I'm so frustrated, I called a mechanic but at the last minute they realized they couldn't pick up my bike. I'm stuck with this paperweight over the weekend now.

I haven't owned a vehicle since 1999. I have no specialized tools, and no one to help me except youtube.

Keeping that in mind, what are the things you'd check, starting from easiest and least likely to get me in trouble? The oil light manages to flash for a second before the fuse self-destructs. I looked at what wires I could see, didn't find anything obvious. If I really need a specialized tool, I could probably go out and buy one.

History:
1st ride: pretty stressful, actually
2nd ride: dropped it on right side, low speed. Broke tip of break lever.
3rd ride: uneventful
4th ride: Started, got half a block, died forever. Bike was wet with dew, if that matters.

before all that I had a headlight and left turn signal put in, on account of them being broke when I bought it.
It was a cheap bike
: /

One last question, I have to "verify" every time I post with a captcha I can barley read and 2 questions, is that going to happen every time, or can I turn it off?

Hi Antaresia, welcome to the forum !!

Ugh how frustrating, no doubt. I'm sorry to hear about your bike troubles. I'm not gonna pretend like I know a lot about vehicle electricals so hopefully others will reply soon to help you out.

Something I *can* actually clear up for ya is the captcha and questions... after your 5th post, they go away forever. It's an anti-spam thing to keep the forum nice 

Good luck !!!!

You shouldn't need much more than a wrench and some hex bits for a screw driver (allen wrenches work too) if your bike has fairings. You definitely have a short somewhere, which is what is causing the fuse to blow. The bike being wet with dew may have exacerbated the issue, bridging a connection or something. Look along all the wires you can see and see if you see any exposed wire or melted/burned insulation.  Common areas for shorts are turn signal/headlight/taillight leads, especially if any of those components are aftermarket.

So much janky aftermarket stuff on this bike. Air horn, extra break lights, an extra fuse by the battery for some reason.
It's like a horror movie come to life, I kinda want a Frankenstein decal for it.

These were not things I knew to look for when buying a bike. Being new to this is a painful experience.

and ShowBizWolf, thanks for welcome!

Quote from: Antaresia on September 23, 2016, 08:13:49 PM
So much janky aftermarket stuff on this bike. Air horn, extra break lights, an extra fuse by the battery for some reason.
It's like a horror movie come to life, I kinda want a Frankenstein decal for it.

These were not things I knew to look for when buying a bike. Being new to this is a painful experience.

Extra fuse? Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can shed some light on why that might be there.

Well, in any care, luckily this shouldn't be anything that requires an enormous amount of technical knowledge to rectify. I'd bet money one or more of the connections for those aftermarket electrical components are not insulated properly, causing a short that blows that fuse. Things to look for are electrical tape wrapped around wire connections.

That extra fuse might be having to do with some of the aftermarket stuff... or it could just be the spare that so often gets mistaken for the "real" fuse !!  Yes I'm being totally honest, there's a spare fuse on the GS that sometimes people think is the main one.

Don't beat yourself up over this... I didn't know anything to look for when I bought my bike... bought it off a long time family friend, could clearly see that it was beat up but that's how I buy vehicles... and I knew that whatever came along I would fix and learn along the way.

You're rescuing this GS and there is all you need to know on this forum... plus if you have the $$ buying a Haynes or Clymer manual for the bike is super helpful. That way you can see what everything *should* look like and by process of elimination see what shouldn't be on the bike/what has been tampered with.

I hope that makes sense, I'm finishing up my shift at work and I'm pretty darn tired 

Maybe not extra fuse..  blade fuse in plain sight alongside chassis rail?.. spare fuse..  pull it up and you see it's just in rubber holder. 

If however that isn't the spare then probably for an aftermarket item, I'd go for air horns maybe?..

My aftermarket bike alarm also has a spare fuse.

Shorted wire after a drop? , check around headstock.   Make sure the big bundle wires leading from front controls on either side haven't been bashed/pinched by anything in that area. . Maybe?

I should have clarified, it is an extra fuse for sure. Three in total, I found the main one in the red/green box (pain to open) and the spare right beside it. The extra on comes right off the battery wires, easy to see when I lift up the seat.  I don't think the bike has an alarm, but I wouldn't know what to look for. Got to be for the horn.

I'm going to look for those manuals. Is one better than the other?

will a 1989 -2002 Clymer work for my '08?

Sounds like someone has been altering and adding to the wiring. Its now no longer standard so its anyone's guess what the issue is and if the system is actually safe

This is not something for a novice you need help from someone who knows exactly what they are doing.

I would start by removing all the add on shaZam! and taking the wiring back to stock.

UPDATE:

It's something to do with the hand break? Probably.

We took apart the bundle of wires coming off the hand brake to the bike, didn't find any problems, wrapped it back up, and it started. I didn't fix the problem, my friend seems to think it's intermittent. But at least I can drive it to a shop now.

I'll probably try and take things apart even more later, but right now I owe my friend some beer and we're taking off. I already used up enough of his time, and it was nice him to try and help -_-

Any further advice at this point is still welcome, I have all day tomorrow to duck around.

This is the manual I would get for your '08... this link is also posted on the main page of the forum 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1844258815/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1844258815&linkCode=as2&tag=gstwincom

Keep us posted, I know I'm interested to know what's goin on with that fuse !!

Did you add any pics to the thread so far? I'm at work right now and sometimes pictures don't show up for me here on these computers. Would love to see the bike and the wiring you're trying to figure out.

no pictures, I still don't know what I'm doing, it's killing me. The shops are no help and I feel like I'm never going to ride this thing.

I did buy a Haynes manual on ebay, but it'll be a while before it gets here. If anyone has ANY photos they can send that mignt be of help, or youtube videos of how to take this stuff apart & check the wires (I culdn't find any), I'd be really appricative.  I feel like this might be a simple fix but I have no experience with bikes and still have no help.

I'm VERY VERY desperate for any help. The problem might be the hand break since it took some impact when I dropped it - the tip smashed off.

You need some very basic electrical troubleshooting theory to start. Forgive me if this is beneath you Just trying to help.

If you are blowing the main fuse then one of only a small number of things is likely causing it:

1. it's a nuisance trip ... that is, the fuse is undersized for the ordinary current draw and it trips under normal use. This is highly unlikely but if you replaced the main fuse (whatever it is) with a 1.0 amp fuse, then this could be it. This should be easy to eliminate.

2. you have a dead short between power and ground somewhere, and if it's blowing the main fuse then most likely it's somewhere that is not behind its own fuse. Remember all of the frame and engine are "ground", so a power wire touching the frame or engine will be a dead short.

Let's deal with #2. First, look at this post for the wiring diagram. I presume you have an "E" and not an "F" but I don't know.

Anyway, if you look at this diagram, then you will see there are precious few fuses (I only found one!) so any +12V wire can potentially be the source of your short that causes the fuse to blow.

First step is to disconnect whatever you can disconnect starting with connections closest to the battery. Looking at the wiring diagram, I'd say disconnect the ignition switch connector (you'll have to find it by tracing wires on the bike or google-fu) and also the regulator/rectifier. If you blow the fuse with those connectors disconnected, then the problem is between the battery and those two connectors. If the fuse doesn't blow with those disconnected, then connect the regulator/rectifier. If that doesn't blow the fuse, then you need to disconnect stuff downstream from the ignition switch next. That's basically every other connector. Then once that's all disconnected, reconnect the ignition switch. If that doesn't blow the fuse, then proceed to connect each connector in sequence until you find the circuit that blows the fuse. Then debug that circuit.

BTW the brake light switch is on the back of the engine start/stop switch connector so if when you connect that it blows the fuse then that may confirm your suspicion that the switch is bad. You could have the high side switch terminal shorted to ground somewhere due to crushing. You could start by just disconnecting this connector and see if your fuse holds, if you really suspect this is the problem.

Now, the truth is, if it were me, I'd use 1/4" fast-on connectors to jumper a 35W / 12V light bulb in place of the fuse. But I already have a light bulb with wires soldered on that I use for this kind of debugging all the time. Then if the light bulb glows bright, you have found your short. It will save you from blowing fuses constantly while you search for the issue. I would go in reverse, disconnecting each connector one at a time until the light goes out. Once I found the connector that was the cause of the problem, I'd use a multimeter to measure resistance between the terminals on the connector that are at +12V and ground, to identify exactly which wire/component was shorted. But this is not my first rodeo. In fact I have a patent on a fuse!

Quote from: mr72
You need some very basic electrical troubleshooting theory to start. Forgive me if this is beneath you Just trying to help.

*nothing* is beneath me, I'm very new to every part of this.

Quote from: mr72Let's deal with #2. First, look at this post for the wiring diagram

I get the basic idea, but it still seems pretty abstract to me. I have no idea how to find those wires on the bike or follow them - I need a tutorial on how to take my bike apart.

Quote from: mr72I presume you have an "E" and not an "F"

correct. I actually have 2 fuses (and one spare), some sort of aftermarket nonsense.

Quote from: mr72First step is to disconnect whatever you can disconnect starting with connections closest to the battery.

aaaaaand I'm stuck again. I'm not sure what to do here, is there a how-to somewhere?  A list with pictures? I don't know what "whatever you can disconnect" looks like or how to find it.

Quote from: mr72Looking at the wiring diagram, I'd say disconnect the ignition switch connector

I think I know what it looks like, but I can't figure out how to find it.

Quote from: mr72proceed to connect each connector in sequence

What sequence?

Quote from: mr72the brake light switch is on the back of the engine start/stop switch connector so if when you connect that it blows the fuse then that may confirm your suspicion that the switch is bad. You could have the high side switch terminal shorted to ground somewhere due to crushing. You could start by just disconnecting this connector and see if your fuse holds, if you really suspect this is the problem.

I'm not sure how the system would run if something part of the electical system is disconnected, isn't it a circut? But that dosen't matter. How do I get to this connector?

Quote from: mr72Now, the truth is, if it were me, I'd use 1/4" fast-on connectors to jumper a 60W light bulb in place of the fuse. But I already have a light bulb with wires soldered on that I use for this kind of debugging all the time. Then if the light bulb glows bright, you have found your short. It will save you from blowing fuses constantly while you search for the issue. I would go in reverse, disconnecting each connector one at a time until the light goes out. Once I found the connector that was the cause of the problem, I'd use a multimeter to measure resistance between the terminals on the connector that are at +12V and ground, to identify exactly which wire/component was shorted. But this is not my first rodeo. In fact I have a patent on a fuse!

1) I'd love to make one of those those lightbulb testers, are there instructions somewhere? How do you connect it to the bikes system, do you cut open wires or solder it to a fuse or what?

2) is it really safe to be messing around with an electrical system that's plugged in and running?

That's a lot of questions, but I have a feeling this is a very basic problem - I just need very basic instructions. Things that are obvious to a lot of you are not obvious to me.

Quote from: Antaresia on September 27, 2016, 04:54:23 PM
I get the basic idea, but it still seems pretty abstract to me. I have no idea how to find those wires on the bike or follow them - I need a tutorial on how to take my bike apart.

See the GS500 wiki for information on taking the bike apart. But at the most basic, you need to take off the seat, which will expose the battery. Presumably you have gotten that far. Then take off the side covers to expose more wiring. There will be a big wiring bundle that runs along the frame between the engine and the tank up to the hand controls and headlight/signals. That bundle should be contained in a loom (that is, sort of a split tube that is ordinarily covered in electrical tape) but you can see the colors of the wires going in one side and find those colors on the other end and match them up. The wiring diagram also has color codes on it which may or may not be accurate.

To chase the wire, start with the battery and follow the positive terminal. That's a red line on the wiring diagram. You should follow that wire until it terminates in some kind of connector. That's one of the connectors indicated on the wiring diagram. Then follow the wires coming from the other side of the connector to see where they go, you can see if it's going to the regulator or to the ignition switch, etc. It's just a matter of following wires to where they go, and matching colors when they disappear from view (like under the tank). It's not difficult.

Quote

Quote from: mr72First step is to disconnect whatever you can disconnect starting with connections closest to the battery.

aaaaaand I'm stuck again. I'm not sure what to do here, is there a how-to somewhere?  A list with pictures? I don't know what "whatever you can disconnect" looks like or how to find it.

They are connectors. They are indicated on the wiring diagram by sort of long split gray rectangles, like the one on the upper left near all of the light bulbs. On the motorcycle, they will be some kind of cable termination that connects one set of wires to another. Of course, there's nothing to say over the past 20+ years someone hasn't modified or repaired one or another of them so you might have to use some deductive reasoning by following the actual wires to see where they go. But generally speaking, wires go from the battery, to a connector, then from the other side of that connector to other stuff like lights or ignition switch or whatever. You have to dig in there and work it out.

Quote

Quote from: mr72Looking at the wiring diagram, I'd say disconnect the ignition switch connector

I think I know what it looks like, but I can't figure out how to find it.

Follow the wire from the battery. It will lead to the connector, or it will lead to some kind of junction with other wires, one of which leads to the connector. Use the logical wiring diagram as a guide to help you find it. Think of the wiring diagram kind of like a subway map. It's not literal, it just tells you what goes where. In the real world, the location of those things may be who knows where, you just follow the line until you find it.

I can't give you specific instructions because I haven't chased these specific wires. But this is extremely simple compared with, say, a car.

Quote

Quote from: mr72proceed to connect each connector in sequence

What sequence?

The sequence you pick. Just do them one at a time. Each one you connect will turn on that circuit, and if you blow the fuse when you connect one, then you will have located the circuit that has the short in it. Now each circuit may have a handful of places where a short could occur, which is why you have to inspect that circuit. This is just a way to narrow down the candidates.

Quote
I'm not sure how the system would run if something part of the electical system is disconnected, isn't it a circut? But that dosen't matter. How do I get to this connector?

In a motorcycle, all of these circuits are connected in parallel. Everything runs off of the same 12V supply. It's not like Christmas lights that may be in series where pulling one thing out disconnects the current from the rest. You can disconnect everything except, say, the regulator, and you will have the charge circuit connected and nothing else. The bike won't start but you'll know if you have a short in the regulator. Then connect the next thing (ignition switch, for example), and now the starter will turn and the battery will charge but you won't have any lights if everything else is disconnected. etc.

How you get to or find the connector is by taking stuff apart and following the wires.

Quote

Quote from: mr72Now, the truth is, if it were me, I'd use 1/4" fast-on connectors to jumper a 60W light bulb in place of the fuse. ...

1) I'd love to make one of those those lightbulb testers, are there instructions somewhere? How do you connect it to the bikes system, do you cut open wires or solder it to a fuse or what?

That's probably above your pay grade currently If you don't understand automatically how to make it and how to use it, then you probably should do it the other way and just blow through fuses. I mostly posted that in case other, more experienced, forum members were reading along and might want some more advanced troubleshooting ideas.

Quote
2) is it really safe to be messing around with an electrical system that's plugged in and running?

I wouldn't do any of this with the motorcycle running. And to keep from draining the battery, keep the ignition off until you are testing that circuit, and maybe even consider disconnecting the headlight.

Now whether it's safe? You are not going to get shocked with 12 volts. I mean, if you touched your tongue to it, you'd feel a buzz like a 9V battery but with your hands, you won't get shocked any more than you get shocked handling a 9V battery with bare hands.

The other hazard is fire or explosion (battery). The battery is a near-infinite current source so if you had a short WITH NO FUSE then it would be able to start a fire really quick and if you inadvertently shorted the battery terminals directly, like say by putting an open-end wrench across the terminals, then it would be possible to not only start a fire but maybe explode. So, don't do that! You want to be careful not to lay tools around or especially NEVER LAY TOOLS NEAR THE BATTERY. The floor is a good spot for your tools Or a nearby workbench or table. But DO NOT set them on the fender or area under the seat while you are working, one day one of them WILL roll down across the battery terminals and you may have very bad things happening.

BUT none of what I suggested involves actually using tools. You may use a 10mm nut driver to remove the side panels on your bike and you will use the key to pull the seat and then you put the tools away and go chasing wires and disconnecting connectors BY HAND. You won't shock yourself and if you inadvertently short something, it will blow the main fuse. IF you do inadvertently short something or blow the main fuse then you will have also found the source of your short, since nothing should be exposed enough to cause a short, even with a connector disconnected or while moving wires. Anything that can short when you jostle it manually can and will short while the bike is running.

Anyway, the point is, it's the fuse's job to prevent a fire, and the fact that you haven't set your butt on fire while riding proves that it is working

Whatever you do, don't put a bigger fuse in, I think it calls for 20A, and use only a 20A. Putting in bigger fuse will create a fire hazard, especially when you know you have a short. You can remove the fuse and it will remove power from the entire circuit except for the part between the battery and the fuse. Then you will know you are not working on a live circuit.

This isn't like 120VAC in your house. 120VAC, the biggest risk is electric shock, and fire is secondary. In a 12VDC system there's minimal/no risk of electric shock but a huge risk of fire if not properly fused. Fortunately your bike IS properly fused and you don't seem foolish enough to try and do something to break that.

All good intentions etc but make it easy on yourself.

Find a decent mobile auto electrician and give him a call........ If he doesnt bottom it in a hour I will drop my pants in the nearest Walmart 

You are a saint for putting up with me, thank you for answering all that 

Quote from: mr72and matching colors when they disappear from view (like under the tank). It's not difficult.

So that means I don't have to take the tank off? I figured that might have to happen and I wasn't excited about it. It's getting into the headset stuff that's the most difficult for me, I think the problem might be in that area since the hand brake took a hit.

Quote from: mr72In a motorcycle, all of these circuits are connected in parallel. Everything runs off of the same 12V supply. It's not like Christmas lights that may be in series where pulling one thing out disconnects the current from the rest. You can disconnect everything except, say, the regulator, and you will have the charge circuit connected and nothing else. The bike won't start but you'll know if you have a short in the regulator. Then connect the next thing (ignition switch, for example), and now the starter will turn and the battery will charge but you won't have any lights if everything else is disconnected. etc.

This is really helpful!

Quote from: mr72That's probably above your pay grade currently

aww.  I have soldered stuff in the past. I went over to my friend's house, we had a few beers and he taught me how. I did a good job at it! I would get his help to make it, I taught him how to sew so he owes me one XD
But blowing through fuses is okay too, they're cheap.

Quote from: mr72NEVER LAY TOOLS NEAR THE BATTERY.

This is also very helpful, I could see myself doing that.

Quote from: sledgeIf he doesnt bottom it in a hour I will drop my pants in the nearest Walmart

Kinky. Jokes aside, I've been looking but I've had bad luck. The shop I called canclled my motorcycle tow...twice.  The mobile mechanic I did find didn't think he could help. If I don't figure this out I'll try a bit harder.

Good news is I found someone to help me out a bit, my friend's boyfriend's roommate's friend is coming over Saturday to go over things.

Bad news is I have a different problem now. The bike starts. Yes, that's a problem because I didn't *fix* anything, just replaced the fuse (after blowing 3 in a row). So now there is nothing to test...just look for visiual damage. BUT all this advice is still super important because I know it's going to short again, the problem is friggin' LURKING now, just waiting to strand me at an inconvenient time.

And once again THANKS, everyone!!

Quote from: Antaresia on September 28, 2016, 11:11:11 AM
So that means I don't have to take the tank off? I figured that might have to happen and I wasn't excited about it. It's getting into the headset stuff that's the most difficult for me, I think the problem might be in that area since the hand brake took a hit.

Removing the tank is not hard, but I don't like having to do it either (seems I have my carburetors off almost daily). But you should be able to figure out which wires go where underneath the tank without removing it.

Quote
aww.  I have soldered stuff in the past. I went over to my friend's house, we had a few beers and he taught me how. I did a good job at it! I would get his help to make it, I taught him how to sew so he owes me one XD

Well you could take two lengths of 12ga stranded wire, and crimp one of these on one end of each wire:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-Blue-16-14-AWG-0-250-M-Disconnects-15-Pack-15-143M/202523007

Then take one wire and solder the other end to the "tip" part of a 60W incandescent light bulb (don't try this with a compact fluorescent or LED), and solder the other wire to the "ring" (screw thread looking) part of the same light bulb. Do something to make sure you don't short the bulb to ground or to itself, such as wrap the exposed metal in electrical tape (Kapton tape would be best, but hey, you don't have it). Now you can plug each of the 1/4" fast-on connectors (the blue thingies) into one side of the fuse socket, so the light bulb will effectively be your "fuse". If you do this, first disconnect the headlight bulb and DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START THE MOTORCYCLE with the bulb in there. It probably won't hurt anything it just won't turn over, might blow the light bulb, etc. Anyway, if you have a short, the light bulb will glow noticeably. If you don't have a short, the light bulb will be dim or not noticeable. Once you sort out your problem, put the proper fuse back. And hook your headlight back up.

I still recommend you do it the other way, just blow the fuse a few times looking for the problem. Safer, less likely you inadvertently short out the bulb to the bike frame etc.

Quote
Bad news is I have a different problem now. The bike starts. Yes, that's a problem because I didn't *fix* anything, just replaced the fuse (after blowing 3 in a row). So now there is nothing to test...just look for visiual damage. BUT all this advice is still super important because I know it's going to short again, the problem is friggin' LURKING now, just waiting to strand me at an inconvenient time.

That's what we'd call an intermittent short. If you REALLY THINK it's the brake lever switch then you can disconnect the front brake switch at the handlebar. That'll rule it out absolutely. More likely IMHO it's a wire somewhere with the insulation worn through or broken and it's touching the frame or handlebar or fork or something else that's grounded and causing a short when it gets in the right position. With an intermittent problem it's really easy to convince yourself you fixed it even if you haven't.

Like Sledge said, someone who knows what they are doing can find this in just a few minutes. I'm sure if you had the bike over here at my house I could find it quickly. Likewise someone who knew what they were doing could sort out my carburetors in no time. But most of us are stuck working on this by ourselves. Maybe your friend's roommate's girlfriend's brother's uncle or whatever will be able to help.

Quote from: Antaresia on September 28, 2016, 11:11:11 AM
...

Good news is I found someone to help me out a bit, my friend's boyfriend's roommate's friend is coming over Saturday to go over things.
...

Gotta love that super obscure relationship repairman. I've been the "friends brother's roomate's cousin's friend who knows computer stuff" (or some other such weird relationship) for people many times. Make sure he gets a beer for helping you lol.

Anyway, as for actual help, if you think the short is near the brake lever, you may also want to inspect the left hand control. Disassemble it (just 2 screws, no biggie) and ensure that the insulation around all the wires coming from it is intact.

Since you were messing with the wiring around the "brake side" (right side) of the handlebar, that has me wondering if it's the starter mechanism playing up a little.  It could still be a bad wire in the plastic housing there, so don't be too quick to dismiss that.  Also, the bundle of wires coming out of that plastic housing heads back toward the battery and there's a starter relay back on the right side of the bike sort of next to the battery under the bodywork.  That's a direct connection from the battery and it's "hot" whether the key is on or not, so be careful poking around in there unless you like sparks.  Disconnect the battery first and then inspect those connections/wires (on the relay) for bare wiring or poor connections.