Instant Death!!

[SlimKlim]

Rode the bike home from work this afternoon and it did just fine. I coasted up to the house and shut it off. Right after I shut it off I thought (maybe I'll work on the carbs this weekend, so I'll shut the fuel off and run it for a hot second. Go to turn the key back on and nothing. No lights, no veypor, no starter, not a single bit of life 15 seconds after It was functioning just fine. Pushed it in the garage and waited for a few seconds and tried a few more times, now I'll hear a relay click and the veypor will start up for a second, then die.

Any thoughts?

[SlimKlim]

More Info:

-Battery is good and strong, 12.93v I think.
-When I turn the key to on I hear a relay click, the veypor will start up and go to its normal screen and the light will come on.
-When I hit the starter, I hear a loud relay click and all the electrics go out and the veypor will flash dimly if I hold the button, then go off when I release it.
-I tracked it down to one relay, I can feel/hear it pop whedisconnected it and without it the gauge will only flash when turning to the on position, not start up.

Possibly just a failed relay?

Pictures of the culprit







No writing or markings of any kind on that relay. I suspect it may just be bad, but I don't know if its the cause or just a symptom. I also dont know quite what it is, and how to get another one.

Side stand switch maybe?

[Elijafir]

Have you tried jumpering the terminals on the starter?  A good plastic handle screwdriver will work for this.. but maybe scar the driver a little bit.  Your starter may have hit a dead spot..? have you tried tapping on it with a tool handle or something?   Make sure you have it in neutral while you're messing with the starter so the bike doesn't try to roll away on you.

[SlimKlim]

I was thinking of putting a 12v source on the starter and seeing if it turned.

[Chuck500]

Not to sound overly ignorant  , which I am; but, what is a veypor?

Keep the shiny side up,

Chuck

[SlimKlim]

Aftermarket gauge with an accelerometer, so it gives you dyno numbers and stuff.

Okay so looking in the manual that is the sidestand relay and it failed the test it has for it. It may not be opening properly or something. This may also explain why my kickstand switch hadn't been working, so I should probably get that all hooked back up.

What freaks me out is how inconsistent the issue is. I can unplug the relay and the gauge will just flash, or it might start up. With the relay in the gauge will probably start up, headlight may or may not come on, sometimes hitting the starter reboots the gauge, sometimes it all goes dead, sometimes i get a dramatic pop from that relay, sometimes it dies without a sound.

I guess I don't have any choice but to replace that relay, and chances are its going to have to come from Japan, which means my ass will be waiting a week to get this thing running again.  If thats even the scope of the problem that is.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome

[birdhandler]

If you look at the wiring diagram you can bridge the relay
If this is the problem you this should not occur with the bike in neutral
This means the elctrics always think the side stand is up
also there is nothing special about this relay you can get something similar to do the job at an auto parts store
Good luck

[SlimKlim]

Well, the bike is in neutral. So I guess that rules that out.

I'm really not in the mood for this crap, I just want the bike to run the way it was, I thought I was out of the woods with this thing. 

[jeremy_nash]

have you checked the battery terminals to be sure they aren't loose? you could take a heavy gauge wire and jump the 2 big terminals on the starter relay.  there are also 2 grounds, one small one with a quick-disconnect, and a heavy one that attaches to the motor case.  make sure they are both in good shape and corrosion-free

[bill14224]

I think you're flipping-out over nothing.  I think you left the kill switch in the off position, you're trying to start it in gear with the stand down, or your battery is dead.  That Veypor thingie has nothing to do with your starting circuit.  I know, I know, it's not a video game, it's a motorcycle.  It's real.  So learn about it.  You came to the right place.

Let me guess.. you put your weight and the bike's weight info into the Veypor thingie and it measures your acceleration rate then computes and displays your horsepower?  Do I understand that correctly?  If so, that's a neat little gadget.  I wouldn't want one on this bike though.  I already know it only puts 39 HP on the pavement and I don't want to be reminded!

[bill14224]

Aftermarket gauge with an accelerometer, so it gives you dyno numbers and stuff.

Okay so looking in the manual that is the sidestand relay and it failed the test it has for it. It may not be opening properly or something. This may also explain why my kickstand switch hadn't been working, so I should probably get that all hooked back up.

What freaks me out is how inconsistent the issue is. I can unplug the relay and the gauge will just flash, or it might start up. With the relay in the gauge will probably start up, headlight may or may not come on, sometimes hitting the starter reboots the gauge, sometimes it all goes dead, sometimes i get a dramatic pop from that relay, sometimes it dies without a sound.

I guess I don't have any choice but to replace that relay, and chances are its going to have to come from Japan, which means my ass will be waiting a week to get this thing running again.   If thats even the scope of the problem that is.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome

OH, now I see what's going on!

Put you bike back together.  Next time it won't start push the stand up all the way with your foot.  My bike does it too sometimes.  The switch needs to be activated by the stand to "set" the relay so the relay will stay closed so the bike will run.

[SlimKlim]

You didn't read the thread at all did you?

The bike is in neutral, the kill switch is on run and the kickstand switch hasn't worked on this bike since I've owned it, disconnected, connected, up or down it hasn't affected whether or not the bike will start, but like I said, the bike is in neutral.

I'm experiencing a specific electrical problem. I'm describing what is happening to the gauge because its helping me determine what is getting power and when. I suspect its that relay 1.) Because of the physical sound coming from it, and 2.) The symptoms. Examining the wiring diagram, that relay shares a common ground with the instrument cluster, headlight, and turn signals, all of which are working sporadically.

Again, the attempted start up procedure: With the bike in neutral and everything in place, kill switch on, I turn the key to the on position. Sometimes I hear this relay give a healthy click, and if that happens, the gauge will boot up, the lights will come on and everything seems normal. I pull in the clutch and hit the button, and the relay snaps very loudly, the gauge and all the lights go dead. Sometimes they stay dead, as if the key was in the off position, sometimes the gauge will start power cycling, booting, dying and rebooting.

Sometimes, I can turn the key on and only the gauge will boot up, no lights, if this happens, I can hit the starter and absolutely nothing happens, no pop, no reboot, no nothing.

Sometimes, I turn the key to the on position and the gauge flashes and dies.

So its probably not the kill switch....

I just ordered a replacement relay, and in the mean time I'm going to try and make sense of the rats nest wiring in this thing. From what I can tell the neutral switch has been disconnected and that wire was run to the sidestand switch instead, and I can't find the wires originally intended for the sidestand switch. I need to get them sorted out and then I need to trace along the ground that the relay shares and look for a short. But yeah, sounds like I'm freakin out over nothing.

[BeerGarage]

You may want to try another battery.  I had this same thing happen and I too thought it was the relay.  Turns out there was a bad solder or something inside the battery.  It would read over 12v on the volt meter, but when I tried to draw any current from the battery, It would suddenly give 0v.

Just a thought.  Easy and free to check by putting jumper cables on your car battery (with car NOT running).

[Elijafir]

You know what.. The battery is not a bad theory.. I didn't pay attention when you said the battery voltage is almost 13v.  Check it again.. it should not be above 12.5 or 12.6 unless the bike is running/charging.  You could always have your battery tested for cranking amps too...

[SlimKlim]

Thanks guys! Going downstairs to check right now, I'll report back in a sec.

EDIT: THIS IS WHY I LOVE THE INTERNET!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!

I put a charger on it at 50 AMP and the starter turned, along with that relay clicking and snapping like hell.  Seriously guys, whoever came up with that idea, if you're ever driving through I'll buy you a beer. I was ready to buy a whole wiring harness to try and fix this.

I'll pick up a battery tomorrow. 

[importslife]

You may want to try another battery.  I had this same thing happen and I too thought it was the relay.  Turns out there was a bad solder or something inside the battery.  It would read over 12v on the volt meter, but when I tried to draw any current from the battery, It would suddenly give 0v.

Just a thought.  Easy and free to check by putting jumper cables on your car battery (with car NOT running).

Yes try the battery sounds like you have just a little power then you hit the starter and its gone. so yes try the battery they dont last forever 

[lilwoody]

Batteries can be fickle little buggers sometimes. They will show proper voltage but hold no amperage. There's also a 25 amp fuse in one of those water proof connectors under the seat. I don't know what it's called and it's never popped but I know where it's at and I carry a extra fuse for it.

[Elijafir]

Seriously guys, whoever came up with that idea, if you're ever driving through I'll buy you a beer.

I think it was "BeerGarage" .... How appropriate..

[SlimKlim]

Mwahaha.

[noiseguy]

For future reference: A fully charged lead-acid battery should read about 13.8V. More when it's charging.