killing the octane myth (next death is brands)

[ohgood]

since I've seen so much bullhockey about fuel a is better than fuel b, and "I can really tell a difference" let's put it to the test.

"oh, no fair ! I'm the most elitist of all elite audiophiles and can tell when there is a real $20000 monster cable pumping a 256bit mp3 to my beatsphones, and surely know the difference between inferior fuels without actually TESTING myself !!!" some might say.

yes, I'm completely mocking. yes, this is your chance to prove you have superior input receptors, and can actually tell which fuel is better, in a motorcycle. what ? no 50psi road raping uber tuned ralley cars ? correct, those are hardly a gs, and there is zero relativity between what the space shuttle uses vs a motorbike.

no more myths, just simple proof. ha.


1 buy 3 fuel tanks, and fill with the lowest octane available, AT ALL PUMPS IN YOUR AREA, the mid range, and the highest. do not add anything to it, and use it the same day. no letting it sit for 4 weeks in an open container next to the sea.

have one friend label the tanks a, b, c for whatever is in them, and squirrel away which is which.

*ride the bike 10 miles on whatever is in it*
*drain your current tank and fuel bowls. splash with any of the fuels, then drain again.*



pour in 1/2 gallon, or whatever that is in liters, bushels, pecs, drops, dribbles, or something. you're only riding ten miles, and draining the bowls after.

ride your motorcycle 10 miles, then pour the remainder back into the correct container, along with emptying the float bowls, and record your impressions for a b and c.

88888888888888888

I don't care if you use a gs500 or a scooter or anything in between. grab whatever you ride every day.

88888888888888888

this is a proving thread, not a "but I already know my butt dyno" thread.

if you don't have results, go start another oil or fuel thread with amazing butt dyno numbers. or a monster cable / wooden- knobs-audiophile blathering.

cool. who's in ?

[Janx101]

Hmmm... I deliberately switched to e10 ... And prefer filling at the local station cos I know they have a high turnover ... And good filters that do get changed on the pumps every month .. 'Just in case' ...
They advertise it as 94 Ron (Aussie version)
Another nearly local place doesn't filter or turn over quite as much .. But I've had no dramas from there either ... They advertise it as 91 Ron... As do most all the other places ..

But I'm usually skeptical of any advertised Ron number .... And why does that particular smaller chain of fuel outlets have '94' e10?

Come to think of it ... I didn't really even notice much difference switching from whatever 'real fuel' to e10 .... Sometimes idling it would purr slightly smoother or rougher with various different fuels ... But cos of age of fuel?, air temp?, Kms since service? .. How gunked/carboned the plug were that day? ... Temp of fuel in the ground tanks? (Btw the temp of fuel when the tanker delivers it to the station IS a big deal ... And over several thousand measured litres can make a significant difference to the actual litres in the holding tanks) .. If I have to switch between e10 and real fuel I do try to have the tank as empty as possible ... Mainly because I did some reading and several official reports seems to indicate that mixing the 2 types is more likely to draw the 'water content' out of the e10 and form its own layer in the tank pretty quick

In principle I agree with your premise ... The gs500 at 'all our' tuning levels .. won't really make any better use of 'Big Bang' fuel ... Power wise ... Or really much noticeable difference distance wise ...

But sometimes ... And I have no idea why ... Got a load of fuel whether ethanol or not ... From a few various servos.... And the bike hates it!! ... It just doesn't run as good for that whole tankful ... Next time I go there it's fine again.... So whatever is happening there can be variations in quality ... Age wise or particulate wise or something ... I don't know! ... But it does happen...

I can't be arsed doing the whole gallon can thing ... But I will be upfront and mention if I happen to suddenly notice a particularly 'good or bad' batch of fuel .... Drain some into a jar .. And take it to my mate who drives fuel tankers ... Who can then take it to the 'quality control test/monitor'  bloke at the storage facility in Sydney and probably find out what the frag is different for that particular tankful ... And there are tankers of all types/haulage companies/brands ... all hauling out of that tank farm! ... The 'test for a mate' thing is pretty much off the record ... Can't be used for legal purposes ... You have to pay for a 'legal valid' test ... But I think it will be suitable for the purposes here.

Hope that's of some use. 

[slipperymongoose]

Ill start by pissing in my fuel tank and see what happens and how the bike feels 

[Wagoneer]

Usually it's not the octane you'll notice, it's how clean the fuel is.

For instance, every time I go to the states and fill my car up, I can actually tell the difference. The states has much higher regulations for gasoline imports and MUCH higher regulations for their diesel fuels. My brother's smart car had a 10km/h top speed difference on US diesel than Canadian diesel.

[john]

No expert, but at certain altitudes low octane fuel in Ram 1500's will cause spark knock.  They require 89 minimum.  At other altitudes 87 will work but not always.

As far as power... octane will do nothing.  Put race fuel in your GS/gsxr/R6 and it will do nothing.

[89500inPA]

since I've seen so much bullhockey about fuel a is better than fuel b, and "I can really tell a difference" let's put it to the test.

or maybe we could just ignore them and they will go away...

[mjj4]

I don't think many people understand the difference between normal unleaded and high octane unleaded. Many people think that the higher the octane the bigger the bang but this is not true.

High octane is a slower burning fuel which means on a stock GS engine you will lose power by running high octane fuel!

High octane fuel is for:

High compression engines
Highly advanced timing on engines
Forced induction to cause larger cylinder pressures than factory design.

If you have a any of the above characteristics in your engine then you may find running low octane causes pre detonation or knocking. This can be stopped by running higher octane, retarding ignition, lowering compression blah blah you get the picture. When you build an engine for high power you don't want to reduce compression, boost or retard timing so you use high octane and set it up that way.

If you advance your timing on your GS so that it just starts knocking you can fill it up with high octane and the knocking will stop (depending on amount of ignition advancing obviously).

If you run high octane in your GS when it runs fine on lower grade octane then you are wasting your money and losing power.

[RossLH]

The GS500 does not, in any way, shape, or form, need high octane fuel. Every now and then you'll come across some bad fuel if you buy off-brand cheap stuff (my bike has some bad fuel in it right now), but it's not a very demanding engine. What exactly is it you're trying to prove here?

[nutmunk]

I once ran my rg on cheap whiskey...does that count? 

[twocool]

The octane myth has ALREADY been long debunked, and put to bed..........There are literally hundreds of articles available on the internet.......

I would love to participate in a double blind test.......but you are preaching to the choir as far as I am concerned......

The fun would be to get one of those.."I know my bike and I can "feel" the difference guys"....and have HIM do a blind test....

Trouble is...even that would not convince him......and worse yet...for every person you might convince...there are a million knuckleheads who will continue to perpetuate the myth!

BTW...I have run my GS on high octane ..twice...when the pump guy just assumed I wanted high test, because all the other motorcycle knuckleheads always get high test........(yeah,here in Jersey, they pump the gas for us...full service...and gas is about the cheapest in the USA...so you don't have to spend the rest of the day with your hands stinking of gas...)

Anyway....with the tank of high test.........my GS was EXACTLY the same as it was with a tank of regular......

Cookie

since I've seen so much bullhockey about fuel a is better than fuel b, and "I can really tell a difference" let's put it to the test.

"oh, no fair ! I'm the most elitist of all elite audiophiles and can tell when there is a real $20000 monster cable pumping a 256bit mp3 to my beatsphones, and surely know the difference between inferior fuels without actually TESTING myself !!!" some might say.

yes, I'm completely mocking. yes, this is your chance to prove you have superior input receptors, and can actually tell which fuel is better, in a motorcycle. what ? no 50psi road raping uber tuned ralley cars ? correct, those are hardly a gs, and there is zero relativity between what the space shuttle uses vs a motorbike.

no more myths, just simple proof. ha.


1 buy 3 fuel tanks, and fill with the lowest octane available, AT ALL PUMPS IN YOUR AREA, the mid range, and the highest. do not add anything to it, and use it the same day. no letting it sit for 4 weeks in an open container next to the sea.

have one friend label the tanks a, b, c for whatever is in them, and squirrel away which is which.

*ride the bike 10 miles on whatever is in it*
*drain your current tank and fuel bowls. splash with any of the fuels, then drain again.*



pour in 1/2 gallon, or whatever that is in liters, bushels, pecs, drops, dribbles, or something. you're only riding ten miles, and draining the bowls after.

ride your motorcycle 10 miles, then pour the remainder back into the correct container, along with emptying the float bowls, and record your impressions for a b and c.

88888888888888888

I don't care if you use a gs500 or a scooter or anything in between. grab whatever you ride every day.

88888888888888888

this is a proving thread, not a "but I already know my butt dyno" thread.

if you don't have results, go start another oil or fuel thread with amazing butt dyno numbers. or a monster cable / wooden- knobs-audiophile blathering.

cool. who's in ?

[Blueknyt]

Higher compression ratio engines tend to notice octane differences, my GS500 did not care from one grade to another for the most part. my GS750E Did, it also prefered  Amaco Gold (93) premium verses BP,mobil, exxon,tomthum or racetrak.    the GS500 did not like cheveron at all, didnt matter which station or grade.

[ohgood]

that was easy. thanks guys. do I need to start a new thread for killing off the BRANDS myth now, or shall we continue here ?

[Janx101]

hang on ... because you have a few in agreement now ... its all peachy and no double blind tests needed? ... wishy washy!!! 

[RossLH]

that was easy. thanks guys. do I need to start a new thread for killing off the BRANDS myth now, or shall we continue here ?

That'd only work for brand name gas, like ExxonMobil and Shell. The off-brand cheap gas companies don't have their own refineries, they fill their pumps with whatever is cheapest that day. Such a gas station will have a bastardized BP product one day and a bastardized Chevron product the next day, if not a mix of whatever was left from previous days on top of that.

When you buy name brand gas, you're paying for consistency. If you fill up at one name brand station every time, you'll get fuel from the same source, with the same additives (aside from the switch between winter gas and summer gas in some regions), and bad gas will be more of a rarity. If you fill up at an off-brand station every time, you're always getting different fuels with different slurries of additives, and you're much more likely to get a bad batch.

So I'll again ask....what are you trying to prove here?

[Tallemertes]

What about filling up with higher octanes for less ethanol? I believe here the 87 oc. has up to 10%, the 89 oc. has up to 5%, and the 91 octane is ethanol free. I've heard ethanol is hard on smaller engines like lawn mowers and motorcycles. Is that true?

[gsJack]

We really haven't covered the gas octane subject or the best gas brand subject until we have had a full discussion of oil viscosity combined with gas octane.    You must have known it was coming!

I've run my current 02 GS all of it's 99k miles on the lowest grade regular gas buying it from any gas station without even thinking about whether it contains alcohol or how much if it does and it's run smooth, cool, and knock free all the way, but it wasn't always that way with my Hondas and my 97 first GS.


Copied from old post of mine:


My tale of octanes, gas knocks, and oil grades.

I had four 400-750cc Hondas I used 10W-40 oil winters and 20W-50 summers after they had some milage on them for the 230k miles I put on them.  When I got the 97 GS new I ran 15W-50 Mobil I full synthetic for about 50k miles after break-in.  After all 5 (4 Hondas and 97 GS) got 10-20k miles or so on them getting carboned up they developed gas knock in hot weather under load so I used mid range gas in them summers to eliminate the knock.  When oil consumption increased I replaced the more expensive Mobil I with the 15W-40 heavy duty aka diesel oil and then one hot summer day I inadvertantly filled it with regular 87 octane gas and it never knocked.  And it never knocked again for the next 30k miles I put on it with the 15W-40 oil.  My 02 GS has gone all of it's 90k+ miles on 15W-40 oil and regular 87 octane gas without a single knock.

Conclusion:  A 89-02 GS500 runs cooler on 10/15W-40 oil than on 15/20W-50 oil, no doubt in my mind.  Never had a 04 or later model with an oil cooler so I can't vouch for them but I would run the same in them myself.

About 60 or so years ago I worked in a garage summers while going to school and we were painting some trucks for the Pure Oil Co and I was driving some of them back and forth.  Every time I pulled into their yards I saw a line of tankers marked with many brand names of the day filling up and have never believed for the decades since that I was buying the brand I thought I was.

[twocool]

OK....Here is candidate #1 for double blind test on Brands of fuel!


Are you in?


Cookie

Higher compression ratio engines tend to notice octane differences, my GS500 did not care from one grade to another for the most part. my GS750E Did, it also prefered  Amaco Gold (93) premium verses BP,mobil, exxon,tomthum or racetrak.    the GS500 did not like cheveron at all, didnt matter which station or grade.

[twocool]

I'd say we are trying to prove that scientific objective testing will (may) show quite different results, than subjective, I know my bike and I know what I feel type not scientific anecdotal info shows...

Unfortunately, it will also show who the real idiots are!

Cookie

that was easy. thanks guys. do I need to start a new thread for killing off the BRANDS myth now, or shall we continue here ?

That'd only work for brand name gas, like ExxonMobil and Shell. The off-brand cheap gas companies don't have their own refineries, they fill their pumps with whatever is cheapest that day. Such a gas station will have a bastardized BP product one day and a bastardized Chevron product the next day, if not a mix of whatever was left from previous days on top of that.

When you buy name brand gas, you're paying for consistency. If you fill up at one name brand station every time, you'll get fuel from the same source, with the same additives (aside from the switch between winter gas and summer gas in some regions), and bad gas will be more of a rarity. If you fill up at an off-brand station every time, you're always getting different fuels with different slurries of additives, and you're much more likely to get a bad batch.

So I'll again ask....what are you trying to prove here?

[slipperymongoose]

I pissed in my tank now the bike won't start. Should I use 95 or 98 to dilute the piss a bit?

[ohgood]

The octane myth has ALREADY been long debunked, and put to bed..........There are literally hundreds of articles available on the internet.......

I would love to participate in a double blind test.......but you are preaching to the choir as far as I am concerned......

The fun would be to get one of those.."I know my bike and I can "feel" the difference guys"....and have HIM do a blind test....

....

Cookie

yeppers. that's what i was hoping for. just one guy/gal seeing the light would have made my day.