Hey all! New to the forum as a poster but have been reading for a few weeks now, knowing I was picking up an 07 GS500F from a local kid. I've learned a LOT in my readings but I'm stuck now. Here's the skinny...

When I got it a few days ago, wouldn't hold an idle off of choke. Died almost immediately. When I'd hold throttle to around 1500 or higher and then try to give more, would bog down and die also. I assumed I had a jet issue and with the help of the search function and some others who seemed to have similar issues, decided to tear down the carb and have a looksee. Now let me also say that I'm not knowledgeable when it comes to mechanics. I'm not afraid to tear into something but I feel better when I know how the things I'm tearing into are supposed to work. So did a lot of homework on carbs and felt confident to give her a go. Got carbs out, opened up the float bowls (which I had factory screws that seemed to be untouched which surprised me) and got jets out and examined. Seemed pretty clean but shot 'em with some carb clean anyway and reassembled. Got the bike back together and she now idles well but other problems are still present. I assumed maybe a vacuum leak as now when I give throttle, the actual throttle snaps back as normal when I release it but rpm's stay where I rev'd to. Say I rev'd to 4k, she'll stay at 4k for a good 5 seconds after I release the throttle and then slowly settle down again. Read on here to try some starting fluid sprays around the boots so gave that a whirl. No major change out of the 3 times I tried on both boots with the exception of once...sounded like maybe jumped up a couple hundred rpm.

All that said, I decided I'm going to jet it anyway just because the plugs were white and ashy like she's running lean. So stage 1 kit is on the way. Also, while I'm in the carb again, have 2 gasket and needle kits coming along with new diaphragms. Figured while it's out, might as well. I also have new boots coming just in case there was an actual leak. Seemed ok but I'll replace to be sure.

What I'm trying to figure out is am I even in the right ballpark for troubleshooting this? Never owned a bike (besides my little suzuki 75st from the early 80's when I was a kid lol) and never had to diagnose or work on anything with a motor. I'm a wiring guy...I do 12v stuff for a living but mechanically, I'm just ignorant. I can figure stuff out but need some insight and maybe a hand held here and there.

I also made a vid of how she's running now just to see if maybe someone can hear something I cant. I've been told I need to balance the carbs which I'm in the process of making the 2 bottle tool to do so. Also been told to check the valve seats but that's beyond my current knowledge base lol.

Just trying to see if there are any other suggestions, and if so, maybe a little assistance in finding a tutorial. I've found a good bit of them so far but nothing seems to be matching what I have going on. Weather is changing and I'd like to at least get a ride or two in before the cold settles in

Thanks in advance!!!

BTW...the rev at the end of the vid was me by hand but you can see how it stuck. Wasn't from the fluid that I'm aware of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcuUL_gFw8Y

So Im not a hundred percent but maybe there was a o-ring or diaphragm damaged by some carb cleaner. But I do have to ask, where did you get your parts? Could I get a link?... please?

I thought I might have damaged the diaphragm which is why I ordered new ones. I'm gonna have it apart again anyway so figured it wouldn't hurt to get them here if needed. I just got everything on ebay. Took me a bit to locate everything and make sure it was correct. Cross-referenced with bikebandit.com on some stuff. Hope this helps!

http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2004-suzuki-gs500f/o/m6061#sch503304

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mikuni-Rubber-Flange-30-34mm-Carburetor-60mm-Width-Between-Studs/191294316669?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Genuine-Suzuki-Carburetor-Vacuum-Slide-Diaphragm-400-1500-See-Notes-Q132/272167596391?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUZUKI-GZ250-99-09-GS500F-04-09-Lower-Bowl-Carburetor-Repair-Kit-K-L-18-5059/401247549540?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dynojet-Carburetor-Jet-Kit-Suzuki-2004-2008-GS500F-3156-Stage-1/201993502194?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I think you are on the right track. The hanging idle is likely because you have the idle set too high. You are doing all the right stuff. Could be you can just lower the idle and get everything running right. Remember it won't idle without choke until it is fully warmed up which takes a long time.

IDK what a "stage 1" kit is but you only need to +1 size the pilot jet. You probably don't need anything else like bigger main or middle jet or shimming the needle etc.

I recently posted a long post on my blog about refreshing these carbs, and it aligns with what you are doing.

BTW I'd avoid that dynajet kit. You only need to change the pilot jet to a 20.

Thanks, Mr72! Is this the blog you speak of? I read it also and it's what gave me a little insight so if that was yours, thanks a ton!

https://joshkarnes.blogspot.com/2017/09/fixing-common-gs500-carburetor-issues.html

The idle setting was just set after I put it all back together. If it drop it lower, she dies almost immediately after I remove choke. Also to note, choke doesn't rev high like I read it should. Like in the 4k range when it's warm. It basically just hangs just about 2k for the most part. I did adjust the idle higher than I thought it should be but it was because it kept falling on it's face and killing out. At least now it hangs in for a bit lol. Still not gonna try to ride just yet as she's still pretty sporadic on the throttle.

The stage 1 kit I ordered was for stock motor, stock air filter, and stock exhaust. Did some checking on Dynojet kits and found that was what would suit my needs for now. Just trying to get a little more fuel to go with that lean burn

Thanks for the response!

Yeah that's my blog.

You can't set the idle correctly at all until you warm it up fully which will require like 20+ minutes of on-the-road riding (going through gears, riding under load). If you are just starting it on the center stand then it'll require choke to idle unless the idle tuning is PERFECT. I can start my bike (on choke), let it run for a minute while I put on my helmet and gloves, then take it off choke and it'll idle at 500 rpm or less and threaten to stall, even if I ride it a mile from my house, if I sit at a stop light for a whole cycle it'll likely die if I leave it off choke that early. It'll idle for maybe 30 seconds when it's that cold without choke. And it's dialed in. I nurse the throttle at stops when it's cold.

If your bike doesn't idle high like 3-4K+ on choke when it's cold then the fast-warm-up jet is probably clogged (that's what the choke does). Also maybe the choke cable is adjusted wrong? Maybe it's not opening the jet? Maybe it's sticking? That's what I'd be checking.

But the hanging idle you describe is due to the idle setting being too high, or more specifically, the throttle stop is set too high so it basically prevents idle. You can't fix it until you can get it going on the road so you can get it warmed up right.

You can look into the choke external mechanics with the carbs on the bike. But you're in for some work anyway once you decide to rejet, might as well check the fast idle jet then too.

BTW I still say stay away from the DJ kit. I'm sure others may agree. New pilot jets are cheap, probably can get a pair for $10. Put the DJ kit back on ebay when you get it if you can't return it, if for no other reason than you will not be able to get help diagnosing it here on the forums because nobody uses the DJ stuff. I'd rather follow Buddha's advice on needle/washer/jet settings for the Mk2 carbs, which are known to work right and you don't wind up in a rabbit hole of DIY tuning.

I really appreciate all the detailed help!

I was able to get the DJ kit cancelled as it hadn't even shipped yet. Looks like I can use that money for piecing together stuff per Buddah's insight. I'll have to find where that is talked about to see what I'll need to get, as well as learn some more. Any project I dive into, I love learning in the process and so far, I've learned a ton in the week I've had the bike.

Much appreciated to everyone who takes time to help us n00b's out on here!

THE most likely canidate is an unconnected or misconnected vacuum line ( there is enough of the dam things). Or a split vacuum hose.
The 07 has the tps and vacuum switch under the carb. Check that it is wotking properly and the connections.
I assume it is on normal fuel tap position so that vacuum line is working. If it is on prime position and won't run on normal position or reserve it could be that vacuum line or the diaphram. That is the longest vacuum line run.
I had the same problem after my carb clean but I pulled them and started from scratch and found some more grunge in the pilot. Sometimes when you clean them, you dislodge stuff and don't get it all out. It wasn't actually running lean so much as not running on one cyl in my case. Found that with a laser thermo ( a must have for jetting checks) checking the exhaust pipe temps.

excellent points gregjet.

I freely concede everything useful I know applies to the Mk1 carbs only, which only have one vacuum line between the two of them and are therefore quite easy to ensure they are free of vacuum leaks.

I hear the Mk2 carbs make a little better midrange power but it sounds like the complexity may not make it really worth it. I suppose you could strip all the junk off of them and have the best of both worlds, just wonder if it'd ever run right that way.

The way she sits now, it's at least not stalling out on me after she warms up. Thinking tomorrow I'm going to try and ride to work. I work at a toyota dealership and have a half day since I got nominated for saturday hours lol. But lots of knowledgable folks that I work with so I'm going to tear her down in my install bay and get some other eyes on it as well. Never hurts to seek help when it's been offered! I have my boss who is an avid motocross'er and one of our lead techs who literally fixes anything with a motor. And if he can't fix it, he fabricates parts to fix it. Super cool guys at my place of employment. Hopefully I'll get some more insight tomorrow.

Thanks again for all of the responses so far...I don't feel like I'm walking through as much of a dark cave without a flashlight any longer. I'll eventually make my way

It will make a lot more sense and work a lot more like it has been described once you can get it warmed all the way up. Everything is jacked up on these bikes when they are cold.

Well, Mr72! You were correct

I rode to work this morning and half way to work, stopping at any light or stop sign my rev's were around 3k so you were correct in saying I probably had my idle adjusted too high. Outside of that, seemed to run great otherwise! Maybe the initial cleaning I did actually did have an impact and things are on the right track. I'll keep riding (as long as this fall rain holds off) and note any changes.

Quote from: joey on October 05, 2017, 05:40:24 AM
Well, Mr72! You were correct

It happens sometimes.

Quote
I rode to work this morning and half way to work, stopping at any light or stop sign my rev's were around 3k

BTDT about 200 times. Wish someone had been around to give me this specific advice when I was struggling to get my bike to run right, which is why I hang around.

normally i sayy dunk carbs and not spray. but for future reference this workks imho more thoroughly.. but either way, if you spray or dunk, remove anything which isnt metal. those 2 substances dont play nice with rubber or plastic. (will swell orings etc)..
Aaron

You shouldn't dunk or spray, you should clean out passages with welding supplies cleaner and clean other surfaces with a tooth brush.

I used to get complaints from people that I sent the carbs back to them as dirty as it came in. I'd tell them if you want to, open it and look. The inside is what counts, if you want the outside clean, use a bucket, soap and brush after you fully assemble it and know that it runs fine.

Cleaning the outside while cleaning the inside is asking to contaminate caked up gas with mud and muck from the outside.
Your jets are on the way Joey, I'll try and read your post now. I am sorry I've not been reading long posts of late.

Cool.
Buddha.

I think your idle hover is just being lean. That 20 pilot will cover that just fine. I do believe you're going to be fine with the 132.5 kit coming to you.
Vacuum leaks sound very raspy and dry and loud cos engine internal noises are getting out as well.
Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: mr72 on October 03, 2017, 05:47:34 AM
Yeah that's my blog.

You can't set the idle correctly at all until you warm it up fully which will require like 20+ minutes of on-the-road riding (going through gears, riding under load). If you are just starting it on the center stand then it'll require choke to idle unless the idle tuning is PERFECT. I can start my bike (on choke), let it run for a minute while I put on my helmet and gloves, then take it off choke and it'll idle at 500 rpm or less and threaten to stall, even if I ride it a mile from my house, if I sit at a stop light for a whole cycle it'll likely die if I leave it off choke that early. It'll idle for maybe 30 seconds when it's that cold without choke. And it's dialed in. I nurse the throttle at stops when it's cold.

There's something wrong with your carb setup. I own both a '94 GS500 with 46k miles and an '07 GS500F with 6k miles and both bikes idle off the choke. Starting the bike on a cold morning as I regularly do to get to work, I put the choke on full, start her up, then gradually lower the choke to keep the revs between 1500 and 2000 RPM till the choke comes off completely, at which point the bike will idle at roughly 1100 RPM. That increases to 1200 as soon as I put load on the engine, and then to 1400 once warm. The idle's set high to help with cold starts, but it behaved similarly well when the idle was set to 1200.

Don't know how you interpreted that to mean !y bike won't idle off choke. It just idles low when cold.

Just wanted to say thanks again to all who chimed in and gave me a hand. Got all my parts swapped out today; new gaskets and o-rings in carb, new diaphragms, a nice shiny new jet kit from buddha, and new intake boots. Lots of tearing down that carb for a n00b but I got it done. Also drilled out the mixture screw plugs so I can access them now.

What my next question is, is what's the average number of turns from fully seated when giving bigger jets (from Buddha). I started at 3 turns out per spec but on my way home, she was way to rich and kept stalling out while at cruising speed. I haven't pulled plugs yet to see if they're fouled but I suspect they are. Exhaust definitely doesn't smell lean any longer and I have no more hanging throttle when released so most of the problems are solved. I assume at this point I just need to adjust the mixture as it acted like it was flooding. I'd be cruising and it would die. I'd pull off, wait 15-20 minutes and it would fire back up again and I'd make it maybe a mile and it would die again. Needless to say, my 20 minute ride home from work took 2 hours lol.

Thanks again for any help, gents!