least, I could do.  I replaced my rear tire recently with a stock Battlax BT45, and that made me a lot more comfortable.  I am not sure it made the bike better, except in improving the rider's confidence.

I have replaced the fork springs and the rear shock, and that has made my bike behave a LOT better in the turns.  The tires feel like they never leave the road and feel stickier.  But, is that truly the bike or me....or some combination of the two?  I know the rear shock change has made a definite improvement and change in the bike's handling.  The front springs are less dramatic, but I think they are also an improvement. 

I am not sure either of these will help what you are describing.  Maybe a more experienced rider here can chime in.  It would definitely help if you filled in the blanks about:

Suspension: Stock front and rear?
Tires: as Janx asked.  Brand, type, size, wear?
Your experience level as a rider in general, and miles on the GS.

The best handling GS I owned had an 80 series front BT45 vs stock 70

I also experience the same feeling you are describing....I think it's the stock handlebars...it won't allow you to easily get your body in the correct position like clipons. In my experience from owning 4 GS500s the bike is inconsistent...one day the suspension feels good and balanced depending on temp etc., then the next day it feels like the back is too stiff or the front too soft. I think the problem is the front...no matter what I do oil/springs it doesn't last long in terms of feel.

The GS500 is never going to handle like a true Sport Bike. The wider bars and body position won't allow it...not to mention the suspension. That being said your description sounds like you are too slow into the turns...but I may be wrong.

Handling wise though, I have noticed a lean point where it seems to tip in a bit quicker? .. and I reckon that yes of course your steering weight/feel on any bike will vary somewhat with leans and cornering, direction/drag sideways/speed/road camber etc are all going to put their contributions in.... especially if you might have been familiar with a bike that had a steering damper?

You watch some footage of the IOMTT when they are cornering!, sometimes the guys are having to be REALLY physical with the bars! We not that extreme of course but the effects remain similar if scaled down.

If everything were smooth and glassy and SAME the whole ride. .. it would take some of the fun away!?!

If the steering was catching internally or sticking somewhere (lack of grease?) That would be a different matter and dangerous! But if it's more a variable weight/feel thing then to my understanding that's normal? .. I think!?

Thanks for the replies and suggestions guys! Yeah i could have described things better.I'm not good with words


First up,some info:
I've ridden dirt bikes for decades but occasionally owned road bikes.Total road bike experience over that period is only about 5yrs.I've been on the GS for 2 years exclusively now.
The bike is an '05 E (naked) model.It has high miles 90k,KM (60K miles)yet it still runs well.All critical bearings -wheels,steering head,shock linkage and swingarm- are in great condition.I'm pretty sure the frame cant be bent as it shows zero signs its been dropped.
Front suspension: Currently it's running 12.5wt oil with approx 10% stiffer springs. I'm running the rear spring near it's stiffest setting,but that's almost purely to increase the steering angle,which DOES have a little effect on the problem.Naturally i've lifted the forks to drop the front as well.
So quick summary - suspension itself has no real effect. Steering angle does have some effect
Tires: currently Pirelli sport demons in the correct stock size. I've used several sets of these plus experienced BT45's a little (when i first got the bike) and a couple of others i cant remember (a conti on the front perhaps?) In any case no matter which tires i use they dont change the handling MUCH.Tire pressure and tire newness have more effect but it's still not a lot.

*edit*  While writing this (on and off- as i said i'm slow with words! and busy) i kept researching possible solutions.I ran across several interesting tire recommendations on GS500 fan sites. One thing that intrigues me is the description of how race tires feel.Apparently the V shaping of race tires makes a bike flop from side to side.Whereas more road orientated tires are rounder giving a smooth and controlled transition from upright to full lean.
That sounds something like i'm experiencing!
Yet i wonder.I havent yet found descriptions of what a race tire feels like when they're fully leaned over.Maybe race tires actually feel good at full lean,which is opposite to what i'm experiencing. Sigh. Confusing!

Sorry for my slowness guys.Lots else going on.
I'll come back l8r and address some interesting points you've bought up

Hi Guys.
I went for another ride today.This time i tried to rule out factors that might be giving me wrong ideas,and concentrate fully on what's going on.
For example i stopped thinking about steering weight and feedback.I tried various riding styles and techniques.
In the end the result was pretty much the same.
No mater what i did there was always a point -at say 15-20 degrees of lean angle-  where the bike wants to fall quicker.At that same time the ability of the bike's steering to correct it get's dodgy.Bigger/faster steering inputs are necessary and it definitely feels less controllable.

Some thoughts on your suggestions:
Firstly i should say i'm definitely too fussy about steering weight.I need to ignore that part and just get on with riding .That said,when steering weight is removed from the equation,the loss of consistent steering control is still present.
It cant be a case of me entering corners too slow.I've tried fast and slow,it makes no difference.
It's definitely not a case of me leaning too much for the given corner speed.I've had far too much experience to be caught out by a simple issue like that.
No,this is about loss of steering control when tipped over.

My latest thoughts;
I still suspect the right choice of tires would help a lot to cure this issue.
Also i suspect the fork angle and trail need to be changed to completely eliminate it :-(

Quote from: Ron888 on December 09, 2014, 08:40:33 PM
Hi Guys. I have an odd question i've been meaning to ask for awhile. Like many of you i love that the GS500 is quick through the twisties.Many times i've kept up with -or even humbled- bigger bikes  .It s so cool that way

However it has one handling trait that bugs me quite a lot. It goes like this:
  When initially tipping into corners the bike feels great.It gives great control and feedback with reasonably light steering feel.
Then at about 10-15DEG (angle of lean) it starts losing feel while the leverage required to steer ,quickly decreases.
By the time it gets to 20-30DEG lean angle (a guess) the steering feel goes the other way- it gets heavy ,inaccurate and needs LOTS more steering input.It also feels like the wants to drop if i dont correct a lot! The bike will grip at these angles.I can throw it in and guess how much to lean it. But if i guess wrong or -more often- i guess the corner shape wrong it feels very crude and clumsy trying to correct it.

Ive tried different tire pressure settings,different steering angles (by dropping the front of the bike and/or raising the back),and tried a couple of different brands of tires.I've even tried various riding styles just in case it was me!
I found that hanging off the bike a little delays the onset of the problem.Sharpening the steering helped a certain amount.Keeping the tires fresh helps only somewhat.
Other than these i've found nothing that solves it fully :-( .
Am i expecting too much?Are all GS500's like this?Is there a cure?
I know I've ridden bikes that were **much** more controlable at radical lean angles so i know it's possible!

I've got to the stage where i'm considering a wider lower profile front tire.My theory is that the wider tread will give more support while leaned over.But this might not be true, because the wider tire is meant for a wider rim.Putting it on the GS500 rim might make it similar in shape to the original tire anyway.

Any suggestions.....?

i think you're finding the limits of the gs's suspension.

Quote from: Ron888 on December 15, 2014, 06:36:30 AM......................No mater what i did there was always a point -at say 15-20 degrees of lean angle-  where the bike wants to fall quicker.At that same time the ability of the bike's steering to correct it get's dodgy.Bigger/faster steering inputs are necessary and it definitely feels less controllable....................

From your last post but it caught my attention in your first post of this thread above.  Back about a dozen GS500 years ago I had a similiar experience one day.  Going fast around a familiar relatively low speed turn I had taken many times my 97 GS felt like it was falling out from under me and I corrected and it repeated that feeling a couple more times but then never did it again. 

I attributed it to a bad tire match, had a bias belted GT501 front with a radial Z4 rear tire on at the time.  Around the same time Pablo (pantablo) reported a similiar experience with a well worn 150/60 Pilot Power on the track and went to a 140/80 Azzaro rear.

I've used a lot of different tires on my GSs but have never tried the Demons but I think it's probably more likely a tire type issue rather than a tire size problem.  I've used 10 different size tires on my GSs and only had that one bad match issue.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GS500tirelogs_zpse04c1f44.jpg

Quote from: ohgood on December 15, 2014, 06:40:12 AM
i think you're finding the limits of the gs's suspension.

That was exactly my thought while reading through this. It does take more force to lean the bike the further you lean it, and it should take an equal amount to put it back upright  - but throttle helps with that.  I haven't noticed an excessive amount of force required for steering after any certain angle though. I don't want to tell you that stiffer springs and a better shock will solve this for you - because I don't think you can totally eliminate it.  But I know the stability was tremendously improved through the turns when I did it to my GS. 

- Bboy

Quote from: ohgood on December 15, 2014, 06:40:12 AM

i think you're finding the limits of the gs's suspension.

I must admit i find it impossible to believe such a trait could be caused by suspension! A trait that is purely lean dependent,and which happens the same whether on bumpy or dead smooth roads

I have a stock suspension and the same tires, yet I love the handling they provide.
Are you sure they are balanced correctly, and you have the Suzuki recommended tire pressures?

The pressures are good.I've also tried various higher and lower pressures.It changes things a little but doesnt cure the problem.
They should be well balanced from the last tire swap.I'll double check to be sure.

This reminds me,i should check for straightness and runnout as well.One of my friends had lots of minor handling and tire issues with his ZX10.It turns out his rims were dinged up and warped.None of this could be seen just by looking at the bike,it was subtle

I have had that sensation when I first got this bike, but haven't had it since. I think I've adjusted my body position to be more across the tank in certain situations and noticed it stabilizes the bike. I was also surprised that it tucks in quicker than other bikes, but I've grown used to it and don't really notice anymore.

Also, are you riding in cold weather? Cold tires and pavement can change the traction dramatically. I like the Pirelli Sport Demon tires, but cold weather makes even these guys less sticky.

It's the same for me whether cold or hot. I'm not actually loosing grip- the tires arent sliding when this happens. It's much more about control and feedback from the tire.When leaned way over it's impossible to control accurately. I've decided to try different tires next time and see what that feels like -altho i havent yet decided which ones to try yet

Get with Gsjack regarding tires. Decades of riding experience. He knows all things tires