https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmj6bSOq66Y

Uh oh...helmet war brewing! ;p

Not at all.

Maybe we can butt heads (with helmets on) to verify claim?  

I'm comfortable with current SNELL in shell sizes XL+. The math seems favourable.

DOT is a great specs de utterly useless by lack of enforcement; I don't trust makers left to the honour system.

No ECE helmet I've ever seen in the U.S. market would be a legal ECE in the EU.

from my understanding. the helmet "head" part they use while testing. DOT is the most simple. and ECE is more "human" like.

Quote from: J_Walker on January 28, 2015, 08:20:54 PM
from my understanding. the helmet "head" part they use while testing. DOT is the most simple. and ECE is more "human" like.

DOT doesn't check much at all. From what I understand DOT allows your head to accelerate for a certain amount of time, whereas Snell doesn't. You have to purchase Snell certification AND pass the test, so you know there aren't any fakes (barring a conspiracy no doubt some Snell hater is going to bring up).

Snell tests for harder falls in a more consistent manner. Some people argue this creates more dangerous helmets, but those people clearly don't understand why it's important to have a very hard outer shell.

You can buy DOT stickers here. Does that make you feel safe? You will not find such things for Snell.

Quote from: Dr.McNinja on January 28, 2015, 10:55:10 PM

Quote from: J_Walker on January 28, 2015, 08:20:54 PM
from my understanding. the helmet "head" part they use while testing. DOT is the most simple. and ECE is more "human" like.

DOT doesn't check much at all. From what I understand DOT allows your head to accelerate for a certain amount of time, whereas Snell doesn't. You have to purchase Snell certification AND pass the test, so you know there aren't any fakes (barring a conspiracy no doubt some Snell hater is going to bring up).

Snell tests for harder falls in a more consistent manner. Some people argue this creates more dangerous helmets, but those people clearly don't understand why it's important to have a very hard outer shell.

You can buy DOT stickers here. Does that make you feel safe? You will not find such things for Snell.

DOT stickers mean nothing, you could just print a SNELL sticker at any place that makes stickers... for someone like me, who likes to customize their helmets, its kinda hard to give a helmet a custom paint job, while going around the DOT or ECE stickers.. what i've done is taken a picture of the original or taken it to the place and have them do it. and print the new sticker. mind you though, some helmet company's WONT stand by you if you paint their helmets, and something goes wrong...

even though I believe that paint doesn't cause most plastics to weaken..

Just thinking out loud... (if you're quiet you can hear the rusty gears squeaking! ) ...

No matter the current tests or certification levels. ..

Wouldn't it be cool if riders as a global group,  got gov't/ companies/testers to come up with a better and multi style/type testing system! ... sure it might add some cost onto helmets. .. but you could then go shopping... look up the overall 'stars out of 100' , the section structural  scores, the internal padding multiplier scores and weight/g force/decel on impact scores etc... all printed on a little card!

The ultimate protection/safety rating... independent of the actual price paid for helmet!

Sure the cheaper helmets MAY score less using cheaper materials. .. but it would be tested and shown!

Might encourage manufacturers to provide better quality base cost units too! .. with a crappy score the sales would likely drop!

Could it work?

No.

If global initiatives worked then most people would have potable water, let alone safer helmets.

The various agencies see no need to cooperate. They're probably right; who knows.

Quote from: J_Walker on January 29, 2015, 02:08:15 AM

Quote from: Dr.McNinja on January 28, 2015, 10:55:10 PM

Quote from: J_Walker on January 28, 2015, 08:20:54 PM
from my understanding. the helmet "head" part they use while testing. DOT is the most simple. and ECE is more "human" like.

DOT doesn't check much at all. From what I understand DOT allows your head to accelerate for a certain amount of time, whereas Snell doesn't. You have to purchase Snell certification AND pass the test, so you know there aren't any fakes (barring a conspiracy no doubt some Snell hater is going to bring up).

Snell tests for harder falls in a more consistent manner. Some people argue this creates more dangerous helmets, but those people clearly don't understand why it's important to have a very hard outer shell.

You can buy DOT stickers here. Does that make you feel safe? You will not find such things for Snell.

DOT stickers mean nothing, you could just print a SNELL sticker at any place that makes stickers... for someone like me, who likes to customize their helmets, its kinda hard to give a helmet a custom paint job, while going around the DOT or ECE stickers.. what i've done is taken a picture of the original or taken it to the place and have them do it. and print the new sticker. mind you though, some helmet company's WONT stand by you if you paint their helmets, and something goes wrong...

even though I believe that paint doesn't cause most plastics to weaken..

You can't just "print" the Snell serialized certification on the inside of the helmet. You might be able to fool the motorpigs checking to see if you have a legal helmet, but you're not going to fool someone who knows what to look for. If you're shopping I'm sure you can check that serial with Snell to make sure it's legit too. That's the point. Snell is so distinct you can't mistake a helmet that passes the qualification. DOT is basically the honor system and you have to trust the manufacturer to do the right thing. I dont trust anyone to do the right thing. Ever.

Quote from: Janx101 on January 29, 2015, 02:57:51 AM
Just thinking out loud... (if you're quiet you can hear the rusty gears squeaking! ) ...

No matter the current tests or certification levels. ..

Wouldn't it be cool if riders as a global group,  got gov't/ companies/testers to come up with a better and multi style/type testing system! ... sure it might add some cost onto helmets. .. but you could then go shopping... look up the overall 'stars out of 100' , the section structural  scores, the internal padding multiplier scores and weight/g force/decel on impact scores etc... all printed on a little card!

The ultimate protection/safety rating... independent of the actual price paid for helmet!

Sure the cheaper helmets MAY score less using cheaper materials. .. but it would be tested and shown!

Might encourage manufacturers to provide better quality base cost units too! .. with a crappy score the sales would likely drop!

Could it work?

This is exactly what Snell goes for. The reason Snell helmets are more expensive is naturally because they're made of better material, and the corporations are passing the cost of the certification onto the customer.

Nothing would encourage manufacturers to do better than starting by suing any business into the ground that sells DOT stickers and then forcing companies (through regulation) to actually comply to every single test. Serialize each manufacturers tests and make them publically available. Just like Snell does. The problem is when you trust a corporation to do the right thing all you get is the robber barons. Corporations have to be corralled like animals and prodded into doing things. When all you focus on is profit margin, you tend to lose focus on silly things like consumer safety. Especially when the government doesn't do anything to stop you.

If you make it impossible to buy DOT stickers people wont be able to buy novelty helmets. If you cant buy novelty helmets the average helmet quality will go up immensely, and our insurance will subsequently go down. The problem is, people here in America thing its their right to do stupid shaZam! like ride around without a helmet.

A good friend of mine who has rode for 40~ years took a bad fall last year and lost his leg. He was also found 10 or so yards from the bike, his leg was crushed and he had slid across the pavement with the front face of his helmet. Probably 90% of the time he rode half helmet but on this particular ride he decided to ride full face for some reason. Maybe he had a feeling, but who knows. Well he has made a fantastic recovery and is walking again with a prosthetic fine without the assistance of a cane, and he is getting his bike modified to ride again.

I wish I had a picture of the helmet but it's hanging up at the club house now as a reminder. His face would've been ripped off, and he would without a doubt be dead now. It is terrifying to even look at the helmet considering his leg. In Tennessee it is state law to ride a with helmet, but if I ride up to Kentucky it is not state law there, and you can ride without a helmet.

I believe motorcycles are a very safe form of transportation if respected and all factors taken into account. But my buddy serves as a very difficult, yet valuable lesson. He is in his 50's and never had an accident of that degree in his life. His motorcycle is his and his wife and even son's primary form of transportation. It just goes to show it doesn't matter how careful you are and how long you have been riding, these kind of accidents can happen to anybody.

You can't put a price on your head.
You can print a fake sticker, and put it on your helmet and fool the police and maybe even other riders or your friends, but you cant fool yourself. And you can't fool the pavement. I have heard too many horror stories to even gamble with fate like that. I am 26 and will never ride without a full face, Snell approved helmet on. I've seen the tests they do on Snell as well as DOT helmets and some of those helmets are just left in pieces. This is your most valuable asset we are talking about here... When I shop, I buy generic food and drinks. But I would never even consider buying a generic, cheap, or even fake device that really is a matter of LIFE or DEATH. I do not pass judgment on any of you, but I don't even see how this is a recurring topic. I even hear about it in my real life amongst riders. It's just crazy talk.

Do what you will, make your own choices. But please ride safe. That includes gear.

/endrant

Peace and Blessings
-eo

I crashed twice [three times if you count a dirt fall..] with a gmax platinum series on the same side... should of I replaced it after the first time? Maybe.. there was no visible outside damage so I thought "why not?" after the 2nd [3rd] crash was a little faster, and I had landed on the same side. so then I retired it...

some people will replace their helmets if they fall off their bikes... I know a guy who rides around with a CRACKED helmet..

just saying, I lived with a cheapo 100 dollar helmet, falling on it more then once...

I looked up some info on Aussie standards safety cert. .. they do a crown level circle test and that's about it! ..  thought previously that it was more comprehensive!

Queensland is bringing in legislation to allow Snell and euro standard helmets. . Which may then filter through rest of aussieland! ..  I'll be shopping!