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Wisdom needed on carb issues

Started by Henrico123, February 10, 2021, 08:15:10 AM

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moe_tunes

Nice to hear the good news!

If a miracle occurs and you walk into a bike shop in S.A. and they have two different types of air filters the right size I'd recommend going with the type that looks like a fake K&N as the foam ones can fall apart pretty quick...
But if you have zero choice go with what you can get.

Luck.
You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me.

mr72

#21
yeah the foam ones actually filter out dirt too.


herennow

Jislaik ma bru ;-) Lucky bastard riding around that lovely area! I've not had any biltong for over a year now. :cry:

Do you have a standard airbox? I would stump up for the correct Suzuki air filter.

Henrico123

Quote from: herennow on February 18, 2021, 03:40:07 AM
Jislaik ma bru ;-) Lucky bastard riding around that lovely area! I've not had any biltong for over a year now. :cry:

Do you have a standard airbox? I would stump up for the correct Suzuki air filter.

SA is many things, but we do at least have Biltong..... :D  I don't have the stock airbox, I do have the stock airbox boots though, busy building filters using them as I can also not find the correct diametre pods anywhere close, I need to wait for ordered pods.

Wish I could upload some pics, but for some reason, the site keeps telling me it's not possible....

Henrico123

Update: She is purring like a kitten! I made filters by using the original airbox boots and sticking pods to them using Sikaflex, they look cool and work quite well. played with the needle clips and it's revving nicely now. It's a bit Rich on idle, but I will sort that out over the weekend, just need to get a small enough screwdriver to fit underneath the carbs.

mr72

try a flat screwdriver bit like goes in your drill. Paint a line on one edge with nail polish so you can count turns easily.

Henrico123

Thank you, that worked great! I took her out this morning for the first time, it was not pulling very hard through the gears, plugs out, its running rich on the needle jet as well. But it has run!

mr72

I guess by "needle jet" you mean "main jet"? Anyway, getting it to run passably with pods of any kind, lunchbox, or other intake parts besides the stock airbox, could likely turn into a long, frustrating sequence of trial and error. In the long run, returning to stock airbox and jetting will make the bike run better and far more reliably. So you might as well put out feelers for a replacement part while you go through the constant jet guessing game. Short story is, other parts of those carbs besides the jets and needles were not designed to work without the stock airbox. Requires over-compensating the few things you can tune to get it close enough to run, but it will never be optimal. Stock/stock is nearly optimal without any fiddling.

Henrico123

Quote from: mr72 on February 20, 2021, 05:59:56 AM
I guess by "needle jet" you mean "main jet"? Anyway, getting it to run passably with pods of any kind, lunchbox, or other intake parts besides the stock airbox, could likely turn into a long, frustrating sequence of trial and error. In the long run, returning to stock airbox and jetting will make the bike run better and far more reliably. So you might as well put out feelers for a replacement part while you go through the constant jet guessing game. Short story is, other parts of those carbs besides the jets and needles were not designed to work without the stock airbox. Requires over-compensating the few things you can tune to get it close enough to run, but it will never be optimal. Stock/stock is nearly optimal without any fiddling.

So, problem 1, I have no idea what is stock for the 400, seeing as the PO handed me most of the top-end in a plastic bag, including the carbs that as mentioned before had many parts missing (Problem 2), Problem 3, as I mentioned, no stock airbox and it would not fit the modified frame in any case.

So today, after 4 hours of fiddling with mixture screws and needle clips, have=ing the tank on and of about 19 times, the bike is running nice and crisp. Pulls well right through the rev range, and takes WOT rather well, if you ease into it and don't try going WOT from 3000 RPM. I need to re-pack the exhaust (In my error I believed the PO when he said that he did it, turns out it was only packed 1/4 full.), which will in turn probably make it run a bit rich again, but I am an expert at taking the slides out by now, so its no biggie.

It will not win any races with bigger bikes but will be fine to get me to work and cruise at highway speeds while looking cool (I have had quite a few people stop me to find out what it is), so with perseverance and a little luck, it is possible to ruan pods with a ridiculously large slip on......

mr72

Quote from: Henrico123 on February 22, 2021, 04:29:53 AM
no stock airbox and it would not fit the modified frame in any case.

... good luck with that.

Quote
if you ease into it and don't try going WOT from 3000 RPM.

This may very well be the no-airbox showing up. No point in trying to tune this out until you settle on your intake. This is not about jetting, it's about vacuum. The airbox serves as a damper for intake air pressure and not only makes it make more vacuum but also a more consistent vacuum without the peaky/pulse behavior you get with open filters. If you open the throttle quickly at low revs the vacuum increases rapidly causing the slide to come up too fast but airflow does not follow as fast and it's running too rich for a moment. Or, maybe there's not enough vacuum to get the slide to come up quickly enough and it runs too lean for a moment. Who knows. The symptom is nearly identical and very difficult to fix, if it's possible at all. But my guess is you need a smaller main jet and shim the needle a touch, worth a try.

Quote
I need to re-pack the exhaust (In my error I believed the PO when he said that he did it, turns out it was only packed 1/4 full.), which will in turn probably make it run a bit rich again,

Packing the exhaust won't affect mixture, not in any meaningful way. Certainly not when you have open air filters. Not even close to one jet size. Putting a db-killer type baffle in the exhaust would probably cause a one jet size difference in mixture. Mostly you are going to have an air velocity issue due to open air filters. This will be 99% of your tuning effort.

Henrico123

Final post on the topic! :woohoo: I have gone back to the 110 main jets that the bike came with. After some proper adjustment for idle and mid throttle once the bike was fully warmed up, it now runs properly, pulls strong through the rev range and runs at WOT. I might try going up to a 115 or 120 main just for laughs, but I am pretty happy with how it runs so far (With my home made pods :cool:)

The Buddha

You running the 500's carbs or the 400's ?
Cool.
Buddha.
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I run a business based on other people's junk.
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Henrico123

I have been running the 400's carbs that is basically the same as the 500's. Ran into some issues with diaphragms and not being able to find new ones, so I have bought a set of 500 carbs, planning on rebuilding and installing this week

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