SCOTUS actually making logical and constitutionally-based decisions???!?!?!?!?!?

[spc]

First the death penalty thing with the guy in LA, now they've ruled the 2nd amendment applies to one's right to posses a firearm for legal reasons (self-defense) in re. District of Columbia.  Yup, that's right, all you DC'ers can buy handguns now. 

[yamahonkawazuki]

indeed, although SCOTUS worries me sometimes. you recall what the decision was on gitmo?

[bombadillo]

Its about dang time.  I live in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia and our gun laws are getting out of hand.  Now you can have an ar-15, but you have to have a fixed mag that breaks down in two to load and unload, or you can just get a mini-14 with detachable that shoots the same round because it doesn't have "evil features"   I'm heading out to another state where the laws are a bit more relaxed and it doesn't cost so damn much for a house around here.  I seriously don't understand the dems and their gun laws in cali.

[trumpetguy]

So somebody please tell me how a handgun ban is UNconstitutional, but a ban on automatic weapons is allowed?

While you're at it, what does the first clause of the second amendment mean?  Why is it there?  How does some gang-banger in DC carrying a handgun fit into the "well-regulated militia" idea?

I support the idea of citizens owning guns.  I (unlike some) believe that reasonable restrictions do make it more difficult for criminals to obtain handguns.   I'm all for that.  The idea that "criminals will always get guns" is no reason not to have a ban.  If that were an acceptable argument, we would not outlaw ANYTHING -- criminals will always have whatever we outlaw, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be civilized.  An entire country of (concealed) gun-toting vigilantes is not my idea of civilized.

If you want self-protection, use a shotgun.  Greater stopping power!

Reasonable minds may differ, but you must answer my questions!

[blue05twin]

I guess they don't think you can kill as many people with a semi-auto or revolver as you can with a full auto.

Why is it there?  It's there becuase it was written over 200 years ago, when there were no " standing armies" and that the militia was the only real source of defense, and that the people that formed the militia were everyday citizens and had to supply their own arms.  Why was it never taken out after we formed our army?   Simply incase the army got out of hand we would have a means to stop them.  Of course 200 years ago they didn't know what type of tech we would have now, and it was belived that our army would never be as large as it is today.

Simple if we still had militia's said gang-banger would be dead.  Militia members were everyday citizens that wanted to protect what was theirs be it county, the land they owend or their families. 

But trust me on this the professional criminal doesn't go down to Dave's Guns & Ammo to buy a gun.  So no matter what bans you place on firearm ownership it will only effect the people tying to buy a guns legally not from some gang-banger who's already packing a 9mm and trying to kill some old lady so he can go and buy some crack.  Restrictions are ok, wait limits, back ground checks are all ok, and will probally stop spur of the moment murders or some psycho getting a gun to kill his fellow students.

Being robed then shot.  I guess thats a civilized way to die.

[spc]

TG, I get the urge to kick the shaZam! out of you every so often.  A fully automatic weapon is not considered a viable tool for personal defense for many reasons.
Most don't apply numbers to the clauses of the amendment, they are generally referred to as the Operative and Justification clauses.  I will assume you are referring to the justification clause allowing for a well armed militia.  Oxford defines 'Militia' as a force of ordinary citizens.  So, yes the justification clause very plainly allows for ordinary citizens to be 'well-armed' for purposes of defense. 
So, TG, what is your opinion of the case SCOTUS ruled upon to come to this conclusion.  A DC special policeman was unable to keep a handgun in his home for personal protection.  Better yet, the weapons that were allowed in DC had to be trigger locked or dis-assembled.  Tell me, if someone is threatening yours or your family's livelyhood, how fast can you undo that trigger lock or re-assemble that shotgun??  I've had many LEO's give me 'stern lectures' about keeping my sidearm loaded at all times, but it boils down to the simple fact that an unloaded weapon is as much good as a rock. 

If you really want to make a difference, support more strict regulation of gun shows.  Anyone, even an escaped felon, can go to one and purchase a gun in cash with no background check.  That's where the majority of the problem lies.  I've seen people I happen to know are convicted felons purchase firearms at gunshows.  I've seen them slip that handgun in their pocket and walk outside like nothing ever happened.  I've also seen the LCSD take a very serious stance on the issue.  Lowndes County GA has a VERY low violent crime rate for two reasons.  Everyone has a gun and the cops are well trained and very serious about protecting and serving the law-abiding community.

[jserio]

i'm actually happy that the ruling went the way it did. i'm one of those people who thinks that the main purpose for the 2nd ammendment was to ensure private citizens could own firearms legally.....why? so that in case our government got all dickheaded we could fix the problem the same way we originally fixed our problem with the british. ( i'm not bashin the brits, i promise!  ) our founding fathers knew firsthand just how handy it was for all citizens to be armed.  but, i do agree with others on here... i'm not against regulations and laws, a way to control things. i also agree with the sentiment that the criminals will always have guns no matter what kinda laws you make or how you try to regulate it. i've found that many people who are against guns are just plain ignorant and don't know better. education is the key to proper gun ownership. especially in homes that have young children. i've been told you should keep you firearm locked in a safe, with a trigger and barrel lock on it with the ammo kept in a separate locked compartment. now, i can't remembe where i read that statement at but i almost fell outta the chair i was laughing so hard. you think the guy kicking in your door is going to wait until you unlock the safe with the gun, unlock the barrel and trigger locks, and then go to wherever you keep the ammo, unlock that safe and load your weapon? gee, might as well leave the door unlocked for him and the valuables all right in the living room so he won't wake you up.  i'm not saying parents of young children should leave fully loaded .357's on the nightstand unattended. but lets be reasonable here. hmm..i had another point i wanted to make and forgot what it was. oh well, happy gun ownerhip DC! 

[trumpetguy]

The second amendment says NOTHING specifically about guns.  It says "arms."  So if I want a nuclear warhead or RPG as my arm of choice, why not?

My point is this: 
If you accept that automatic weapons, grenades, etc. can be banned, you are for "gun control."  You just draw the line at a different point than some other people (like me).

spcterry, it's just a conversation -- not worth getting worked up about.  I'm trying to make people think.  This ruling is not about "saving the constitution," or we'd be allowed to have whatever arms we'd like.

[ohgood]

First the death penalty thing with the guy in LA, now they've ruled the 2nd amendment applies to one's right to posses a firearm for legal reasons (self-defense) in re. District of Columbia.  Yup, that's right, all you DC'ers can buy handguns now. 

It was illegal to buy handguns in DC ?

Isn't that unconstitutional ?

I don't get it. :|

[spc]

It was illegal to posses a handgun in DC, and yes as the SCOTUS has determined, that is unconstitutional.

[jserio]

yes, DC had a gun ban....and one of the highest murder/crime rates in the country. (that's what i've heard anyhow.     )

[jserio]

personally i think DC is a poster-city for why banning guns simply does not work. just my opinion mind you. 

[spc]

Gosh, what would make you think that??  Maybe the fact that it has one of the highest murder rates in the country per capita???

[jserio]

my point exactly.

[yamahonkawazuki]

actually terry afaik nowadays, you have to have the standard paperwork filled out at gun shows to purchasea firearm. but NOT from private parties ( at least here in tn), on another note, i think this country has not been invaded mainly because invading armies would NOT know who had a weapon, and banning guns would never clear out privately owned weapons. they would jsut go "underground'

[yamahonkawazuki]

So somebody please tell me how a handgun ban is UNconstitutional, but a ban on automatic weapons is allowed?

While you're at it, what does the first clause of the second amendment mean?  Why is it there?  How does some gang-banger in DC carrying a handgun fit into the "well-regulated militia" idea?

I support the idea of citizens owning guns.  I (unlike some) believe that reasonable restrictions do make it more difficult for criminals to obtain handguns.   I'm all for that.  The idea that "criminals will always get guns" is no reason not to have a ban.  If that were an acceptable argument, we would not outlaw ANYTHING -- criminals will always have whatever we outlaw, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be civilized.  An entire country of (concealed) gun-toting vigilantes is not my idea of civilized.

If you want self-protection, use a shotgun.  Greater stopping power!

Reasonable minds may differ, but you must answer my questions!

btw didnt clinton impose the ban on auto weapons?, if not who was it?

[jserio]

private party gun sales are a grey area anywhere i think, not just at gun shows. i get the impression the govt really isn't sure how to approach this issue. but it is one that needs looked into.

[spc]

actually terry afaik nowadays, you have to have the standard paperwork filled out at gun shows to purchasea firearm. but NOT from private parties ( at least here in tn), on another note, i think this country has not been invaded mainly because invading armies would NOT know who had a weapon, and banning guns would never clear out privately owned weapons. they would jsut go "underground'

Yeah Clinton was the one f%$king with auto weapons.  Great f%$king job too.  Everyone who already had one was allowed to keep it and once again, there's no regulation on private sales.

Yama, the thing about gun shows is that most of the 'vendors' classify themselves as 'collectors' and are thus exempt from the standard NCIC requirements imposed upon dealers.  I've seen a 17yo walk into a gun show and purchase a .45.  I've seen a known violent felon do the same, fortunately he was shot as he exited the show (LEO's were keeping an eye on him and when they asked him if he would mind asking a couple of questions he went for his pocket)

TG, exactly, there is a line that needs to be drawn and there needs to be a massive crack-down on these unregulated transfers at shows.  Unfortunately, the gun lobby so vehemently opposes any thing to do with firearms that they are unwilling to pursue a middle ground.  If they would put their efforts into getting legislation passed prohibiting unregulated transfers and requiring basic safety courses there would be many fewer gun-related deaths.  We require a license to drive on a road and vehicle registration, why not have all gun-owners be required to test for a license and register ALL firearms.  I'm not opposed to a more strict system, I'm opposed to this bullshit mentality that says law-abiding citizens should be left naked and at the mercy of criminals.

I'm going to sleep, I'm tired.

[yamahonkawazuki]

aye, i could be a convicted felon, anbd buy " off the street" be it either via private party, OR through less than legal means

[jserio]

Or with the proper tools and a bit of time and a nice lil workshop space, i can make my own.  seriously. if you want something bad enough, you can get it. the criminals ruin the fun for us decent folk. grandma always said locks ain't for honest folk.  i miss my g-ma....