Signal Rotor FIXED!. Starting the engine that was drained...another problem

[junk301]

Ok something has just come to my attention. I'm going to check under the cover tomorrow but i'm hoping this is the issue. That little idle gear that connects the flywheel to the starter gear fell out before I was about to install the cover. So i had to jimmy it back in there before i fit on the cover. I'm thinking that I messed up the installation.

[adidasguy]

There is the pin that the idle gear goes on. Good call if that's all it is.

[junk301]

well the pin was in there, but maybe it shifted slightly, i will check. thanks for your continued responses.

[adidasguy]

With the cover off again, you can hit the starter button for a second and see if things are turning. A second without oil will be OK as long as the engine doesn't start up on you (pull the plug wires?).

[junk301]

I took off the cover again and I couldn't find that anything was really amiss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0rJJ9cYzR8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I'm bringing the bike to someone since I don't have a flywheel puller.

[adidasguy]

Sounds like air noise from the exhaust. The whining doesn't seem fast enough for the flywheel to be slipping.
Did you remove the left cover again? I wonder if something is wrong there, like the flywheel rubbing on the stator.

[junk301]

I really wouldnt have the faintest idea. Yes i removed the cover again. Everything seemed in order, stator wire was neatly placed. I'm bringing it to a trustworthy mechanic for a diagnosis. He is going to pick it up tomorrow or thursday and hopefully he could get to the bottom of it. Does the noise its making sound at all like an engine issue(the internals). I checked compression and thats good. The plugs are also good. Timing is one of my worries.

[adidasguy]

If you had compression tested, then it is cranking.
Do you have any spark?
Maybe ignition problem?

[Janx101]

ummm .. that sounded odd... but i have never heard a bike trying to start without actually firing like that...

ummm... its not turning over backwards is it? ... i dont know if thats even possible with a bike motor... but i do know that very rarely a diesel will just decide to crank backwards if there is a dodgy starter issue...  ... ive only ever actually seen it twice in farm machinery over 30 years of being around diesels in general ..

is it possible to hook the wires to the starter bass-ackwards so it would spin wrong way?.... 

just my radical way out of left field idea eh 

[adidasguy]

Starter has one wire. Frame is ground. Can't hood a starter up backwards. With the starter clutch, you can't start it backwards.
I almost think no spark.

Then we don't know everything that was done. What if the main gear was not driving the transmission? If you get it into gear, will turning the wheel turn the motor? (try for a high gear)
Or will the wheel turn if you override the safety switches and blip the starter for 1/2 a second?

[junk301]

one issue I felt is occasionally when the bike was in gear I couldn't roll it around with the clutch engaged. something is very wrong with this.

[junk301]

I thought the exact same thing janx. running backwards that is.

[junk301]

u also felt that when trying to start it in gear. the bike would push forward slightly. just remembering this all now

[Janx101]

It been several hours since I listened to the vid at work with good speakers... iPad won't cut it.... It just sounded weird... Like the whirring chug chug ponk chug chug (my version of starter noises) ... Was in wrong sequence?

Addy knows heaps more about it all of course... It's unlikely it would turn over backwards....

And not trying to be a pain .. But when you do turn a bike over normally ... Does the exhaust give a puff puff OUTwards of air before it fires? ... Cos logic follows then that the airflow would be sucking rather than puffing....

I don't know if the starter tip 'gear' could/can come off and be put on backwards? ...

Sorry... Just working the idea over out loud... Right or wrong... I like to extrapolate oddball theories till I get shushed 

[junk301]

I feel like the timing is the problem.earlier in the thread I mentioned that the machine shop installed a new timing pin 180 degrees from the existing and drilled a new window 180 degrees from the origin in the advanced. I feel that they may of installed it backwards. could this make sense and how much damage would it of caused I'd I tried starting the bike this way. fyi I havent tried starting the bike for more than 20seconds since o heard the squeeling.

[sledge]

Is there any way the timing rotor could be the issue?

Yes..... see my earlier comment.

Those new holes in the crank and the rotor need to be precisely, that's........ PRECISELY!!! 180deg from the originals.

The rotor only has to be a degree out of sync with the crank to effect timing.

You need to check the timing marks before you go any further.

The procedure for timing F`s has been covered many times, here is just one of them....

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=58952.0

So..........You said you were going to check the timing have you done it yet?

[adidasguy]

You can see the starter parts in my latest video.
The starter motor turns a spur gear, which has a pinion attached to it. That pinion turns the big gear on the starter clutch.
There is a solid steel pin the intermediate gears go on. That pin also goes into the side cover. Hardly possible for any of that to go wrong due to the fit. anything wrong and the side cover will not go on.

Now, if the starter gear was removed from the magnet rotor, the bits for the starter clutch could have fallen out. There are 3 of them. If 1 or 2 fell out, you would get the engine to turn over but probably it would slip a little.

[junk301]

to sledge ....no I forgot to. this just came to my attention whilst at work. at adidasguy..I don't think they came out. one did but I put it back in with the spring.

[junk301]

K my mind is everywhere right now.however in one of my local forums someone has brought something to my attention. in my most recent video as I'm holding down the starter, I let go of it and the bike continues to crank. is it possible for the starter motor to be permanently engaged?   could the squeeling be caused by the starter motor trying to turn that crank while it is already spinning?

[adidasguy]

Due to the starter clutch, you can hit the starter with the bike running. Nothing really happens. The starter does spin, but since the crank is already turning, you don't hear anything except maybe a little of the starter motor turning. Probably won't notice anything because the starter motor by itself is really quiet unless it is worn out.

If starter motor were permanently running, it would happen as soon as you turn on the key.

There is no "starter solenoid" as in cars. We have the clutch where the starter gear mates with the magnet rotor. Only other thing is a starter relay. That's there only because the starter required a lot of power and the switch in the handlebars isn't hefty enough for that amount of power (just look at the size of the wire going to the starter motor).