I am having a bit of an issue with pain in my left hand while riding my GS.

I have KX-Hi bend handlebars which are much wider than the stock GS500 bars but about the same height at about 4.5". My right hand is fine but after a half hour or more on the bike my left hand gets very sore. I think part of it is that the left hand has to operate the clutch, but I suspect that's not the whole problem.

What solutions should I try? Do I need to cut an inch off the handlebars? Is there anything I can do to reduce clutch effort? Maybe some riser blocks?

I don't think there's a way to reduce clutch effort unless you got a custom cam made with more leverage on it.  But perhaps adjusting the lever so the engagement happens closer to full release would mean you don't need to pull it in as far to shift or stop.

One thing you might want to consider is not just the height and width of the bars but the angle of the ends.  If they are too straight or too bent towards you it might be setting your wrist at an odd angle and that could lead to a weakened grasp.

I've noticed cramping in my left hand while riding in the past, but have found that for me it's just from being too tense. If I loosen up my grip on the bars it helps considerably. The more frequently I ride, and the more comfortable I feel on the bike, the less cramping I notice. I'm not sure if you're experiencing the same issue or not, but hopefully this helps.

Josh, I would try and make certain it is the clutch lever first.....maybe try and find an open road and just cruise for 30 minutes or so? I don't know if your half hour ride is in the country or commuting thru town though.

I don't know anything about them, but there are hydraulic clutch kits (?) that should be able to fit a GS500. I recall somebody on the GSResources swapping their cable system for hydraulic.

Of course, new bars are cheap and relatively easy to try out too. Hope you get it figured out soon though.

Thanks for the input, let's keep it coming.

A little more info:

I'm also not entirely sure it's the clutch, it just seems an obvious starting point since that's one thing unique to my left hand.

The pain is mostly in or around the "abductor digiti minimi" muscle, which is the outside edge of the palm between my wrist and my pinky. I have shorty levers so I am not pulling the clutch lever with my pinky at all.

Looking at my grip and hand position, it's clear that I'm not pulling the clutch lever with my pinky and I'm also not really using my index finger much but to simply rest in a relaxed way on the lever. I have developed mostly a relaxed grip and technique of operating the lever with my middle finger primarily even though I actually put my 1-3 fingers on the lever. I think this comes from many years of mountain biking, it's muscle memory.

I have adjustable shorty levers and I have them adjusted for the minimum static distance from the bar. I also went through a careful clutch adjustment to get it so that it has the minimum amount of pull required to disengage, to the extent that it drags every so slightly when pulled all the way. I've worked to try and reduce this pain by getting the minimum practical clutch pull.

I also don't grip the handlebar with my index finger or pinky much. I am not holding tight to the grip and I'm also not really putting weight on my hands. Again, I have decades of mountain bike experience so I am quite comfortable with handlebars and I'm pretty good at finding the right fit and position. I do note that all of these motorcycle handlebars are a LOT wider than even the widest mountain bike bars. I kind of think that if I could get bars made like my mountain bike bars for the GS I'd be a lot more comfortable. They are 25.2" wide (640mm) and 9 degree sweep. MC handlebars are annoyingly not measured in the same way and it's virtually impossible to do the math and figure out the sweep angle of MC bars. My bars are about 800mm wide which is a huge 6.3" wider. I wonder if this is not most of the problem, I just need a narrower handlebar.

This is my third handlebar on this bike. Seems like it won't be long before I'll have spent more on handlebars than on the rest of the bike Of course I went through probably a half dozen different handlebars on my mountain bike before I found "the one".

Do you have a long torso? I get shoulder pain on the left side, due to the stock sized handle bars on the GS not being low enough, or not being high enough. Lower I do better, higher I do better. its dem stock bars.

Quote from: J_Walker on April 25, 2017, 03:09:34 PM
Do you have a long torso?

No. On the contrary, I have longer arms (and legs) than average for someone my height.

QuoteI get shoulder pain on the left side, due to the stock sized handle bars on the GS not being low enough, or not being high enough. Lower I do better, higher I do better. its dem stock bars.

Yeah, I get that. I was just generally uncomfortable, too much weight on my hands, with the "Superbike" bars I had originally, so I got some taller ones. The height seems about right.

OK not proclaiming myself as an expert, first and formost. That's a dangerous thing to do. However , Bicycle and motorcycle experience, I have in abundance . Cycling and MTB coach as well.
THE most likely cause of hand pain or tingleing and arm problems is incorrect hand/forearm angle. The top of the hand should be in the same plane as the forearm. That is NO KINK at the wrist . NOT up nor down. One will occlude nervs the other blood supply. Both of which cause pain or tingling. Sit on the bike and ensure your hand comes straight inline with the forearm . Clutch position up or down can make this difficult , so make sure you can comfortable lay your fingers in a straight line on the top of the lever. Do whatever it takes to achieve that.
Next is shoulder hunching. This pinches the arm and hand nerves . Ensure your shoulders are relaxed and your elbows down. Pull them down if you have to. On the same theme ensure you can comfortably look out of you helmet without putting you neck at a strained angle. Too big a helmet can do this, or a visor upper horizon that is too low for you head and eys shape.
Bar angle . This is often a big problem for women riders as they tend to have a greater natural angle from straight line for their hand axis. Trick: sit on the bike with rider and bike upright . You will need someone to hold the bike up. in the natural riding position AND looking straight ahead, grasp a rod in your hand as if it was a handlebar as close to the grips as possible. That is your natural angle that doesn't put a load on spots it shouldn't. It is usually tilted down to the outside and swept back. Both of those angles are important. Try and get the grips as close to that angle as possible. It can be difficult to impossible. There is also a good chance that left and right are not the same angle. single piece bars mean that there will always be a compromise when attempting to get it dead right. With clipons small angle differences can be more easily accomodated.
Don't overload your arms. Nor make it too difficult to load the bars by being too high. If you are a mountainbiker you will probably have come across the comment of even loading on hands and feet. If you lift yourself off the seat slightly ( remember it;s a road motorcycle not a dirt one) your hands and feet should share the load roughly equally.
Having said all that, the most likely cause is wrist kink by far.
PS if you move the levers in so your two main fingers are on the end of the lever , you reduce the effort by the increased leverage. This applies to mtb's as well.

Quote from: gregjet on April 25, 2017, 03:29:19 PM
OK not proclaiming myself as an expert, first and formost. That's a dangerous thing to do. However , Bicycle and motorcycle experience, I have in abundance . Cycling and MTB coach as well.
THE most likely cause of hand pain or tingleing and arm problems is incorrect hand/forearm angle. The top of the hand should be in the same plane as the forearm. That is NO KINK at the wrist . NOT up nor down. One will occlude nervs the other blood supply. Both of which cause pain or tingling. Sit on the bike and ensure your hand comes straight inline with the forearm . Clutch position up or down can make this difficult , so make sure you can comfortable lay your fingers in a straight line on the top of the lever. Do whatever it takes to achieve that.
Next is shoulder hunching. This pinches the arm and hand nerves . Ensure your shoulders are relaxed and your elbows down. Pull them down if you have to. On the same theme ensure you can comfortably look out of you helmet without putting you neck at a strained angle. Too big a helmet can do this, or a visor upper horizon that is too low for you head and eys shape.
Bar angle . This is often a big problem for women riders as they tend to have a greater natural angle from straight line for their hand axis. Trick: sit on the bike with rider and bike upright . You will need someone to hold the bike up. in the natural riding position AND looking straight ahead, grasp a rod in your hand as if it was a handlebar as close to the grips as possible. That is your natural angle that doesn't put a load on spots it shouldn't. It is usually tilted down to the outside and swept back. Both of those angles are important. Try and get the grips as close to that angle as possible. It can be difficult to impossible. There is also a good chance that left and right are not the same angle. single piece bars mean that there will always be a compromise when attempting to get it dead right. With clipons small angle differences can be more easily accomodated.
Don't overload your arms. Nor make it too difficult to load the bars by being too high. If you are a mountainbiker you will probably have come across the comment of even loading on hands and feet. If you lift yourself off the seat slightly ( remember it;s a road motorcycle not a dirt one) your hands and feet should share the load roughly equally.
Having said all that, the most likely cause is wrist kink by far.
PS if you move the levers in so your two main fingers are on the end of the lever , you reduce the effort by the increased leverage. This applies to mtb's as well.

so what's shoulder pain? I clinch with my knees on the tank, and don't ride with a backpack. so would you say it was still the handlebars? or the seat height?

Thanks for your detailed response!

Quote from: gregjet on April 25, 2017, 03:29:19 PM
THE most likely cause of hand pain or tingleing and arm problems is incorrect hand/for
earm angle. The top of the hand should be in the same plane as the forearm. That is NO KINK at the wrist . NOT up nor down.

Yeah this is definitely not the problem I am having. Also I have no numbness. It's just soreness, almost like a muscle ache, at the outside edge of my palm. I have already done everything you suggest to get the hand position right, in fact I did all of this when I first got the motorcycle before even riding it.

Funny thing is I see motorcycles in shops with the brake and clutch levers adjusted so they are almost parallel with the ground. I think they do that so the mirrors don't wind up at funny angles. But who would ride that way?

Quote
Next is shoulder hunching. This pinches the arm and hand nerves . Ensure your shoulders are relaxed and your elbows down. Pull them down if you have to. On the same theme ensure you can comfortably look out of you helmet without putting you neck at a strained angle. Too big a helmet can do this, or a visor upper horizon that is too low for you head and eys shape.

Yeah I also don't do any of this. 1-2K of mountain biking a year for a couple of decades, I am pretty good at body position on a two-wheel vehicle.

Quote
Bar angle .

In MTB terms we call this "sweep" and actually I think this may be related to my problem. I had similar pain in my hands (both of them) on my MTB until I finally found bars with a 9-10 degree sweep. If only motorcycle bar manufacturers would put up a spec for sweep. This whole "pullback" thing makes no sense in terms of your hand's natural angle, but I see why they do it that way since the problem most people may be solving is reach, while on a bicycle you get the frame fit for your body then you don't worry about that. MCs are one size fits all.

Quote
PS if you move the levers in so your two main fingers are on the end of the lever , you reduce the effort by the increased leverage. This applies to mtb's as well.

Yeah I think I may try that. I wonder if I'm not naturally using the outermost edge of the grip so I can get my index and middle fingers on the lever, maybe that's the cause of the problem. I have thought about moving the levers so that I get more of my mountain-bike-style two-finger contact on them as opposed to the three-finger way they are now.

I tilted the bar down/back a little bit and rode today. Outside of the handlebar is a little lower and the whole thing is maybe 1/2" closer to me.

Seems to have helped a little bit. Still not perfect, but less pain than yesterday.

Hunching your shoulders pinches the nerve for the arm , particularly on the left. Not sure why mostly the left, but on a motorcycle it seems that way. Possibly because the right is a bit more mobile because of the brake and throttle.
I have damaged neck cartiledges which makes itr worse so I have to ensure I don't hunch.
I used to be in IT in a large govt organization and we went through the mega OSI stage. We spent a lot of time observing and analysizing body and arm positions and dynamics. A lot of it transfers to bicycles and motorcycles.
It doesn't surprise me you have already looked at it, I guessed you might when you said you rode mtb's. Just really gave the list incase you forgot or overlooked an area.
BTW if you go to a motorcycle training thing they will have a fit about you using 2 fingers for braking, Ignore them. It is a hangover from the days of cable brakes and crap unmatched brake hydraulics. Motorcycling is extremely conservative and hangs on to things that no longer make sense. I have been using 2 fingers for 40years and never found a problem.
Back to the matter in hand ( sorry about that). If you know you need 9-10 deg sweep, then if your motorbike bars are straighter, they will ppressure the outside of your palm. 9-10 deg is unusual for a male, but not rare. The stock GS500 bars are quite swept back . If the bars have been changed they may have replaced them with straighter ones.
The problem with motorcycle bars is often the brake is pinned to a hole in the bars which makes them difficult to rotate them AND get the brake in the right place. Usually have to redrill the hole. The brake doesn't have to be at as big a down angle as an MTB because you don't stand up  to brake. It should end up a lot closer to flat ( depending on bar height).

Quote from: gregjet on April 26, 2017, 02:37:04 PM
It doesn't surprise me you have already looked at it, I guessed you might when you said you rode mtb's. Just really gave the list incase you forgot or overlooked an area.

It's good information and I'm glad you posted it for completeness.

Quote
BTW if you go to a motorcycle training thing they will have a fit about you using 2 fingers for braking, Ignore them.

Yeah, I did.

Quote
Back to the matter in hand ( sorry about that). If you know you need 9-10 deg sweep, then if your motorbike bars are straighter, they will ppressure the outside of
your palm.

That sounds about right. Unfortunately nobody specifies MC handlebars in terms of sweep angle. They only specify "pull back", which is the distance the sweep covers without regard for the angle... of course it all depends a lot on the length of the grip portion of the bar then if you have to do the math and determine angle.

According to one spec I found, KX Hi Bend (like mine) are 14 degrees "back sweep angle". I haven't measured myself. Maybe there's too MUCH sweep angle?

This bike had some flat bars on it when I got it, I replaced with Superbike bars and then eventually the current KX Hi bend bars. I don't really want to buy another handlebar but I will if I must. But mostly I am reluctant to buy something until I can determine the sweep angle is right. My guess is since MC bars are wider I probably need another degree or two of sweep.

Recently I installed a set of Grip Puppies ( http://andystrapz.com/product/grip-puppies ). $30 AUS dollars is somewhat expensive for some foam tubes. However, this simple addition on stock bars mounted on a 25mm bar-back / riser kit relieved a lot of carpal tunnel symptoms. I fully understand that your symptoms are not carpal tunnel related, however, the increase in diameter of the grip does allow you to relax your hands.

I hope you find a solution. Hand pain on a bike is... well... a real pain with real consequences.

i also use grip puppies and they are great ..... there is a reason cruisers handlebars are thicker.... it makes them better for long rides

I have Oury grips. They are thick, soft rubber. Same grips I ride on my mountain bike. You'd never be able to get something over them and they likely don't need it.

Actually I think adding more bulk under the outside edge of my hand is the wrong answer. I wonder if the seat is not most of the cause of the problem anyway. Since putting the Kat600 shock on there the seat is at a forward slope and I think I'm pushing with my hands to keep myself from constantly sliding into the tank. I may even try putting the stock shock back on for this reason alone.

they should be able to slide over those making your hand hold the handle bar in a more relaxed way... it makes a huge difference

Quote from: mr72 on April 28, 2017, 08:36:53 AM
I have Oury grips. They are thick, soft rubber. Same grips I ride on my mountain bike. You'd never be able to get something over them and they likely don't need it.

Actually I think adding more bulk under the outside edge of my hand is the wrong answer. I wonder if the seat is not most of the cause of the problem anyway. Since putting the Kat600 shock on there the seat is at a forward slope and I think I'm pushing with my hands to keep myself from constantly sliding into the tank. I may even try putting the stock shock back on for this reason alone.

I'm not sure what size guy you are, but I read somewhere that the kat600 shock really isn't the best answer if you're <200 lbs. because of how stiff it is.

Hell, I find myself sliding into the tank on the OE shock. That could definitely be your issue.

Quote from: dominickbuff on April 28, 2017, 08:45:12 AM
they should be able to slide over those making your hand hold the handle bar in a more relaxed way... it makes a huge difference

I am quite relaxed holding the bar. Nothing on earth can make it more relaxed when pulling/holding the clutch short of conversion to hydraulic.

Quote from: rscottlow on April 28, 2017, 08:59:28 AM
I'm not sure what size guy you are, but I read somewhere that the kat600 shock really isn't the best answer if you're <200 lbs. because of how stiff it is.

Hell, I find myself sliding into the tank on the OE shock. That could definitely be your issue.

Yeah I'm about 220lb right now, so I should be heavy enough for this shock and I stiffened the fork springs by about 20% to match the rear shock. But the rear shock is still longer than the stocker.

I'm still working the problem. I think a custom seat is in my future, along with somewhat customizing the frame under the seat, rear fender/mud guard, and whipping up custom side panels. But I have way too many projects to get to that until it's just way too hot to ride anyway this summer.