Valve clearances increased dramatically after cleaning shims

[Bluesmudge]

Yeah its good to be honest with your mechanical ability, your understanding of the engine, but also your finances.

If you don't need the bike for transportation and have more time than money, you can really take your time and learn as you go. If you somehow screw it up even further then at least you will know you learned something in the process.
I know I learned a ton replacing the head on mine. Before that I had no real idea how a 4 cylinder internal combustion engine worked. I didn't do the job perfectly but it was good enough for another 20,000 miles until I could afford to have an expert look at it. The choice is yours and we are here to help you along the way.

There are good Youtube video and the Haynes/Clymer manuals walk you through it all.

[Frankiechops]

'I doubt you will have the kit knowledge or experience to do it yourself.....at least properly'

Correct, correct and correct!

I certainly won't be reconditioning the head myself. I'll take it off and get a quote from a mechanic to fix it. Otherwise I have found a low km head for $300 AU that I'll put on instead. Time or money are a huge concern, but having said that I'm not prepared to spend thousands on it, but I want to get back on it as soon as possible. Haynes manual is on its way and I've got the Suzuki arrive manual.

I really do appreciate everyone's time and help 👍

Is there anyone in Oz that has a ball park figure that a mechanic would charge if I took the head in?

Thanks all

[Frankiechops]

So I can buy a low KMs full cylinder head off a highly rated wrecker on eBay. No leaks when filled with water upside down, so I assume the valves have a good seal. He has just pulled it off the engine today, but it hasn't been run for 5 years. Thoughts on potential issues with sitting for that long? I realise it's always going to be a gamble

Thanks

[johnny ro]

I am in same boat, I did not think to wreck mine with a screwdriver, I used a tie wrap head in the plug hole.

The rubber valve stem seals are an age item. I bought new viton seals to go with my new valve for very low $. My new seals are blue.

The other parts arrive in a week and I do my own reconditioning.

If I saw a clean black painted 89-90 head, I might buy it.

[Frankiechops]

More than one wrong way to skin a cat!

[sledge]

No leaks when filled with water upside down

Water???  So now there is a chance of flash rusting 

Next time use petrol/gas 

[Frankiechops]

Well, 'liquid' was the term used, I just interpreted it as water. Anyway, I bought it and should arrive midweek and I'll take it from there. I'm assuming it'll be top notch because I'm choosing to be positive. Regarding gaskets, I'll need the cylinder head gasket, and from other posts I've read I should get the cylinder base gasket also as that can sometimes sperate when removing the head? Anything else? I'll take the current head off tomorrow. I couldn't find any instructions to remove while still in the bike. If I remove the carbs and exhaust should it be just the same process as when out of the bike?   

[mr72]

Sounds like you are on the right track. I'd replace the valve stem seals on the replacement head just because they are cheap and you have it on the bench.

[The Buddha]

When the head is off look at the pistons and see if you have any impact divots from the valves, if not, you're OK.
And it may be worth getting the cyls honed etc like bluesmudge said, the GS motor is built loose from the factory, you may be running into the same problem as he did in short order.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Bluesmudge]

Regarding gaskets, I'll need the cylinder head gasket, and from other posts I've read I should get the cylinder base gasket also as that can sometimes sperate when removing the head? Anything else?

You definitely want a new base gasket and piston rings and a cylinder honing tool because you really want to be honing the cylinders and putting in new rings if you are that deep in the top end already. You can probably rent the honing tool from an auto parts store. Its a simple tool that attaches to an electric drill and takes ~5 seconds going in and out per cylinder to hone.
You will also want new viton valve seals because the head thats been sitting for 5 years will need them (get a shop to that part). The new seals are optional but after all this work it will be nice to not be blowing a cloud of oil out the exhaust every time you start the engine.
Then you need the copper washers that the cylinder head nuts sit on.I think there are 6 of them? Check the parts fiche.
You also might as well replace the valve cover gasket and valve cover allen bolt o-rings.
You will probably also end up needing some additional shim sizes but wait until you know your clearances to order those.
Also spend the $15 on the motion pro shim tool that would have avoided this whole scenario in the first place.

[sledge]

You definitely want a new base gasket and piston rings and a cylinder honing tool because you really want to be honing the cylinders and putting in new rings.

At 10K Km (6200 miles)  Really

You people kill me  What you would do is of no consequence, its what he is capable off and needs to do that matters.

Appreciate you want to help him but this is a guy who by his own admission has nothing and knows nothing!!
The best advice anyone can give him is to read the manual and let him decide what he is comfortable with instead of making the job more complicated than it needs to be and scaring him. Furthermore its a low mileage head he is buying so is there any need to be concerned over the stem seals. They don't dry out just like the ones that sit on parts shelves for months/years dont and unless the cylinder block moves there is no need to change the base gasket.

Frankie?
Buy the head
Buy and read a manual......I find Haynes to be the best. It covers the whole process in section 2:15
Buy a gasket set like this. https://www.mandp.co.uk/products/gs500e-89-00-full-gasket-set-511609
Get some tools together including a good torque wrench
Be very careful getting the header bolts out, they are prone to seizing and rounding off
Dont forget about the bolt at the front of the head. #10 in the drawing.
Be aware there may be piston damage.

[The Buddha]

Sledge - The GS motor has sloppy and loose rings right from the factory. So many many of these use oil basically from 10K or less. And its a problem shared by a lot of jap bikes with Intruder 1400 and vulcan 1500's being notorious for using a quart between changes and having the manual say that its "normal".
Cool.
Buddha.

[chris900f]

Here's something to watch while you wait for parts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X0VwcdZq7M&t=1s

You can pull the head with the engine in the frame, as long as you clear some space by unplugging some of the harness connectors.

As long as you DO NOT turn the motor with the head removed you don't need to replace a non-leaking base gasket at 10k IMO. You DO need to replace the
special copper crush washers under the head bolts, and you need a new head gasket.

With the head removed you will be able to see a section of the cylinder wall on one side or the other (don't move the motor to look at the other side lol)
Unless you see big scratches, or it's polished like a mirror, I would leave it alone. Removing the block makes this job exponentially more difficult. At such low
mileage I would not expect to see any big problems unless the bike had been seriously abused.

[Frankiechops]

Okay, head is off without too much drama!
Three bent valves as suspected.
So looking on the bright side, I didn't take it off for nothing. Gotta take the little wins where you can

Thanks to BaltimoreGS for the good video

According to their video taking off the cylinder block and checking the piston is pretty simple. If there is damage i replace the pistons and take the block to the shop to hone? How does that sound?

Cheers all 👍

Appreciate

[chris900f]

Good job, now you have a spare head

Use the BaltimoreGS socket trick to pop out the cotters and you can pull the bad valves
and check the condition of the seats. If damaged, the seats can easily be re-cut at a good shop.

Check the tops of the pistons, can you see impact spots? Likely nothing more than scuffs in the carbon.

At hand rotation speed you are probably not generating enough force to do serious damage, more of a
vise-like bending action than a hammer strike.

[sledge]

[quote author=chris900f link=topic=73910.msg886427#msg886427 date=1646437531

You DO need to replace the
special copper crush washers under the head bolts, and you need a new head gasket.


[/quote]

In addition the 4 o-rings item #9 on the drawing

[Frankiechops]

Cool, I'll order the gasket kit as suggested. Sledge, the engine remained the same from 2004 onwards right? Just that I can't find any kits for the 2010 model specifically. I've no doubt replacing the copper washers is a good idea, and they're only a few dollars. My question is why? They seem perfectly fine. Is it something to do with the amount they can compress, once tensioned once they don't compress any more? Chris, I'll post some photos of the piston tops tomorrow. They seem fine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt it damage the sides of the pistons that would be the issue, not the top?

Once again, thanks all

[sledge]

The copper washers, along with every other seal and gasket you need will be included in the kit. Sell the ones you dont use on ebay if you can be bothered

Unless the pistons are cracked or there are significant pieces of them missing! leave them and the block alone. A few dents on the tops are not going to be an issue. You are just making unnecessary work for yourself, spending more time and money than you need to and complicating a relatively easy job.

If you took your bike to a shop and asked them to just swap the heads over and they came back to you saying "You gotta change the pistons and rings, you gotta hone the bores, you gotta change the base gasket, you gotta do the valve seals and lap them in......etc etc etc. They would be branded as con artists!!!

[Frankiechops]

Chris, for some reason your second last post only just turned up for me. Luckily I haven't turned the motor. The visibal cylinder wall looks nicely cross hatched with no scratches. I managed to wiggle the the head out but I think I'll make some more room to get it back in. Sledge, no cracks or missing pieces in the pi6atons. I'll order the full gasket kit. I wasn't concerned about the $$$ for the washers, just wondering about the  engineering reason behind replacing them  Really I just want to get back out on the road.

To add insult to injury, saddle bags I ordered before all this business arrived in the mail today. They look great sitting on the sofa 🙄. Anyway, head and Haynes manual should arrive this week, and hopefully the gaskets.. On that topic, is generic gasket goo sealent fine (from my car) or is there specific specs for motorcycles?

[sledge]

You wont need any `gasket goo`......again.....every seal and gasket you will need will be in the kit.

YOU WILL need a decent torque wrench that can accommodate 40Nm