What could I have done different?

[HondaHater]

In the summer of 2004 a guy who worked with me in a garage decided to pop a wheelie on his 900rr at night.  A car pulled out in front of him....the driver did'nt see his headlights since it was pointing up.  I made a makeshift shrine over his tool box with a picture of him. 

Just a few weeks ago an apprentice tech under my training decided to go for a 10r after he crashed his r6 "doing wheelies".  We all warned him that was a very bad idea.  Pointing to the shrine I told him his picture might be next up there.  He was a damn good kid.  But his 20 year old body just would'nt listen.  I even told him if he showed up to work with it he have to look for a diffrent job.

He went for it anyway.  He hid it from us and his parents.  Last week he was doing high speed wheelies on crowed philly streets and ended up in 3 pieces   " severed arm and leg".  No helmet....pieces of his face and scull all over the road.

These were both operator errors. Neither of them had taken the MSF, and had little time on 2 wheels.  I look at my GS and wonder why dont more riders start with something like this. 

[pandy]

It sounds as though you're trying to do everything you can, and that's really all you can do. 

All we can do is advise, set a good example, and sometimes just hope for the best. When I see something that affects me, I try to share it with others (eg. our loss of Rich and the loss of a member's brother recently). I figure the more people who read their stories, the more chance of is sinking in for someone.

I bang my head against the wall a lot, because I see a lot of shorts, t-shirts, & safety sneakers in this area. 

Note: This thread moved from the TF where it was started to O&E.

[ajaxgs]

thats a sad story


it kills me
yes im new to the sport did my safty course ,ride defensivly ,wear proper equipment
but why do you see people riding with shorts ect or you see people rining two up girl in skirt or shorts
u get what i mean

you did what you could

[Old Mr. Wilson]

I know I will get slammed for this and spit upon but here goes anyway. My reference points regarding motorcycles are not like most on this board. In my heyday as a spry young chicken, all started out on 50's, 65's, 90's and the like. It was true that Honda's biggest was the 450.
Yamaha's was the 350. A 500 was a big bike discarding Harley-Davidson. We started riding very young. Hell, I was like 11. We needed zero licenses of any kind. No inspection stickers either.
In high school, one rarely ever saw anything over a 450. Most were 350's on down to 125's.
In my humble opinion, a 500 is too much for a beginner. Any bike that can get to certainly over 100 mph and do it in less time than most any car is a recipe for disaster for a beginner.
You might say that it depends on maturity. Well, most 14 to 17, even quite a bit of 21 to 25 year olds just ain't that mature. Examples of this can be seen throughout the day on these 160+ mph pieces of plastic. In my day, these were race machines for the track. They were not on the street. Period. Plus they were unaffordable. People my age used to be shocked to see these things actually being sold for the street..........and to KIDS. Anybody with the money (or their parent's money) 15 years old in most states, can just walk in and buy some of the fastest machines on the planet. In the good old USA, it's the BIG is BAD attitude and when you couple that with raging harmones and fantasies of a child (so to speak), well, that is a recipe for disaster.
The mindset gets associated with the machine. Because he/she has a Hayabusa........then he/she is BAD. Kinda like the mindset of being in a street gang. It gives one a false sense and semblance of respect but only to that individual and the idiots that have the same problem.

[ajgs500]

+1 OMW 

[Mitch]

Sounds like you did more then any would resonably expect.  It was the kids fault.

[natedawg120]

I agree with OMW and everyone who has posted thus far.  There is nothing that you could have done.  The simple fact that he wrecked his R6 doing wheelies should have shown him that he wasn't ready for that let alone a 10r.  You did everything you could.  Its still sad that things like this happen.  For every unsave driver / rider out there countless people are in danger, not just the person taking the risks.

[CirclesCenter]

OMW you know you are a fixture when you are an acornym. Even though if you cut me I bleed liberal...

+1 OMW

There were times when I had to question my own maturity on the GS.

The boy clearly was living in an illusion, had seen too many of the, "Don't hold me back" type movies where the young kid defies authorities/parents/peers/so forth and becomes some sort of legend/hero/prodigy racer.

In his mind he was that kid. He was Speed Racer with his Mach 5.

How do I know? I'm 20 and was raised by TV, and I know how it feels and what it is like to be on an R6 or a Hayabusa, even if I'm only holding still at the stealership. The things that go through my mind are all power-wheelies, 10 second quarter miles and dragging pegs through corners.

One of the salemen came by and asked me before anything else, "How long have you been riding?"

"3 months or so."

"I can't sell you that."

"I wouldn't want it, I'm not ready yet."

It's the seperation of reality and fantasy.

To him you were just another doubting authority figure trying to "Hold him back" there was nothing more you could have done.

[banner]

You did all you could bro. People will do what they will do. I'm definately with Old Man Wilson though and at the very least people should start off on 500's if that!

Another interesting thing that i factor into whether i should recommend motorcycles to someone is how many accidents they have been in recently. If they have been in more than 1 accident the last 3-5 years i would just tell them motorcycles aren't for them. It may sound harsh but the reality of it is that some people are accident prone and others aren't.

For example of one my friends just got into his 4th car accident in 2 years. Put that guy on a motorcycle and he would be dead right now.

[TadMC]

There are two types of accidents on motorbikes, Your Fault and Their Fault.

When its Their Fault,  its a tragedy.   Some one doing something that they love gets killed by some one's stupidity. 

When its Your Fault, its still a tragedy, because its absolutely preventable.  Popping wheelies are fun sure, doing stoppies are fun sure,  but the FUN to Danger ratio should clue you in to not do such stupid things.  Who the F*** does wheelies on crowded streets, jesus.

If your going to do it do it on the dead in side of a residential street, or in a controled invornment.

Its people like this guy that makes our insurance rates go up, and gives sport bikes a bad name,  but its SOOOOO PREVENTABLE DAMNIT

[ajaxgs]

well said tadmc

[scratch]

I don't know how else to approach this so I'll state it as if I was speaking to the person in question.

"I am concerned for your safety.  I have been riding xx years, and have seen/heard/know what these bikes can do.  I wont stop you from buying what you want.  But, I do have some advice that I would like you to hear.  Would you like to hear it?"

If yes, the kid may actually have some brains/wisdom instilled from their parents.  Yay, good parenting/religon/Darwin.

Asking the question, "Would you like to hear it?", saves your breath for someone who is more likely to benefit from your learnings/wisdom.

That's all at this point.  Late afternoon sun has exhausted my brain.

[pantablo]

I look at my GS and wonder why dont more riders start with something like this.

ego. vanity.

all you can do is try to steer them in the right direction. whether they listen to reason is beyond your control.

[Unnamed]

We can idiot proof things for kids with good success, but once they get old enough to make their own decisions things tend to weed out the ones who shouldn't have made it through childhood.

[stangbaby67]

There are two types of accidents on motorbikes, Your Fault and Their Fault.

When its Their Fault,  its a tragedy.   Some one doing something that they love gets killed by some one's stupidity. 

When its Your Fault, its still a tragedy, because its absolutely preventable.  Popping wheelies are fun sure, doing stoppies are fun sure,  but the FUN to Danger ratio should clue you in to not do such stupid things.  Who the F*** does wheelies on crowded streets, jesus.

If your going to do it do it on the dead in side of a residential street, or in a controled invornment.

Its people like this guy that makes our insurance rates go up, and gives sport bikes a bad name,  but its SOOOOO PREVENTABLE DAMNIT

This reminds me of the ladder in the MSF book.  At first, my friend and I kinda laughed at the idea of the risk ladder, but it's really true.  You have to make your own decisions about how much risk you're willing to take, and know that there's always someone willing to take more risks than you.  It is tragic , however, when those risks result in needless deaths.  But there's nothing that anyone can really do to prevent those people from taking risks, unless we go around stealing keys, and that's not really an option.
You did all you could, and it's a lot more than many people would have done under the same circumstances.

[RVertigo]

once they get old enough to make their own decisions things tend to weed out the ones who shouldn't have made it through childhood.

Beautifully put!  That's exactly what it is...

Mom says "Don't touch the stove."  Kid touches stove...

Everyone says, "Don't ride wheelies in rush hour traffic."  Kid dies when he looses it in front of a Hummer.


Some people just don't have the problem solving and risk management skills to stay alive...   I'm honestly not sure how I made it through childhood, but every broken bone, cut, gash, and sprain was a learning experience...  And I'm still learning.

[annguyen1981]

Strange, but I agree with EVERYTHING OMW stated.

I think it was Alpha () that put it this way...  It's Darwin at work.  Less dumb people in the world.

[pandy]

I think it was Alpha () that put it this way...  It's Darwin at work.  Less dumb people in the world.

Perhaps so, but we have to remember that every individual who qualifies for a "Darwin award" has a family, friends, and loved ones who suffer, and I doubt it would ease their suffering to see someone saying, "Dayim that was stupid! Darwin award to that one! They had it coming! it was just a matter of time before s/he was D-E-A-D!"

[CirclesCenter]

People, for the love of god (or whomever you may or may not worship) SOMEONE DIED

I don't care if it's Darwin at work or not, be a little more sensitive. 

This person obviously meant something to this man, have a heart.

[BikerChick]

In the summer of 2004 a guy who worked with me in a garage decided to pop a wheelie on his 900rr at night.  A car pulled out in front of him....the driver did'nt see his headlights since it was pointing up.  I made a makeshift shrine over his tool box with a picture of him. 

Just a few weeks ago an apprentice tech under my training decided to go for a 10r after he crashed his r6 "doing wheelies".  We all warned him that was a very bad idea.  Pointing to the shrine I told him his picture might be next up there.  He was a damn good kid.  But his 20 year old body just would'nt listen.  I even told him if he showed up to work with it he have to look for a diffrent job.

He went for it anyway.  He hid it from us and his parents.  Last week he was doing high speed wheelies on crowed philly streets and ended up in 3 pieces   " severed arm and leg".  No helmet....pieces of his face and scull all over the road.

These were both operator errors. Neither of them had taken the MSF, and had little time on 2 wheels.  I look at my GS and wonder why dont more riders start with something like this. 

I am VERY sorry for your lost You WILL soon realize that it wasn't your fault..  I am a mother of two and even though he wasn't your child, it seems like he was close to your heart..  and I understand how you would feel the way you do...  BUT it is true, you can only do and say so much..  I can't count how many times I told my kids not do touch or do something and they did it over and over again... Sometimes it's the age, sometimes it's wanting to be in control of yourself...  Everyone is different...  I will not sit here and say whos mature and whos not...  I believe it all depends on the person themself.. I was VERY mature and responsible when I was younger but my sisters were not...  EVERYONE is there own person....  You can teach and advice people BUT People can only help themselves with the choses they make.  I started riding on the back of my husbands bike BUT I had the jacket, boots, gloves and helmet.. now I ride myself, on a 500, I don't care if I am sweating because it's 100+ outside, I still wear my gear....  Yeah I know my bike can go fast, I haven't had it over 50...  weird I know, but untill I feel comfortable, have taken the MSF class and have been riding a while, I don't even see myself on the freeway... 
Again, I am sorry, and if you need to talk, I am really good at listening..... 
I leave you with a quote: "Do not learn from your mistakes, learn from the mistakes of others so that you do not make any." --Sean Karsten