bad pick ups?

[gregvhen]

has anyone ever heard of the ignition pick ups going bad? basically im trying to find out why my left cylinder wont fire and all i can think of now is either bad signal pick up or bad igniter. but i just bought the igniter last october or november.  what exactly is the pick up made up of? is there anything inside that little black box that could go bad?

[sledge]

Havent we done this before?

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=54035.0

[gregvhen]

alright, i checked the resistance between the leads on the igniter like the manual says, brown to black/blue, and green to black/blue. and i got infinate resistance which the books says, replace it now. BUT my multimeter doesnt have a 100 setting just a 200 setting. AND since it was infinate on both sets, then shouldnt that stop the right from firing too?  Okay, so now im gonna have to try your tricking the igniter suggestion.  so let me make sure i got it right. switch the left coil white wire with the right coil black/yellow wire. (these are the neg. colors on my bike. 1997). then swith the green/white wire from one pick up with the brown wire from the other pick up?  and see if it works.  now if the left starts firing but the right quits, this means........well, that still wouldnt tell me whether the pick ups are bad or the igniter is bad would it?  I have to leave either the pick ups the same or the coil wires the same wouldnt i?

say i leave the pick ups the same but switch the neg. wires to the coils. now my right coil should fire when the rotor crosses the LEFT cylinder pick up correct? if this happens then i know the pick up is good and the igniter must be the problem right? as i should have no spark on the left side when the rotor crosses the RIGHT pick-up. cause by having spark on the right side now, i know the right pick up is good.

[gregvhen]

right?  OH. what i need to do is plug the left coil wires into the right coil and see if i get spark. i think i tried this already but dont remember what happened. man its too late to try it now. 

[gregvhen]

okay, i switched the green and brwon pick up wires and still only the right cylinder fired. so this means the Igniter isnt firing the left side right? so im thinkin bad igniter. is there anything else to check?

[The Buddha]

Pick up being bad has happened.
OK you should try to remember how and when it failed. Post that cos I have a very good story about how they fail, except it I post it, it will clutter your thoughts.

Cool.
Buddha.

[bigfatcat]

okay, i switched the green and brwon pick up wires and still only the right cylinder fired. so this means the Igniter isnt firing the left side right? so im thinkin bad igniter. is there anything else to check?

Here's  a couple tests I did on my gs for comparison:

You can test the ignition coil by momentarily grounding the white wire at the 4r-conductor connector (that connects to the ICU (black box)).
Key switch on, trans in neutral, clutch pulled in ... you should see and hear a single spark at the spark plug (removed from that side and well grounded) - the spark is real small btw but a good spark will sound a sharp crack, though not very loud. This simply simulates closing and opening of a set of points (the ICU for our gs's) ... Spark means all is good up to the connector - no spark means a problem from common +12 vdc splice for ignition coils, to that connector. (btw you should see ~ 12 vdc on that same wire before you ground it momentarily).







You should try it on the known good side (right side) so you'll know what to look for, first. The right ignition coil grounds thru the black/yellow wire to the ICU.  (Don't crank the starter while doing any of this)

For the ICU, I got resistance measurements as follows -

3-conductor connector: 2000 ohms each side , i.e. brown to black/bllue; green/white to black/blue

4-conductor connector: black/white to white = open.
                                  black/white to blck/yellow = open
                                  black/white to orange/wh = 2.6 megohm changing up towards ~ 4 megohm

I should've measured the pickup coils resistances, forgot, maybe I'll do it later for future reference.

[gregvhen]

okay, well found out both pick ups are fine.  had both sides sparking this morning for a little bit but once the bike warmed up the left quit. since i already know the coils and pick ups are good the only left that would be temperature tempermental is the wires and igniter. being that the igniter is only 1 year old (yea, fresh from bike bandit last october for 315 bones) my friend is gonna start by checking the wiring at school with my genius high school teacher from last year. as i just dont have the time or space to keep an ongoing project while in school. hopefully he'll have good news when i go home next weekend.

[Paulcet]

Someone here had a pick up failure when hot. That part does get hot. I don't think the CDI gets that hot, but I haven't actually checked.

[sledge]

okay, well found out both pick ups are fine.  had both sides sparking this morning for a little bit but once the bike warmed up the left quit.

What makes you say they are fine  , it would appear one is failing when it warms up...this is a common and well documented GS5 fault. You have found a problem, you have said the wiring checks out so the next step is to replace the pick up.

[The Buddha]

okay, well found out both pick ups are fine.  had both sides sparking this morning for a little bit but once the bike warmed up the left quit. since i already know the coils and pick ups are good the only left that would be temperature tempermental is the wires and igniter. being that the igniter is only 1 year old (yea, fresh from bike bandit last october for 315 bones) my friend is gonna start by checking the wiring at school with my genius high school teacher from last year. as i just dont have the time or space to keep an ongoing project while in school. hopefully he'll have good news when i go home next weekend.

This was the post I was waiting for from you.
Dead giveaway sign, pickup coils are bad.
BTW if you get it started and rolling before it quits and get to ~5K and never drop below 5K it will actually run ... but the coil will start to degrade and it will die on that side, but then it will never come back ...
Anyway crank trigger, no question.
Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

Someone here had a pick up failure when hot. That part does get hot. I don't think the CDI gets that hot, but I haven't actually checked.

That part gets hot with the engine - very good paulcet. The ignitor and others are not exposed to that much heat.

Cool.
Buddha.

[gregvhen]

if i ran just the right cylinder for like 5 mineutes or so, and put a heat gun on the pick-ups, would this be enough heat to test them?

[bigfatcat]

FWIW I measured resistances of the pick up coils, from the 3-conductor plug (that connects to the ICU) :

cold: left and right 340 ohms each

hot: 425 ohms each  ( after a 30 min ride , engine case hot )

within one or two ohms of each other.

This on a 15 yr old bike running well .

[The Buddha]

if i ran just the right cylinder for like 5 mineutes or so, and put a heat gun on the pick-ups, would this be enough heat to test them?

Oddly you got it right but perfectly backwards. You wanna use freeze spray (compressed air in a can turned upside down) on the bad one to keep it working ...

Or heat gun it when cold and watch the bad one fail right away.

Cool.
Buddha.

[gregvhen]

if i ran just the right cylinder for like 5 mineutes or so, and put a heat gun on the pick-ups, would this be enough heat to test them?

Oddly you got it right but perfectly backwards. You wanna use freeze spray (compressed air in a can turned upside down) on the bad one to keep it working ...

Or heat gun it when cold and watch the bad one fail right away.

Cool.
Buddha.

yep thats a much better idea. ill have to try that. do you know which pick-up is for which cylinder? i cant tell from the schematic or anything.

[The Buddha]

I dunno which pickup for which cyl ...
Spray both, or as it cuts out spray 1, and the other.
Cool.
Buddha.