Here it goes...ok, i need help

[Worm]

I'll address something noone else has....the side and rear plastics. Easiest way to get them off is:

1)Remove the seat.
2)Remove two bolts holding the passenger handle (12mm i think).
3)Remove four bolts holding the plastics (10mm).
4)Pull on either side plastic and pop loose the two plugs that are just pushed into rubber bushings.
5)The cable that unlocks the seat can be removed by cutting the zip tie holding it to the brace the seat locks into and lifting the ball end of the cable out of it's little cradle on the lock mechanism. (Just don't forget to hook this back up before putting the seat back on!!)
6)Pull entire rear and side plastics off the rear of the bike. They should come off as one piece.

Good luck!

[sledge]

I personaly doubt that a few months standing would result in the carbs becoming that clogged to such an extent that the engine wont start, but you have to weigh up my opinion against against yours and that of your friends. I will say you really dont want to be tearing into those carbs until you are 100% sure they are the source of the problem.

Next step, again if you choose to follow my advice, ensure you have fresh fuel in the tank and that it flows through both taps and into the carbs. Make sure you have no kinked or trapped lines and that they are correctly routed into the tap and carbs. Then drain both carb bowls into a clean container until clean fuel shows. Also check the choke linkage on the carbs is free to move with the cable.

When you buy the new battery get a can of easy-start too. Fit the battery, pull both plugs out lay them on the cylinder and check they are both sparking as the engine turns over. Assuming they do refit them, set the tap to Prime (PRI) pull the choke and as it cranks over squirt the easy-start into the airbox, it will help if you remove the filter. If you are lucky the engine will catch but you might have to try it a few times. If the bike still refuses to start then its time for a rethink....oh one other thing ensure the engine is holding sufficient oil before trying to start it

Again.....over to you  

EDIT......Get a shop manual too.

[numnutz]

I personaly doubt that a few months standing would result in the carbs becoming that clogged to such an extent that the engine wont start, but you have to weigh up my opinion against against yours and that of your friends. I will say you really dont want to be tearing into those carbs until you are 100% sure they are the source of the problem.

Next step, again if you choose to follow my advice, ensure you have fresh fuel in the tank and that it flows through both taps and into the carbs. Make sure you have no kinked or trapped lines and that they are correctly routed into the tap and carbs. Then drain both carb bowls into a clean container until clean fuel shows. Also check the choke linkage on the carbs is free to move with the cable.

When you buy the new battery get a can of easy-start too. Fit the battery, pull both plugs out lay them on the cylinder and check they are both sparking as the engine turns over. Assuming they do refit them, set the tap to Prime (PRI) pull the choke and as it cranks over squirt the easy-start into the airbox, it will help if you remove the filter. If you are lucky the engine will catch but you might have to try it a few times. If the bike still refuses to start then its time for a rethink....oh one other thing ensure the engine is holding sufficient oil before trying to start it

Again.....over to you  

EDIT......Get a shop manual too.

That's a lot of info.

Well the carbs are still on the bike so I think I'll hold off on that. Tomorrow, I'm going to check the plugs, probably get new plugs, get fresh gas, probably change the oil, get a new battery. I can do all of that.

What confuses me is the stuff you said after that...
"Make sure you have no kinked or trapped lines and that they are correctly routed into the tap and carbs. Then drain both carb bowls into a clean container until clean fuel shows. Also check the choke linkage on the carbs is free to move with the cable.

When you buy the new battery get a can of easy-start too. Fit the battery, pull both plugs out lay them on the cylinder and check they are both sparking as the engine turns over. Assuming they do refit them, set the tap to Prime (PRI) pull the choke and as it cranks over squirt the easy-start into the airbox, it will help if you remove the filter. If you are lucky the engine will catch but you might have to try it a few times. If the bike still refuses to start then its time for a rethink....oh one other thing ensure the engine is holding sufficient oil before trying to start it"

I'm going to try and sum it up with some questions...
-Check for blocked lines
-The tap is where the petcock valve is right?
-How do you do this, "Then drain both carb bowls into a clean container until clean fuel shows. Also check the choke linkage on the carbs is free to move with the cable."?
-So I take the air filter out of the airbox and spray the easy start right into that opening? Also, I've heard easy start causes problems for engines and turns them into "junkies" like they won't start without it after a few tries with it.

[twelvepoint]

Yes, if you have a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel you can turn the Philips screws into slotted and get a lot more torque on them. Any screws like this, throw away and replace with Allen screws. As a general rule of thumb, be careful with any screw going into aluminum and don't overtighten. Aluminum is sticky and strips easily.

As some folks have said, don't just assume you need to take the carbs apart in order for the bike to start. You may be missing on checking a few things. Make sure fuel is getting into the bowls of the carbs. The petcock (not "peacock", haha) has a vacuum component that relies on a fitting from one of the carbs, and if that's disconnected, you get no fuel.

Other thing is make sure you're getting a spark. Definitely pull out the plugs and check the condition.

The carbs fit into hard rubber boots mounted to the engine. Give the boots an examination to make sure they're not messed up. That could affect your performance.

That bike looks like it's in very nice shape. Before March, my bike hadn't started in 3 years and although it ran rough, it still started. Take your time, try and not pull stuff apart unnecessarily, and keep posting with your progress

I doubt your bike was left outside and uncovered with the petcock left open for months.

Everything looked good underneath the tank. Is there a picture of the vacuum component? Or a diagram?

It was in New England, outside, barely covered for 3 years with the carbs dangling off the engine! 2 months ago I was about to junk it but I decided to give it one last try and with a new battery, it started right up.

At the back of the petcock is a smaller size hose. That's the vacuum fitting, and mine was not in good shape, so I disabled it entirely (yours is likely working just fine, so don't screw with it!). But the deal is without a vacuum, the fuel gets cutoff, and your engine will stall. Anyway, just be aware that's how this works. It's so that if you park the bike and forget to turn the petcock off, AND for some reason your floats don't work right....in that incredibly rare scenario, the vacuum keeps gas from pissing all over the ground.

I'd recommend bypassing the petcock entirely when you try and get this started, and use a temporary fuel tank > inline fuel filter > carb. It just eliminates one variable, and you won't have to deal with a big gas tank when you're mucking around with the carbs. My temporary "tank" was a plastic funnel hanging from the handlebar, with some fuel line stuffed into it and epoxied all around. Probably other folks have more elegant solutions, but hey, it worked for me...

[twelvepoint]

Also, did you mention whether you had a service manual? If not, get one now. It'll have a lot of photos and diagrams and will absolutely clear up a lot of confusion about part names and locations.

[numnutz]

Also, did you mention whether you had a service manual? If not, get one now. It'll have a lot of photos and diagrams and will absolutely clear up a lot of confusion about part names and locations.

Yea I'm going to order a haynes manual. Just need to get paid first.

Can anyone answer my questions in post #22. Or three posts above this one.

[The Buddha]

Sheesh ... I take a few hours to get home and this is what happens.
OK drilling is almost a must cos the front screws on the top isn't accessible with vice grips.
You can do the jis screwdriver thing but dont be surprised if they still strip, cos I got jis and have a success rate of 50%.
Cool.
Buddha.

[romulux]

Impact driver? Like one of these - http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00915232000P?vName=Tools&cName=HandTools&sName=Screwdrivers&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a

How does it work? It seems like this could risk cracking the carb itself.

Yup, that's identical the one I have except I didn't get a case.

It's one of my favorite tools cause it's worked every single time I've needed it.

Whenever I get close or start to actually strip a Philips style fastener, I get it out.  The bit it comes with is excellent and grips just about any fastener and I frequently don't even have to hit it with a hammer.  Just having that good bit grabs the screw often.

The way it works is you put the bit in the fastener head like a normal screwdriver.  The handle part swivels a few degrees in either direction.  You turn the handle in the direction you want the fastener to turn until it stops.  Then, you give a nice tap with the hammer.  This drives the heavy handle portion down onto an angled wedge internal to the driver and provides a strong impulse down into the fastener with just a hair of rotational force.  The combination of those forces really helps loosen stubborn fasteners.

It's a great tool to have.

[Paulcet]

An electronic version of the service manual can be found by way of this thread:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=51216.0

[numnutz]

Impact driver? Like one of these - http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00915232000P?vName=Tools&cName=HandTools&sName=Screwdrivers&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a

How does it work? It seems like this could risk cracking the carb itself.

Yup, that's identical the one I have except I didn't get a case.

It's one of my favorite tools cause it's worked every single time I've needed it.

Whenever I get close or start to actually strip a Philips style fastener, I get it out.  The bit it comes with is excellent and grips just about any fastener and I frequently don't even have to hit it with a hammer.  Just having that good bit grabs the screw often.

The way it works is you put the bit in the fastener head like a normal screwdriver.  The handle part swivels a few degrees in either direction.  You turn the handle in the direction you want the fastener to turn until it stops.  Then, you give a nice tap with the hammer.  This drives the heavy handle portion down onto an angled wedge internal to the driver and provides a strong impulse down into the fastener with just a hair of rotational force.  The combination of those forces really helps loosen stubborn fasteners.

It's a great tool to have.

Do I need to put something around the carbs, or can I use this tool the way the carbs are sitting in the bike now?

[romulux]

Do I need to put something around the carbs, or can I use this tool the way the carbs are sitting in the bike now?

Before you do anything at all to the carbs, you need to physically remove them from the bike.

Whatever you're using the tool on needs to be solidly held either against the ground or in a vice or something solid since it's working by transmitting that force against the resistance of the fastener.

It might still work with it attached to the bike, but it probably won't.  The rubber carb boots holding the carbs to the head and airbox will absorb much of the impact, I think.  You'll stress the airbox plastic, too.

[numnutz]

Do I need to put something around the carbs, or can I use this tool the way the carbs are sitting in the bike now?

Before you do anything at all to the carbs, you need to physically remove them from the bike.


It might still work with it attached to the bike, but it probably won't.  The rubber carb boots holding the carbs to the head and airbox will absorb much of the impact, I think.  You'll stress the airbox plastic, too.

Okay cool thanks.

[the mole]

I suggest re-reading what sledge said in his last post. Now that he's being helpful, I'd hang on every word! If you don't understand, ask questions, use the search function and get a shop manual. Your bike needs 3 things to run. Compression, fuel and spark. If you get a good battery, fresh fuel (and make sure its getting to the carbs) I 99% guarantee it will run. It doesn't look old enough to have bad compression. The other 1%...its been abused.
Good luck!

[beRto]

Congrats on the new bike and welcome to the forums!

I agree with Sledge and the mole - tearing apart carbs is not step #1. Several other options are more likely to be successful for you. If it works out, Sledge's approach can save you a lot of grief. If not, the carbs aren't going anywhere.

It sounds like your battery needs to be replaced either way; you might as well buy it now.

Good luck!

I suggest re-reading what sledge said in his last post. Now that he's being helpful, I'd hang on every word! If you don't understand, ask questions, use the search function and get a shop manual. Your bike needs 3 things to run. Compression, fuel and spark. If you get a good battery, fresh fuel (and make sure its getting to the carbs) I 99% guarantee it will run. It doesn't look old enough to have bad compression. The other 1%...its been abused.
Good luck!

[numnutz]

Yup. I'm very happy with this forum. You guys really know your stuff. Thanks for all your help!

Today's list is:
Spark Plugs, Probably new
New Battery
New Oil
New Gas

If no luck:

Pull the airbox and carbs and clean them up.

[beRto]

Sounds like a good plan!

Spark Plugs, Probably new

Just buy new ones... and make sure they are gapped correctly

New Battery

Good idea. Make sure the shop tops up the acid levels properly. You will also have to wait several hours (probably until tomorrow) for the battery to be fully charged. The shop usually takes care of this the first time. Don't rush it.

New Gas

Yup. In addition to replacing the gas, make sure both (yes, there are two of them) fuel petcocks are fully open (frame petcock on PRI). You will also need to ensure that fuel is actually reaching the carbs. This means draining the float bowls, waiting, and checking again to make sure new fuel got there.

You should also ensure the choke mechanism is moving freely. You will probably need to use the choke for the first start up.

[numnutz]

Yup. In addition to replacing the gas, make sure both (yes, there are two of them) fuel petcocks are fully open (frame petcock on PRI). You will also need to ensure that fuel is actually reaching the carbs. This means draining the float bowls, waiting, and checking again to make sure new fuel got there.

You should also ensure the choke mechanism is moving freely. You will probably need to use the choke for the first start up.

Thanks!

By both petcocks, you mean the one visible on the side of the bike and the one under the tank?
What are, and how do you drain the float bowls?
What is the process for checking the choke mechanism?

[DoD#i]

A float bowl, a drain, and the screw you turn to open the drain (slotted/philips closest to the right side of picture.) In the background, past the idle speed adjustment knob pointing down, the same thing on the other side of the bike (the screw on that side faces that side.) Put something under the "spout" (or put some 1/8" fuel line on the spout) so you don't drip gas everywhere, and open the screw to drain what's in the float bowls. Then put the frame petcock to prime and verify that you can get more (and it looks cleaner than what first came out probably did).



The Carb end of the choke cable. Make sure that this moves when you move the choke lever on the handlebar. If it doesn't, you can move it at this end for the purposes of seeing if the bike will start, and replace the choke cable after you know the bike actually runs. Probably fine if it was fine a few months ago. Lubing the cable can help, but generally replacement is needed when they start to get sticky, as they have rusted internally at that point. Lubing the new one can help prevent rust.

[numnutz]

Okay great thanks!

So to clear up that picture



That correct?

[DoD#i]

Not that it was particularly unclear, but yes, that's correct. One float bowl on the bottom of each carb, thus one on each side to drain, and then check for fuel flow on prime.