Hello World!

Last summer, I bought a used GS500E for about $750, running and driving. I only know of three official problems (excluding my clutch cable snapping 24 hours ago )

1) Fork seals (?) are totally shot. The forks all always bottomed out when the weight of the bike is on it, let alone the rider. This doesn't bother me much (Safety issue? ) and I've ridden hundreds and hundreds of miles exactly as it is, as did the previous owner.

2) Oil leak from the "half moon" on the left side valve cover gasket. I am comfortable making this repair myself, just need to get the part. Oil leaks only after a ride and bike left on sidestand... again, doesn't bother me much, I leave it parked on the center stand and no drips.

3) Now this is what bothers me.. previous owner installed LED rear signals, a quick visual inspection doesn't reveal any frays or breaks in the wiring... The turn signals will work, but I have to be very careful with the switch.. pressing the button to cancel will blow the main fuse if i hold it more than a tap. Sometimes trying to activate the signals will also blow the fuse, because of the button.   

The bike is not completely stock, at least from what I can tell, the clutch and brake levers, mirrors, handlebars are all aftermarket.

My main concern is that fuse blowing from the turn signal switch. I can't figure it out. Do you think its in the handlebar switch itself? Maybe in the wiring to LED signals?

Any ideas or comments appreciated.

Quote from: GSChesler on June 12, 2017, 08:51:30 AM
1) Fork seals (?) are totally shot. The forks all always bottomed out when the weight of the bike is on it, let alone the rider.

That's not caused by bad fork seals. That's caused by the wrong springs or missing parts (like the spacer, or worse, the springs) in the fork. This is a serious problem and a serious safety issue. I wouldn't even consider riding the bike down my driveway like this. Shocking you have ridden "hundreds" of miles on it this way. 

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3) Now this is what bothers me.. previous owner installed LED rear signals, a quick visual inspection doesn't reveal any frays or breaks in the wiring... The turn signals will work, but I have to be very careful with the switch.. pressing the button to cancel will blow the main fuse if i hold it more than a tap. Sometimes trying to activate the signals will also blow the fuse, because of the button.   

Probably no dropping resistor. Nothing is there to correctly drive the turn signals. So when the turn signal is lit it's nearly a dead short (diode) but not on long enough to blow the fuse but when you push the cancel button it shorts it enough to kill the fuse (my guess). I'd dig into this and verify it was done right originally. Or go back to ordinary turn signals. Hint: I have a set of factory turn signals for sale. Cheap.

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The bike is not completely stock, at least from what I can tell, the clutch and brake levers, mirrors, handlebars are all aftermarket.

Because all of that stuff is easily broken or bent when the bike is dropped.

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My main concern is that fuse blowing from the turn signal switch. I can't figure it out. Do you think its in the handlebar switch itself? Maybe in the wiring to LED signals?

No, handlebar switch. Yes, wiring. Or more specifically, Yes, probably the PO installed only LED bulbs without dropping resistors and did nothing else to fix the wiring and you need to have dropping resistors and a solid-state turn signal relay to get it to work (along with a number of other things, diode mods on the dash indicator etc.)

Mr72 , thanks for replying.

Maybe the front suspension isn't completely bottomed out, but most of the way down, easy to push down more. But it doesn't feel like it hits the very bottom or anything that obviously indicates missing parts! Truly I've ridden all last fall and so far this spring just as it is.

The PO included the original rear turn signals in the sale, but thanks for the upsale

I understand  the idea that the handlebars and levers are easily replaced when dropped. Theres a minor scuff on the headlight bezel. interestingly, also included in the sale was the original clutch and brake levers. They didn't appear broken. I bought it with bar end mirrors, but he included the original mirrors , and an extra set of way lower handle bars.. perhaps he wanted to eventually make it a cafe racer?

From what you're saying, I'm going to reinstall the original turn signals and that might fix the fuse blowing.

Its now sounding like there is not enough oil in the forks. Which is no surprise if as you say the seals have failed. But......if you and the P/O have done 'hundreds' of miles on it in this condition its fair to assume the bushes and sliding surfaces may all now be compromised due to the lack of lubrication.

Search for rebuilding forks, its been covered in here many times.

Quote from: mr72 on June 12, 2017, 11:24:03 AM
Shocking you have ridden "hundreds" of miles on it this way. 

Now if it were his rear suspension then it would be "shocking".

Given what he described, he's forking lucky he hasn't gone over the handlebars when he hits a big bump.


Sorry, pathetic attempt at humor... it's been a long day at work.

Haha!

I like.

Anyway, if the suspension isn't literally bottomed out with the bike+rider weight, but is just too far down in the travel for your tastes, then that's normal GS500 soft front springs doing their normal thing. Probably nothing wrong, and again, nothing to do with fork seals.

That's not to say there's nothing wrong with the fork seals, just that this is not a symptom.

FYI I think the stock springs are like .60kg/m and they probably should be more like .80kg/m or more for most American male riders.

Just how far down should it be?

Its definitely way low. Small bumps in the road arent bad, but a pothole definitely gives me a nice clunk instead of a dampening effect I would expect. This is my first motorcycle, so I have no comparison.

I'll try to get lots of pictures, again thanks for your help.

The bike holding its own weight, the front suspension is compressed. Put the bike on the center stand (front suspension not supporting weight), and I'd say about 5-6 inches of the fork comes back up.


Thanks again all who entertain my post.

It only has 5 inches of travel total. It should sag about 1.5 inches ideally but that's not likely to happen with stock springs. Maybe 2 inches of sag with rider on is normal. Would bottom out over large bumps occasionally. Or at least mine did with my 220 lb rider weight.

Put the motorcycle on the center stand--make sure that the forks are extended all the way. Put a tie wrap (zip tie) around one of the fork tubes. Make sure that it is as far down as possible. Then, gently push the bike off the center stand. Put it on the stand again and measure the distance the fork traveled. You can repeat and sit on the bike, ride the bike, etc. As you measure the travel, you can figure out if you need to get stronger springs, add spacers, etc.

Bumping my own thread for some updates!

Replaced clutch cable with aftermarket MotionPro. Surgery was succesful.

Reinstalled original rear turn signals, hoping it would fix strange fuse blowing when hitting signal cancel... this did not fix it!!

The turn signal switch seems a little funky. Its easy to make the right side signal come on, hit the button and it works as it should. For the left signal, I need to really fiddle with the switch. It seems like its not in the right position somehow? Switch is at the middle..Feels like it moves over twice to the right (as if its moving passed the center then to the right side), then to put on the left blinker it feels different, like it moves much less to the left. Same exact problem, holding cancel blows the main fuse. Also, sometimes trying to fiddle with the switch to get the left signals to activate will blow the fuse.

An earlier suggestion in this thread was the LED rear signals were causing a problem, with suggestions about adding a diodes or other relays.. now I'm more certain that the problem is in the handlebar switch.. I don't see any wires touching the frame anywhere. This is from memory now as I'm at work-- but I recall on the left side of the bike, about where your knee would be, there is a bundle of wires. Theres one that I noticed is a green wire that is connected directly to a black/white stripe wire.. I'm not sure if this is OE or from the PO... also the bike will run on the sidestand.. maybe its just keeping that  safety circuit closed? Neutral indicator light does not work either.

Any ideas?

Quote from: GSChesler on June 24, 2017, 07:57:41 AM

Reinstalled original rear turn signals, hoping it would fix strange fuse blowing when hitting signal cancel... this did not fix it!!

The turn signal switch seems a little funky. Its easy to make the right side signal come on, hit the button and it works as it should. For the left signal, I need to really fiddle with the switch. It seems like its not in the right position somehow? Switch is at the middle..Feels like it moves over twice to the right (as if its moving passed the center then to the right side), then to put on the left blinker it feels different, like it moves much less to the left. Same exact problem, holding cancel blows the main fuse. Also, sometimes trying to fiddle with the switch to get the left signals to activate will blow the fuse.

You should replace the left hand control. They are not too expensive on ebay, just be sure to get one that has the right connector for your year/model.

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An earlier suggestion in this thread was the LED rear signals were causing a problem, with a whole bunch of "I-know-more-than-you" mumbo jumbo about solid state flashers and adding a parallel resistor... now I'm more certain that the problem is in the handlebar switch..

While I agree that your problem is likely related to the faulty left hand control, if your attitude towards mr72's advice regarding the LEDs is that it's "mumbo jumbo", then he really does know more than you, and instead of acting snarky when someone is trying to help, you should heed his advice. A TON of users come on here after installing LED signals without adding in a new flasher relay or dropping resistors and then have very similar complaints to you. Which is why it was one of the first things mentioned.

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I don't see any wires touching the frame anywhere. This is from memory now as I'm at work-- but I recall on the left side of the bike, about where your knee would be, there is a bundle of wires. Theres one that I noticed is a green wire that is connected directly to a black/white stripe wire.. I'm not sure if this is OE or from the PO... also the bike will run on the sidestand.. maybe its just keeping that  safety circuit closed? Neutral indicator light does not work either.

Any ideas?

I would first replace the faulty left hand control, then see which electrical issues continue. If there's some kind of short within the control, it could cause a whole host of problems. Also, the bike will run on the side stand in neutral normally, the safety switch is only activated when the bike is put in gear. Is the bike running on the side stand when in 1st? In any case, if there are spliced wires in a bundle on the left side of the bike, it is possible this was bypassed for some reason. It could also explain the non-functioning neutral light. But, that could always just be a burnt out bulb. Check the simplest things first mate.

Quote from: qcbaker on June 27, 2017, 10:33:22 AM
While I agree that your problem is likely related to the faulty left hand control, if your attitude towards mr72's advice regarding the LEDs is that it's "mumbo jumbo", then he really does know more than you, and instead of acting snarky when someone is trying to help, you should heed his advice.

Thanks for the support. FWIW in light of new information that the left hand switch is balky, it seems pretty obvious that it is the most likely cause of the problem. In absence of that information, incorrect conversion to LED signals is the most likely cause.

IMHO of course.

Don't take me the wrong way, I appreciate the suggestion.

I noticed Mr72 definitely knows his stuff around here, but to look into his crystal ball and tell me its because of no dropping resistor, then try to sell me his original signals.. its help, yes, but it's seemed to be wrapped in the wrong reason..

Basically the same condescending tone for each of my original statements that he quoted too.. But if that's just Mr72's attitude towards a new member's first post, let it be.

Back to the bike, I'll heed your advice (again ) and I'll next replace the turn signal switch. Again, I can't remember from my desk here how much of the switch is part of the grip/lever assembly, but they're not stock bars/grips/levers, so I'll have to make sure its compatible!

,...where pics??? oh and welcome!

Quote from: GSChesler on June 29, 2017, 06:34:18 AM
I noticed Mr72 definitely knows his stuff around here, but to look into his crystal ball and tell me its because of no dropping resistor, then try to sell me his original signals.. its help, yes, but it's seemed to be wrapped in the wrong reason..

Seriously? All I did was try to help. In fact I just re-read my posts on this topic just to be sure I didn't inadvertently come off as you describe, and I can't see any reason you would have characterized my response as condescending.

FYI it's not condescending to answer your questions; you asked! You might assume that when you don't know the answer to something, someone else may know more about it than you, and they might actually come off as knowing more than you when they respond to your question.

I hope you fix your problems and if instead of asking them right up front you had done a search you would have found this information for yourself: it's very common to do an LED conversion and things don't work, and fork seals don't affect spring rate. But you know what? You didn't do that search, instead you asked. And rather than do the common anti-noob thing that happens on other forums where you are told to go search before asking, I and others here happily answered your questions even though they are redundant and the answers are abundant in previous posts. That's the kind of forum this is. But I'm not going to coddle your frail ego. If you don't know the answers then be humble enough to ask and hear from those who do.

Mr72, again let me start off by thanking you,

what I found condescending wasn't that you answered my questions- I asked to get answers! It's not that I didn't want to hear the answers, or that I need to be coddled.

But I put a detail that my bike has aftermarket bars and levers and your response is "thats because those are easily replaced when the bike is dropped"
I write that I've but a few hundred miles on my bike and you say "shocking that you've ridden 'hundreds' of miles this way"

I tell you that I think you're being condescending, and you tell me to "grow up"


Anyway, I've tried to search through the forum as a guest for quite some time looking for someone else who's posted about the same symptoms, and didn't find much. You can tell me if I missed something somewhere and I'd go check it out, but it came to the point where I made an account just to ask.

I hope you all know more than me-- this is my first bike, and a lot of you have been riding long before I was born. It doesn't bother me that you "actually come off as knowing more than me"

I didn't mean to ask about the relationship between fork seals and spring rate. I didn't really mean to ask about fork seals either, since for this particular problem I have searched and found plenty,  just mentioned that mine are bad. I really made the post for advice about the turn signal issue

AGAIN: thank you for your reply, I don't want to seem like I don't appreciate you and others taking the time to answer my noobish redundant questions.

Please, tell me what keywords you search to find another post with the same symptoms? I would gladly read another thread before making one.


P.S., since the problem seems to be in the switch, it seems like the LED signals weren't a problem, because it acts exactly the same with the original signals reinstalled. Do you still think it has to do with the fact that there was no dropping resistors and a solid-state turn signal relay to get it to work (along with a number of other things, diode mods on the dash indicator etc.)?

Quote from: GSChesler on June 30, 2017, 06:04:13 AM
Mr72, again let me start off by thanking you,

That's not necessary. And that wasn't my point. There are a lot of people on this forum who openly and gladly share information and I hope to be included among them. They are not looking for a pat on the back, they are just hoping to help. Thank me (and the others here) by getting your bike fixed and report back what worked.

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But I put a detail that my bike has aftermarket bars and levers and your response is "thats because those are easily replaced when the bike is dropped"

That's because you are a reasonably new owner of this bike, and the common reason why bars, mirrors and levers get replaced on old motorcycles that often have had a series of beginner owners like these have is because the bike's been dropped. Anyway, I don't see how that's condescending. Can you explain to me what's condescending about that?

I mean, here's the logic. Some PO swapped sticky-out things like turn signals, mirrors, bars, levers. Why? My suspicion is that the bike was dropped and one or more of these things was broken, bent, etc. in the process. That means they had to do things like convert it for LED headlights, which is not really plug and play, and remove the switchgear, which in your case may have broken the handlebar switch for the turn signals along the way. Learning about the history of the bike is important in my mind if you want to be able to fix it and understand it in the future.

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I write that I've but a few hundred miles on my bike and you say "shocking that you've ridden 'hundreds' of miles this way"

"this way" being with the fork "bottomed out" as you suggested. It's dangerous to ride a motorcycle with broken suspension, and shocking to find anyone who would intentionally do that for "hundreds of miles". Now, what this teased out of the discussion is that your fork is not "bottomed out" as you suggested, so you know if you post actually what's wrong, then you will get the responses you are looking for. Nothing condescending about my answer there. I was truly shocked to find someone would do what you claimed to have done, but it turns out you didn't actually do that. So I'm not shocked anymore. I take it back. Knowing you rode hundreds of miles on an ordinary functional stock GS500 fork that happens to have springs that are softer than you might prefer is not shocking, nearly all of us on this forum do that all the time.

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I tell you that I think you're being condescending, and you tell me to "grow up"

That's right. Then I thought better of that response and edited it. But I stand by it anyway. It's not a bad idea.

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Anyway, I've tried to search through the forum as a guest for quite some time looking for someone else who's posted about the same symptoms, and didn't find much.

There are a ton of posts about LED turn signal conversions on this forum. There is a wide array of problems with incorrectly converted turn signals. Your symptoms may be unique, but the advice is the same, which is to go through the mod and verify it was done correctly, especially if you didn't do the mod yourself. I made a reasonable suggestion of what might be the specific cause of your specific problem in light of the possibility that the LED turn signal modification was not done correctly or completely, and mind you this was before you mentioned that the switch itself was physically broken.

Again, you told us of a turn signal problem blowing a fuse, the odd thing here was the LED turn signals, and with incomplete information I made a suggestion as to what you should check. Had you told us the entire problem to begin with, I would have not made that suggestion. Likewise you said you needed to replace the fork seals because the forks were bottomed out, which was also not an accurate description of the problem, and I expressed my shock that you'd ride this way and suggested that fork seals wouldn't fix that problem. In the same way, if you had described the problem accurately, I wold not have responded this way.

So now basically I expect you are likely to post incomplete or inaccurate descriptions of symptoms then get all bent out of shape when someone tries to help and offers advice that it turns out doesn't apply.

Did I get that about right?

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P.S., since the problem seems to be in the switch, it seems like the LED signals weren't a problem, because it acts exactly the same with the original signals reinstalled. Do you still think it has to do with the fact that there was no dropping resistors and a solid-state turn signal relay to get it to work (along with a number of other things, diode mods on the dash indicator etc.)?

Nope. Replace the switch like qcbaker suggested and your problem will probably resolve itself. If you have other problems later on with turn signals, we can help you find and fix that. If you turn on either left or right turn signal and all four blink, that's the diode mod that needs to be done. Turn signals blink really fast or stay on all the time? that's the solid-state-relay problem. Turn signals are uber bright and your battery goes dead or fuses blow? Missing dropping resistors (which are built in to most LED turn signals you buy these days).

,...still need pics

Quote from: cbrfxr67 on June 30, 2017, 06:55:51 AM
,...still need pics

I can't get picture to upload. It says the file is too large, then when I resized it, it says "the upload folder is full"

What do??

Quote from: GSChesler on June 30, 2017, 07:01:59 AM

Quote from: cbrfxr67 on June 30, 2017, 06:55:51 AM
,...still need pics

I can't get picture to upload. It says the file is too large, then when I resized it, it says "the upload folder is full"

What do??

search

this might actually be the MOST COMMON question on these forums.

[sort of kidding but truthfully that's seriously easy to solve and i don't have time to look it up for you]