so... im making some effort to get the substance of the project underway 160 on a suitable 4.5'' rim rather than mushrooming anything onto the 3.5'' (i think) gs rim. i run a 150 on the gs at the moment and ive had it to the edge of usable tyre to the point it actually gives way  but theres still a couple of mm of chicken strip. in terms of flickibility i dont feel like i lost anything jumping to 150 from the 130, went up to 120 on the front at the same time and its still very nimble but it was less prone to a bit of front end shiking in the higher speed sweepers. im not really one for the big tyre thing, typically i run whats best for the bike but tyre choice is pathetic when you run under 160. on the plus side the apex ratio of the tyre will actually alter the gearing so that i get an extra 2mpg out of my silly gearing, ''should'' do gps accurate 106. im not chasing chicken strips, im not doing it for looks although it will look a bit more purposeful, its so i can run decent tyres. kind of funny, i'll be running a 150 knobbly on it for a while anyway but atleast it will hold its proper profile.



1st gen sv650 wheel, shares the same 17mm axle, think it uses the same spacers as well but i cant remember off the top of my head but i checked parts numbers once upon a time. pirelli diablo on it at the moment, slight squaring but loads of miles in it. brake disc is alright but all in all its not what was advertised but its cleaned up quite well.



gen1 sv650 brake hanger/bracket. slightly different height to the gs one but should be the same width.



mentioned these a couple of times but yeah the gsxr 750 wp USD forks ive got sitting, they were rebuild by some irish race team for their bike but unused, or so the story goes so im not sure if they've been resprung or what the deal is with them but i got them for free. at a glance they are about 5mm shorter than the gs forks axle centre to top cap but i havent properly measured them. i run it with the forks about 20mm through anyway so length wont be an issue at all.

so at the moment i need to go see about getting some sprocket spacers made up, ive got a gsxr 1100 wp front wheel on its way which should be identical to the 750 one i need, speedo drive, axle/spacers, a mudgaurd or ill make something up, need to find disks and yokes. heres hoping i get away with not needing to press stems out etc but if so then its no worries as i have access to presses. oh and callipers dependant on what i can do with what ive got lying around.

as for the sv650 wheel, theres a bit of info online about the swap (in german / broken english) if you look hard enough, it seems to be the most logical way of running bigger rubber with little effort but its not exactly a bolt of part but i'll do a wee write up for anyone interested.

but yeah i want to try the bigger rubber with road tyres before i throw the knobblies on for winter just to gauge the difference.

and so the saga begins. slow as f%$k, loud, rough and ready, zero fucks given. love it.

just found this http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?170903-GS500-front-sprocket-almost-killed-me-last-night

something i've been thinking about and perhaps its not as sophisticated as i had planned but the same principle, he's welded a bolt onto the countershaft so he can bolt down the front sprocket. i had planned on drilling and tapping into the shaft so i could get a spacer made up i could bolt onto the shaft. similar idea but a lot less work. just have no idea why suzuki thought it was an acceptable way to mount a sprocket.

so ive had to reroute the fuel line. instead of the std petcocks outlets travelling straight down this one is side exit. originally i had it facing forward so that i could (just) access the lever without removing the tank in case of emergency. with it facing forward at 90' its quite an extreme angle and puts strain  on the line when theres weight on the line, ie my inline petcock, this caused it to split near the tank on 2 occasions, the first i caught it as it happened but the second i lost 2/3 of a tank overnight  not ideal. tried a few things and nothing was quite right so i'm, waiting to get my hands on another petcock to try but in the meantime ive done this.







damn the bikes needing a good teardown and clean! hopefully be painting the next time it gets stripped right down. but thats right down low on the priorities list.



front gsxr 1100 wp wheel ready to go. decent 120/70 pilot power on it as well.



forks, spindle, speedo drive and wheel spacer all sitting ready.

hopefully mocking up some calliper brackets this weekend to fit the blue spots and i've just paid for a set of yokes/triples things are well on their way. just need to source disks, disk bolts and make brackets now.

got my friend at the machine shop knocking some sprocket spacers for the sv wheel as we speak, so all going well the 160 will be getting fitted next weekend.

also the story about the forks being race prepped might actually hold true, they're significantly firmer than my gsxr11 forks of the same gen and the preload is wound right out. it could turn out to be absolute overkill on the gs but i'll just have to wait and see what their static sag is like under weight.

lots of good things happening and its all coming together

I think a 160 on a bike this power and weight is a bit big ( a bit).
And a ZR tyre isn't going to heat up to a decent operating temperature either. The bike just doesn't go fast enough.
You may want to look elsewhere than the tyre ,for the letting go feeling, unless the tyre is getting old. Check the date stamped on the tyre.
Std tyre is definitely too small, but a proper profile 140 or 150 should be about right. Any bigger and you won't get enough tyre deformation and temperature. You will also have to mod both the sprocket/chain run and the brake anchor arm ( though you have to mod the arm even for a 150, which is what I did). A 150 will pull into a higher profile ( and correspondingly more sidewall angle) on the std rim. But the 4.5 rim would do the opposite.
Anyway I look forward to your comments when you get her going. Love the front end.

Quote from: gregjet on August 13, 2016, 02:06:43 PM
I think a 160 on a bike this power and weight is a bit big ( a bit).
And a ZR tyre isn't going to heat up to a decent operating temperature either. The bike just doesn't go fast enough.
You may want to look elsewhere than the tyre ,for the letting go feeling, unless the tyre is getting old. Check the date stamped on the tyre.
Std tyre is definitely too small, but a proper profile 140 or 150 should be about right. Any bigger and you won't get enough tyre deformation and temperature. You will also have to mod both the sprocket/chain run and the brake anchor arm ( though you have to mod the arm even for a 150, which is what I did). A 150 will pull into a higher profile ( and correspondingly more sidewall angle) on the std rim. But the 4.5 rim would do the opposite.
Anyway I look forward to your comments when you get her going. Love the front end.

Quote from: iamhiding on August 13, 2016, 05:01:25 PM

Quote from: gregjet on August 13, 2016, 02:06:43 PM
I think a 160 on a bike this power and weight is a bit big ( a bit).
And a ZR tyre isn't going to heat up to a decent operating temperature either. The bike just doesn't go fast enough.
You may want to look elsewhere than the tyre ,for the letting go feeling, unless the tyre is getting old. Check the date stamped on the tyre.
Std tyre is definitely too small, but a proper profile 140 or 150 should be about right. Any bigger and you won't get enough tyre deformation and temperature. You will also have to mod both the sprocket/chain run and the brake anchor arm ( though you have to mod the arm even for a 150, which is what I did). A 150 will pull into a higher profile ( and correspondingly more sidewall angle) on the std rim. But the 4.5 rim would do the opposite.
Anyway I look forward to your comments when you get her going. Love the front end.

theres a whole reply missing, god knows where its gone, long story short you're right, you have a point but it's completley negligible. 

sprocket spacers made up out of stainless 



yokes turned up as well

been running the sv wheel for about a week or two now with a misaligned chain as theres an issue that i'll later explain with the front alignment, bike feels much more planted i have very little faith in the mushroomed 120 front tyre anymore but i'll soon have that sorted. anyway yeah the 160 is much more tyre than the gs needs but thats not a bad thing and it feels good on the bike. haven't actually taken any pics of it on, only a couple of build pics which i'll piece together once i properly resolve the front sprocket offset, need to go see the welder. like i said previously in a comment which disappeared  there will be a fairly thorough write up and explanation.

more parts! 



set of wavey 310mm gsxr 1100/750 disks.



new stainless banjo bolts, using 54mm p-clips for the headlight brackets, also got some titanium disk bolts (cheaper than the std items) which i'll put on my 11 and use the cruddy old bolts for the gs  win win



so i was test fitting the blue spots on my 11 for making up brackets on the matching 750 forks ill be using on the gs and although i could easily enough make brackets, i'm not overly happy with the shape i'd have to use to make it it work.



the wp 11/750 forks have this tapered edge running in between the two mounting points so i would need to make two tabs which forked either side of that edge rather than having a flat plate run parallel to the fork. by all means it would probably be strong enough but i'm not all that confident in the way id be making it fit rather than making it strong if you get me. so the blue spots are off the cards unfortunately



i dislike the the 6-pots so its with much displeasure i present these 90mm nissins... but they are recently refurbished, with almost new pads and i got them for a very fair price so i cant argue with that.

the 6 pots don't offer as much hydraulic advantage on their stock master cylinder so they aren't as 'bitey' as their 4pot counterpart and the 6's offer a little more lever modulation. the 4 pots are known to boil on track and fade but the 6's are meant to be much better in that regard. not that this will be an issue on the gs, these brakes are absolute overkill for the bike.

with the 6's you're much more likely to encounter a sticky piston as... well you have more pistons...  and for this reason i dislike them, that and on the road id rather have 'bitey'er' brakes than brakes less prone to fade. seal kits are more pricey when they need done and well this is an all weather bike so the brakes will need very regular attention.

i could use a smaller master cyl to bring a bit more life into the 6pots but theres no point on the gs really. the gs shares the same 5/8 master as the gsxr wp's so i dont need to faff about with changing that.

the 90mm tokicos get used on a pile of old suzukis, gsxr 1100/750, bandit 12s, rf9s i believe, tl1000, busa and a few others not to mention zx6r, zx9r and although they arent the same calipers the old daytona 955 shares the same 90mm spacing so in terms of finding compatible parts, there isn't a problem.

//

all the parts are sitting, just need to figure out what i'm doing with the front mudguard, then test fit and swap the stems across. possibly this weekend if i have the time.  lots of progress being made in the background in between juggling the other projects.

oh and i need to drill the top yoke for fitting the bar clamps, easy enough though 

swapped the ti bolts with the cruddy old 11 ones



cleaned em' up



drilled a rake of holes in a box to hold them



and gave them a quick lick of paint.  wouldnt have bothered but they had zero zinc coating left and disk bolts are known for being a pain in the ass so for the sake of 10 minutes i've got a tidy and protected set of bolts. win win 



looking good fitted, shame about the paint on the wheel itself

pulled the callipers apart yesterday for a clean, something i do with all new brakes, better being safe and it saves the hassle of bleeding them in to find sticky pistons.

bit of a build up under the seals, so much for 'recently refurbed'. quite surprised as to how bad they were with how tidy they look on the outside, certainly recent powdercoat and pads

pulled the pistons with a puller, brass wheeled the crap off them, used a fine 240 scotchbright wheel to flatten them out then polished to a high finish with autosol on a wheel. seal areas got brass dremel wheeled out and then a 90' pick to get right into the bits that you just don't see. seals weren't great but were salvageable, everything greased up with the good stuff and slipped back together... the usual brake cleaning stuff, no point taking pics but i dont mess about when it comes to brakes.

notably they aren't the same 6pots ive encountered before, each calliper has 4 pistons the same size and 2 slightly smaller. not sure what bike they've come off of but ive messaged the guy to find out.



looking at the back of the top yoke to see where i can get away with drilling for clamps, obviously you want to avoid webbing and if you can avoid having to reinforce if you drill somewhere thin its less work. the holes where the weird rubber covered bolt bits come off with a 17mm socket, not actually sure what theyre meant to mount to on the 11/750 but ideally thats the space i wanted to use for clamps due to its structure.



plotted it out on the front for measuring distances and just making sure it was all going to work. bit of an awkward job as you dont have a straight edge to start from. the bar clamps are sitting in place and they will sit 15mm closer to the rider at that than the setup i have currently ( not sure if its a gs yoke im using at the moment), not what i wanted but it will work fine and if need be i can fill the fill the holes and remount.

done a bit of reading on steering geometry and i dont foresee it having any real effect other than making it a little more weight bias towards the back of the bike due to the riding position being different

the bolt width is like 97mm at that which is fine, measured a couple of bikes for clamp distance and they were all between 90mm on a ccm and 100mm on the gs5 and 1150rs i had to hand.



off to work with the pillar drill, went up in sizes slowly to take it to m10 but m7 and up was really bad for starting to bind in and lock up so i finished it with a regular drill to be on the safe side. its not a tool ive used much to be honest.



clamps fitted! the holes lined up with my measurements so thats always good  they arent bad by any means but the holes could have been tidier, the pillar drill just wasn't playing ball for me and id rather not mangle anything.



and the underside



no risers fitted as of yet, going to see how it is first. the good thing about the bars being 15mm back is that there should be more space for preload adjustment on the forks  heres hoping anyway  might have to fit risers just to get more adjustment ie soften it up a little.

//

plan for this evening is to finish cutting down the mudguard i started like 2 years ago  and make some brackets to fit to the new forks. its currently red so it'll likely get a coat of black when i'm done. after that its just a case of test fitting the front end tomorrow to make sure ive not overlooked anything then pressing the stem in and bleeding the brakes. its not my first front end swap, dont foresee any problems but you never know. hopefully get a proper ride out on monday to put it through its paces   i suspect the brakes are going to be utterly ridiculous.

obviously steering lock and steering stops need to be addressed but this wont stop the bike riding.

what a day of it yesterday...

stem on 750 wp is mahoosive in comparison to the gs stem. didnt have time to measure anything. castle nuts that you need a c-spanner on are the same, different nuts on the top though, 750 is threaded on the out side of the shaft and the gs is internal. uses the same bearings.

obviously for the sake of ease you press the stems out and use the gs stem in the 750 lower yoke, needs to be pressed from the top end down as there is a locking ring in the base.

now this bit i didnt foresee... they're meant to be like for like but the 750 stem is a couple thou larger so the gs stem fits no problem but its far from snug, it would be seriously dangerous to ride it like that. the guy with the press managed to find some shim material and get it fitted nicely. once again just didnt have time to take pics.



now with the lower fitted and the top yoke going on here's the next dilemma, because both yokes are a bit thicker albeit not that much the stem sits a bit lower through, its also a different diamater at the top to that of the top yoke.



so i made this wee alloy spacer up to take some of the slack, i will get something machined up to do the job better but it'll do for the short term. it was originally m6 and i had to bore it out to about m18, what a job when youre working with someone elses tools... tiiiiiime consuming  



and fitted, it takes up a great deal of the slack, probably 0.5-1mm out on the outer but im happy at that, it cant jiggle once the forks are on and it wont go anywhere once the bolts on but like i said i'll get a spacer machined up to do the job for the sake of doing it right.



steering stops, as you can see the 750 stops stop on the frame this will be remedied at a later date. steering angle is only slightly more than it was before and the bars are nowhere near the tank but it wont be acceptable for an MOT.

and boom, forks are on!







so front end is all loosely fitted 

next issue, the ignition switch fouls the lock on the frame.

the gs500 actually shares the same switch as the 750wp and piles of other parts bin suzukis. i had to get a gs500 switch and lock set for my 11 when i lost the key 

the lower edge was catching so it was ground down... with a cutting disk haha its all there was. and you can see the scraping in the middle so its been catching there, used the bench grinder to take down the switch just nibble by nibble test fitting fitting it every now and again till it was a comfortable fit.





quick splash of primer to stop it rusting up



opened up the switches mounting holes to about 7mm as well just to aid with fitment.



checked it again this morning and the primer has been rubbed off when pushing it home from the shed last night, so its still rubbing and needs addressed, looks to be just the pin area that i avoided itself now.



bar clearance on the preload adjusters isnt terrible but ill need to rase the bars to decrease the preload.



so here we go, this is its current state, everything loosely fitted, brakes on but not bled as i need to figure out if im using those brake lines and their routing.

currently not starting, think its a dodgy connection in the ignition circuit, ie killswitch/clutch switch or maybe the ignition switch itself.

when crossing the solenoid the starter spins and the plugs spark but it doesn't start, fuels definitely there. must've upset some electrical gremlins or some magic smoke has escaped from a wire  oh well, theres only so much testing you can do in the dark without a multimeter. yet to wire up the speedo again.



managed to lose the headlight brackets i was going to use so ive robbed these plates from another project mudguard imade up isnt gointg to work so needs some re-working or i'll find something else.

parked up beside the 11, basically the same front end. havent measured up the fork offset properly or height etc.

Hows the fork angle and trail? It looks a bit more raked but that could just be the photo angle.

Quote from: gregjet on September 05, 2016, 02:44:39 PM
Hows the fork angle and trail? It looks a bit more raked but that could just be the photo angle.

Yet to physically measure it all Greg but it's not a great deal different. Think it looks a bit extreme in the pic because the forks are to the left for the steering lock. Comparing it's side profile to that of a std gs it's not much difference, the forks being much chunkier adds to it looking odd. There's also less sag so the bikes sitting much prouder at the front than normal, changing its geo.

I think the offset was about 5-10mm different, only quickly checked it so I don't really remember. The forks are about 5mm shorter so it kind of aids in countering the offset. Still about 10mm higher than I ran it before. Once it's setup and settled it'll be fine. I suspect the numbers to tell a different story though, should be looking at decreased trail and inversely decreased rake due to the increased offset to begin with, well that's my understanding anyway

Small differences in steering geometry can have massive effects but it's fair to say the benifits of the front end will negate any down sides, gs forks and brakes are pitiful, kind of funny that it's went from comically undersprung to comically over sprung. Absolute overkill in every regard.

A lot of stuff goes around about how huge the feel of the bike will be when you make changes to the geometry, but in truth , most won't even be noticed on the road. All the stuff that goes around because of how track riders talk about how tiny changes made such and such a difference. On the track where you are searching for unit seconds or parts of a second perspective is a bit different. Moving you position on the seat ( loading up your panniers) can have as bigger a difference on the handling than a few mm of trail.
However, just noting that sport bikes have usually relatively shorter trail by virtue of both the offset and the head angle. The lower offset subtracted from the steeper head angle will prob mean pretty much still in the ball park anyway. Especially if sitting higher.
Do you have enough thicker land section to adjust the outers up and down?
Great swap and really looking forward to a ride report. My GS is a modernisation project but can't afford to graft a set of USD's ( if I could I would put them on my Yamaha MT07).
What you said about the quality of the fork action is the most relevant , I agree. The OEM's are pretty much 70's forks and quite poor made worse by being undersprung and under size. Tune these up and the bike should be MUCH better.

Quote from: gregjet on September 06, 2016, 02:28:34 PM
A lot of stuff goes around about how huge the feel of the bike will be when you make changes to the geometry, but in truth , most won't even be noticed on the road. All the stuff that goes around because of how track riders talk about how tiny changes made such and such a difference. On the track where you are searching for unit seconds or parts of a second perspective is a bit different. Moving you position on the seat ( loading up your panniers) can have as bigger a difference on the handling than a few mm of trail.
However, just noting that sport bikes have usually relatively shorter trail by virtue of both the offset and the head angle. The lower offset subtracted from the steeper head angle will prob mean pretty much still in the ball park anyway. Especially if sitting higher.
Do you have enough thicker land section to adjust the outers up and down?
Great swap and really looking forward to a ride report. My GS is a modernisation project but can't afford to graft a set of USD's ( if I could I would put them on my Yamaha MT07).
What you said about the quality of the fork action is the most relevant , I agree. The OEM's are pretty much 70's forks and quite poor made worse by being undersprung and under size. Tune these up and the bike should be MUCH better.

totally agree, with most things you're really only going to notice when pushing hard or chasing fractions of seconds. when you start to do lots of little things with an incline towards say track or spirited riding, ie stiffening up the std forks, braided lines, decent pads, raising the forks through, setting your sag right it really does change the feel of the bike. changing one thing will be noticeable but when you change a few things to start dialling it in the difference is unbelievable. must say out of all the bikes ive fettled with the gs, when you make changes seems really profound, to hazard a guess most of the gs's components are thrown together with nothing but budget in mind. i guess to me the changes i make are tailored for getting the feel right to me which generally means more aggressive and responsive.

dont really have any clearance for tinkering with fork height or preload at the moment, think ive got a pic.

with the amount of changes made, ie height, spring tension, tyre, offset and trail i cant really feel the change in offset or any one of the elements, its just completely different now and the only basis for comparison is the way i had it set up on the other forks.

height wise, it feels alright, when youre sitting on it theres about 20-25mm of sag so it drops a bit but the gs forks sag was ehm... well i never measured it but 40+mm surely, they were terrible. but yeah without messing with the preload yet the ride quality is actually really quite good.

ohhhh i do like an mt07  and i feel that! its a lot of money to throw into 'just' a gs isnt it, my only justification is still that i had the forks lying around but by the time i bought callipers, a wheel and discs it was a fair bit of money even though it was done as cheaply as possible. think i spent £30 on the front wheel with a decent tyre which is cheap cheap cheap.

about to post some pics etc but yeah had it out for about 5 minutes and the bike feels very planted and in that same breath its flicky but ive been riding the arse off the 11 for weeks so i cant make an accurate comparison.

couple of things to address.



ive had to take the bench grinder to the ign switch more times than i care to remember now haha, it finally seems to be sitting without messing with steering movement. had to take masses of material out for it to clear completely.



wee brackets made up to support the proper mudguard for the forks, nothing special.



shot of the rear tyre, still to get round to sorting the front sprocket offset, just haven't had the time.



one cleaned and re-oiled k&n



the throttle cable has been replaced and i balanced carbs for good measure too. werent too far out but its running noticeably sweeter.

//

had a bit of an issue getting the brakes to bleed it, 6 pots are notoriously a pain in the ass to bleed but that wasnt it. for some reason i had it stuck in my head that the gs used a 5/8 master and the cbr6 master i was using was a 5/8. well both are 1/2 master  so i wont get into it but in theory it makes the brakes stronger however there isnt enough lever travel to support it, its just lever to bar because there too much hydraulic advantage. the brakes still worked fairly well but there was no resistance in the lever really which gave it the strangest feeling.

so the 6pots call for a 5/8 master and i had a spare 14mm master. 1/2 = 12.7mm 5/8 = 15.8mm, the higher the number the stiffer the lever will be however it takes more effort to move the lever, the smaller the bore the less effort it takes to move the lever therefor giving you much more modulation and overall power.

(http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56704) << good bit of reading.

this is all stuff ive been curious about for a while but havent had the chance to experiment with, anyway heres the 14mm master.
this has been a massive improvement but im not too sure about the feel, theres still just not enough bite on the lever for me. some people use the 14mm as an upgrade on the 6pots but i find it lacking so i'll make an effort to find a 5/8 master at some point. perhaps a 15mm (ish) master would be better suited but there just isnt means of playing with the ratios cheaply.



its not the right reservoir so I've had to sketch up a bracket and make it work, quite like the angle it sits at but it means the fluid moves away from the hose on left handers, ive had the bike over and made sure its all still going to be safe though and there shouldnt be any problem as the hose retains fluid it just swirls about in the reservoir.

you'll also see how little space there is between the bars and the adjusters on the forks.









havent given the bike a proper shakedown as of yet but for the 5 minutes ive ridden it, it feels good. planted and flickable.  looking at it puts a smile on my face anyway, its just such a ridiculous build. also yet to wire the speedo back up 

barst lifted with ghetto raisers just showing the amount ive taken the pre-load out, was on marker 5 and now its on 8. took it right and and turned it in back a tweak as you're not meant to leave it fully out.



definitely feeling a bit better, yet to make note of the measurements but the rider sag looks okay and the static sag still isn't quite right but the forks seem to be settling now that they've been ridden a bit, not sure if thats in my head but a 2nd set of hands and a measuring tape wont lie.

hopefully got a hand to check it later and get the offset measurement etc  just want to do the math and see the geometry changes out of curiosity.

new can, bargain price  had been dented underneath and filled with weld and buffed back, tidy enough. danmoto gp extreme.



sketchy hanger  its the strap from the end of a scorpion carbon can that blew out. metal on metal because... i just dont care  but more importantly Anvil. yep, metal band puns.



nothing to spring it to and no springs so wired it up to a clamp



very deep sounding, very loud without a baffle, in fact far too loud. ran excellently. threw a baffle in and now its flattened out in the midrange so ill have to make some adjustments to the fuelling again. no biggie.

note: even baffled, its far too loud. and i cant believe i'm saying that. proper OBNOXIOUS.