I started in another thread about fuel problem:

"First, i have a 1997 (cali model) gs500e.

It worked before i put it in storage (for 2 years - long story)

I got it out and it didn't work. I replaced battery and spark plugs. Now the engine turns over but will not start. I pulled carb out and poored gas directly in the diagaphram and it started for like 5 seconds.

My guess was i had hoses reasembled wrong, but after extensive search on this site (tytytytyty for the pics and diagrams) i had the hoses all assembled correctly after all. (i counld not believe all those hoses just went no where... but they do! - one water drain from tank one vent hose from upper t connection... i spent hours trying to figgure out wher i went wrong cause i just KNEW they had to plug in somewherel.... lol

I just tried the drain fuel from each float bowl (in the PRI position) and got 3 drops on the left and 5 on the right carb... so i am not getting fuel... but i know i am getting good fuel to the petcock as that is how i drained the tank of all the old fuel.... so i guess i need to dissasemble and clean petcock next... (and maybe do extensive carb deconstruction cleaning? please say no!!!!)

Am i on right track? any suggestions? I really really want to get my bike running again!

ty!!!!"

Now i got my Clymer manual and cleaned my carbs (THOROUGHLY!)... poored some gas in the carb, started it... died... put it on prime and let it sit... turned it over and VUALAA.... idle at 1000-1500  

BUTTTTTTTT :x

It only idles for a few seconds.. sometimes a min or so then dies... whenever it gets to 2000rmp it dies. Whenever i turn the throtle it dies....

WHAT"S GOING ON?  :dunno:

Yes i have tried leaving it on prime, tried it on ON and on RES....

HELP PLEASE!

tytytyty for all your help so far!

Have you pulled the bowls to make sure the floats and needles are working correctly?

Have you tried leaving the choke on for a while so it can warm up.
also make sure your vacum hoses are not bent or blocked

I have learned it takes a while for the bike to warm up

sounds liek you've gotta warm it up. i usually let it warm on full choke while i get my gear on (i go to the garage in the morning in tennis shoes, walk the bike to the driveway, start it up, then dismount, put on boots, jacket, helmet, gloves), then i drop it to about half choke and ride it till the first stop light (about a mile). then i usually take the choke off there, and it's usually warmed up enough.

i'd say i leave it on full for about 3 mins.

Did you turn the under-tank petcock back on?

scratch - yes the fuel tank petcock is set to on... i took off hose on other petcock and fuel is getting there....

perfdrug - it won't idol for more than 15-30 sec most times, sometimes a little longer

evilscooby - yes it will only start with choke on so i have to have it all the way on... i will double check for bends in vacume hoses....

dvgyver- yes i cleaned the whole carb - includeing the floats, and they are all clean and move freely

As a follow-up to dgyver's post:

The float's task is to cause the fuel to STOP flowing into the float bowl when it's full.  But how does the fuel get into the bowl in the first place?

It goes through the hole in the "needle valve seat"  -- the brass item in this carb rebuild kit:



You didn't specifically mention cleaning out that part, but if you followed the Clymer procedure then you must have.

As for the "float needles" -- the OTHER metallic part in the rebuild kit -- if the rubbery tip gets crusty or worn it may allow too much fuel into the bowl (there's no way to stop up the hole).



But if it gets "gummy" it may never clear the hole in the seat.  So it's possible that would prevent fuel flow entirely.  Usually if one of these two parts is "gummy" - they both are.

If the carb "innards" are as clean as they seem, then your fuel supply must be "upstream".

1) Does fuel make it as far as the lower T-connector between the carbs?

2) If so, then let's say that you pull the float bowl and floats and valve seat entirely off the (still-connected) carb.  If you turn the petcock to PRI and no fuel comes through the valve seat mounting spot, then there must be a blockage between the lower T-connector and the carb body.[/list:u]

TY again Kerry... you just jump started my brain...

I did follow the clymer manual but I DID NOT UNDERSTAND STEP 9:

"9.Inspect the end of the float valve (Figure 24) for wear or damage. Refer to Figure 25 and replace the float vavle if necessary."

I could not find this part so i shrugged my sholders and went on cleaning... lol. I did not know that the innards of that gold thing came out! So no i have not cleaned that needle - because i couldn't find it!  

As to the other... I will check tomorrow as i don't have a garage or a shop... i have to work on the good old concrete without a lift  :mrgreen:

Whew!  Thank you, I was getting worried there for a sec.  Hopefully the float valve needles and seats will turn out to be the problem.

For some clarification, study this page from the Haynes manual.

Figure 9.5 shows where the valve installs.  It is only held in the hole by its O-ring, and pulls right out.  You'll want to remove the O-ring, soak the brass part in carb cleaner for 15-20 minutes, blow the seat out with compressed air (if available), and re-fit the O-ring.  (Carb cleaner does not "play nice" with rubber O-rings.)

Figure 9.6b shows how the "other metallic part" - the needle valve - enters the valve seat.  If you think about this being the "switch" that turns the fuel flow on & off, you'll understand why these two parts MUST be clean!

While you're in there you may as well check the float heights, and adjust if necessary.  Figure 9.7 shows you WHERE / WHAT to measure, and section 7 in the text tells you HOW to measure.  (You may find that having a buddy to either tilt & hold the carbs or do the reading will help.)

Good Luck!

another all-day session on my motorcycle (in and around my 1.5 year old... and........

VOOOOM>>>> VOOOOOOOOM>>> VOOOOOOOOOM.....

I thoroughly cleanded those parts set it to prime.. let it sit... then she started right up! She took a looooong time to warm up enough to get her off choke and be able to use the throttle to get higher revs... but she had been stored for a few years.

Now i can't get her to idle without the choke. I have an interesting problem though... as i was cleaning it my 1.5 year old "assisted" me by loosing the little wire part on top of the needle show in your carb rebuild kit photo... so no way i can adjust the float on that side of the carb  :x  I tried adjusting the screw under the carb that attatches to the throttle up and down but could not find a way to get it to idle...

BUT I AM MAKING PROGRESS!!!!   /

I think she just needs to clear her throat and drink a few cans of gas to clear out the system..... no?

btw... the needle was so dirty that i had to use pliers to pull them out of the brass housing ! lol

So i guess i need to do adjustments and replace that wire....

On another problem note... she doesn't hold a charge! And i have a brand new battery in there... i ran it for quite a while this afternoon hooked to the car batterey... and the alternator should have been charging the battery... no?

Quote from: pianoprazeVOOOOM>>>> VOOOOOOOOM>>> VOOOOOOOOOM.....

"YEE-HAW!" quoth the GS Cow-Boy.  "Congrats, pawdnuh!"

Quote from: pianoprazeI have an interesting problem though... as i was cleaning it my 1.5 year old "assisted" me by loosing the little wire part on top of the needle [...] so no way i can adjust the float on that side of the carb  :x

Yep, that's an interesting problem all right.    However, you SHOULD still be able to adjust the float height.  It's a function of the "float tab" pushing on the needle's spring-loaded metal tip, and has nothing to do with the "little wire".  I'm not saying it would easy, mind you, because the little wire helps to hold the needle in position while you get set up to do the measurement....

I have a somewhat separate worry about that "little wire" though.  I wonder if the float tab pulls on that wire to open up the needle valve when the float level gets low?  If so, then your needle might still be stuck up inside that brass part, and you might have one carburetor that isn't supplying much fuel.  (You could test this by draining that carb in the PRI position, and seeing if it stops draining after one bowl's worth.)

Quote from: pianoprazeBUT I AM MAKING PROGRESS!!!!

That's a nice feeling, eh?

I don't mean to sound distrustful of your technique, but did the Clymer instructions have you clean the main and pilot jets?  Were you able to see a nice round hole through each of them?  (If your eyes are like mine are getting to be, maybe you could adapt a "solar eclipse" viewing method -- shine a bright light through each jet and onto a piece of paper.  I haven't tried this, but it SHOULD work... )

Quote from: pianoprazeOn another problem note... she doesn't hold a charge! And i have a brand new battery in there

Did the battery start out with a charge?  If it's brand new, it would either need to be a pre-charged sealed battery, or one to which you added electrolyte and put on a charger.

Quote from: pianoprazethe alternator should have been charging the battery... no?

Well yeah ...  if it's working.  See if you can get any clues from the old Charging system thread.

Keep on churning out the progress reports.  You're doing GREAT!  

ok i need a little help... does anyone know where i can get the little wire that goes on the needle pictured above that connects the needle to the float?  The suzuki dealer could only sell me the whole needle assembly wich is 36 dollars... i don't want to spend that much when all i need is that little wire thingie....

update on progress...

i have ridden it a few times... it takes forever to warm up... and it won't idle... so i have to spend 45 min coaxing it to warm up to the point i can actually turn the throtle... and while i am ridding it i have to keep the rpms at 5k or it will stall....

i changed the oil and filter... maybe that will help but it still takes a long time to warm up to the point i can ride it.

i also installed a fuel fillter between the pet chicken and the carb on the main line in... so yes kerry i am getting fuel to the carbs... and yes i have nice holes in the main pilot jets... i took a thumb tack and stuck it in there to clean them out... lol so i can see though them.. and i didn't widen them any. and i take no offense at distrusting my technique i am a complete noob - but i learn fast!

The battery is fine.. it's just all the cranking...

so, in summary... it doest really idle.. and takes about 45 min to warm up to point i can turn the throttle... when i do i get it up to 5k rpm and can ride it... is this just the missing wire on the float or do i have some other problem? Should i buy a compression kit and see? Also, once i get it so i can ride.. it backfires often.......

all suggestions and help welcome![/code]

OK, I know that we're still waiting to see if a new "little wire" will  make a difference.  I won't consider this job "done" until it's back in there.

But your last message still makes me wonder.  In my previous message I said

Quote from: KerryI don't mean to sound distrustful of your technique, but did the Clymer instructions have you clean the main and pilot jets? Were you able to see a nice round hole through each of them?

to which you replied

Quote from: pianoprazeyes i have nice holes in the main pilot jets... i took a thumb tack and stuck it in there to clean them out... lol so i can see though them.. and i didn't widen them any.

This may be splitting hairs, but when you say "the main pilot jets" I'm left to wonder about the smaller of the two jets in the carb - the pilot jet.  A thumbtack wouldn't fit in that tiny hole, so...?  Perhaps you didn't have a screwdriver thin enough to get at and remove the pilot jets?

My understanding is that the pilot jet is the major fuel contributor from the 0 to ... 1/8(?) throttle position range.  In other words, at and just above idle.  If that jet isn't clean, then you can expect the bike to idle poorly.

The main jet (with the thumbtack-sized hole  :lol:) doesn't contribute much until around the 1/2 throttle position, so it shouldn't have much of an effect on your idle even if it were totally blocked.

Until you tell me otherwise, I still suspect that the pilot jets are clogged.  But don't jam anything through them to clean them out (except maybe a very fine, non-metallic toothbrush bristle or something).  The preferred method is to soak the jets in carb cleaner for 15-20 minutes and then blow compressed air through the holes.

ty... another spot i missed.... i was confused buy the book... i am now soaking the pilot jet.... nothing was getting through it...

you da man kerry....

side note to all those laughing at me. I entered in this project not even knowing what a carburetor was... yes i am 31, but i knew NOTHING about mechanics   ... i build my own computers, but i had never even changed the oil on my car. I am sure the Clymer manual is clear as day to everyone, but it was greek to me (actually more like russian - as i took greek in college) and the pictures confusing (not to mention the pull-apart diagrams like on p236 showing the carberator.

i am SO VERY VERY thankfull to all those helping me   and having the patience to put up with my absolute noob questions  

i am basically rebuilding my gs500... it was my first bike, but a moving company totaled it moving it from cali to ky... i am restoring my first love - the bike that taught me to ride, and i have a lot of love for it. I am beginning to feel like i can fix anything on it (with all your help) and that is an awesome feeling...

SO A GREAT BIG THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

she's alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



i still need that float valve spring (evilscooby?)... but i started her right up, let her idle a couple min... and took off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :mrgreen:

update: still waiting on float needle spring..... but...

i have changed the oil twice....  first time because it had been in storage for 2 years second time because it was leaking... when i drained it oil was nasty with sludge  

with second oil change (which i did today) i added oil/engine cleaner... also replaced gasket on oil pan and on oil fileter location. (i also have added fuel cleaner to fuel.

My baby runs now... starts every time. Idles well, and i can immediately turn throtle without it dieing... BUT....... when i ride it i have to leave the choke on. Also, i have to leave it in prime. If i do these two things it runs fine.... but if i turn pet chicken to "on" she dies in a few seconds. If i turn choke off she dies as well....... i have taken her on both short and long rides of an hour or more but still same.

Is it just that float needle thingie (which goat swears is in the mail   ? Or do i have other problems? I can run her like this but would prefer to have her run right... oh yeah i also notice she accelerates ok but then she kicks in like she has an intercooler and turbo kit at 5k or 6k.... not used to this ... didn't happen before storage  :dunno:

thanks!

I sent them on saturday, so they should get there soon.