I am new to riding motorcycle, and my GS500e.

After a few weeks I have discovered a few things, and I thought I would open up a conversation about these things, techniques on riding and the feeling of riding properly opposed to incorrectly...to see if I am on the right track.

Handle bar handling.

I call it that because it is not just steering.  It is generally the attention this area requires.  I have found through learning to steer correctly, or what I believe to be correct, as I am new, that the actual hold on the bars should be solid and firm(especially if you have the kind of pot-hole infested city like I do)  But, and this is important, one should not rest their weight on the bars.  Essentially, there is a balance that is created by momentum, that should not be interferred with, and I think this, is the magic about riding...although what do I know, I am brand new.  When I started to ride, I wondered why I was getting an occillation, or the bike seemed wormy.  Was it my rear wheel alignment, which I did myself...maybe.  But it all went away when I stopped fighting with the bike and let it handle itself.  There needs to be a much more delicate touch to the bars, not like you should be holding them with two fingers like the way you see people demonstrating counter-steering on youtube, but you can not have your weight on the bars.  And to do this, you must crush the tank with your knees a bit, and keep your core, or middle body, firm...it also looks better when there is a cute girl in the car next to you, and you have your belly sucked in a bit.   That was a joke, however, when the core is solid, and you are not influencing the bars, you can do your counter-steer-push-down, and the bike just floats into the corner.  And what is interesting, but not confirmed yet in my mind, is body position in a corner.  Sure you lean into the corner, however I have studied a lot of postures of the motogp guys and if you really look at them, the bike is way over, the butt of the rider is off the seat, but their core of the body is close to upright, which is possible by dropping your butt off the seat and your leg is extended over the seat.  So, I dont know how much body lean is actually necessary for a great majority of the curves in urban driving.

Rev matching, downshift.

Result: I cant do it.  Do I need to?

I mean, yes I can, do it perfectly, but not while braking, yet.

I didnt know better, but I was concerned that for the first week, my downshifts were so bouncy on the bike, and thought, this can not be good.  And from a bit of a background in car racing, the goal is always smoothe transitions, so I assume the same must be correct for motorcycles.

I can shift down slowly, with gradually letting out the clutch and slowing, but what would be really cool is to be able to have even pressure on the front brake, and be able to manipulate the throttle, so I can rev match.  It would be cool...but...is it really that important? 

Final comment.  I can not take off fast.  I can scream along once I am into second, and third, I can shift fast and cleanly...most of the time, so that I hardly know I actually shifted the bike.

But I need help off the line, right now I am slow off the clutch getting the bike moving, then I can rocket up the throttle, but I dont think I am doing this right.  Most Corollas with attitude, or minivans beat me off the line.  And I dont like that.

Currently I gradually increase throttle, as I release the clutch.  What should I do, high rpm and drop the clutch?  How is it done, on a day to day, not racing, but...eff me, I dont want to be taken by a corolla...especially a tan colored one, with a 70 year old lady in it.

M

Agreed on the treatment of the handlebars.  Grip should be solid, but not resting your weight on the bars, or death gripping them.

I'm not perfect on the downshifting rev-matching either.  It takes some time and practice, but you will get there.  I don't have much experience with manual cars, but I feel like it would be harder in a car to do this while braking with the heel-toe method.  Maybe I'm wrong.

As far as fast launching, I've heard that this is the best method.  Rev the bike up to the power band and release the clutch to the very edge of where you would loose traction or wheelie.  Then release more clutch and give more throttle to keep the engine in the power band as you accelerate.  It's a delicate balance, and it all happens relatively quickly, so it take some practice as well.  With a wet clutch you don't have to worry too much about burning up the clutch with this method, but don't ride the clutch for an extended period if you can help it.  I don't have a lot of need for really fast launches, so I haven't practiced this too much either.

In my case, I had to keep telling myself not to grip too tightly and cramping my hands. I have noticed that my bike seems very sensitive to tire pressure, that it will squirm significantly more if the front tire pressure is a touch too low.

I wouldn't worry too much about modeling your riding after motogp. They have very different goals in their riding, plus they don't have your pot holes to contend with!

I launch that way on a day to day basis, not quite a rev all the way up, but I'll definitely get the throttle going before I start to let in the clutch. Probably close to 2-3k when I start letting in the clutch.

I used to grip too tightly as well.  My hands would go numb/tingling after a while of riding on the highway.

Wow, excellent feedback, thank you so much.

At a standstill, I am taking off essentially from idle rpm and then slowly adding both throttle as I release the clutch, as to not harm the clutch.

ok,  3000rpm it is, then release.  I will try that.  I am not sure I am ready to burn out, at each intersection, but...well no, I will practice it tho, somewhere quiet...until I get there.

No I suppose I will not model myself after a motogp racer, I do equal about two of them, in terms of weight, especially if the second one is very slight, and skinny, and I would not look good in what they wear.

Another observation.

I really lucked out with this bike.  I have to keep telling myself to not fool around with it until something is wrong.

I am sure the carbs have never been cleaned, and it runs like a dream.  All I did was replace the battery, spark plugs, tires, air filter, and an oil change with filter.

It runs just fantastic, does not skip a beat!  Although I have not had it in the 7-11000 range.. maybe once a bit, around 8000, but I started exceeding the speed limit...which is a NO NO, in these parts.

You're gonna jinx yourself and your bike, talking like that! i've been really lucky with my bike too. I'm on a 9 year old battery with no problem. Carbs have never been opened (even though I have a buddha jet kit ready to go), I've put it off since it runs so well.

I just got home and tried to pay a little more attention while starting from a stop and I think that I do let off the clutch lever almost immediately as I hit the gas. With the slight amount of play in a properly adjusted lever, I don't actually start to hit the friction zone until the bike has started to rev up to about 2k. Don't think of the clutch as a on and off switch, don't be afraid to feather it. Like bombsquad said, don't worry too much about burning the clutch. It's easier to give it more gas and feather the clutch than not give it enough gas and bog down/stall.

Yeah, totally get it an practiced practiced practiced way home from work today. Also I got the hang of braking and Rev matching, until I started to over think it.

M

The GS500 has a nicely designed fuel tank...which allows the rider to "grab on" using the legs and knees...you can also lean forward..and lean the belly onto the tank....

This supports the entire upper body...so your hands do not need to take the weight.

I have much lower bars...Suburban Clubmans...but still, little to no weight on the hands!


The legs against the tank also assists in steering or turning in curves.  You can put your body weight, thru the legs,  "directly into the bike".

Properly set up and aligned bicycles and motorcycles can be "steered" without even using hands on bars at all...purely with weight shift!...So hands on bars is just to keep it all smooth and comfortable...not to be a gorilla trying to steer thru the bars...

I regularly ride over a couple of long bridges across a wide river...these bridges are steel mesh grating...it tries to "gab and pull" the front wheel...the looser the grip on the bars the better.  The bike still will pull and jump slightly as you go over the grating...but you just relax and let it go...if you try to fight every little thing, you end up wobbling all over the place....same goes for rough roads...


Cookie

Quote from: GSamIInsane on September 18, 2015, 07:25:27 AM
I am new to riding motorcycle, and my GS500e.

After a few weeks I have discovered a few things, and I thought I would open up a conversation about these things, techniques on riding and the feeling of riding properly opposed to incorrectly...to see if I am on the right track.

Handle bar handling.

I call it that because it is not just steering.  It is generally the attention this area requires.  I have found through learning to steer correctly, or what I believe to be correct, as I am new, that the actual hold on the bars should be solid and firm(especially if you have the kind of pot-hole infested city like I do)  But, and this is important, one should not rest their weight on the bars.  Essentially, there is a balance that is created by momentum, that should not be interferred with, and I think this, is the magic about riding...although what do I know, I am brand new.  When I started to ride, I wondered why I was getting an occillation, or the bike seemed wormy.  Was it my rear wheel alignment, which I did myself...maybe.  But it all went away when I stopped fighting with the bike and let it handle itself.  There needs to be a much more delicate touch to the bars, not like you should be holding them with two fingers like the way you see people demonstrating counter-steering on youtube, but you can not have your weight on the bars.  And to do this, you must crush the tank with your knees a bit, and keep your core, or middle body, firm...it also looks better when there is a cute girl in the car next to you, and you have your belly sucked in a bit.   That was a joke, however, when the core is solid, and you are not influencing the bars, you can do your counter-steer-push-down, and the bike just floats into the corner.  And what is interesting, but not confirmed yet in my mind, is body position in a corner.  Sure you lean into the corner, however I have studied a lot of postures of the motogp guys and if you really look at them, the bike is way over, the butt of the rider is off the seat, but their core of the body is close to upright, which is possible by dropping your butt off the seat and your leg is extended over the seat.  So, I dont know how much body lean is actually necessary for a great majority of the curves in urban driving.

Rev matching, downshift.

Result: I cant do it.  Do I need to?

I mean, yes I can, do it perfectly, but not while braking, yet.

I didnt know better, but I was concerned that for the first week, my downshifts were so bouncy on the bike, and thought, this can not be good.  And from a bit of a background in car racing, the goal is always smoothe transitions, so I assume the same must be correct for motorcycles.

I can shift down slowly, with gradually letting out the clutch and slowing, but what would be really cool is to be able to have even pressure on the front brake, and be able to manipulate the throttle, so I can rev match.  It would be cool...but...is it really that important? 

Final comment.  I can not take off fast.  I can scream along once I am into second, and third, I can shift fast and cleanly...most of the time, so that I hardly know I actually shifted the bike.

But I need help off the line, right now I am slow off the clutch getting the bike moving, then I can rocket up the throttle, but I dont think I am doing this right.  Most Corollas with attitude, or minivans beat me off the line.  And I dont like that.

Currently I gradually increase throttle, as I release the clutch.  What should I do, high rpm and drop the clutch?  How is it done, on a day to day, not racing, but...eff me, I dont want to be taken by a corolla...especially a tan colored one, with a 70 year old lady in it.

M

Excellent comments cookie, only thing I would add is that do not get used to steering with weight shift, you should always initiate steering with a countersteering maneuver, it can save your life in an emergency, as in that case one reacts purely out of habit and if you are used to starting with countersteering, you'll be able to make a much more effective emergency turn than if you initiate just by weight shift

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Agree about the counter steering...Just because it is possible to steer with no hands on bars...doesn't mean this is the best way to steer.

Again...the GS 500 is nicely designed...so the rider really becomes "one with the bike"...with firm grip on the tank and light grip on bars...

I've never ridden a "Harley type" motorcycle...but I just gotta laugh when I see those guys sometimes.....legs spread wide apart, bow legged...feet way forward and toes pointing outward, into the road...back leaning rearward, and hands way forward and upward to the ape hanger bars...

I can't imagine that riding position does much for feel and control...It's like the bike and rider are two distinctly different and separate things. 

Sport bike riding position makes rider and bike  "the same thing"...

Cookie

Quote from: bmf on September 19, 2015, 03:48:51 AM
Excellent comments cookie, only thing I would add is that do not get used to steering with weight shift, you should always initiate steering with a countersteering maneuver, it can save your life in an emergency, as in that case one reacts purely out of habit and if you are used to starting with countersteering, you'll be able to make a much more effective emergency turn than if you initiate just by weight shift

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Interesting observations.  I haven't ridden in about 20 years and just got back into it.  There is a lot of information our there now - YouTube, internet etc didn't even exist back then.  What I find with turns is - after 'studying' counter-steering etc, I didn't even know I was counter-steering back in the day.  When I came to a curve - I just did it.  Now the more I think about it - the harder it is!  (Like breathing!)  When I just think and look where I want to go - it happens.  As far as off the start.  Like how you worded it - funny!  I too now realize I'm way too slow off the start so I'm glad you posted this and am watching the replies for tips.  I will try revving a bit higher now.

Cookie...My belly may touch the tank, just sitting on the bike normally...I might confess.  Due by enlarge from over developed intercostal and abdominal muscles developed over the years    or...beer.     

Just another note, I love how open the sound is of this bike past 7000rpm although I admit to only being there briefly from time to time...although plan to be there more often in the future.

I agree the hog posture to be less dignified than that of the standard bike, which requires less of a monobrow, and more finesse.  Besides you have to be able to drag you knuckles when you walk to be able to reach the bars on those bikes.   

I agree, there is so much information available that if one chooses they can find information that is above and beyond average getting down the road driving, sort of experience.  When I discovered how balanced the bike is, it became such a pleasure to ride that I wanted to improve my poor or non existent technique and knowledge and atleast find out how it should be done opposed to how I think it should be, either intuitively or made up.

I was wrong in my first post, the part about keeping more upright in my posture.  I found out the desired position when turning is to completely maintain the vertical line of the motorcycle.  What affect has that had on my counter-steering?  I counter-steer a lot less, and it is even more of a ballet of balance and finesse, you keep the weight exactly unchanged, and balance into the corner, however I am not fast yet, so the parameters may be different at a faster speed, but I dont think so.

Sometimes I find the study of technique, from my music background, allows you to take all the "affected" stuff out of the equation, to get to the most pure and simple, reduced form, which is most natural...but I always over complicate, that is just me.

So I have played with my starts more, letting the clutch out gradually at 3000, and I find, setting up the condition where you can let the clutch out the fastest and not stall, will send you out of the gate the fastest, as Ed has said. 

I still wonder, and Cookie's comment makes me wonder even more, if I am still too grippy on the bars, however I hit one big pothole 4 days ago which makes me think otherwise.  If this were a race course, I am sure the grip can be quite light.  But I think a firm grip is good, so one doesnt get caught off guard.

I welcom everyones interesting comments.  Because this is fun for me.  And therefore other people too.

M

Shifting short answer:

practice.

Shifting long answer:

practice, practice, practice.

If you've never been, this is a nice site for noobs: www.beginnerbikers.com

If you want to deal with my TL;DR style, I have a few pointers for you.  I've been riding significantly for the past 4 years or so, so much that I sold my car and went solo-cycle for the past 5 months.  I only bought a car recently  because I went down in a turn riding in the rain, and although the bike was more or less ok I had a sprained wrist and an injured shoulder so I needed a cage to get to work and back.  Today was actually my first day back on the bike in about 2 weeks.

I've taken the MSF course several times just for sheer enjoyment, and if my work schedule wasn't in conflict with it I'd be training to be an instructor right now.  I've never taken a "serious" riding course, but I have ridden with other who have, and have watched and read plenty of material on advanced techniques.  I can offer you quite a bit of advice.


First off, about the grip tension on the bars.  The best explanation I've heard is to grip it like you are holding a sparrow.  You want to be tight enough that the bird can't wiggle free, but loose enough you don't smother it.  Being too tight on the bars is a good way to fight your bike's natural stability, and being too loose will make it so that your movements aren't precise.  You shouldn't feel any cramps, if you do and you don't feel like you are gripping tight at all, perhaps a change in bar angle would be appropriate.

You should relax your arms.  None of, or as little as possible of, your weight should be on the bars.  You should support your upper body with your core, and to do this you need to set up for a good foundation.  Gripping the tank with your knees is a start, but also think about your feet.  If you have your feet resting with the peg under your arch, or hanging your feet by your heels, you are doing it wrong.  You should be "standing" on the pegs with the balls of your feet, as if you were tippy toe to reach something tall.  The reason is simple, the balls of your feet is where you are most stable, and where you have the most power.  Placing your feet like this will allow your legs to accept more of your body weight, making it less strenuous on your core.  It has benefits when considering shifting your weight in advanced cornering techniques, but don't be concerned with that yet.

Yes, operating the shifter and brake will require you to move your feet.  But consider this, have you ever driven a manual transmission car?  You don't keep one hand on the shifter at all times, you reach off the wheel to the shifter to change gears then take hold of the wheel again.  You also don't cover the brake or clutch until you are preparing to shift/brake, just like on a bike you shouldn't cover the brake or clutch unless preparing to use the brake/clutch.

One of the best things you can do for control is not fighting the bars.  The push and pull of counter-steering should be a mutual agreement, and if the bike doesn't want to and you force it you'll likely crash.  The same goes for the opposite, if the bike accepts your input without any feedback you're likely in trouble.
I've had my front end lose traction in a turn and it just loosely swung all the way to one side from the pressure of me counter-steering.  My response wasn't to grab and pull the bars back to where they should be, I pretty much all but let go of them while I rolled on gentle throttle.  The result was the bars moved themselves back to where they needed to be to find stability, and I completed the turn.  Until you have the skill and mental ability to do this take it easy in turns and try not to ride in adverse conditions.


While talking about the bars, keep your arms relaxed.  Your body should behave like part of the suspension, not part of the frame.  If your arms are rigid, even if you are gentle on the bars and are supporting your weight properly you could improperly input while turning and going over bumps and such.  Not only will the ride be less comfortable for you, your bike will be less stable.


Body lean?  In urban riding?  Completely unnecessary.  In fact, body lean is a concept that is often misused, and something I think Cookie also doesn't understand completely.  Your body leaning off the side of the bike does not help the bike steer in the slightest.  The only thing that makes the bike steer is counter-steering.  Thinking if you lean off the side of the bike you will turn sharper will get you in trouble.  Your primary and only method of steering at roadway speeds should be counter-steering.
Will the bike turn if you lean and put all your weight on one side?  Yes.  But not nearly enough to consider it "steering" or have any semblance of control.  The only way to "steer" is with direct input on the bars.
Why do the MotoGP guys hang off the bikes then?  To give the bike less lean angle, yes, LESS lean angle.  The more upright the bike is, the more contact the tires have with the road surface.  When you are turning at 60+mph, you need all the traction you can get.  So they offset the center of balance of the bike and get it to lean LESS while THEY lean more, but still the input required for turning is all in the bars.
If you are taking turns at 60+ around town, maybe you shouldn't be on a bike.  I won't say hanging off isn't useful in the right situation, even around town, and I will say that I have done it and will continue to do it often when I am having fun on curvy roads, but it is an advanced technique you should not be using at this point in time, nor is it a necessary skill for urban riding.


Downshift rev-matching.  Again its something advanced that I don't think you'll need, but if you'd like to know how it's done I'll tell you.  This is the sequence:
1)Clutch in (you can now downshift)
2)Throttle on
3)Throttle off
4)Clutch out

Seems obvious?  Here's the thing, the faster you do it the easier and smoother it is.  The goal is to blip the throttle while clutching with just enough time to downshift, but the important thing is to blip the throttle while the clutch is IN.  If you blip too soon the bike will surge, and if you blip too late you'll engine brake roughly.
Pull clutch, roll on, roll off, release clutch.  Pull clutch, roll on, roll off, release clutch...

You can practice this without slowing down at all, in fact.  Once you get a little more used to what speeds and RPMs your gears like, and how your throttle responds, you can go up and down gears (and up and down RPMs) without modifying your speed.  Just don't roll off the throttle completely when you are doing this or you will engine brake.
Once you get used to this concept, we can add the brakes in.  I like to keep my index finger curled around the throttle and manipulate the brake with my middle, ring, and pinkey fingers.  While keeping pressure on the lever, I can let my fingers slide up and down on it while blipping the throttle with the motion of my wrist.  The same timing is required.  It's a great technique for slowing to enter a turn without removing the power completely, or slowing to a red light that you expect to change to green before you will come to a stop.  But for average riding, it's once again completely unnecessary.


For launching, especially on the underpowered GS500 (especially mine with a taller gearing setup), I like to blip up the throttle to above 4k before I start letting the clutch out.  Then it's smooth out as I smoothly roll on.  There's not much more to it.  The more you do it, and the more you get used to it, the faster you'll become.  Slow is smooth and smooth is fast, just practice practice practice!
Just don't go pinning the throttle and letting the clutch out fast unless you want to be in pain...



If you want me to clarify any of this let me know and I'll do what I can to reword it.  If you want to watch some technical videos about advanced techniques this is a good place to start.  Lengthy, and very technical, but good info.
And if you happen to be in the Chicagoland area, I'd be happy to show you some stuff personally.

Be safe, take it slow, keep your rubber down.

I am only suggesting that a motorcycle (like a bicycle) can be controlled (or steered) without touching the handle bars.  In fact, stunt riders stand on the seat, and "steer" the bike.

I am not suggesting that this is the way for everyday riding.

Steering the bars (counter steering) will cause the bike (and rider) to lean(and turn).  Leaning (without touching the bars), will cause the bike to also lean and turn.  The tow are interconnected.  (slow speed maneuvering is totally different)

Oddly enough, in order to turn right, you must first lean to the left!  We did tests in school, by having riders ride really close to a wall.  When they tried to turn away from the wall..they actually bumped the wall first. 

Cookie

Quote from: Watcher on September 22, 2015, 08:28:43 PM
If you want to deal with my TL;DR style, I have a few pointers for you.  I've been riding significantly for the past 4 years or so, so much that I sold my car and went solo-cycle for the past 5 months.  I only bought a car recently  because I went down in a turn riding in the rain, and although the bike was more or less ok I had a sprained wrist and an injured shoulder so I needed a cage to get to work and back.  Today was actually my first day back on the bike in about 2 weeks.

I've taken the MSF course several times just for sheer enjoyment, and if my work schedule wasn't in conflict with it I'd be training to be an instructor right now.  I've never taken a "serious" riding course, but I have ridden with other who have, and have watched and read plenty of material on advanced techniques.  I can offer you quite a bit of advice.


First off, about the grip tension on the bars.  The best explanation I've heard is to grip it like you are holding a sparrow.  You want to be tight enough that the bird can't wiggle free, but loose enough you don't smother it.  Being too tight on the bars is a good way to fight your bike's natural stability, and being too loose will make it so that your movements aren't precise.  You shouldn't feel any cramps, if you do and you don't feel like you are gripping tight at all, perhaps a change in bar angle would be appropriate.

You should relax your arms.  None of, or as little as possible of, your weight should be on the bars.  You should support your upper body with your core, and to do this you need to set up for a good foundation.  Gripping the tank with your knees is a start, but also think about your feet.  If you have your feet resting with the peg under your arch, or hanging your feet by your heels, you are doing it wrong.  You should be "standing" on the pegs with the balls of your feet, as if you were tippy toe to reach something tall.  The reason is simple, the balls of your feet is where you are most stable, and where you have the most power.  Placing your feet like this will allow your legs to accept more of your body weight, making it less strenuous on your core.  It has benefits when considering shifting your weight in advanced cornering techniques, but don't be concerned with that yet.

Yes, operating the shifter and brake will require you to move your feet.  But consider this, have you ever driven a manual transmission car?  You don't keep one hand on the shifter at all times, you reach off the wheel to the shifter to change gears then take hold of the wheel again.  You also don't cover the brake or clutch until you are preparing to shift/brake, just like on a bike you shouldn't cover the brake or clutch unless preparing to use the brake/clutch.

One of the best things you can do for control is not fighting the bars.  The push and pull of counter-steering should be a mutual agreement, and if the bike doesn't want to and you force it you'll likely crash.  The same goes for the opposite, if the bike accepts your input without any feedback you're likely in trouble.
I've had my front end lose traction in a turn and it just loosely swung all the way to one side from the pressure of me counter-steering.  My response wasn't to grab and pull the bars back to where they should be, I pretty much all but let go of them while I rolled on gentle throttle.  The result was the bars moved themselves back to where they needed to be to find stability, and I completed the turn.  Until you have the skill and mental ability to do this take it easy in turns and try not to ride in adverse conditions.


While talking about the bars, keep your arms relaxed.  Your body should behave like part of the suspension, not part of the frame.  If your arms are rigid, even if you are gentle on the bars and are supporting your weight properly you could improperly input while turning and going over bumps and such.  Not only will the ride be less comfortable for you, your bike will be less stable.


Body lean?  In urban riding?  Completely unnecessary.  In fact, body lean is a concept that is often misused, and something I think Cookie also doesn't understand completely.  Your body leaning off the side of the bike does not help the bike steer in the slightest.  The only thing that makes the bike steer is counter-steering.  Thinking if you lean off the side of the bike you will turn sharper will get you in trouble.  Your primary and only method of steering at roadway speeds should be counter-steering.
Will the bike turn if you lean and put all your weight on one side?  Yes.  But not nearly enough to consider it "steering" or have any semblance of control.  The only way to "steer" is with direct input on the bars.
Why do the MotoGP guys hang off the bikes then?  To give the bike less lean angle, yes, LESS lean angle.  The more upright the bike is, the more contact the tires have with the road surface.  When you are turning at 60+mph, you need all the traction you can get.  So they offset the center of balance of the bike and get it to lean LESS while THEY lean more, but still the input required for turning is all in the bars.
If you are taking turns at 60+ around town, maybe you shouldn't be on a bike.  I won't say hanging off isn't useful in the right situation, even around town, and I will say that I have done it and will continue to do it often when I am having fun on curvy roads, but it is an advanced technique you should not be using at this point in time, nor is it a necessary skill for urban riding.


Downshift rev-matching.  Again its something advanced that I don't think you'll need, but if you'd like to know how it's done I'll tell you.  This is the sequence:
1)Clutch in (you can now downshift)
2)Throttle on
3)Throttle off
4)Clutch out

Seems obvious?  Here's the thing, the faster you do it the easier and smoother it is.  The goal is to blip the throttle while clutching with just enough time to downshift, but the important thing is to blip the throttle while the clutch is IN.  If you blip too soon the bike will surge, and if you blip too late you'll engine brake roughly.
Pull clutch, roll on, roll off, release clutch.  Pull clutch, roll on, roll off, release clutch...

You can practice this without slowing down at all, in fact.  Once you get a little more used to what speeds and RPMs your gears like, and how your throttle responds, you can go up and down gears (and up and down RPMs) without modifying your speed.  Just don't roll off the throttle completely when you are doing this or you will engine brake.
Once you get used to this concept, we can add the brakes in.  I like to keep my index finger curled around the throttle and manipulate the brake with my middle, ring, and pinkey fingers.  While keeping pressure on the lever, I can let my fingers slide up and down on it while blipping the throttle with the motion of my wrist.  The same timing is required.  It's a great technique for slowing to enter a turn without removing the power completely, or slowing to a red light that you expect to change to green before you will come to a stop.  But for average riding, it's once again completely unnecessary.


For launching, especially on the underpowered GS500 (especially mine with a taller gearing setup), I like to blip up the throttle to above 4k before I start letting the clutch out.  Then it's smooth out as I smoothly roll on.  There's not much more to it.  The more you do it, and the more you get used to it, the faster you'll become.  Slow is smooth and smooth is fast, just practice practice practice!
Just don't go pinning the throttle and letting the clutch out fast unless you want to be in pain...



If you want me to clarify any of this let me know and I'll do what I can to reword it.  If you want to watch some technical videos about advanced techniques this is a good place to start.  Lengthy, and very technical, but good info.
And if you happen to be in the Chicagoland area, I'd be happy to show you some stuff personally.

Be safe, take it slow, keep your rubber down.

I do not want to cause a riff here between anyone, not my objective.  I think there is some interpreting that needs to occur.  I was riding with my "bike gang" friend, who, not even I would get into a debate with, because he is a nice guy, but also scary...

I can tell from riding behind him the way he leans to initiate a turn, (not, lean to turn), that he is not counter-steering the bike.  Unless you have been exposed to the concept of pushing or (encouraging the opposite handlebar to the direction of the turn) that downward motion, causes the lean, but it is a different lean.  I would suggest it is not pushing the bike over, but influencing the balance of the machine, on one side or another.

Ultimately a forum by definition is where we learn together, not argue.

Thanks so much Watcher, for telling me some things I do not know, and for confirming other things I have thought about these past few weeks while learning to ride.  Overall, I am going to be in the category of the technical thinkers, rather than the instinctive doers, in the motorcycle world.

I agree with the grip as you suggest, and I like the bird analogy, that one works for me.  I have also come to realize the arms are also an extension of the hands and have to be relaxed, as does the shoulder area, and neck.

There was a motogp expert thing I read about cornering a bike, just mildly, not for gp stuff, and he said what you want to avoid, is both the reciprocal counter body movement, to the countersteer, and also leaning.  He said you just want to have no mass disruptance between you and the bike.  Imagine being upright and balanced on the bike, imagine a vertical line going straight through your centre and the bike, now, never interfere with that line.  What I find is, when you initiate a counter-steer, and you keep the "mass vertical line", you hardly have any lean under most conditions, you really do have to be taking significant corners at 60 kph + to be over at any angle.  It is because if you lean, and especially keep yourself upright as you take the corner, you are in opposition to the balance that is established during the counter steer.

The answer for me at this time is, keep the mass the same, dont change it, and use the countersteer.  It is more subtle than you think, and requires concentration, especially for me, because I am dumb.

YOur launch makes sense to me.  I have not quite been satisfied with my launch and am still too slow.  I have been considering a blip.

Sometimes I am too slow with my throttle blips when rev matching, so I do a couple blips and it works very well, until I get my timing down.  And Yes I have found rev matching to be even more useful not when preparing to stop at a light etc, but when I am in cruising mode in a higher gear and I want to get out of that gear for a bit more performance.

I would consider heading to Chicago, not now, but next year, sounds like a nice road trip and a good chance to talk shop with you.

Michael

I have just read through this thread and couple of thoughts spring to mind. The comments about gripping the handlebars (too) tightly are appropriate. My daughter used to have major issues with her wrists because she would support her upper body weight (what little these is of it) on her arms and wrists. Once she sat a little more upright she was soon able to ride for much longer periods.

As for the comments about motogp racers squirming about all over the bike this is not about steering exactly, but about using the impact of wind shear into the body to enable faster cornering. If you watch a F1 bike race you will notice the riders low over their bikes on the straights, but then they sit up as they approach a corner, using the air as a brake to slow them down more rapidly. They then crawl over to the inside of the curve and stick their knee out to create more wind resistance and get round the corner faster. Coming out of the corner the riders will then get central on the bike and get as low as possible to reduce the wind resistance as much as possible.

Finally those that ride around on armchairs, sorry cruisers. The centre of gravity on a cruiser, from my limited experience, is much lower than that of a sports bike. Which is why cruiser riders seems to ride as if they have four wheels. There is also limited ground clearance, so you will quickly be scraping a peg if you corner too quickly. As for some of the other customisations on cruisers, if your driving a armchair you might as well be comfortable. For those of us with older (and more worn) bodies sometime riding a sports bike for more than a couple of hours can be painful. I know, so you stop and take a break, but if you want to get 1000 miles in a day a GS is not the most comfortable way - not that I'd like to try any other.

I think Watcher has it pretty well nailed. Great explanation. The only thing I'd re-iterate is: relax on the bars, and don't overthink it, because your inner-ear and instinct will keep you safe.

Michael might THINK his scary mate isn't countersteering, but actually he is, he just doesn't know it. The front-end geometry INDUCES countersteer if body-weight is transferred enough, so even though the turn might be INITIALLY instigated by body-lean the subconcious steering compensates so scaryman doesn't end up in the hedge!
So what's happening is that mate leans his body, and he subconciously countersteers, because if he didn't he'd simply fall off!

This has probably been explained earlier, but simply put, pushing the bars momentarily opposite to the turn direction TIPS the bike into the lean INTO the turn, and then the bars are then (usually instinctively) turned into the direction of the turn.

Barry.

In that video "Twist of the Wrist,"  (highly recommended by Watcher), and I must confess my research had turned it up prior to him mentioning it, so I was familiar.  They show using this technique works for all bikes.  It is funny seeing a 150lbs guy dressed in motorcycle racing gear on a Goldwing, but sure enough you see him cornering one and you see him getting very close to the ground with the freezer compartment, or whatever that is on the back of the bike 

Joolstacho,

You are right about my scary friend, who is actually a really nice guy, I feel bad that we are talking about him this way.  He laughed when I asked him to test ride the GS when I first got it and he said, my calf muscle touches the back of my leg when I ride that thing.  He liked the bike but thought I would outgrow it in a year.

Anyway, I was wrong, he has to be instinctively countersteering the bike, whether he knows it or not, he is doing it.

M