Carbs rebuilt now wont start! could it be the weather??

[kylegod]

My bike will not start!! Heres whats up. Recently I rebuilt my carbs with rebuild kits consisting of all new seals and float plugs (?). At the same point I rejetted with dynojet stage 1. Mods are a cobra f1 pipe, and K&N in the stock airbox. I also got a new battery just yesterday because the old one was shot. Im seriously thinking the weather has something to do with this. Its about 20 degrees here in Pa with a windchill of 10. Bike is in an unheated garage. Heres what I have checked and troubleshooted.

-Fuel lines and vaccuum lines are correct, I am sure of that.
-Spark plugs are new and do get spark. Although the one does get a little wet with fuel after numerous attempts at starting, guessing Im just flooding it...
-Floats Do fill with fuel and float levels are for the most part correct, may be slightly off, But I dont think this would make it not start at all!
-Petcock always has run on PRI and thats how I have it now.

The bike does crank and I got a few backfires, but thats the best I got. Any ideas? Could it be the weather? I cant try to compression start it because my streets and alley way are pretty much still iced and snowed up. At least its winter, otherwise id be bashing my head off the wall. Thanks for any input!

[ohgood]

what is a float plug ?

dynojet is crap. stock is better.

if one of your plugs is saturated quickly after attempting to start, i'd bet there is a mixture issue going on, ie, extremely rich on that side.

you are using the choke, right ?

yes, it will be difficult to start if it's lean and very cold out. will be even more difficult if it's rich as a fat politician on one side and lean as a worker bee on the other.

easy fixes:

put the stock needles, slides, and jets back in as they were. raise the needles with 1, 2, or 3 washers if you can find them at lowes, use the choke, and enjoy better running. really, the stock needles are better. sorry you wasted money on the DJ ones.

keep us posted

[kylegod]

HA! I literally almost wrote in my original post, "Don't trash on me for getting a DJ kit!" Ive already had a thread devoted to this haha!

When I say float plug I mean the little rubber tipped needle/plug that closes the float bowls. I dont know the exact term.

But yes I am using choke. And I do have an extra set of stock needles for the bike so I will try that I guess once I get kerosine for my heater, my garage is unbearable right now. Probably even colder than outisde, it acts like a freaking freezer. But why put back in the stock jet? Won't I run very lean with the K&N and Pipe and no compensation to the main jet?

Also would a DJ kit really make a bike just not start. I heard of them being hard to tune, but not starting?? My riding buddies Suzuki SV reacted to the DJ kit very well.

[ohgood]

HA! I literally almost wrote in my original post, "Don't trash on me for getting a DJ kit!" Ive already had a thread devoted to this haha!

When I say float plug I mean the little rubber tipped needle/plug that closes the float bowls. I dont know the exact term.

But yes I am using choke. And I do have an extra set of stock needles for the bike so I will try that I guess once I get kerosine for my heater, my garage is unbearable right now. Probably even colder than outisde, it acts like a freaking freezer. But why put back in the stock jet? Won't I run very lean with the K&N and Pipe and no compensation to the main jet?

Also would a DJ kit really make a bike just not start. I heard of them being hard to tune, but not starting?? My riding buddies Suzuki SV reacted to the DJ kit very well.

ok, by float plug- gotcha. that would be 'float needle' according to fiche and parts. whatever, long as we know what you're talking about

cold sucks. agreed.
yes, the stock jetting will be lean- but not knowing what sizes DJ sent you, and their inconsistancy about naming sizes... it's a step in the right directoin.

the DJ kit will make it run poorly, or be harder to tune, yes. DJ kits usually give the impression of more power, because they really, really suck in lower rpm's, and then flood you with higher rpm richness= feels like it pulls more.

the rejetting matrix is a decent guide, not fool proof, and in the wiki. usually, a pipe + k&n = 150 main and 40 idler, 2 or 3 eashers, and 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 turns on the mixture screw. fiddle with the mixture screw if it doesn't idle just perfect. might need a sync after all the fiddling, but i doubt it.

the not starting up at all, well, i'll blame things being apart, and the possibility of an oopsy during re-installation. teh DJ crap (i mean kit) just compounds the problems.

in nother thread we compared the DJ vs stock needles and you can see just how aggressive the tapers differ. can't find the thread now... sorry.

make sure you haven't loosened your plug wires in the coil pack. it's an 'interesting' fit.

hmm, what else ? hmm, dunno. try that.

[kylegod]

DJ only has you replace the main jet. Its a 122. But I believe their numbers and ratings are different. Cause stock says 122.5. I did find the thread comparing needle taper. They have you use the stock idler jet...this is the smaller jet thats deeper down in the carbs next to the main correct? Those they have you leave stock. They have you drill and tap the holes on the slides and screw in "correctors" I do have an extra set of slides so no big deal there, I can go back to those. Ugh Im blown away at the fact that they would even produce and sell something if it doesnt work. Because like I said, My buddies SV650 loved the dynojet kit.

[kylegod]

And concerning a shotty installation i suppose you could be correct. Although i checked, and rechecked over and over. I really think all is installed correctly. The only thing that would be off is the float height. Which ill do when I take the carbs back out.

[The Buddha]

OK DJ properly installed should not do any starting problems ...

So I am going to glaze over everythign else these guys have already mentioned, its all to be ensured its correct.

You change spark plugs in this whole fiasco ...

If so, you run NGK's in it ?

I'd dump them in favor of champion 809's or whatever the autolite one is.

Had trouble with NGK's in the past ...

Cool.
Buddha.

[kylegod]

Yeah I got new NGK, checked and they were gapped properly. As for those other brands, Pick those up at any bike store i suppose? I do have to address the one side being rich, only that one plug gets fueled up. is this a float level problem?  Buddha, think weather has any thing to do with this hard starting? Its about 18 degrees in my garage.

[kylegod]

How do I lean up the side thats too rich and fouling my plug? Float height or air/fuel mixture screw? And if it is screw...does turning it in richen or lean out?

[The Buddha]

18 degrees ... so when its that cold what do people do ... walk ?

Its supposed to run well below 0, and NGK crap is gapped right etc etc, just doesn't spark ...
BTW what exactly do you mean by rebuilt ?

I have worked on over 300 carbs ... I am yet to "rebuild" one. So what did you do, put all new metal and everything ?

Cool.
Buddha.

[kylegod]

Ok not literally rebuilt. I mean took apart, cleaned, new seals o rings, and float needles. And installed dj kit.
I was just curious if it's the cold that is giving me trouble or at least part of the equation. The one side is too rich as the plug comes out gassed up after a few starts while the other sides plug is fine and stays dry. Both plugs do spark.
So I guess the new question is how to lean out the one side. Float height? Air/fuel screw? And if the screw in or out? Thanks!

[The Buddha]

Yea I know, new O rings and jets. Got it. DJ crap can be tuned right but no where near as easy as the stock and its series of jets. OK so ...

You set both sides equal ... I really wont set one air screw different unless you have damage in that section on that side.

I will slowly read over your post and get back with what I may have missed.
Cool.
Buddha.

[kylegod]

Thanks alot I appreciate it. Thank goodness it's winter.

[The Buddha]

DJ only has you replace the main jet. Its a 122. But I believe their numbers and ratings are different. Cause stock says 122.5. I did find the thread comparing needle taper. They have you use the stock idler jet...this is the smaller jet thats deeper down in the carbs next to the main correct? Those they have you leave stock. They have you drill and tap the holes on the slides and screw in "correctors" I do have an extra set of slides so no big deal there, I can go back to those. Ugh Im blown away at the fact that they would even produce and sell something if it doesnt work. Because like I said, My buddies SV650 loved the dynojet kit.

You are running DJ's needle right ?
122 and DJ needle with pipe and K&N in air box - really doesn't sound that far off. It should work. Or atleast start.

OK so to reiterate - 122 DJ, DJ needle on position 2 I presume, 3 turns on mix screw, stock pilot jets, and float set to the top of the float bowl ?

Sorry man nothing sounds like its off if this is what you're running.

OK could you do me 1 favor. Put the old spark pligs back in and try it. NGK new plugs are garbage sometimes. I dont care it sparks, I dont care it looks good and is gapped proper. Something internal is off ... yea 100 years of spark plug making and we have figured out how to screw it up ... but please put the old ones back in.

BTW wiring on the auxillary ground line is good ? That can cause it to not start ... especially on 1 cyl.

Cool.
Buddha.

[kylegod]

Yes DJ 122 main, DJ needle, K&N stock box is all right. 2 screw turns out, or at least DJ tells me to do that. As far as float bowls, kept them as was.

As for plugs, I didnt replace them when I did the carbs. I replaced them about 200 miles prior to the carbs. But never ever had a problem with them or had any starting issues.

The only carb issue I may have is float height, but I did a quick measure when I had them apart, and they were darnn close to spec according to the Clymers book. I also quickly did the test with the clear fuel hose on the gs500wiki. If anything the fuel may have been a hair higher than where it should have been according to the test. But I cant see this being the reason the bike wont start at all.

So this auxillary ground...I know nothing about it. If its bad would it still crank? Cause motor does crank and I did get a couple back fires but that was it.

And as far as the one plug getting fouled, could this be a a float height issue? Because now that I think about it when I did that test with the clear hose, I only did one side, the side that DOESNT have the fouling issue. Duh...
Thanks a bunch.

[The Buddha]

200 miles on plugs, OK they are not the problem.
Auxillary ground is the skinnier wire from the negative of the battery. It will crank and even start usually but only run on 1 cyl.

You have some other problem ... I'd have to think it over ... may not yeild much though. Stock floats or close to it is OK. 2 turns is a bit low, try 3 for mix screws. But sorry the rest all seems great.

Cool.
Buddha.

[jeremy_nash]

attach a piece of hose to the carb drains, and check float height and fuel presence

[kylegod]

attach a piece of hose to the carb drains, and check float height and fuel presence

Yeah I did that on the one side and fuel height was about level with the gasket, maybe a bit higher, but I only did this on one side, like a dummy. Ill check the other side. Prob tomorrow. Off to apprenticeship classes.

And Buddha thanks a lot for looking through the thread and trying to help me out. I look at the Aux wire, and do another turn on the screws. And I apologize for the dumb question, but does turning the screws out make it richer or leaner? Thanks again!

Im sure the fridged weather doesnt help the situation at getting it started either, so im going to run the kerosine heater for a while and warm up the air in the garage. Although I doubt itll help that much, my honda xr250l kickstarts first kick in the coldest of cold.

[The Buddha]

Air screw out = richer.

You have to tune it on the coldest day you have in your area. I freeze to death every time a new bike shows up needing a tune
Cool.
Buddha.

[kylegod]

200 miles on plugs, OK they are not the problem.
Auxillary ground is the skinnier wire from the negative of the battery. It will crank and even start usually but only run on 1 cyl.
.

when you say skinnier wire from the negative of the battery...are there two wires that come from the negative side? Meaning positive has one red wire and negative side has a black negative and a skinnier "auxillary" wire? Please please say yes and have this silliness be the problem. The bike has Been apart for so long...I don't even recall putting two wires on the negative side of the battery. Doh!