Quote from: The Buddha on February 21, 2018, 09:45:08 AM
However I will not, and have never and do not believe 2hrs on a spin bike, or a jog or any damn thing remotely resembling steady activity for 2 hrs does anything other than age you, degrade your joints, destroy your muscles and have nearly no impact on your body fat levels.

You are correct that losing weight is almost 100% diet. Your metabolism, however, is 100% activity. You can lose weight faster and also eat more if you exercise, and the more you improve your aerobic fitness, the more you can burn fat while active.

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I will acknowledge I need exercise but I will need to get that in HIIT (high intensity interval training AKA sprints) and HRT (heavy resistance training).

Neither of which will improve your ability to convert fat to glycogen at above like 40-50% of your max heart rate. That's fine if you never exceed that heart rate, which is what you are finding: do no exercise at all and stay at the lowest possible heart rate at all times and also cut nearly all of the calories from your diet and you will lose weight. If you try to do any work you will lose muscle, because you don't have glycogen and hit your LT almost immediately.

HIIT is popular because it tries to tell you that with minimal time expenditure you can get maximum benefit. If you have very high state of base fitness then it may be true. But you can't go from zero to HIIT without going through the "get very fit" stage in between. You can try, you will live in LT and lose muscle mass then fall for every other protein powder and testosterone precursor snake oil gimmick on the market.

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Somewhere between 18% BF and the proverbial 10% BF excercise (HIIT+HRT) takes up as the determining factor. AKA the last 10lb is HIIT and HRT.

Try it. Come back an read what I wrote in two years when you figure out it doesn't work.

Controlling body fat is 100% diet. Exercise and fitness gives you options for diet and helps keep your metabolic rate high.

Think about this. Every move you make takes far more energy when you are 300 lb than it does when you are only 150 lb. So your metabolic rate will necessarily go down even if you don't change your activity level at all as you lose weight. There will come a point when your caloric needs (exertion/output) are less than 1000-1500 calories a day and you cannot diet your way out of that. You will slow your weight loss to a crawl and then find you have no energy etc. because you are simply not putting enough gas in the tank to do anything besides rest. But if you don't care to be healthy enough to do anything but rest, then by all means, do that.

Quote from: mr72 on February 21, 2018, 08:16:32 AM
You can't completely ignore oxygen and fitness. Well, you can, but you will eventually be fat again.

LOL, you cant ignore hormones like Insulin, estrogen and cortisol ... well you can but you'll be fat again. This is the biggest reason why diets don't work, why working out does very little and insulin resistance gets worse as you start to lose weight and you never get away from that.

Cardio lowers insulin to a small extent, but it raises estrogen and cortisol to a huge extent negating all the effects of lowering insulin. Worse yet, if you mobilize fat with cardio, that would raise your free fatty acids and that would worsen insulin resistance. Truly sets up the stage for getting fat even with increasing amounts of excercise. Like what was seen on "the biggest loser". Most of whom have got fat again. Pecisely proving the fact that excercise doesn't make for long term weight lost.


Cool.
Buddha.

Quote from: The Buddha on February 21, 2018, 09:56:52 AM
In the presence of oxygen fat turns into glycogen very readily. So aerobic activity will do that. Great.

No, you are reversing the process. Any activity will do this, because it's the basic premise that if you have depleted blood sugar then your body's only choice about how to resupply it is either convert fat (which it doesn't want to do) or convert muscle. Or, you can eat. "Aerobic" activity is just an exercise routine with the objective of improving your aerobic capacity.

Converting fat to glucose requires a LOT MORE oxygen per gram of glucose than it does to convert protein (muscle) to glucose. The availability of oxygen is the limiting or deciding factor. Your body cannot convert fat to glucose if you cannot intake air fast enough. That's why most people basically only can "burn fat" when at rest. If you don't supply your body with carbohydrates then you will be forced either to remain at rest almost all of the time, or to consume muscle whenever you have a need for energy above your basal metabolic rate.

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What happens in the absence of oxygen. Get this, it still converts it.

No it doesn't.

Quotethis is the 3X inefficient process where 1 calorie used in anaerobic activity results in 3 being used in the recovery.

What you may be describing is an oversimplified version of: you consume muscle at LT, then to maintain your basal metabolic rate, you have to burn fat afterward when you return to rest.

QuoteAerobic is murder on most fat burning and muscles and testosterone.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

However, please find me a runner who runs 5-10K a day and competes in marathons regularly who has a problem with fat burning.

It's only people who don't want to exercise who convince themselves that somehow exercise, which is time consuming, is bad for their weight loss goal.

But simply, diet defines your body weight, exercise creates fitness and defines your metabolic rate. If you want a "fast metabolism" you get that by exercising, so if you want to be able to eat and lose weight at the same time, it is eventually going to require exercise.

Quote from: The Buddha on February 21, 2018, 10:32:50 AM

Quote from: mr72 on February 21, 2018, 08:16:32 AM
You can't completely ignore oxygen and fitness. Well, you can, but you will eventually be fat again.

LOL,

OK, hot shot. Just talk to me in two decades. Some people actually have experience to back up what they say.

In the meantime, welcome to my ignore list. You are an insufferable, ignorant know-it-all. I'm done talking with you.

Quote from: mr72 on February 21, 2018, 10:29:54 AM
Your metabolism, however, is 100% activity. You can lose weight faster and also eat more if you exercise, and the more you improve your aerobic fitness, the more you can burn fat while active.

This is 100% wrong. Your metabolism in the case of sedentary lifestyle is 100% REE and in the case of very intense training elite athlete level is still 75% REE.

The rest of it following this line of reasoning is appropriately incorrect as well.

Cool.
Buddha.

Mr72 - The pity is we were both saying the same thing. Or similar things.

I fasted my way from 45-50% BF to 22 or so. It works swimmingly well, till you get to maybe 15-18%. Nothing works as fast or as well or as safely. In a long fast you still burn most of your protein in the first 4 days. Not all protein you burn is muscle, protein causes alzheimers, and several other things are rogue and mal formed protein, and classically your body destroys the worst, more decrepit muscle and when you eat it rebuilds it with good new tissue. But after each iterative long fast, there is less and less of the crap protein left. Your Lactate Threshold comes to it from 1 angle, I have just heard don't do serious workouts when fasting. And I feel like crap in anything past a 2 day if I even pick up a 10lb.

15-18%BF and down, you start burning more muscle. From 18% to the ultimate 8% BF its going to have to be exercise with intermittent fasting. In a long fast you're not supposed to work out anything beyond normal daily life cos it burns muscle. 18-8% BF I plan on doing weights, HIIT and IF. I am not a big fan of cardio, I hate working out in all forms, but I can tolerate weights and sprinting, so I'll see what that does.

I have a DSM-BIA machine and I have been reading it 2 X a day and have good data from it. I managed to get to a 5%BF and 45% muscle doing IF and weights, so I know I need to get there and how to get there.

Cool.
Buddha.

I know some liquor in the evening would put me to bed quicker and less likely to have multiple dinners in front of the TV all night.

Im at 20 without any work. Yay type 1 diabetes lol
Aaron