Everything you buy is a trade-off -- believe me, I am the non-committal buyer that gets "anxiety" over the plethora of options available (Thanks Internet  ).  Anytime someone says something is good, it is nearly 100% implied that it is "for what it is".

My point on the Ferrari analogy earlier was that everything is good for what its intended purpose is...A Ferrari will be kick ass on the track or long stretches of open road, but will be rendered useless with snow.  An AWD SUV will do better in the snow, but you are not going to be winning many 1/4mi races.

If one bike out there was The. Best. Bike. Period. It would drive out all other competition over time and this forum would become defunct.

Quote from: qcbaker on February 07, 2017, 07:23:45 AM
You're kind of missing Watcher's point I think. All those sportbikes (except for the CBR500 obviously) have more than 100 fewer CCs than the GS, and all make similar power.

Well they make somewhat less power (except the CBR500) and are only slightly lighter. But they are also a decade newer than the newest GS500, and most of them have had a recent model refresh. They almost all have far superior suspension to the newest GS500. Basically the GS500 can't really be compared fairly with any bike with year-2000+ technology because it's essentially a 90s era bike that was stretched into the 2000s.

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So, calling the GS "competitive" with them is a bit strange.

I agree. They are "competitive" only in terms of numbers on paper. There's not a lot, if anything, in literally the same class as a GS500 today, but to be fair you'd really have to compare any GS500 with its contemporary rivals which is why I originally mentioned another list of other 90s naked street bikes in the 40-50hp range.

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But that's because like we said earlier, the GS isn't a "real" sportbike. So its a false equivalency. The GS isn't in the same class as those bikes.

Agreed.

I still don't like "for what it is".

Y'all aren't talking me out of it.

Quote from: mr72 on February 07, 2017, 08:53:50 AM
I agree. They are "competitive" only in terms of numbers on paper. There's not a lot, if anything, in literally the same class as a GS500 today, but to be fair you'd really have to compare any GS500 with its contemporary rivals which is why I originally mentioned another list of other 90s naked street bikes in the 40-50hp range.

If you're comparing it solely with other 90's bikes in that class, then I agree: call the GS a great bike, without any qualifiers. But someone buying a bike today has way more options and you have to compare the GS to all the bikes on the market. So, ignoring the point I was making earlier about classifying the bike (which I think is a big part of why people add the qualifier) and talking about comparing solely to bikes in its class, of all the newer bikes you named there, I think only the CBR500R is a fair comparison to the GS500F. Its basically the CB500F (500CC parallel twin, sporty standard bike, like the GS500E) with a different set of bodywork. I would call them "in the same class" for sure. Yes, The CBR is ~10 years newer, but still.

CBR500R  HP: 49.6
CBR500R Torque: 31.7 lb ft

GS500F HP: 40.5 hp
GS500F Torque: 26.7 lb ft

They make similar power, with the CBR having a bit of an edge. So, an older bike being "competitive" in terms of raw power with a brand new bike? I'd call that "great." But it doesn't include any of the modern luxuries the CBR has: EFI, ABS, adjustable preload, digital dash, fuel gauge, etc. People add "for what it is" so the person knows it cant really be a direct comparison with the CBR, but a cheaper alternative that offers similar performance, just without some of the luxuries, due to the difference in age.

The GS500 is like a great but very old movie. Example: Citizen Kane was a great movie when it came out. Comparing to other movies of the period, it shines. It can be called great with no qualifiers. By today's standards of filmmaking, it doesn't really hold up. It's not in color, modern acting is much more believable, etc. So, its "a great movie for what it is". Same with the GS. Compared to the other middleweight standards, its an awesome bike. But by today's standards, its a bit lacking.

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I still don't like "for what it is".

Y'all aren't talking me out of it.

That's fine. I get where you're coming from, but I just felt I should explain the mentality of the phrase.

Engine size/configuration is still a major defining characteristic when it comes to motorcycle "class".  You wouldn't put an R1 in with an R6.

300s are included in, and surely set to replace, the 250 class.
The RC390 is a bit of an oddball since it's close to 400cc; it's typically roped in with these but I don't think it should be, I got a chance to ride one a few weeks ago, it makes a good amount of power.  It should be compared to the CBR500R.

The CB500, the GS500, the SV650 (keep in mind these are being made again), even the FZ07, these are the same "class" as middleweight "commuter" type bikes or "naked standard".  500-700cc twins.

So when I bring up that a 300 makes only a few HP/TQ less than the GS500 I'm not saying it in a way that could compare the bike's purpose.
I'm saying "the GS500 is being encroached by a bike in a smaller class."


The GS and CB are very much equivalent, but considering the GS was made up until 2013 which is when the CB500F hit the floor it's a really hard race for the GS.
A new rider going at both of these bikes new would be hard pressed NOT to go CB.
The CB is basically the GS replacement.  Modern styling, more power, EFI, liquid cooled, and optional ABS, in a lighter bike on top of that.

Plus, re: the numbers, the CB engine spins slower and makes its peak figures at lower RPMs than the GS.  That's all done on purpose by Honda, they wanted to make the power more available for around town.  I've no doubt they could make higher numbers if they wanted to, but it made sense for a commuter.
Having owned both at one point or another I can say the Honda felt a lot more linear and had more "go" at the twist of your wrist.  While the GS doesn't spin a lot faster or make its power at much higher RPMs, it was a noticeable difference coming from one and going to the other.  The GS likes to be wound up, and most cases of needing speed required a downshift.  The CB did often need a downshift if you wanted to get up and go, but in the middle of the rev range you CAN just goose it and get somewhere.

The GS is what it is, an old machine that was produced perhaps longer than it should have been.

This thread is drifting a bit... If we want to keep talking about bikes and classes, maybe we should go start an OaE thread lol.

Quote from: qcbaker on February 07, 2017, 12:51:38 PM
This thread is drifting a bit... If we want to keep talking about bikes and classes, maybe we should go start an OaE thread lol.

OaE?


Yeah, we did get more than a little off topic.  Someone call a US Marshal, this thread has been hijacked!

Quote from: qcbaker on February 07, 2017, 12:51:38 PM
This thread is drifting a bit... If we want to keep talking about bikes and classes, maybe we should go start an OaE thread lol.

Ototacoustic Emissions ? Ohio Assessment of Educators?

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Yeah, we did get more than a little off topic.  Someone call a US Marshal, this thread has been hijacked!

LoL. I caused that.

Really sorry I brought it up.

My bad.

Quote from: Watcher on February 07, 2017, 02:54:30 PM
OaE?

Quote from: mr72 on February 07, 2017, 03:09:55 PM
Ototacoustic Emissions ? Ohio Assessment of Educators?

Odds and Ends. I meant Odds and Ends. lol sorry, I shouldve just typed it out.

Hahaha that's awesome, you guys are super funny sometimes I knew exactly what that meant but I got a kick outta everything else it could have meant 

Quote from: mr72 on February 07, 2017, 03:09:55 PM

Quote from: qcbaker on February 07, 2017, 12:51:38 PM
This thread is drifting a bit...

Really sorry I brought it up.

My bad.

You should never feel bad about starting interesting conversation.  Even though we could say it was in the wrong place how many people were actually interested in what had to be said?

Quote from: mr72 on February 07, 2017, 03:09:55 PM

Quote from: qcbaker on February 07, 2017, 12:51:38 PM
This thread is drifting a bit... If we want to keep talking about bikes and classes, maybe we should go start an OaE thread lol.

Ototacoustic Emissions ? Ohio Assessment of Educators?

Quote
Yeah, we did get more than a little off topic.  Someone call a US Marshal, this thread has been hijacked!

LoL. I caused that.

Really sorry I brought it up.

My bad.

sorry i said, "for what it is" and got him all riled up.