Hello, my name is Nick and I am new to the forum. About 6-7 years ago I had an 89 GS that I bought while in boxes and used the forum to help me get it back together and running, which I then ***STUPIDLY*** sold within 3 months. I have recently been fortunate enough to get my hands on another project, so I am back again with questions! :thumb:
I recently bought a 1990 GS500 from craigslist which was not running. The details that I got when I purchased the bike was that it was running ok but needed some carb/idle adjustment, then when the previous owner switched the speedo/tach out, it wouldn't start again after that. First thing I'm replacing is the battery because it will barely honk the horn or turn the lights on, but my question is where to go after that? I know the gauges might be a good place to start but could gauges from the wrong model really stop it from starting?
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d829b3127ccec4054c3e11b600000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d829b3127ccec4052ebd110400000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
I looked on the parts numbers and the 2000+ have a different part number than 89-99, could that be the problem if they used the newer gauges and didn't wire them correctly?
Thank you for any input. :cheers:
Nick Caldwell
Those look like gauges from an F model.The tach not hooked up will not stop the engine from running.The only difference in tachs is the F model is electric and the original is run by cable.You'll need to check the engine where the cable goes to make sure it has the F model plug where the original tach cable attached.There is a write up on using newer gauges on an older bike.The not running part is probably a loose connection in the head light from when the gauges were changed.If you've pieced a bike together this should be an easy task for you.Also have a local auto parts store charge and check the battery.
I have that exactly gauge on the 2001 ,. i think its just the upgraded look , when they changed all the plastics , .. Its cable driven on my 2001 ,
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u148/James_Jay_Wolf/16052008555.jpg)
I have replaced the battery, and haven't had a chance to look into the wiring for the new gauges. I did get the older gauges from the gentleman I bought it from today to compare though. One other concern is, when I hit the start button, the solinoid clicks, but the engine doesn't turn over. How do I determine if the engine is seized :mad: :mad: or if the starter motor is locked up?
Thanks,
Nick
Thats a Dead battery.. Not enough Power to turn the Starter Over
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 08, 2008, 02:33:50 PM
I have replaced the battery, and haven't had a chance to look into the wiring for the new gauges. I did get the older gauges from the gentleman I bought it from today to compare though. One other concern is, when I hit the start button, the solinoid clicks, but the engine doesn't turn over. How do I determine if the engine is seized :mad: :mad: or if the starter motor is locked up?
Thanks,
Nick
Sounds like a bad starter relay,starter clutch or possible starter.To check the engine,put the bike on the center stand,place it in 6th gear and try to turn the rear wheel forward.Removing the spark plugs helps relieve the compression making it easier to turn over.
Quote from: Jay_wolf on June 08, 2008, 02:34:56 PM
Thats a Dead battery.. Not enough Power to turn the Starter Over
Battery is brand new, I'm going right now to check if I can turn the wheel in sixth gear.
Put bike up on centerstand, put into 6th gear, and when trying to turn the tire I could lift the bike almost off its center stand.
This doesn't look good. Sounds like the motor is seized doesn't it?
I pulled out the sparkplugs and this is what I have:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d829b3127ccec404c4bdb00d00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
and this nasty bugger:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d829b3127ccec4056a1690bd00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Any other ways to verify the motor being seized?
Did you pull the plugs out before trying to spin the wheel?
It could still be a bad starter clutch or a bad stator that's lost it's magnets.Read through these.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13774.0
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38758.msg437562#msg437562
I don't have a clue whats happen to the orange colored plug.Never seen that on anything.
I did try pushing it with it in 5th or 6th gear and once I quit sissy pushing and actually starting RUNNING beside it, the tire did roll until the speed dropped? Maybe a good sign? I am now draining the oil and will pull the side cover off soon. Any tips, or input on checking out the rotor/stator?
Nick
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 08, 2008, 04:31:27 PM
I did try pushing it with it in 5th or 6th gear and once I quit sissy pushing and actually starting RUNNING beside it, the tire did roll until the speed dropped? Maybe a good sign? I am now draining the oil and will pull the side cover off soon. Any tips, or input on checking out the rotor/stator?
Nick
Look for chipped epoxy that the stator coils and rotor magnets are coated with.Look for loose,cracked,or chipped magnets and stator poles.Here's how to check the electrical side of it. http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38480.0
Pics comming soon, but one question. I tried to rotate the rotor counter-clock wise like the post from Srinath said (this thread http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13774.0 (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13774.0)) but the bolt felt like it was going to loosen or break!!!!! I'm loading pics as we speak, but the gear next to the stator in this link http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13774.0 (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13774.0) is next to my rotor!
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Nick
Heres the Rotor, upon turning that center bolt counter-clockwise it started to losen? I thought it should crank the engine?
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d829b3127ccec404026d318e00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
and the Stator
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d829b3127ccec4056cb6112e00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Both seem in good condition to me? I tested the starter and it turned with nothing hooked up to it. Something else isn't moving causing the bike not to start!
HELP!
Anyone?
Sorry.I was away for a bit.Starwalt spun the starter by connecting it directly to the battery.I know it will spin if you connect the starter wire to the positive post and touch a ground wire to the starter case.Might wanna check the threads I posted earlier or contact starwalt about how he did it.If it does spin, it's probably a bad relay.
I was able to get the starter to spin by reconnecting the back portion of the cover (with the clutch and shifter portion) and with no other gears attached the starter spun freely. As soon as I put the gear back in to attach it to the gear behind the rotor, it won't spin. I know the relay is good, and I know the starter motor is good. Now I need to find out what is stuck from that point. This might be a case of seized engine.
I tried to spin the rotor using the bolt in the center of the rotor, but when I turned it counter-clockwise (towards the front of the bike) the rotor wouldn't move and it felt as I was loosening the bolt. Being as I don't know if its left or right hand threads, I was afraid to turn much more as I don't want to break the bolt. If it is left hand threads, then something is stopping the rotor from spinning while in nuetral and with no brakes applied!
Thanks for all the help so far, but any other tips? I did find out the bike has been sitting for 6 months, could the pistons be rusted in the sleeves and thats causing it not to spin?
Nick
It could be condensation caused rust.That could be the orange stuff that's on the plug.Give each cylinder a good squirt of penetrating oil.May have to set over night.The rotor bolt has standard threads,so right tight,left loose.You can remove the small round cover on the other side and try to turn the ignition rotor bolt.With the plugs out and in neutral, it shouldn't be hard to turn by hand.Did you check the starter clutch?It's the double gear set above and behind the rotor just to the right.They fail and can lockup the engine by way of the starter clutch gear drive.
The drive clutch could have come apart.If the clutch lever feels really soft or really stiff,this could be a possibility.I've only hard of it once or twice on a GS.Of course it's under the other cover.If it comes to this get a 99 to 01 SV650S clutch.I have Mac Cycles SV650 friction discs and Barrnet clutch springs.Works like a dream.
I removed the starter clutch, it spun freely on the rod through the center, and would freely spin backwards with the gear attached behind the rotor. With that starter clutch removed, I hit the start button and the starter motor spun freely as well.
So we have the following I know are good:
1.) Battery (just replaced)
2.) Starter Relay
3.) Starter Motor
4.) Starter Clutch
5.) Rotor and Stator
I am picking up some WD-40 to spray in the cylinders to see if that will work the pistons free, and I will take off the right side cover to see if I can spin the ignition rotor bolt. I'm assuming I need to turn it right since its on the other side of the bike (assuming I need to spin it in the direction of the front tires?)?
Clutch feels fine to me, but any suggestions on testing?
Also, if pushing it in 5th or 6th gear and dropping clutch would spin the tire, how could that happen if something was seized? Could the clutch slip allowing the tire to spin freely? How do you suggest checking if the piston is moving? I've thought about a long screw driver down the spark plug hole while I drop the clutch but am a little nervous with the damage that could cause!
Thanks,
Nick
A summary and some questions:
1. Brand new battery (are you sure it was properly charged?)
2. Solenoid clicks, but bike will not start (relay is stated as "good"; how was this tested?)
edit: I re-read your post and I think you stated that with the the starter gears disconnected, pressing the start button turned the starter motor? If so, this would explain the conclusion that all switches (clutch, sidestand etc.) and relays are good.
3. Removed sparkplugs; one of them appeared rusted.
4. Placed bike on centrestand (with plugs out) and tried to turn rear tire with bike in 6th gear - NO TURN
5. Ran alongside bike (in 6th gear) and dropped clutch - REAR WHEEL TURNS
If you put the bike in neutral, does the rear tire spin freely?
If you pull in the clutch, does the rear tire spin freely?
Now that you have gotten the rear wheel to turn (i.e. item 5), what happens if you repeat step 4?
Shine a flashlight into the spark plug holes and look for rust, broken valves, etc.
Quote from: beRto on June 09, 2008, 09:21:45 AM
A summary and some questions:
1. Brand new battery (are you sure it was properly charged?)
2. Solenoid clicks, but bike will not start (relay is stated as "good"; how was this tested?)
edit: I re-read your post and I think you stated that with the the starter gears disconnected, pressing the start button turned the starter motor? If so, this would explain the conclusion that all switches (clutch, sidestand etc.) and relays are good.
3. Removed sparkplugs; one of them appeared rusted.
4. Placed bike on centrestand (with plugs out) and tried to turn rear tire with bike in 6th gear - NO TURN
5. Ran alongside bike (in 6th gear) and dropped clutch - REAR WHEEL TURNS
If you put the bike in neutral, does the rear tire spin freely?
If you pull in the clutch, does the rear tire spin freely?
Now that you have gotten the rear wheel to turn (i.e. item 5), what happens if you repeat step 4?
Shine a flashlight into the spark plug holes and look for rust, broken valves, etc.
You are correct that by removing the starter gears and pushing the start button, everything worked as it was supposed to. So everthing from the starter backwards is working properly (battery, relay, starter motor).
The tire does spin freely in neutral, and if you pull in the clutch.
I have tried to spin the rear tire by hand both before and after running beside it and droping the clutch. Both times I was able to practically lift the bike off its center stand and the wheel did not budge.
Unfortunately, the only flashlight I have was dead so I am picking up batteries for it today.
Any input?
Thanks,
Nick
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 09, 2008, 09:35:15 AM
You are correct that by removing the starter gears and pushing the start button, everything worked as it was supposed to. So everthing from the starter backwards is working properly (battery, relay, starter motor).
OK. Makes sense to me.
Quote
The tire does spin freely in neutral, and if you pull in the clutch.
OK. So this doesn't point to a transmission or clutch problem.
Quote
I have tried to spin the rear tire by hand both before and after running beside it and droping the clutch. Both times I was able to practically lift the bike off its center stand and the wheel did not budge.
It seems very strange that the wheel will spin with the bike moving, but not when parked. I guess things are not stuck, but just very rough. What is the oil level? (maybe the oil is too high and making it tough to move the pistons). I'm guessing that because you've taken off the side panels, the oil is drained?
Quote
Unfortunately, the only flashlight I have was dead so I am picking up batteries for it today.
OK. We'll have to wait for these results. That orange spark plug might point to rust in the cylinder (which could be why it is hard to move). Penetrating oil is a good idea. You probably want to use something more potent than WD-40; maybe Liquid Wrench or similar (PB Blaster in the USA?).
If the cylinder is rusted out, the cylinder will need to be honed and new piston rings will be required.
If you cant turn it by hand, cold and with the plugs out it is siezed ....period!....Get it out, get it apart, weigh it up and make a decision based on what you find. There is no easy solution to this and it will never be 100% servicable again. You dont know its previous history and for all thats known the PO could have run it low on oil and dried out a bearing!
Assuming a piston has been stuck in the cylinder due only to rust for the last 6 months and in the very unlikely chance that penetrating oil releases it the bore will be badlly pitted, and the rings stuck in their grooves. It will slap, burn oil, and compression will be down so low that it may cause mixture problems.
The oil level seemed to be fine before I drained it, but keep in mind I was unable to start it and get the bike warm before checking the level. But you are correct, the oil has been drained before removing the side cover. I will grab some PB Blaster on the way home along with batteries and post up pics or results.
Any other input?
Thanks,
Nick
Here is a tip for freeing off seized pistons, I have done this several times and so have many of my friends. Its never failed if its just shaZam!, age and light rust holding them but if a piston has picked-up on the cylinder wall and scoured the metal it wont work and you are in trouble.
1) remove the cylinder head and expose the piston-crowns.
2) put about a pint of clean engine oil in an old saucepan and boil it on a gas ring
3) pour the boiling oil onto the piston crowns and at the same time gently turn the crank-bolt backwards and forwards. The combination of hot oil and the heat contained in it will slowly break the bond bewteen the piston and the cylinder and you will feel it free off. Depending on the severity you may have to repeat the procedure a few time.
4) when its free drain the oil and replace it along with the filter.
As you can guess its a dangerous thing to do, the oil will spit when it lands on the piston. If you are going to do this wear some protective gear and be sensible about it.
I appreciate the suggestion, but this seems a litte outside my realm! I am currently without a garage, and mostly small handtools. I am working on the bike in the walkway in front of my apartment by my stairs! At this time removing the engine is out of the question without being able to throw something in it right away. What am I looking at for either a used engine from somewhere, or to rebuild this engine? Any ideas or suggestions?
Thank you,
Nick
There were a couple used engines on ebay.I'd say around $300 to $500.
What about a complete rebuild? Are parts even available to rebuild these engines? I know the local suzuki dealership didn't even have a battery that would fit!
Thanks again,
Nick
Anyone? I also looked in the spark plug holes, and although you can't see much it does seem like the inside is colored rust orange. Out of one of the spark plug holes it smells like straight fuel if that makes any difference? I was however unable to make it to the store to pick up some PB blaster, but from some of the previous comments I'm not sure it would make a difference anyway?
Thanks for your input,
Nick
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 09, 2008, 08:18:37 PM
Anyone? I also looked in the spark plug holes, and although you can't see much it does seem like the inside is colored rust orange. Out of one of the spark plug holes it smells like straight fuel if that makes any difference? I was however unable to make it to the store to pick up some PB blaster, but from some of the previous comments I'm not sure it would make a difference anyway?
Realistically, all signs point to serious damage that will need some form of rebuild. Since the damage is already done, it can't hurt to spray some penetrating oil and see what happens. You can probably get the thing to run, it will just never run well... and if it does run, there is a higher risk that something will break and cause internal damage that will be even more difficult (read: expensive) to fix later. :dunno_white:
ok well if engine seizure/failure is the case what are my options? What would be easier? The way I see it is:
1.) Search for a used engine, with an honest seller that will run and need work (CHEAPER)
2.) Track down all the parts needed to rebuild and fix my engine (more expensive, and are the parts all even available to order?)
Thanks,
Nick
If it's just stuck rings,you can do a re-ring.You'll need to get the engine to turn to do this.Pull the head,cylinders,and pistons.Send the cylinders to be cleaned and honed at a machine shop.Remove the rings from the pistons.Use a green scotch brite pad to clean the pistons.Install new rings,and install freshly honed cylinders.Use plenty of fresh oil.I use a 45 degree offset on my ring gaps, on most air cooled engines.If you need a ring compressor,Northern Tool had a cheap one.
My worry is the fact that other than oil pan and valve cover gaskets, or tapping an oil pan on my civic for turbo drain lines, I have never done internal work. Let alone been inside a suzuki engine. What would I be looking at (parts availability, tech knowledgable) if I outsourced the engine rebuild? Prices? Suggestions in greater Phoenix area?
Thanks,
Nick
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 10, 2008, 09:38:44 AM
My worry is the fact that other than oil pan and valve cover gaskets, or tapping an oil pan on my civic for turbo drain lines, I have never done internal work. Let alone been inside a suzuki engine. What would I be looking at (parts availability, tech knowledgable) if I outsourced the engine rebuild? Prices? Suggestions in greater Phoenix area?
Thanks,
Nick
I think you biggest problem would be a proper workspace. It will be difficult/impossible to rebuild the engine if you are limited to an outdoor walkway. You will need space to store the parts you remove and keep everything in order. Also, working outdoors will lead to problems with dirt blowing into the open engine. I've rebuilt a couple of scooter engines in my living room, but this can lead to relationship issues if you are not living alone! :laugh:
The GS engine itself is pretty simple and parts availability is good. Have both the Clymer and Haynes manuals on hand and read them over a few times before you get into the engine.
If you've concluded that the cylinder is rusted and the piston is stuck, the best thing to do is open up the engine and get a good look at the damage. This will determine how much effort will be required for repair.
Good luck, and don't forget to post some pictures!
I'm just a little nervous about opening it up myself. I'm likely to miss all kinds of small damaged parts that a more sophisticated mechanic might notice, or put something in wrong and ruin all that work! What would I be looking at pricewise, and is it possible to do it this way, if I remove the engine and leave it at a dealership to have it rebuilt?
If I did decide to rebuild it myself, what kind of price range am I looking at for parts for a COMPLETE rebuild? Is there a kit or will I need to tear apart the engine, find out what is good and can be reused then piece together everything else from there?
Thank you,
Nick
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 10, 2008, 12:24:54 PM
I'm just a little nervous about opening it up myself. I'm likely to miss all kinds of small damaged parts that a more sophisticated mechanic might notice, or put something in wrong and ruin all that work! What would I be looking at pricewise, and is it possible to do it this way, if I remove the engine and leave it at a dealership to have it rebuilt?
I am sure you can bring your engine to a dealership for a rebuild; however, I suspect this approach will cost you more than a decent used engine. It may be worthwhile to call a couple of local shops, describe the problem, and get a cost estimate from them directly.
Quote
If I did decide to rebuild it myself, what kind of price range am I looking at for parts for a COMPLETE rebuild? Is there a kit or will I need to tear apart the engine, find out what is good and can be reused then piece together everything else from there?
Sorry, I've never had to do a complete rebuild on a GS, so I can't help you with kits etc. Since a used engine in good condition costs $300 - $500, it should be less than that or else you're better off scrapping the engine.
It will be difficult to estimate the cost of a rebuild without knowing the extent of the damage. If it's just new piston rings and a cylinder honing that won't cost too much. If the valves are messed up, or the cylinder has any major scratches/scoring (which may have been caused by your efforts to free the piston), or the piston needs replacement, the repair cost will be higher.
Under the circumstances, I think your best bet is to take off the head and get some photos of the damage. This will help decide the best course of action. There is little benefit to guessing at the damage and the subsequent cost of repair. Do you have a repair manual? This will help you open the engine without much risk of damaging anything.
edit: if you change the title of this thread ("Engine Rebuild Advice Please" or similar), you may attract attention from other members who have rebuilt several GS engines but have not commented in this thread: Dgyver, Buddha, etc.
If you were close I would help you out.Cost varies from shop to shop.I would try calling a few shops.A used engine would probably be cheaper.Used engine is $300 to $500 and an engine rebuild is $700+.They'll more than likely want the engine in the bike so they can test the rebuild and do a run in.
You are dithering on this.........the only person who can say if you are capable of reliably repairing this engine yourself is.........yourself, no-one in here can say if you are up to it or not, we dont know you and positive comments and helpful advice wont change the fact. From your comments made so far and bearing in mind your apparant lack of knowledge, confidence, facilities, tools etc and with respect....... I would say you are not.
I am going to make another suggestion that so far has not been mentioned, it might be a non-starter but given the situation and your desire to keep costs to a minimum its probably the most realistic........ You start ringing round the breakers, you find one with a used but good condition engine and agree a price, you then ask them if they will fit it for you and take your old one in part-ex and then agree another price for the full job. Most of the breakers here in the UK do this and it costs a fraction of what a dealer (and their hourly-based rates) would charge. My local breaker charges £50 to remove a GS5 engine and replace it with a used one he has supplied, that about $100.............. its not worth getting your hands dirty.
Quote from: sledge on June 10, 2008, 01:23:24 PM
You are dithering on this.........the only person who can say if you are capable of reliably repairing this engine yourself is.........yourself, no-one in here can say if you are up to it or not, we dont know you and positive comments and helpful advice wont change the fact. From your comments made so far and bearing in mind your apparant lack of knowledge, confidence, facilities, tools etc and with respect....... I would say you are not.
I am going to make another suggestion that so far has not been mentioned, it might be a non-starter but given the situation and your desire to keep costs to a minimum its probably the most realistic........ You start ringing round the breakers, you find one with a used but good condition engine and agree a price, you then ask them if they will fit it for you and take your old one in part-ex and then agree another price for the full job. Most of the breakers here in the UK do this and it costs a fraction of what a dealer (and their hourly-based rates) would charge. My local breaker charges £50 to remove a GS5 engine and replace it with a used one he has supplied, that about $100.............. its not worth getting your hands dirty.
This is an idea but junk yards here rarely do that.Another problem in the US is the lack of motorcycle recyclers.The closest one to me is 350 miles or 4.5 hour ride.
utgunslinger13
I would try sledge's suggestion first.Not gonna loose anything by trying that.Ask around,try Yellow pages,and the internet to locate a recycler,salvage yard,or used parts seller.
Well right now I have sprayed some PB Blaster down the spark plug holes and am going to let it sit overnight. Before spraying it in, I tested again everything as before. So I set it on its center stand, removed the spark plugs...
In neutral that rear tire spins freely.
In any gear with the clutch pulled the rear tire spins freely.
In any gear the tire will not spin more than a couple inches (when the chain slack is taken up), and no matter how hard I tug I could not get the tire to spin.
In 6th gear I took off at a dead run and dropped the clutch. The tire rolled like it was turning the engine over, until the speed dropped enough and locked the tire.
So other than a catastrophic failure internally I am at a loss as to why it will turn over pushing but at no other time.
I have verified that the battery, starter relay, and starter motor are all working properly, and that the rotor and stator are in great condition. However, in nuetral I was unable to turn the rotor using a socket on the center bolt, nor was I able to turn the ignitor on the other side of the engine at all!
I think the only other option I have is to actually pull the motor and tear it down. Any other options short of engine removal? If I were to remove the head, is it possible to do it with the rest of the engine still in the frame?
Thank you,
Nick
I recently had a seized engine on my '04 with only 4500 miles on it. I had to take it to a local shop because I struck out on everyone's suggestions, and I'm quite a newbee when it comes to motorcyles.
Your problem sounds very similar to the problem I was having.
My exhaust valve seat broke into a few pieces and one of the pieces lodged my exhaust valve open to where the piston locked up into it.
What kind of prices/turn around time were you looking at?
I found a local engine for sell on ebay for 300 dollars. Now I know the rules of ebay say you can't go around ebay, but it might save on shipping! I have never bought anything this large of ebay, and have no clue what to look for, ask, etc, before laying down another 300 for an engine.
Thanks,
Nick
***Edit***
Engine is from a 2004, a few parts (ignitor is all I could tell of hand, maybe clutch side engine cover) might have been taken from it. Are there going to be any parts that won't transfer from my 1990 onto the 2004?
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 10, 2008, 08:47:22 PM
I found a local engine for sell on ebay for 300 dollars. Now I know the rules of ebay say you can't go around ebay, but it might save on shipping! I have never bought anything this large of ebay, and have no clue what to look for, ask, etc, before laying down another 300 for an engine.
Thanks,
Nick
Sometimes I see adds that say, " I have this for sale locally and reserve the right to end this auction early." I'd try and set up a meeting to go see it in person.
I emailed him, but his ad didn't mention anything about selling locally. We will see! Any input on parts that won't match between a 2004 engine and 1990 engine/bike? Any wiring issues?
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 10, 2008, 09:24:11 PM
I emailed him, but his ad didn't mention anything about selling locally. We will see! Any input on parts that won't match between a 2004 engine and 1990 engine/bike? Any wiring issues?
You will need to transfer your engine electrics and carbs over to the 04 engine.You'll also need the oil cooler,lines and mounting hardware.Remember the 02+ F models have an oil cooler.Helps the engine last longer.
You guys think the electronic BS they slapped on a 70's motor is what is killing these in large numbers ??? Like the 4 prong advancer that does this and that and julienne fries ...
Cool.
Buddha.
What are you babbling about? :cookoo:
Are you drinking skunk beer again? :cheers:
The 04 and newer gs has a lot of electronic crap ... an advancer that has many prongs that all do some kinda feedback, maybe it turns it too lean and cooks the motors up.
Cool.
Buddha.
So your saying to not go for this motor? I'm confused?
They're saying the 2004 engine will work, provided you transfer over the electrical insides from the broken engine.
As ben2go also mentioned, the 2004 engine design includes an oil cooler. The oil cooler is not present on your old engine; therefore, you will have to make sure you get the oil cooler, lines, and mounting hardware included with the new engine (otherwise you will have to go through the hassle of locating these parts separately).
On a separate side note, Buddha was hypothesizing that the redesigned electrics for the 2002+ engines may be contributing to the many recent engine failures reported. This is merely a guess and should not deter you from buying the engine. As stated, you need to use your original electrics anyways.
Hope this helps! :)
Yes it does! Thank you very much! The only problem I'm running into is he said no local pickups when I asked if we could meet up and purchase some other parts off the MC. I'll be upset if he wants to ship the engine when I could drive to his place in 20 minutes!
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 11, 2008, 11:19:39 AM
Yes it does! Thank you very much! The only problem I'm running into is he said no local pickups when I asked if we could meet up and purchase some other parts off the MC. I'll be upset if he wants to ship the engine when I could drive to his place in 20 minutes!
Honestly, it sounds like he is hiding something.Why else would he go thru the truoble of shipping something across town.Could be a stolen bike.You could ask him to meet you with the motor and parts you need.
Well, I have recently moved from OH to AZ and I realized that my address on Ebay still showed I was located in OH, so I wonder if that has something to do with it. The listing shows that he has an "abandoned title" because his roommate left the country, but I have never heard of any such thing. I just don't understand his thought process if he wont sell it locally so he didn't have to ship it? I really need an engine but I'm nervous of getting scammed!
Nick
Abandon titles are usually giving after a vehicle has been unregistered and uninsured for over 5 years.Unless you can prove that the owner left the bike without it.Different states have different laws on this.Usually it's just a trip to the DMV to get the info on abandoned vehicles.
I would still be very cautious on this.
I am a little weary, its just almost to good to be true. I couldn't find any other engines on Ebay, and this one is 20 minutes from my location! I am going to get back in contact with him and see if we can't work something out.
Have you tried Midcity in Pheonix (623) 931-0844,or Bob's (602) 243-4241?
Liquidation Center deals in salvage bikes. (602) 484-0133
Wow, I must be an idiot because I looked on google and I could only find auto recyclers! What did you search for or did you already know about these guys? I am going to call today to see what they have!
Thank you so much!
Nick
The response I got from the seller when I asked him about purchasing it local was the following. Tell me if I'm misunderstanding but this doesn't sound right?!
"I would sell you the entire bike at this point...1300. I honestly don't want you to bid on the motor, shipping things out for me is a tax write off so I would be losing as far as this deal is concerned. The tax benefits for me are very important."
This just doesn't seem right to me?!
Yea Something doesn't seem right there.
The phone numbers I posted I got off Yahoo Yellow Pages.I searched Phoenix,AZ and used these terms,motorcycle parts used,motorcycle used parts,motorcycle salvage,salvage motorcycle.
perfect, thanks! I will call them on my lunch in an hour.
You're welcome.Hope they have an engine.
One didn't answer, so I left a message.
One wasn't sure if they did, I would have to come in and look.
One didn't deal with parts!
Stricking out :-(
So I finally got the engine out of the bike. That wasn't the easiest thing to do by myself, especially in my "garage" area!
My "Garage"
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d833b3127ccec40db5b22c3600000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
My parts storage area:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d833b3127ccec40dcd482cf000000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
My naked bike!
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d833b3127ccec40d9cf86cf000000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
The engine!
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d833b3127ccec40de1abad3500000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Hopefully I can start digging into it this weekend to see if I can find what might have locked it up. I've started a WTB thread, so if anyone is reading this and knows of an engine in the Phoenix AZ area please let me know! And if you have any suggestions on tearing this down, I'm all ears!
Thanks!
Nick
Thanks for the follow up and the pictures!
Here's to good news when you crack it open :cheers:
I'm hoping for something simple so you can go riding.
I did notice one thing that was broken while taking the motor out, but I think this might be an after effect of the seizure. When I un hooked the speedo cable, a small piece fell out that I think is the tip that should be hooked into the wire. I know thats a horrible description but my camera batteries died while I was taking the pics and I didn't feel like waiting for it to charge before I went to bed. Removing an engine by yourself is tiring work!
If someone has a picture of the speedo cable where it hooks into the engine they could post I would appreciate it.
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 13, 2008, 07:58:44 AM
I did notice one thing that was broken while taking the motor out, but I think this might be an after effect of the seizure. When I un hooked the speedo cable, a small piece fell out that I think is the tip that should be hooked into the wire. I know thats a horrible description but my camera batteries died while I was taking the pics and I didn't feel like waiting for it to charge before I went to bed. Removing an engine by yourself is tiring work!
If someone has a picture of the speedo cable where it hooks into the engine they could post I would appreciate it.
Speedo is connected to the front wheel.The tach cable is hooked up to the top of the head on the right side.If some thing breaks in there it could possibly lock up the tach drive on the cam.That would keep the engine from turning.It's rare for something to fail in that area.
okay, well the piece that broke is between the part that screws into the engine and the cable. I think it used to be the tip of the internal part that spins inside the cable portion. I'll take a pic and send it later tonight.
It could be the tip of the wire cable.
That would be an accurate description if I were to guess. It is a "male" portion that sticks out of the end of the cable.
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 13, 2008, 04:18:44 PM
That would be an accurate description if I were to guess. It is a "male" portion that sticks out of the end of the cable.
Have you tried turning the engine since removing it.
yeah I tried to turn it over again and it won't budge an inch. I planned on getting into it tonight but my gf and I went out to dinner and i had a couple to many (hahah yeah right) beers so I'll probably wait till tomorrow to tear it down. Although, here is a picture of the broken piece from the tach.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d832b3127ccec40e7900548200000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 10, 2008, 09:38:44 AM
My worry is the fact that other than oil pan and valve cover gaskets, or tapping an oil pan on my civic for turbo drain lines, I have never done internal work. Let alone been inside a suzuki engine. What would I be looking at (parts availability, tech knowledgable) if I outsourced the engine rebuild? Prices? Suggestions in greater Phoenix area?
Thanks,
Nick
take it up to MMI on deer valley rd. ( mmi= motorcycle mechanics institute) take 17 north, get off at deer valley, turn left, they may be able to do it, as a training excercise for students, ie teacher do, students watch. opr teh same with teh engine swap
I drive by MMI on my way to and from work every day! I wasn't sure if they would take things like that or if I should trust it to being rebuilt there.
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 13, 2008, 09:36:19 PM
I drive by MMI on my way to and from work every day! I wasn't sure if they would take things like that or if I should trust it to being rebuilt there.
Yea! I didn't realize you guys had an MMI.They will usually take in small projects.They may need the complete bike so they can run the engine after the build.Never hurts to stop and ask.
Quote from: ben2go on June 13, 2008, 10:52:55 PM
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 13, 2008, 09:36:19 PM
I drive by MMI on my way to and from work every day! I wasn't sure if they would take things like that or if I should trust it to being rebuilt there.
Yea! I didn't realize you guys had an MMI.They will usually take in small projects.They may need the complete bike so they can run the engine after the build.Never hurts to stop and ask.
former student AND grad here :icon_twisted: , i lived at that apt complex across the street from them
I see guys/gals walking accross the street from that complex in their uniforms every morning! How likely would they be to take on the project? Would it cost me anything? How would I go about it?
Also, I'm stuck as to how to get the right side cover off? I have removed everything and the damn cover won't budge?! Is there some trick?
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec408fc7a9e8700000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 14, 2008, 09:44:09 AM
I see guys/gals walking accross the street from that complex in their uniforms every morning! How likely would they be to take on the project? Would it cost me anything? How would I go about it?
Also, I'm stuck as to how to get the right side cover off? I have removed everything and the damn cover won't budge?! Is there some trick?
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec408fc7a9e8700000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Don't pry the case at the seam,it will mess up the sealing surface.There are 2 tabs that stick off the cover.1 can be seen in the pic.It's at the back of the cover just below center.The other one should be at the front.I place a screw driver on the tabs and gently tap the screw driver with a hammer.When You feel it loosening up be prepared to catch it.Here's a tip for reassembly.After you scrape the old gasket from the cover,clean it very well,wipe it completely dry.The use a little bearing grease and coat the inside of the seal where the crankshaft seals.This will keep the dry seal from sticking to the crankshaft snout and getting damaged on start up.
Thank you! I figured it was something as simple as that and I wondered what those tabs were for! Got it off and clutch looks good, so I slid out the plates and dropped it into gear. After I dropped it into gear I rotated the inside portion of the clutch seen here:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec4089741de1100000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
and it in turn rotated the output shaft where the sproket should go, seen here:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec408b0f71f1c00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
So I'm thinking this eliminates something in the transmission being stuck and points towards the engine itself. Any input or thoughts?
i'm a little unsure how to move forward from here as I'm to impatient to wait for my manual to arrive in the mail to start tearing the engine apart. What is the best way to start looking into the engine?
Thanks!
Nick
So I put all the side covers back on and I'm going to start tearing out the head. I haven't done much work internally with engines, I'm more of a bolt-on or turbocharging kind of guy (i've built two turbocharged civics and torn apart countless turbocharged mistubishi eclipse's) but with the engine seized I'm not really worried about breaking anything! But at this point I'm looking for any tips or things to check!
I just ordered my manual through the link to amazon, so I can quit using the excuse I don't have a manual!
But here are some more pics:
Front Cam:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec408b9675f1000000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Rear Cam:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec409123e3fc800000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Top View of Cams:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec40823b5debf00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Cams Removed:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec40959977fdc00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
And finally.........BATTLE WOUNDS!
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec4095f2a7f6200000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
It was so very hard not to give the finger to the camera, but alas, maturity prevails.
Nick
The tabs on the clutch basket.I didn't have those on mine.Once you remove the head post a pic of the inside of the cylinders before you pull it from the case.
Here is a picture of the cylinder walls. Remeber that I sprayed PB Blaster in the spark plug holes hoping that something was just rusted to the walls and it would help free it up. One cylinder still has liquid in it, the other does not!
Left Cylinder (chain side)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec40934693f8c00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec40845b4de8d00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec4098297be1900000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Right Cylinder (non-chain side)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec409f787feab00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec408c20d9eef00000035110CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Anybody got some suggestions?
Thanks,
Nick
Yech... that's brutal :cry:
edit:
What did the inside of the head look like? You've come this far, keep going! :thumb: :cheers:
By the way, thanks for the detailed photo record of your tear-down!
Here is the bottom half of the head:
View of the entine head (exhaust side facing down):
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec4091460bea500000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Right side (non-chain side)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec40866d39e6300000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Left Side (chain side)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec4084deb5fe600000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
what is the best procedure to get the cylinder walls out? I don't have a manual yet and I've just been winging it and taking pictures as I go! Anyone have any ideas what would cause this kind of nasty insides?
Thanks,
Nick
Quote from: utgunslinger13 link=topic=41982.msg473941#msg473941
what is the best procedure to get the cylinder walls out? I don't have a manual yet and I've just been winging it and taking pictures as I go!
Normally you just lift the block. In your case, because of the rust build up, you probably want to clean up the rust flakes as best to can prior to lifting the block. I wouldn't scrape at it, just try to remove the loose flakes that will make a mess later.
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/gs_beRto/blockRemoval.gif)
When you get the cylinder block off, stuff some rags around the connecting rods to prevent pieces from falling into the lower end.
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/gs_beRto/pistonpin.gif)
Quote
Anyone have any ideas what would cause this kind of nasty insides?
I guess it had water sitting in the engine for years. Maybe it was stored outside, uncovered, and without sparkplugs?
Dude, I can not get this thing to budge! Unfortunately I don't have a rubber mallet so I tried to pry with a breaker bar beteween the bottom fin and the case and broke a portion of the fin off! :mad: :mad: Any suggestions on getting it to pop free? I tried to spray some PB Blaster where the cylinders meet the case but I don't think that'll help.
Here is the new "Engine Stand" I bought:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec408a2b81f5a00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Here is the part of the fin I broke off:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec40839235f1400000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
I guess if needed I will go buy a rubber mallet, but any suggestions? I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE things being stuck!
That bike has sat in the rain,probably with the plugs out or the carbs open to the air.
I had that in my GR last year ... tap the pistons down with a small wooden dowel, like the handle of a mallet. That will usually get it moving and get it freed up. BTW you prolly can hone it and hand gap 1/2 over pistons and rings and get it nice and new ...
The head is nearly in great shape. Clean everything, new seals and new 3 angle job and fit back on. most car engine shops will do it, if you can give them instructions. I got one shop that did my GR, my savage etc ... just walk in there with a box of donuts and the next 3-4 hours they do what you say ... :thumb:
Cool.
Buddha.
I got the cylinder freed from the case but can't seem to get it to move 1/8 of an inch up. What is the easiest way if the pistons are rusted to the wall to break them free?
Soaking with PB Blaster and time.Try to move it a few times a day and keep it lubed.
It should be pulled straight up, you also can do the PB blaster or other penetratant.
Cool.
Buddha.
Well I am notorious for starting something and not stopping till its on my terms and not that something is stuck! So I kept prying and pulling, and using a breaker bar and hammer and POP! The cylinder wall came off! The left piston (chain side), the one that was ugly orange colored with the nasty spark plug was rusted to the side! I tugged on the chain and the crank rotated!
So now I need to find some place to take the cylinder walls and have them honed/straightened. I have never done anything like this so I have no clue where to go or how to find a good shop! Any suggestions?
And of course, I wouldn't leave you without pics!
Ther are FREE!!!!!! :cheers:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec4089fb7dee300000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
This is the chain side piston, it was rusted to the wall:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec40947967fd200000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec4094c413f9800000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
This is the chain side cylinder wall:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec409b7107f2c00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
:mad: :mad:
This is the right side piston, it was not rusted:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec409bee43f4400000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec4094f1ffe6f00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
This is the right side cylinder, it was not rusted:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec409d71dfe2100000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Top View, definetly needs cleaned up!
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec40990753fc200000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
You gotta love the work space!
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec4089f065f6200000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Here is an idea. http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=14401.0
I recently checked and the pistons are still available.
Congrats! :cheers: I do love the ghetto workspace... especially the TV where the beer fridge should be :laugh:
Search the yellow pages for a local machine shop; cylinder honing is pretty standard. The rust looks bad enough that they may have to bore the cylinders, which would require new (oversized) pistons. Your pistons look to be in rough shape, so that's not such a bad thing!
At a minimum, you will need to replace the wrist pins (15), circlips (16), oversized piston & piston rings (17?), etc.
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/gs_beRto/crankshaft.gif)
I think #17 is an 0.5 oversized piston and ring set, but you will have to check with the dealer (and check with your machinist to see if this will work). I think you're supposed to buy the pistons and bring them to the machinist so that he can custom bore the cylinders to match.
Get it all priced out and then decide if its worthwhile, compared to the cost of a replacement engine. Based on Mr. Cycles for reference, it looks like approx $160 + taxes + machine work
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/gs_beRto/pistonCosts.gif)
This all assumes that the rest of the engine is not damaged (crankshaft bearings, etc). Given the condition of the cylinders, you may need to have a closer look? :dunno_white: I don't have enough experience with an engine in this condition to guess at what the rest of the insides would look like. Maybe Buddha can give you a good guess based on the rusted engine he described in his post?
Thanks again for this inside look at the dismantle. :icon_mrgreen:
I appreciate the options guys, I would prefer to stick with the closest to stock option so I think the 0.5 oversized pistons would be the best bet. So should I take it to a machinst and get it checked before I order the oversized pistons or should I just get the oversized pistons and take everything to the machinist?
As for anything lower, I do not have any experience so how will I know if anything else needs replaced? I think this was a case of the engine sitting for an extended period of time and the piston just rusting to the wall. Perhaps Buddha can enlighten me?
:thumb: no problem, I like to take pictures so what better way than to wrench and shoot pics! :thumb:
Thanks for the continued input guys!
So I went back out for a little more work after dinner, and I decided to see what I could find out about the bottom end. So I started to spin the crank by any means (chain and ignitor bolt) and it spun freely and beautifully. I don't want to have to dig in any deeper if its not necessary? Any inputs? I really need some knowledge dropped here by someone with more experience internally!
I also cleaned up the pistons a little bit just check for any cracks etc. and man they look good now! I think I'm going to drop these off with the machinist and see if he can hone the cylinders to match the stock pistons!
And here is the last pic for tonight:
Cleaned up pistons:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d835b3127ccec4095a0dbeef00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 14, 2008, 10:51:23 PM
So I went back out for a little more work after dinner, and I decided to see what I could find out about the bottom end. So I started to spin the crank by any means (chain and ignitor bolt) and it spun freely and beautifully. I don't want to have to dig in any deeper if its not necessary? Any inputs? I really need some knowledge dropped here by someone with more experience internally!
Sounds promising. How much of the bottom end can you see with an inspection light? Any signs of rust down there? My main concern would be the bearings so hopefully someone can fill in details on the likelihood of damage.
I don't know if the bearings would have been fully submerged in oil and therefore protected from water damage. What was the consistency of the oil you removed? Did it look like water had seeped into the oil? I guess if the bearings were rusted it would be obvious when you spin the crank.
Quote
I also cleaned up the pistons a little bit just check for any cracks etc. and man they look good now! I think I'm going to drop these off with the machinist and see if he can hone the cylinders to match the stock pistons!
The pistons did clean up pretty well. Unfortunately, considering the rust damage, I think it's unlikely that the machinist will be able to preserve the original diameter of the cylinders. You're right though, the best thing to do is ask.
Quote from: sledge on June 09, 2008, 10:33:20 AM
If you cant turn it by hand, cold and with the plugs out it is siezed ....period!....Get it out, get it apart, weigh it up and make a decision based on what you find.
Next step is to take the cylinder block to a local engine reconditioning company. General machine shops dont usually have the equipment or interest to handle this sort of job. The amount of damge shown in the pics wont hone out, it needs to be rebored. Dont order any oversize pistons until you have spoke the reconditioners, the size of piston you need will depend on the amount of metal that needs to be removed to restore the concentricty and surface finish of the cylinder wall and that is an unkown quantity as yet. Dont overlook the fact that a 0.5mm oversize piston only needs 0.25mm removing from the wall so if the damage runs deeper than 0.25mm you will have to go up the next oversize piston...........The recon` company will advise you and may even supply the correct pistons as part of the job.
Dont forget to order a top-end gasket set and you are going to need a torque wrench.
Sledge, what are your thoughts on the bottom end? Given what you've seen so far, do you think it is likely the rest of the engine would be in good shape?
Hard to say, a slight amount of water could have seeped past the rings and found it way into the cases but if there was plenty of oil in there it would be insignificant. I would be prepared to take a chance on the bottom end.....with fresh oil and filter and another change in say 500 miles to get any foreign bits out. The damage has been caused while the bike stood, but the question remains, why was it stood?
Take off the pan and see what the thing looks like. Water in the CC can cause rust yes, however if the motor was not run pumping the water with pressure into the bearings, you wont have rust there. My thought is to clean the lower 1/2 without the pan (engine shops have hotsy - a brand name of hot solvent spray cleaning machine) and then tooth brush the surfaces with rust if any ... BTW they clean the things with water ... pressure washer.
Take off all the rest, starter, alternator, ignition plate, all of it ...
Top end - you are definetly looking at a bore ... my GR wasn't 1/2 as bad and I still ended with it at the clearance limit, 24 thou on 1 and 12 thou on the other.
Cool.
Buddha.
Well when I drained the oil to start tearing things apart the oil looked brand new, like the seller had changed it recently. So unfortunately I won't be able to tell from that. With and inspection light am can see many things but nothing seem to have rusted below the piston. As for the machinist, and tolerance limits, can anybody post the limits these cylinders can be overbored? I'm just wondering if it might be cheaper to buy a new cylinder wall and reuse the stock pistons instead of buying over sized pistons to match the bore?
I think I'm going to take my chances with the bottom end mainly because the lack of engine stand to be able to work on both the top and bottom end of the engine at the same time, and because judging by sight and sound it seems to be okay. I appreciate all your comments and input and I will make sure to keep everyone up-to-date with the progress. Now I need to do some research as to where I can get this thing worked on. I wonder if the MMI does this kind of work?
Thanks for all your input guys!
Nick
really dont NEED a stand, can always use a table of some sort
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 15, 2008, 09:24:29 AM
can anybody post the limits these cylinders can be overbored? I'm just wondering if it might be cheaper to buy a new cylinder wall and reuse the stock pistons instead of buying over sized pistons to match the bore?
Manufacturing tolerances Service limits (taken from factory service manual and quoted in mm)
Piston/cylinder clearance 0.05-0.06. Service limit 0.120
Cylinder bore 74.00-74.015. Service limit 74.08
Piston diam` 73.945-73.960. Service limit 73.88 (measure at a point 15mm above the skirt end)
Cylinder distortion 0.10
Ask if you need dims relating to rings etc
PS Mixing and matching pistons and cylinders is not good practice, particularly when its a combination of old and new parts.
OK, I've checked a couple places locally I'm just not sure how to decide between places. I might just wait till my clymers manual comes in the mail and take the manual in with the cylinder to have it checked.
I'm a little confused as to how I would sit the engine on a table and still take the bottom end off?
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 15, 2008, 01:16:49 PM
OK, I've checked a couple places locally I'm just not sure how to decide between places. I might just wait till my clymers manual comes in the mail and take the manual in with the cylinder to have it checked.
I'm a little confused as to how I would sit the engine on a table and still take the bottom end off?
Cylinder head-studs would have to come out first, then you could knock up a rough cradle/support arrangement out of some 2x4 offcuts.
Not really worth it IMO, but I'm getting antsy not working on anything waiting to find a machine shop so its not out of the question that I dig in deeper! If I do, I'll make sure to post pictures.
You could get a used set of cylinders and pistons here or ebay.Have the cylinders honed, install new piston rings,pins and clips.I posted a link a page or 2 back about over boring to a 541cc.
Here's da link just incase you missed it. http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=14401.0
yeah I seen the link but I would like to keep it as stock as possible. What would be my best option? Have my current (and extremely torn up) cylinders overbored with oversized pistons, or to buy a new set of cylinder and pistons? A couple posts before this someone mentioned not a good idea to mix and match new and used parts, would it be a bad idea just to pick up a new cylinder and reuse the current pistons? I am interested in getting this done right and I do have 600 dollars set aside to get this running right now, so buying all new is not that big of a deal to me, but if I could do it for cheaper then I would obviously chose that option!
So what would be my best option?
1.) Keep my stock cylinders and overbore them for oversized pistons
2.) Purchase a used cylinder and have it honed to fit my old pistons
3.) Spend the real money and buy new cylinder and new pistons
I have no clue on prices, so any ideas?
Thanks,
Nick
Honing is around $30 and an over bore with a finish hone is around $90 to $120.Depends on the shop.If you're thinking of trying a hone and rering,I'd get new pistons.It'd just be to much trouble to clean the old ones up.
I'd do used cylinders with the pistons that came from them.I'd hone the cylinders and install new rings.
Now if thats the case, where would I pick up a set of pistons and cylinders? You don't happen to have a good one lying around do you?
Thanks,
Nick
I don't but there was a reputable guy on ebay selling everything.I believe the cylinders were $25 and pistons were $15 each.
DAMN! :o Links? Any idea of his name? I've searched for gs500 on ebay but I didn't come across any pistons/cylinders?! :mad:
Thanks,
Nick
This is not the guy I was originally speaking of his auction ended saturday night.This is what I found searching for gs500,gs500e, and gs500f.
Cylinders.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/suzuki-89-00-gs500-gs-500-cylinders-cylinder-gs500e_W0QQitemZ130220218544QQihZ003QQcategoryZ10066QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
Cylinders with pistons.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/suzuki-91-gs500-gs-500-cylinders-and-pistons-cylinder_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10066QQihZ002QQitemZ120177488849QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
You can mix and match new and old and random sheite ... just make them all right for where you are using them. here is the most important thing after you do that. the engine needs a full and complete break in type useage. 2K miles ... the problem usually comes in cos racers mix and match stuff all the time, night before a race, thrashing to get it back together, borrowing stuff from anyone anything that will fit. Then they just run the thing in the race. Then they say Ohhhh mix and match is bad. I've seen people swap cam towers and race it right after and gall and tear up the cam bearing. These parts all wear together, you are supposed to wear them in each time you disturb them.
Cool.
Buddha.
Well I emailed both of those selling asking for pics inside the cylinder walls, I want to make sure they are in good condition before I buy another POS cylinder!
Not the best pictures in the world, but they seem to look good to me. Any opinions?
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d837b3127ccec4350b494e4c00000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8d837b3127ccec434c4202e9600000026100CaOW7Vs0cMQe3nw8)
Can you feel any deep scratches with a finger nail?If not they should be good for honing.The pistons maybe salvageable.Then you'll only need gaskets and rings.
Those were pictures from the seller, I haven't bid on the cylinders or pistons.
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 16, 2008, 07:54:48 PM
Those were pictures from the seller, I haven't bid on the cylinders or pistons.
Ahh.I thought that was your cylinders cleaned up.
Those appear to be in good shape.Honing will take any light surface damage off.
yo, i may have a motor for you ut
ive got a spare motor here, i got from the guy on the forum a few months ago, a rolling project, i have to test it out anyhow, so ill hook all my stuff up to it SOON and see how well it runs, and i just got a line on a project bike and another motor thats said to run. pm me your number well talk. anyone else looking for a motor hit me up i may just part some projects since there is so much demand.
Quote from: ben2go on June 16, 2008, 11:30:39 PM
Ahh.I thought that was your cylinders cleaned up.
Those appear to be in good shape.Honing will take any light surface damage off.
Thats what I thought but figured I would get some other oppinions since everyone has been so helpful so far!
Quote from: cd on June 17, 2008, 12:54:03 AM
yo, i may have a motor for you ut
ive got a spare motor here, i got from the guy on the forum a few months ago, a rolling project, i have to test it out anyhow, so ill hook all my stuff up to it SOON and see how well it runs, and i just got a line on a project bike and another motor thats said to run. pm me your number well talk. anyone else looking for a motor hit me up i may just part some projects since there is so much demand.
I might not need that motor just yet, let me talk with the machine shop I've been speaking with and see what they say about my cylinders! I am trying to find time to drop it off with the machinist before work this week but hasn't happened yet! If it comes down to it, I would love the new engine but not yet!
Thank you!
First of all, very nice work so far on the teardown and diagnosis. If I were you I would wait until your service manual comes and use the specs and testing procedures to check every tolerance on both the top and bottom end. You can grab a cheap digital caliper set for <$20 to take your measurements.
IMO, that cylinder is scrap. I agree that replacing it with a good used piece is your best bet. The one you posted above looks very nice. Your cylinder head looks fine, just be sure to de-carbonize the combustion chamber as best you can. You may be able to get away with re-using those pistons; it depends on how they measure out compared to the spec. Examine them very, very closely for any signs of pitting or gouging. If they're not perfectly smooth they're trash.
You'll need new rings, wrist pins and circlips for sure. That's about $100 total I believe. You'll also want to hone the new cylinder before re-installing it. You can borrow the hone from AutoZone, PepBoys, etc. Bring along your electric drill and you can do it right there in the parking lot.
Be very, very careful when re-installing the cams and go ahead and check your valve lash while you're in there. Check, double check, and triple check to make sure the timing is set correctly or you'll have bigger problems to deal with. The manual will walk you through this.
Finally, you'll need a helper to get the engine back into the frame. It was the hardest part of the job for me.
Thanks for the comments and input! I have found a machinst that is going to look at my current cylinders to see how far out of specs we are looking. It looks like I'm going to spend about the same money if I buy cylinders with a rehone and pistons, as I would for an overbore and oversized pistons so I'm going to see if he thinks my cylinder is worth saving.
If the machinst feels it can be saved with a .5 overbore, then I'm going with oversized pistons and the overbore. But if he feels that he can't save it with an overbore I'm going to pick up those cylinders off ebay and rehone with my stock pistons. I just can't do anything till I can find some time to drop it off at the machine shop and have him work on it.
Let me know if you agree with my thinking here or if I'm missing something completely.
Thanks,
Nick
I couldnt agree with your decision more :thumb: All the tolerances and service limits are quoted in the Factory service manual, I have posted what I think are the relevent ones further back but ask if you need any others and I will look them up for you..........dont forget the gasket set ;)
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 17, 2008, 12:29:35 PM
Thanks for the comments and input! I have found a machinst that is going to look at my current cylinders to see how far out of specs we are looking. It looks like I'm going to spend about the same money if I buy cylinders with a rehone and pistons, as I would for an overbore and oversized pistons so I'm going to see if he thinks my cylinder is worth saving.
If the machinst feels it can be saved with a .5 overbore, then I'm going with oversized pistons and the overbore. But if he feels that he can't save it with an overbore I'm going to pick up those cylinders off ebay and rehone with my stock pistons. I just can't do anything till I can find some time to drop it off at the machine shop and have him work on it.
Let me know if you agree with my thinking here or if I'm missing something completely.
Thanks,
Nick
Now get those cylinders to the shop already... we want to know how this story ends!
I have purchased the manual from the link to amazon on the homepage, and I would like to wait till thats delivered before I drop the cylinders off at the shop so he has the manual with him for specs. However, amazon said I won't get it till the 23rd!!!!! I'm not sure if I can wait that long, and I might just ask for a big favor and have someone scan or type up everything he might need for specs so I can drop them off tomorrow morning!
I picked up a complete gasket set from ebay along with a new tachometer cable. I have to keep myself focused on the engine for now so I'm not jumping all around with different parts/projects on the bike, there is so much I want to start working on! But I just keep telling myself, engine first. Get it running, then worry about everything else.
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 17, 2008, 12:29:35 PM
Thanks for the comments and input! I have found a machinst that is going to look at my current cylinders to see how far out of specs we are looking. It looks like I'm going to spend about the same money if I buy cylinders with a rehone and pistons, as I would for an overbore and oversized pistons so I'm going to see if he thinks my cylinder is worth saving.
If the machinst feels it can be saved with a .5 overbore, then I'm going with oversized pistons and the overbore. But if he feels that he can't save it with an overbore I'm going to pick up those cylinders off ebay and rehone with my stock pistons. I just can't do anything till I can find some time to drop it off at the machine shop and have him work on it.
Let me know if you agree with my thinking here or if I'm missing something completely.
Thanks,
Nick
Good plan of attack.I think you will have a long lasting engine this way.
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 17, 2008, 03:52:17 PM
I might just ask for a big favor and have someone scan or type up everything he might need for specs so I can drop them off tomorrow morning!
Well, alright... but only if it will get you to the rebuild faster:
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/gs_beRto/1990cylinderspecs.gif)
Quote
But I just keep telling myself, engine first. Get it running, then worry about everything else.
Agreed! :laugh:
Reading that makes me realize I will never know enough about engines, this thing is like giberish to me! But I'm printing it out, and taking everything to him tomorrow morning! He agreed to inspect it for free too!
:2guns: hey my engine just went too. this would be the second motor now .. siezed at the light heard slapping i think but the pistons look to be in the right spots .and the valves do too . oboy i guess i have to dig in to it... :dunno_white:
Good Luck! Its a fun job if you have the room/tools/time, which I have none! I'm not a genious in any stretch of the imagination but if you have any questions feel free to ask and I'll see if I can help!
Thanks,
Nick
For people that are rebuilding your engins you might want to consider taking an auto shop class at your local high / tech school and that could be your project since they both are 4 stroke engins. -- best of luck JIM :)
I guess I've had a little practice. I worked at a shop for 3 years in highschool, and I've built or help build countless turbo projects on cars. But honestly, with a little patience and ALOT OF HELP FROM GSTWINS.COM you can learn to do anything.
Nick
I was an auto mechanic for years and had to relearn every thing to work on MC's.They're a bit more complicated and the carbs are very different.
Yeah, I know that the carbs are going to be a complete different story. Once I get the engine back together, which will be a learning experience as is, I'm a little nervous to learn the carbs. But its not going to stop there. I want to repaint the frame, so I need to learn the disassemble the forks and the rear tire mount and swing arm. At least by that time I'll have my manual and should ***HOPEFULLY*** be clear how to procede.
BTW Spell check gave an error, so I apologize if there are some bad spelling mistakes!
I dropped the cylinders off at the machine shop this morning, and he said it didn't look like a hone would clean up the damage. He is going to try and then call me later today. He said he also might have a line on oversized pistons for cheaper than the Suzuki parts. So if things go well I should be able to get it back within a week!
I'm just curious as to how the reassmbly will go with the rods still attached to the crank? Any time I've seen an engine reassmbled, the pistons and rods are put into the cylinders then tightened on the crank? Any suggestions?
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 18, 2008, 10:20:37 AM
I dropped the cylinders off at the machine shop this morning, and he said it didn't look like a hone would clean up the damage. He is going to try and then call me later today. He said he also might have a line on oversized pistons for cheaper than the Suzuki parts. So if things go well I should be able to get it back within a week!
I don't think anyone thought honing would be enough... given the apparent extent of damage, the question was whether-or-not boring would be sufficient! :laugh: Hopefully the oversized piston option will work out for you. :thumb:
Quote
I'm just curious as to how the reassmbly will go with the rods still attached to the crank? Any time I've seen an engine reassmbled, the pistons and rods are put into the cylinders then tightened on the crank? Any suggestions?
I don't think you'll have any problems here. I've rebuilt a few snowmobiles and scooters and I've always just compressed the piston rings and then slid each piston into its cylinder. I've never had to use one, but it may help to have a piston ring compressor tool. An assistant to hold the cylinder block might be useful too! I'm sure others will give advice on quirks specific to the GS reassembly.
Quote from: beRto on June 18, 2008, 10:31:38 AM
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 18, 2008, 10:20:37 AM
I dropped the cylinders off at the machine shop this morning, and he said it didn't look like a hone would clean up the damage. He is going to try and then call me later today. He said he also might have a line on oversized pistons for cheaper than the Suzuki parts. So if things go well I should be able to get it back within a week!
I don't think anyone thought honing would be enough... given the apparent extent of damage, the question was whether-or-not boring would be sufficient! :laugh: Hopefully the oversized piston option will work out for you. :thumb:
Quote
I'm just curious as to how the reassmbly will go with the rods still attached to the crank? Any time I've seen an engine reassmbled, the pistons and rods are put into the cylinders then tightened on the crank? Any suggestions?
I don't think you'll have any problems here. I've rebuilt a few snowmobiles and scooters and I've always just compressed the piston rings and then slid each piston into its cylinder. I've never had to use one, but it may help to have a piston ring compressor tool. An assistant to hold the cylinder block might be useful too! I'm sure others will give advice on quirks specific to the GS reassembly.
Agreed,
A ring compressor and an extra pair of hands make things far easier and safer when you are dealing with a block that has 2 or more cylinders.
At the risk of stating the obvious......dont forget to fit the base gasket first. You would be surprized at the number of people concerned about getting the pistons in the block who overlook it.
Would that base gasket be something that I could reuse from the original teardown since it was a metallic gasket not the crappy paper gasket? No one thinks it will be difficult to slide the piston in and then connect the rods while lowering it on the studs?
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 18, 2008, 11:10:42 AM
Would that base gasket be something that I could reuse from the original teardown since it was a metallic gasket not the crappy paper gasket? No one thinks it will be difficult to slide the piston in and then connect the rods while lowering it on the studs?
Your service manual will describe the best way to refit the pistons.
I dont believe in reusing any gaskets if it can be avoided..........however I am sure plenty of people will chime in and say "Yes you can" and "I have done it before and never had a problem" etc etc etc ...................the choice is yours.
Yeah my manual is in the mail, tracking said it left Las Vegas this morning at 9 a.m. but it won't be delivered till monday? I was hoping to get it before this weekend, but I don't think I will have the cylinders back before then with the new pistons anyway so I might just work on something else this weekend!
Quote from: beRto on June 14, 2008, 08:31:48 PM
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/gs_beRto/pistonCosts.gif)
This might be a silly question, but when I called the local suzuki dealership I was told the piston and ring set cost 90 dollars, and I needed two! Am I reading the above wrong? Doesn't a Piston Set mean there are 2 pistons? So my thoughts would be I need to order 1 of #17-1, 2 of #15, and 4 of #16? for a total of $92.09! He's trying to charge me $180!
Scratch that! Total price I was quoted at another dealership was 250!
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 18, 2008, 04:44:45 PM
Quote from: beRto on June 14, 2008, 08:31:48 PM
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/gs_beRto/pistonCosts.gif)
This might be a silly question, but when I called the local suzuki dealership I was told the piston and ring set cost 90 dollars, and I needed two! Am I reading the above wrong? Doesn't a Piston Set mean there are 2 pistons? So my thoughts would be I need to order 1 of #17-1, 2 of #15, and 4 of #16? for a total of $92.09! He's trying to charge me $180!
Sorry, I left out the headings. The quantity column represents the quantity required, not the quantity included for that price.
In this case, piston set means piston & rings.
Quote from: beRto on June 14, 2008, 08:31:48 PM
Get it all priced out and then decide if its worthwhile, compared to the cost of a replacement engine. Based on Mr. Cycles for reference, it looks like approx $160 + taxes + machine work
$180 sounds about right for the brand new parts.
Damn, okay. I'm not willing to spend almost what I bought the bike for on rebuilding the engine! So now my two options are the links to cylinders you posted earlier. What would be the best out of the following?
1.) buy the auction selling just the cylinders and have them honed and rering the pistons I currently have (which the machinist said were ok) - 25+shipping, rings, and honing.
2.) buy the auction selling piston/cylinder combo and have them honed and reringed - 50+shipping, rings and honing
Thanks,
Nick
I would go with option #1.
It is very likely that a bored and honed and hand fitted with new rings motor will seal up better, use lesser oil and live longer and better than one that already has wear and you wanna throw in old pistons in ... Stock rings are not very stiff, and stock bores are notorious for being at the high end of the spec when new. Boring honing and hand fitting rings will make a huge difference.
Cool.
Buddha.
but will it make as much of a difference to cover the 400+ cost of the work? I can't justify that in my head as much as I keep telling myself "newer is better".
I don't think it's worth the extra cost at all. If you were going for a maximum performance racebike then maybe, but it would still be a hard sell for me.
I would go with option #1 also. If your guy checked out the pistons and approved then go ahead and reuse them. Looking at Bikebandit.com the rings are $26.28 per set (need 2) the wrist pins are $8.21 each (need 2) and the circlips are $.76 each (need 4).
Other than a gasket set and various fluids I'm pretty sure that's it as far as parts. Go ahead and grab a $5 metric feeler gauge from the autoparts store while you're spending money; you'll need it to measure ring gap and valve clearance.
Re: installing the cylinder, the pistons go on the rods first and then the cylinder is lowered down as you feed the pistons into the bore.
Quote from: Mandres on June 19, 2008, 06:42:01 AM
I don't think it's worth the extra cost at all. If you were going for a maximum performance racebike then maybe, but it would still be a hard sell for me.
I would go with option #1 also. If your guy checked out the pistons and approved then go ahead and reuse them. Looking at Bikebandit.com the rings are $26.28 per set (need 2) the wrist pins are $8.21 each (need 2) and the circlips are $.76 each (need 4).
Other than a gasket set and various fluids I'm pretty sure that's it as far as parts. Go ahead and grab a $5 metric feeler gauge from the autoparts store while you're spending money; you'll need it to measure ring gap and valve clearance.
Re: installing the cylinder, the pistons go on the rods first and then the cylinder is lowered down as you feed the pistons into the bore.
I agree completely, if I was doing something other than just restoring it to stock and putzing around town to save gas then I would think about boring/OS pistons. But seeing as I paid 400 total for the bike, I can't bring myself to spend 400 on the parts and machine work on the cylinders.
Last night I picked up the cylinder on ebay and paid right away. I am going to check suzuki dealership for parts/time frame and compare with Bikebandit.com and see which can get it here quicker. For the rings, I'm hoping the machinist will be the one putting them in so I won't have to worry about the gaps? Or am I wrong in that aspect?
As for the reassmbly, thanks for the enlightenment! Thats the way I was hoping they would go in since I won't have to tear apart the bottom end. Will I need a ring compressor or should it just be a tight fit?
Thanks,
Nick
... but I love seeing fresh machine work :cry:
Oh well, your logic makes sense. Either way, you owe it to us (your loyal fans) to continue the detailed photo log! :icon_mrgreen:
Good luck with the rebuild!
I'm a camera whore. I hate being in pictures, but love to take them! So no worries on that. It just might be awhile before I can get anymore work done due to waiting on parts in the mail (THATS THE WORST). I might however start working on cleaning up the grime and crud on the engine case to prepare for repainting. If I do, I will make sure to start a new thread with progress pics.
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 19, 2008, 08:21:10 AM
I'm a camera whore. I hate being in pictures, but love to take them! So no worries on that. It just might be awhile before I can get anymore work done due to waiting on parts in the mail (THATS THE WORST). I might however start working on cleaning up the grime and crud on the engine case to prepare for repainting. If I do, I will make sure to start a new thread with progress pics.
OK, I'm happy again!
:thumb: :cheers:
I do what I can! :laugh: :thumb:
Hi Nick,
Man, what a mess you got yourself into! :) At least it sounds like you are having fun with it, and that's important. And you are learning, too. :)
On the ring gaps...
A good machinist will ask you to bring him/her all the needed parts for a bore or hone or whatever. The parts they will need include the cylinder head, pistons and new ring sets. You can also take the piston pins if they want to measure them. If they were building the engine for you, they'd measure the rod ends etc., too.
They need to first measure the pistons and that will determine whether they will fit the used cylinders that you have. If the bores in the used cylinders are within spec to be used with the pistons you removed from your rusty engine, then you are in good shape. But if the bores are too big or small for the pistons, then you will need to bore the cylinders and go to larger new pistons (expensive and I know you are trying to avoid it).
If the stars line up and your used cylinders magically will work with your pistons, that will be cool.
The machinist will want your new rings to be brought with the pistons and cylinders because they push the rings into the cylinders (WITHOUT BEING ON THE PISTONS) and then they can measure the ring end gaps -- the space between the ring ends when the rings are inside the cylinders. A bore that is too large means the end gaps are too large and will leak intake and exhaust charges, while gaps that are too small can allow the rings to bind and snap, and you don't want that happening inside the engine.
Again, since these are not the cylinders from your engine and they weren't originally matched to the pistons in your engine, you'll just have to see what all the parts measurements show you.
I hope it all works out for you.
Best wishes,
Todd
P.S. This is why I think it's always better to pay more for a quality bike than pay too much for a rough bike and have to invest lots more to make it all right.
There are two schools of thought on this, as you know.
:)
Good luck and have fun with it, bub!
Thank you for the input, I do normally agree however when I purchased the bike I was looking for a project and this was a little ruffer than I first thought it was. I am loving getting this far into the rebuild and I'm not looking at how much I'm spending to rebuild but looking at it as a learning experience. If the cylinders/pistons/rings don't match up I wont be extremly disapointed and I'll just have to purchase the more expensive parts later. I would just like to try to settle this for the cheapest way possible.
Thanks,
Nick
I just wanted to give this an update so it doesn't fall off into oblivion in past posts! I am waiting on the new cylinders to get here I bought from eBay, and the new rings, circlips, and wrist pins I got from bikebandit.com. Looks like I should have everything by the end of next week and can get it down to the machinist no later than the 28th.
In the meantime, I hate being idle so I taped off some of the engine and started sanding and preping to get it ready for paint. I started a new thread so as not to thread jack my own thread! Feel free to post any comments!
Thanks,
Nick
I also just picked up the following!
Buell X1 Seat
(http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/1239/buellseatww3.jpg)
Buell X1 Subframe
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4847/buellsubframema1.jpg)
Payment should clear by Wednesday (stupid paypal) and I should have them shortly after I get the engine work completed! We will be moving to a new apartment in our complex August 8th because they finally had one available with an attached garage so I'll also soon have a better work station!
Nick
Like the seat, love the sub-frame! How much did it run you? Is this going to be a easy mod?
Theres been two Gs's down so far with it
Jim Knolf's And Gstwizzle
Looks good yea
$220 total after shipping for both. Should have been a little cheaper but I got snaked with 4 seconds left on another subframe I was bidding on that would have dropped shipping since it was from the same seller as the seat. I guess thats what I get for bidding with 2 minutes left and not 20 seconds like I normally do!
It doesn't seem to be a direct bolt in, some customization will be involved, but it doesn't seem like an impossible challenge. I think it will be easier because it can bolt to the altered subframe you will have to make, which just means one less weld! Thats the only part I'm nervous about as I've only welded exhaust parts before and that was just fitting test pipes in where the cat used to be for our race cars. I've been thinking I might try to find someone locally with welding skills willing to work on a saturday for a case of beer and help with the tail swap?
I've got about 2 weeks before I get to that section at the earliest so I've got some time to make any decisions!
Thanks,
Nick
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 22, 2008, 09:09:06 AM
$220 total after shipping for both. Should have been a little cheaper but I got snaked with 4 seconds left on another subframe I was bidding on that would have dropped shipping since it was from the same seller as the seat. I guess thats what I get for bidding with 2 minutes left and not 20 seconds like I normally do!
It doesn't seem to be a direct bolt in, some customization will be involved, but it doesn't seem like an impossible challenge. I think it will be easier because it can bolt to the altered subframe you will have to make, which just means one less weld! Thats the only part I'm nervous about as I've only welded exhaust parts before and that was just fitting test pipes in where the cat used to be for our race cars. I've been thinking I might try to find someone locally with welding skills willing to work on a saturday for a case of beer and help with the tail swap?
I've got about 2 weeks before I get to that section at the earliest so I've got some time to make any decisions!
Thanks,
Nick
Were you located? If you have any questions that you think I may be able to answer, fire away. Not exactly the mods you'll need to make, but same under taking.
(http://inlinethumb53.webshots.com/36852/2211903190073478356S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2211903190073478356UObOuX)
(http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/22197/2271788310073478356S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2271788310073478356bhavGO)
I'm in Phoenix AZ, actually Glendale but thats a suburb of Phoenix. I think mine will be a little easier because I'm matching the subframe with the GS frame so I won't have as much custom building, but I still would like to have another set of experienced eyes and hands beside me while I work.
Well Im far from experienced and located in Massachusetts so all I can over is through this site.
Just Measure Measure Measure everything correctly, when working on something think it through, all the way through. If you have to move one thing, it may force the move of another and another creating a constant battle of compromises, think things through, ask others opinions and Measures Measure Measure everything correctly.
that would be one talented hand if you could help from MA! My main concern is going to be my lack of welding experience. I can weld, just not very well.
So i got some parts in the mail but unfortunately none that could help advance this build yet.
New Tach Cable, New Gasket Set, New Rings, New Circlips, New Wrist Pins:
(http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/9677/dsc01847ks6.jpg)
Still waiting on the top triple which payment cleared on Friday, Cylinders which payment cleared today, and the Buell X1 seat and subframe which the payment is supposed to clear tomorrow. In the meantime I've been painting the engine, which can be see in my other thread.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=42338.0 (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=42338.0)
You opinions are welcomed!
Thank you!
Nick
Been following both threads and it looks like you are coming along fine.Maybe not as fast as you'd like,but you're progressing. :thumb:
So the new cylinder head came in the mail and the cylinder walls look really good! Should barely need a hone to get it ready to slap in.
(http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/6679/dsc01859tc8.jpg)
However, I did notice some bad scratches on the mating surfaces!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: do you think these will cause any leaks later on down the road? Or can they be fixed since this piece is heading to the machine shop in the next day or two?
(http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2078/dsc01853zg4.jpg)
(http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1118/dsc01854hd8.jpg)
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2060/dsc01855md2.jpg)
Then after unpacking it from its HORRIBLE packaging (it actually broke through the box it was shipped in!), some of the fins come off in my hands!
(http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1584/dsc01856iq2.jpg)
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7136/dsc01857rt8.jpg)
That sux out loud.I would contact the seller.You maybe be able to have the new cylinder pressed out and pressed into the original cylinder block.Those gouges will cause a base gasket leak and you need all the cooling fins you can get in AZ.
This is turning into more silly work than I thought, starting to think I should have just overbored the original cylinders and moved on. Any clue what that might cost? I've got $75 in the rings, pins, and clips, and I'm assuming $50 for the hone. I could have gotten the OS pistons for $250, then I'm assuming $150 for the overbore.
So $400 for a perfect matched fit versus $125 plus the cylinders being pressed out and pressed in to the other walls. Almost going to negate the price difference lol
Anyone else know what that pressing might cost? Or if that damage could be fixed by welding and sanding it smooth at the machine shop? Or if it will cause a bad leak?
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on June 26, 2008, 09:39:37 AM
This is turning into more silly work than I thought, starting to think I should have just overbored the original cylinders and moved on. Any clue what that might cost? I've got $75 in the rings, pins, and clips, and I'm assuming $50 for the hone. I could have gotten the OS pistons for $250, then I'm assuming $150 for the overbore.
So $400 for a perfect matched fit versus $125 plus the cylinders being pressed out and pressed in to the other walls. Almost going to negate the price difference lol
Anyone else know what that pressing might cost? Or if that damage could be fixed by welding and sanding it smooth at the machine shop? Or if it will cause a bad leak?
Don't you already have a machinist lined up? Take your parts to him and discuss your options:
- Using e-bay cylinders as-is (possible mating issues)
- Pressing sleeves into old cylinders (possible cost/compatibility issues)
- Overbore
Because he can see the damage in person, the machinist will be able to give you an accurate opinion on the best course of action. He will also be able to provide a good estimate of costs.
Either way, you need the machinist to confirm that you can use your old pistons with these new cylinders. That is not a given and may eliminate several of the options altogether.
True, I'm just stuck as to when I can stop by and speak with him as I work 8-5:30 m-f and he's only open 8-6. He's about an hour drive from my work so I was hoping to get some advice before I made the drive down there.
Thanks for the input though, it does make a lot of sense.
Nick
I was unable to meet him this morning like I had originally planned, so I'm working on setting up an appointment for tomorrow morning and seeing what my options are. Will keep everyone updated!
Hey there,
That has to be discouraging about receiving the used parts in that condition -- those scrapes on the gasket surfaces are not good at all.
I hope that your machinist has some promising possibilities for you when he checks out all the components.
Those guys can be magicians with damaged parts!
Good luck.
We await the results of your visit with the machinist. This unfolding story is like reading a great novel! :)
Yeah it was a love/hate thing. I was looking at it and thought "AWESOME! Cylinders look perfect!" then turned it over seen the scratch and about screamed! I just got off the phone with the machinist and he is not working on saturday so I won't be able to drop parts off till Monday morning now. I told him about the situation and he said he would figure out what we could do on Monday. So now I have to figure out what I want to work on this weekend!
So while waiting for the machinist to look at the parts, I decided to touch up a couple other parts and install the new top triple with the new ignition.
Here are the handlebars and gauges removed, along with the top triple:
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4905/dsc01865oq2.jpg)
Here is the newly painted and installed top triple:
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/5900/dsc01869yl3.jpg)
However, when I was removing the gauges I did notice that the tach cable wasn't connected and after a little investigation the idiot who sold it to me had installed a gauge from the newer bikes and its not mechanical!
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8613/dsc01868ib0.jpg)
And I have also noticed a couple things that I'm starting to wonder about, first part of the VIN seems to be missing?
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2920/dsc01867an0.jpg)
And the damage around the old ignition mixed in with mis-matched keys for the ignition and gas tank.
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6079/dsc01871ef1.jpg)
Along with the fact the ignition has been replaced?
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2760/dsc01872ya1.jpg)
Or maybe I'm just worried about nothing, could have easily lost the keys and had to replace the ignition but didn't bother with the gas tank or seat lock and the scratches could be incidental?
Do you have a title for the bike? How did you transfer ownership without specifying a VIN? I think it is relatively inexpensive to run a check on a VIN to make sure it doesn't come up as stolen or otherwise... might be worthwhile in this case?
I'm sure you know this; it looks like you need to replace your brake lever.
What brand of brake lines are those? I'm told the stainless steel sheath will wear out if it is allowed to rub. Usually there is a plastic covering on the outside, but it doesn't look like yours has this?
Looks like the project is coming along nicely. :)
In arizona there is a special tag that is on the frame and that matched the numbers on the title so I wasn't to worried about it untill I started seeing all these other "signs" that something else might be up. I haven't transfered ownership yet because to do that I will need to get it inspected and its not in shape to go get inspected obviously!
I'm also in the process of moving to another apartment in our complex on july 12th that has a garage, and at that point the bike is going to be completely disassembled and then rebuilt from the ground up! I might not even put the engine back in once I get it together. At the very least I want to repaint (if not powdercoat) the frame, add the X1 subframe and seat, go to a wider rear wheel and maybe a small suspension upgrade (no plans yet for that - maybe progressives?), along with a new paint job on the tank and any other body panels.
So I got my last part in the mail, and along with moving this week, I should really start to have some fun with the frame! After the move I plan on stripping the frame down, installling the X1 subframe and powdercoating everything a nice charcol or graphite color. Similar to the top tripple trees I painted and posted pics of earlier. I was however a little disappointed with the condition of the subframe and all the scratches that are all over it!
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8411/dsc01882rp3.jpg)
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6004/dsc01886rx9.jpg)
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2073/dsc01887kd0.jpg)
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2971/dsc01888np9.jpg)
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9682/dsc01889ah3.jpg)
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3165/dsc01891pj7.jpg)
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5017/dsc01892yd1.jpg)
Any ideas on cleaning this up? I haven't worked with aluminum before and I want it to be up to par before it gets powder coated!
Thanks!
Anyone have tips for cleaning this up before I just give up and powdercoat it?
I am very fond of the brushed aluminum look...
Perhaps take a scotch brite pad and basically sand it all in one direction giving it that brushed, dull aluminum look.
So that won't damage the aluminum surface and will give the same lines as before?
Anyone?
We're you able to sort out the title issues with the bike? You may want to hold off on putting more money into this until you can work that out?
Sorry, I don't know anything about cleaning up aluminum...
I haven't, but if necessary I'll just get another frame to switch it over to. I'm really not that worried about that end of things at this point. I need to get my machinist to actually be able to meet up with me and get the engine done, and get moved into my new place this weekend before I start adding more things to my list of things to do. lol
Besides, I might need to get the bike inspected in order to title and register it and it is in pieces at this point and in no shape for an inspection.
Finally getting moved in to our new apartment and I'm ready to start working on the bike again!
Here is my new "work area"
(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9481/dsc01916ln9.jpg)
I began working on cutting the tail section off:
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2320/dsc01918am9.jpg)
Here is the tail section I cut off:
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9863/dsc01920zr5.jpg)
Here is the underside of the seat that I trimmed to get it to sit flush with the tank.
(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4279/dsc01921sh5.jpg)
And here is a test fit of the seat, still need to tuck in the cloth around the seat and restaple but the stock lip under the seat is able to clasp onto the GS tank!
(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8537/dsc01917jg0.jpg)
Next I'm going to do some more fitting/cutting for the subframe and see where else I need to trim to get it to line up.
Thanks,
Nick
Ahhh yes gotta love the beer can subframe btw heres a link to some MC salvage yards in AZ http://www.fullthrottlecycles.com/links/ffa-Arizona.html
utgunslinger13, great thread here.
That bike looks like it got used for submarine duty or something.
Since you have seen the rust situation, I would also look at inspecting the tank since you have everything apart.
I may have to buy a basket case just so I can have a bike to customize, I really think this sort of work is fun.
Keep up the good work.
birdman
Thank you! Its a lot of work but it'll be worth it in the end. Once I finish the engine and the frame, the tank and forks are my next step. Then the gauges and wiring, etc.
Did a little more work before it got to late to cut and grind anymore. Reshaped the seat and restapled the upholstery, cut out some more frame to test fit the rear section. Here are the results:
(http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8569/dsc01923ad4.jpg)
I've got the top lined up pretty well but still think I need to work on the lower rail lining up before I start making something to bolt the subframe in.
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2536/dsc01924de6.jpg)
Let me know what you guys think!
Thanks,
Nick
dammit man youre giving me ideas now. i may have to alter teh john deere bike concept slightly
Excellent work....Nothing like going past the point of no return by whacking off the stock sub frame rails.
Like I said, take a Scotch Brite Pad (Green) and with a bit of water or WD-40 sand the Aluminum Subframe. You want to sand all in the same direction, and not up and down, I'd sand lengthwise on that particular part. Something about the wave Light Waves will reflect off of a vertically polished piece compared to a horizontally sanded piece. By doing this you'll get that brushed, machined look out of the aluminum and up keep is as simple as re sanding when needed. Or if you had the time and energy you could polish that piece, sure then you have to clean it and polish it to keep it from oxidizing but a Chrome Like finish on a piece that big would also look nice. Let me know and I can give you the steps on how to polish if your not familar with them, or you could send it to me and I'd polish it for a $100.00.
In closing, this will no doubt be another killer GS and Project thread to follow.
servus,
its looking like this:
(http://gstwins.com/photogallery/albums/oldgallerybikes/aom.jpg)
you can see, how to fix the bull rear on the frame.
and here the endresult:
(http://gstwins.com/photogallery/albums/oldgallerybikes/aqn.jpg)
Yeah thats a little more agressive angle than I was hoping to go for. I have been following a project on here that I've picked most of the tips up from, I think GSTWIZZLE his his screen name on here. His doesn't quite come to that drastic of an angle and I think it looks much more rideable.
As for polishing/sanding the subframe, I plan on powdercoating the frame and subframe once everything is completed. Will they polish/sand the subframe smooth or should I make sure its in good condition before I take it in?
Thanks,
Nick
Hey Nick,call your coater and ask what he recommends for sanding and filling imperfections.He may already have included that in the price.
Ben2go: I actually haven't spoken to one yet. i just know thats what I plan on doing. But when I do speak with one I will ask if its included.
Jim Knopf: I wish there were some better pictures of how they altered it to bolt the subframe on, the more I see the better idea I can get in getting it to fit. But I think mine will have slightly less of a severe angle of the seat.
(http://gstwins.com/photogallery/albums/oldgallerybikes/aqn.jpg)
(http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/5337/dsc01926jl8.jpg)
I was trying to keep it level or below the tank lines, and I think I'm pretty close where I am now:
(http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/3527/dsc01927oj1.jpg)
what about any input on cutting out whats marked in green below and bending the rail down then rewelding it solid? Any negatives about doing that to get it to line with the subframe?
(http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7387/dsc01929in1.jpg)
A pie cut would work there./
Pie cut? Is that what its called? It won't affect anything strength wise doing that will it?
BTW, you see that large spot thats just SCREAMING for some industrial grade speaker grill? lol 8)
If you send me some exact card board templates and shipping costs I'll cut them out and mail it to you for free.
I'd make the Pie Cut (Thats what I call it) before the weld, no need in messing with the factory weld.
I definetly won't allow you doing it for free, but once I get to that point I'm sure we can work something out!
So you think I should move out a couple inches from the factory weld? Is that for strength issues or just to stay away from those welds?
Now this might be the silliest question I've asked, but I haven't had much luck in searching online. Where or how would I find a place the sells metal that I can use to construct the mounts for the subframe? Some C-chanel or some 3/16ths flat steel? Do I have to buy online or is there some place that sells in a store like Home Depot or Tractor Supply (which I don't know if we have out here in AZ)?
I'm not worried about getting money for the mesh, I got it for free and it would take me about a half hour or so to cut out what you need, when your ready let me know.
Without being there I'm gonna have a hard time offering any advice on how to mount it but I'll give it a shot.
I'd make a set of 4 Triangular Ears out of Sheet Stock. The triangle points would be rounded over instead of pointy. On the single rounded point of the triangle you want it big enough to drill a hole through and still have enough material for strength and accommodating the flange of the bolt this bolt will bolt to the sub frame. Next I would cut a slice down the length of the stock frame stubs so you can slot in the Triangle Ear being able to weld it on 4 sides of the stk rail stubs.
As for the factory weld I'd leave it alone and use a small pie cut further up to bend the rail and fill that in with weld and or patch plate.
Lowes does sell metal, though their supply isant all that big.
Quote from: Fry on July 17, 2008, 10:03:40 PM
I'd make a set of 4 Triangular Ears out of Sheet Stock. The triangle points would be rounded over instead of pointy. On the single rounded point of the triangle you want it big enough to drill a hole through and still have enough material for strength and accommodating the flange of the bolt this bolt will bolt to the sub frame. Next I would cut a slice down the length of the stock frame stubs so you can slot in the Triangle Ear being able to weld it on 4 sides of the stk rail stubs.
Wow, it is either to early in the morning or I'm just not able to picture what you mean. Would you mind describing it again or even draw something up for your suggestion?
Thanks!
This is a horrible Paint Sketch but hopefully it will illustrate my idea a little better, heck it might not even a good choice, just throwing out an idea.
(http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/42667/2275745640073478356S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2275745640073478356iVYGeu)
The only problem with that is that the upper part of the subframe has the same inner width as the upper stock subframe.
(http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4708/dsc01930hm8.jpg)
The lower is slightly different but it was difficult to take a picture.
(http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/8467/dsc01932ar7.jpg)
I'm thinking that some flat plate would be the best option, but how thick do you think I would need for the strength required?
I thought that might be a problem.
One thing I would like to see is the use of 2 pieces of plate steel to create a mount, and not just one piece welded to the inside of the stock rails which the sub would bolt to.
I would weld a shaped piece on the inside and outside of each stk. frame stub, something stylizied and have the sub frame slot into that then run a bolt and nut through it.
As for metal maybe 1/8th or 3/16th thick would definitely do it.
well 3/16ths is the thickest my welder can weld so thats good. I think i agree with you on a flat plate on the inside and outside for strength but for aesthetics thats the last option lol Would the single plate on the inside not be enough? What about if I box it in after? Connecting the upper and lower and each side together?
Another bike on the forum was doing the exact swap here and I'm wondering if thats the best mounting procedure? The following pictures are from GSTWIZZLE's build:
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d95/toxiic05/Picture019-1.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d95/toxiic05/Picture025.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d95/toxiic05/Picture025-1.jpg)
Any ideas on the mounts? Something easier? Something stronger? Where might I pick up some of this "C channel" stuff?
I suppose that would be strong enough, you should be talking with him as he has done this already. To me and it's purely an uneducated opinion just having 1 piece to attach it looks like it's an after thought bolted together in the quickest manner. Now I can only imagine how much fab work that guy has into it, along with the design stage so I'm giving him full credit cause it aint easy but for me and my time I would make something that looks/is more substantial and stylized.
I guess a single plate/c=channel would be enough as there isn't much Lateral forces being applied, mostly vertical and downward forces in that area but if it were me I would fashion some type of sandwiched style mount. You could build the mounts to mimic the Buell rails shape somewhat and have minimal boxing to do if you even wanted to.
The moree I look at those pics the more I like them, though I'd use Boxed steel rather than C-Channel. I'd also make the ends of each connecting piece the same shape as the sub frame ends, that way it will blend in, you can do this by making a card board template of the Buell piece, cut 2 out for each connecting rail and weld them on each side of the boxed steel, then just box the top and bottom of this.
I do agree the boxed portion seems better, I'm just not 100% in my welding skills so I'm trying to figure a way to hide my welds as much as possible lol I'd also really like to keep the "homemade" portion hidden as much as possible so in that aspect it has me leaning towards a large box being constructed internally to the subframe and just bolting the subframe to that box.
Its like buying a diamond, size color clarity price. You can usually have 2 or 3 but not all 4! lol
So after a long needed vacation to vegas and a newly bought ring, I proposed to my girlfriend of 2.5 years on top of the Eiffel Tower and I'm now engaged! :o 8)
(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/8227/dsc01960bz6.jpg)
But vacation is over and back to reality. I finally got a little more work done on the bike, and got some of the mounting plates started. Please excuse the horrible welds, I'm still learning.
(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5738/dsc01963nq8.jpg)
Here is a back view, but I think I'm going to cut out and redo the bottom mounts and change their angles:
(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/5996/dsc01964vg0.jpg)
Upper mount view:
(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/584/dsc01965sn1.jpg)
Lower Mount again:
(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/1025/dsc01966wq2.jpg)
I also got my parts back from the machinst after some nasty words being said on both parts. Over a month to hone and fix a part of the mounting surface, he didn't switch out the rings like I asked and 2 missed meetings to drop off parts :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: is all I have to say to him. On the upside it only cost $25 :cheers:
Cylinders and pistons:
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8990/dsc01969lj5.jpg)
Down the cylinder, pretty cross hatches:
(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/3445/dsc01967xq4.jpg)
The mounting surface he welded and "cleaned up":
(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/1128/dsc01968um7.jpg)
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on July 25, 2008, 06:48:34 PM
On the upside it only cost $25 :cheers:
Good - cheap - fast - pick no more than two, and possibly only one.
As for the welds, I'd strongly suggest that you grab some scrap and practice welding on scrap - this is very much one of those skills where practice makes perfect (or at least lack of practice makes imperfect) and it's good to get the really bad ones done on scrap where it does not matter.
I'm planning on cutting out the bottom plates and change the angles a little to center the bolt hole a little more. Part of the problem is that I have a handheld mask so I'm trying to weld one handed. They are strong just REALLY UGLY. I'm going to end up grinding them all down and puttying them up just to look better.
Sheesh - those are not meant for welding with - those are for observers. Spend $22...
http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/25066.html (http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/25066.html)
or $58...
http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/SS2-0801.html (http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/SS2-0801.html)
yeah I agree, but it came with the welder and I was in a hurry to start welding and didn't want to drive out for another mask just to start welding. I am getting better with it and have started noticing different things as far as speed, control, and have been able to get quite better welds than the first time. I'm really starting to enjoy myself! Now I just need to figure out the best way to cut/grind smooth metal since I think I've burnt my dremel out! :mad::flipoff::mad::flipoff::mad: And I now have a blister on my finger from using a hand file (I think its called a double something bastard lol).
Here is a top view of where I was sanding tonight:
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1655/dsc01971qj8.jpg)
View from the inside:
(http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/769/dsc01972jw2.jpg)
View from the outside;
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/395/dsc01973bb1.jpg)
And in order to sand this, then refill low spots with more weld, then resanding the high spots took me about 3 hours tonight. There has to be something relatively inexpensive that I can buy/rent to help speed this process up?
Thanks,
Nick
Depends where "relatively inexpensive" falls in your world, to some extent.
Without going shopping to see what one sells for now (mine has not died yet) I paid about $100 for a decent name-brand (green) 4-1/2" angle grinder - with appropriate implements it cuts/grinds metal, masonry, etc - you can get flap discs for sanding - at present I'm abusing the poor thing (dust) by using a dry diamond blade to cut tile (I hates bathroom remodeling, I does) - it runs some mean wire brushes too. Harbor Freight (et al) probably has some horrid knock-off for much less, but that's a crap-shoot in quality. Mine is at least 5 years old (I don't recall precisely) and going strong.
My understanding is that there is a large jump in quality/usefulness between 4" and 4-1/2" grinders.
Of course, it won't fit in the tiniest places where a Dremel is actually better (well, a Foredom is better, but only if you have long-term-relatively inexpensive in mind - the up front cost is steep, but they last forever and work like nothing else electric). In a smaller size you can look at electric die grinders or air die grinders (relatively cheap and _very_ long-lasting _if_ you have the expensive compressor to run them.)
...Safety glasses and hearing protection strongly recommended.
Curiosity got the best of me. $41.22 at amazon...free shipping, even.
Ahh, but that's like a 300 watt motor (G12SS) - mine is 1300W(G12SA), and those still go for about $90 (but are perhaps discontinued) - but will do a lot more work.
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on July 25, 2008, 07:21:59 PM
I'm planning on cutting out the bottom plates and change the angles a little to center the bolt hole a little more. Part of the problem is that I have a handheld mask so I'm trying to weld one handed. They are strong just REALLY UGLY. I'm going to end up grinding them all down and puttying them up just to look better.
The more you weld then cut to change it the more trouble your going to have and the weaker the metal gets, potentially.
As others have said, try to get some similar sized metals and practice welding on them. You are using a Mig right?
Do something about that helmet also, it's showing up in your welds with the Globs and Splatter well off center of your intended target welding area. plus a bit to much Build Up as well. Perhaps raise the heat up a bit and pull your weld a little quicker. With that being said, the welds I have done on my GS project at times have come out horrible and I have had to grind them down and re-start. You want to make sure your penetrating both metals, not just welding on a nice bead of weld On Top of the metals your joining. I like to use a Mig like a Stick Welder, I'll switch the weld puddle in semi circular motions creating, or trying to create a nice weld that looks like a roll of dimes.
IMHO those Lugs you welded on are to big, I'm telling you, cut out of sheet plate 4 Triangle Ears wit the corners rounded off. Weld them to the inside and outside of each frame stub, the Buell Sub will slot into this, much better looking than a big Piece your currently working with.
Overall, great work, nice determination, and a cool project overall.
Quote from: DoD#i on July 26, 2008, 05:38:57 AM
Depends where "relatively inexpensive" falls in your world, to some extent.
Without going shopping to see what one sells for now (mine has not died yet) I paid about $100 for a decent name-brand (green) 4-1/2" angle grinder - with appropriate implements it cuts/grinds metal, masonry, etc - you can get flap discs for sanding - at present I'm abusing the poor thing (dust) by using a dry diamond blade to cut tile (I hates bathroom remodeling, I does) - it runs some mean wire brushes too. Harbor Freight (et al) probably has some horrid knock-off for much less, but that's a crap-shoot in quality. Mine is at least 5 years old (I don't recall precisely) and going strong.
My understanding is that there is a large jump in quality/usefulness between 4" and 4-1/2" grinders.
Of course, it won't fit in the tiniest places where a Dremel is actually better (well, a Foredom is better, but only if you have long-term-relatively inexpensive in mind - the up front cost is steep, but they last forever and work like nothing else electric). In a smaller size you can look at electric die grinders or air die grinders (relatively cheap and _very_ long-lasting _if_ you have the expensive compressor to run them.)
...Safety glasses and hearing protection strongly recommended.
Curiosity got the best of me. $41.22 at amazon...free shipping, even.
Ahh, but that's like a 300 watt motor (G12SS) - mine is 1300W(G12SA), and those still go for about $90 (but are perhaps discontinued) - but will do a lot more work.
I guess for a piece that my only plan to use it would be to smoth out the welds $100 might be a little steep. I paid 25-30 for the dremel and it worked okay till it just stopped turning on! I might return it to wal-mart and get a new one lol. Is there a place that might let me rent something like those angle grinders your talking about? I know home depot rents tools and I live right next to one.
Quote from: Fry on July 26, 2008, 07:33:34 AM
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on July 25, 2008, 07:21:59 PM
I'm planning on cutting out the bottom plates and change the angles a little to center the bolt hole a little more. Part of the problem is that I have a handheld mask so I'm trying to weld one handed. They are strong just REALLY UGLY. I'm going to end up grinding them all down and puttying them up just to look better.
The more you weld then cut to change it the more trouble your going to have and the weaker the metal gets, potentially.
As others have said, try to get some similar sized metals and practice welding on them. You are using a Mig right?
Do something about that helmet also, it's showing up in your welds with the Globs and Splatter well off center of your intended target welding area. plus a bit to much Build Up as well. Perhaps raise the heat up a bit and pull your weld a little quicker. With that being said, the welds I have done on my GS project at times have come out horrible and I have had to grind them down and re-start. You want to make sure your penetrating both metals, not just welding on a nice bead of weld On Top of the metals your joining. I like to use a Mig like a Stick Welder, I'll switch the weld puddle in semi circular motions creating, or trying to create a nice weld that looks like a roll of dimes.
IMHO those Lugs you welded on are to big, I'm telling you, cut out of sheet plate 4 Triangle Ears wit the corners rounded off. Weld them to the inside and outside of each frame stub, the Buell Sub will slot into this, much better looking than a big Piece your currently working with.
Overall, great work, nice determination, and a cool project overall.
Yeah before i was just arcing to the metal and letting the puddle build up, but I've been trying different patterns on scrap like everyone suggested and IMO I think I'm now pulling a sweet "roll of dimes" bead (at least much better than the previous welds). The problem is with just getting engaged money is now tight and I can't justify a new welding mask, and a new angle grinder when I have something that works, just not quite as good. lol
Thanks for all the input!
Nick
Your doing fine, make what you have work as far as tools and technique....With practice comes perfection.
So I went ahead and bought a cheap angle grinder from wal-mart for $25 today and got into the grinding quite a bit more.
Right side lower:
(http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7301/dsc01978wl1.jpg)
Left side lower:
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1804/dsc01983jq0.jpg)
Left side lower inside:
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3917/dsc01982gn2.jpg)
Right side upper:
(http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7578/dsc01979an2.jpg)
Right side closer view from the outside:
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6222/dsc01980tb2.jpg)
Right side closer view from the inside:
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6475/dsc01981fs1.jpg)
So I'm slowly making progress, I'm just taking my time because I'm so nervous about getting things done RIGHT. As always, your input is welcomed!!!
So I've fnially made some progress with the mounts, unfortunately not as quickly as I would like, but I'd rather take my time now than hurry through and be unhappy with the results!
I was finally able to get a real mock up with the new mounts welded and drilled. It shows I still have some work to do to get it all 100% but I'm getting closer!
Here is the right side of the bike looking at the upper mount, seat, and tank. The red line is where I plan on cutting to help fit everything back together.
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7349/dsc01987db6.jpg)
Here is the right side of the bike looking at the lower mount. This isn't very pleasing aesthetically, but right now I want it strong and later I'll worry about looks.
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/993/dsc01986jj6.jpg)
Here is the left side of the bike showing both mounts and how I had to turn the battery to fit between the mounts. This hasn't been permanently moved here, but I think it looks to be a great fit and will allow for mounting of electronics and other things if necessary.
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5889/dsc01991kf9.jpg)
Here is a nice rear end shot, still debating on cutting that tail light mount off or just making things easy and using buell tails?
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2687/dsc01988tf3.jpg)
And here is a nice side shot, I think she's starting to take shape!
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4500/dsc01992dy0.jpg)
I'll be getting out of work early tomorrow for meeting a goal so I'm hoping to finish all four mounts and will be looking at adding any extra cross members or strength anywhere possible. Let me know what you guys think!
Thanks,
Nick
Morning bump just because I think it was to late for anyone to see it last night!
Great Work.
Thank you! One of my main concerns is that with the batter turned that I won't be able to put in a cross bar to tie the two upper mounts together and the two lower mounts together. If I were to put the battery in normal orientation, the bolts for the two upper subframe mounts hit the battery and you can not get a nut in there. The only solution I can think of, short of buying a smaller battery, is to turn the battery back to the stock orientation then lower the mounting portion 2 inches.
So if I were to lower the battery to clear the bolts, would I have to worry about any rubbing from bottoming out the suspension? It doesn't seem that it should rub, but does anyone have any input on how low I could move the battery? Or perhaps how much the swing arm will move up under load?
Thanks,
Nick
Your already half way there, and have welding skills so...Cut the battery box out/unbolt it, ditch the stock airbox for a K+N Lunchbox, and weld the batt right on the cross tube for the upper shock mount.
I agree that would work perfect but for now I went ahead and just lowered the battery mount 2.5 inches or so. I was afraid to move it towards the front in prep for a k&n lunchbox without having one to measure the clearances so I just lowered it. I am still alittle worried about the rubbing issue if I were to bottom out, but I can move it later if need be. Its late and I don't have pictures loaded, but I'll get some tomorrow for everyone.
Thanks,
Nick
You mentioned that with the Batt. in the Stk. location you couldn't get a nut on the back of the bolt well how about using a Button Headed Allen Bolt (Thin profile of the head of the bolt), and send it through from the opposite direction and have a nut on the outside? Then you can get one of those fancy little decorative caps to hide the ugly looking nut on the outside.
Just a thought.
Quote from: Fry on August 03, 2008, 12:50:30 AM
You mentioned that with the Batt. in the Stk. location you couldn't get a nut on the back of the bolt well how about using a Button Headed Allen Bolt (Thin profile of the head of the bolt), and send it through from the opposite direction and have a nut on the outside? Then you can get one of those fancy little decorative caps to hide the ugly looking nut on the outside.
Just a thought.
+ 1
Due to the battery "breather?" (the piece that the sticker points to next to the neg term of the battery) the battery would not fit between the two upper mounts, let alone allow anything to come through the mounting holes. So I went ahead and lowered the stock mounting location about 2-2.5 inches. Now it will sit in and no clearance issues with the battery.
View from the rear tire:
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4148/dsc01994la0.jpg)
View from the right side:
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8001/dsc01995ow5.jpg)
Another view from the right side showing a little better the clearance I'm working with between the battery and tire:
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6008/dsc01996zi9.jpg)
Here are the bolts and nuts I chose to use, with the battery lowered there are no longer clearance issues:
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5904/dsc01998mq8.jpg)
And here is an almost final shot! Still debating some cross member bars for strength but haven't fully decided yet:
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6615/dsc02000bs1.jpg)
As always, your input would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Nick
Please tell me those are Grade 8 Nuts and Bolts....
Otherwise great work, ingenuity and perseverance.
+1 with locking nuts for final installation.
ALERT!
It looks like you have a pretty good mount but after looking how you did the battery box, I would still worry about the lateral structure strength you mentioned earlier. The drop-down you made looks to only be tack welded.
Now look at the factory brace that is there that you pictured prior to cutting it.
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1804/dsc01983jq0.jpg)
The factory brace is a seriously important structural support from what I see. It keeps the whole rearend from swinging side to side so it is wise to be concerned. Now that you have the box put in I can see what you are talking about.
I would tie the bottoms of the new mounting ears here with a piece of plate ( or even a piece of 90 angle to box the bottom and rear faces) and fully weld all seams including the battery box. Look for more ways to make it stronger. I don't see a clearance issue really that close to the pivot point of the suspension.
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6008/dsc01996zi9.jpg)
Hope this makes sense and is helpful.
Birdman
Quote from: Fry on August 03, 2008, 03:07:39 PM
Please tell me those are Grade 8 Nuts and Bolts....
Otherwise great work, ingenuity and perseverance.
I know that is a concern and to be honest with you I have no clue how to tell the grade of the bolt. I got these from Home Depot as I knew they would fit for the mock up. Here is a picture of the bolt if you can tell me if I need to upgrade or not?
(http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/302/dsc02010yx4.jpg)
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on August 03, 2008, 05:33:17 PM
I know that is a concern and to be honest with you I have no clue how to tell the grade of the bolt.
Those appear to be Grade 5 bolts:
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx
http://www.americanfastener.com/technical/grade_markings_steel.asp
Quote from: birdman on August 03, 2008, 03:41:58 PM
+1 with locking nuts for final installation.
ALERT!
It looks like you have a pretty good mount but after looking how you did the battery box, I would still worry about the lateral structure strength you mentioned earlier. The drop-down you made looks to only be tack welded. The factory brace is a seriously important structural support from what I see. It keeps the whole rearend from swinging side to side so it is wise to be concerned. Now that you have the box put in I can see what you are talking about.
That picture was taken after a long night of working and it not being completely done. I finished the weld this morning and grinded it down. The tack was just to get it in to help me eyeball the fit.
(http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/7238/dsc02003di5.jpg)
Quote from: birdman on August 03, 2008, 03:41:58 PM
I would tie the bottoms of the new mounting ears here with a piece of plate ( or even a piece of 90 angle to box the bottom and rear faces) and fully weld all seams including the battery box. Look for more ways to make it stronger. I don't see a clearance issue really that close to the pivot point of the suspension.
Hope this makes sense and is helpful.
Birdman
It makes perfect sense, I have a few options for braces I was looking at due to clearance issues and problems removing the battery.
I have 3 options for the lower mount that I can see (these are just being held in place by my fiance and in no way are actually mounted to the bike!):
Option 1, flat bar across the back portion of the ear:
(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6554/dsc02005xt6.jpg)
Option 2, 90 degree piece across the bottom, this would just reinforce my worries of clearance with the tire:
(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/696/dsc02006am0.jpg)
Option 3, 90 degree piece across the top with a cut out to clear the battery. If I choose this method, I plan some gussets on the inside where it opens up for the battery cutout:
(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/3214/dsc02008hd5.jpg)
The way I see it, due to needing access to the battery and clearance to remove it, I only have 1 option for a brace on the upper mounts:
Flat bar across the top, 90 degree won't work without a cutout to clear battery removal:
(http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/6949/dsc02007pn4.jpg)
Please anyone chime in because I have NO EXPERIENCE with this sort of things and would love a consensus on here about the best option.
Thank you!
Nick
Quote from: beRto on August 03, 2008, 05:37:49 PM
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on August 03, 2008, 05:33:17 PM
I know that is a concern and to be honest with you I have no clue how to tell the grade of the bolt.
Those appear to be Grade 5 bolts:
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx
http://www.americanfastener.com/technical/grade_markings_steel.asp
Will a grade 5 bolt need to be replaced? The strengths and numbers mean nothing to me :oops: lol
5 may work, but you want 8, considered the strongest generally available strenght out there.
I like the idea of incorporating a custom battery box, into your structural cross brace, though it looks like the vent on the Batt would still be a issue.
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on August 03, 2008, 05:54:03 PM
Quote from: beRto on August 03, 2008, 05:37:49 PM
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on August 03, 2008, 05:33:17 PM
I know that is a concern and to be honest with you I have no clue how to tell the grade of the bolt.
Those appear to be Grade 5 bolts:
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx
http://www.americanfastener.com/technical/grade_markings_steel.asp
Will a grade 5 bolt need to be replaced? The strengths and numbers mean nothing to me :oops: lol
Here's an explanation of the difference:
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/fasteners/index.asp
The bottom line is that Grade 8 fasteners can support higher forces than Grade 5 fasteners; to be safe, you are better off using the Grade 8.
The Grade 5 bolts should be adequate for your purpose. The key is a graded bolt here. No grade bolts are often much weaker than the charts indicate.
I agree with the cardboard mock-up for the support. You may want to consider a couple things for the shape.
If you cut a notch in it for the battery, make sure to radius the inside corners as much as possible, don't make them sharp corners. Corners are inherently weak. You could taper it from the welded edge towards the inside corner to make it even smoother transition while still giving you as big a welded edge as possible. Sort of like a bowtie effect on that one side.
I keep looking at that framework all bolted up, that is a great balance of a design. Very esthetically pleasing.
Quote from: birdman on August 03, 2008, 06:56:53 PM
The Grade 5 bolts should be adequate for your purpose. The key is a graded bolt here. No grade bolts are often much weaker than the charts indicate.
I agree with the cardboard mock-up for the support. You may want to consider a couple things for the shape.
If you cut a notch in it for the battery, make sure to radius the inside corners as much as possible, don't make them sharp corners. Corners are inherently weak. You could taper it from the welded edge towards the inside corner to make it even smoother transition while still giving you as big a welded edge as possible. Sort of like a bowtie effect on that one side.
I keep looking at that framework all bolted up, that is a great balance of a design. Very esthetically pleasing.
I like the idea of the "bowtie" effect on the battery mount side, but what about if I did that to both sides just to allow some room between the tire and the angle steel? How close should I get to the bend before I start to lose the strength it adds?
Also, will Home Depot have grade 8 bolts if I choose to upgrade?
Thanks,
Nick
From what I see I would expect the most worrisome force to be effected at the mounting ears from lateral loading, side to side.
The original bike structure used square tubing which is quite rigid and you've lost that in the ears between the bolt holes and the thick part of your welding.
If you need to clearance the 90 angle as shown in cardboard on the other side for tire clearance you should not give up too much in the way of lateral strength. I would try to leave as much meat as possible. Remember the upper mounting points will be in extension and the lower mount under compression due to your weight on the seat.
The original bike structure did not provide any lateral bracing from the upper spars. By adding a piece to your upper mounts like you show this may offset the weaker bowtie lower brace. Watch out for the seat clearance though.
This may seem like overkill but if it prevents a seat collapse on a big bump in the road later on down the line, then its worth it.
Automotive, NAPA or the like should be a good source for grade 8 bolts.
I'm new to cycling and the forum. I don't have anything technical to add to this thread but just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed reading it (and learning from it), can't wait for more photos and posts of how your bike is coming along. Love the seat and subframe, looks great!
Quote from: notjohndavid on August 04, 2008, 02:14:17 PM
I'm new to cycling and the forum. I don't have anything technical to add to this thread but just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed reading it (and learning from it), can't wait for more photos and posts of how your bike is coming along. Love the seat and subframe, looks great!
Thanks for the kind words, just remember that with enough time, energy, and patience anything is possible. I had no clue how to get the engine out of the bike when I started this a couple months ago and now look where I am! Never be afraid to try something and learn from your mistakes!
Quote from: birdman on August 04, 2008, 12:55:27 PM
From what I see I would expect the most worrisome force to be effected at the mounting ears from lateral loading, side to side.
The original bike structure used square tubing which is quite rigid and you've lost that in the ears between the bolt holes and the thick part of your welding.
If you need to clearance the 90 angle as shown in cardboard on the other side for tire clearance you should not give up too much in the way of lateral strength. I would try to leave as much meat as possible. Remember the upper mounting points will be in extension and the lower mount under compression due to your weight on the seat.
The original bike structure did not provide any lateral bracing from the upper spars. By adding a piece to your upper mounts like you show this may offset the weaker bowtie lower brace. Watch out for the seat clearance though.
This may seem like overkill but if it prevents a seat collapse on a big bump in the road later on down the line, then its worth it.
Automotive, NAPA or the like should be a good source for grade 8 bolts.
The seat has plenty of clearance, so the upper brace shouldn't be much of an issue. I agree completely that I want to eliminate the possibility of a seat collapse later, but I'm still new to the forces that the seat/frame will deal with so I'm unsure if the cross braces will be sufficient. Hopefully I will get the braces in sometime this week and be to a point I'm satisfied with the frame by this weekend.
Thanks for all you input!
Nick
ever considered an X brace, between teh subframe legs?
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on August 04, 2008, 08:31:26 PM
ever considered an X brace, between teh subframe legs?
I'm assuming you mean from viewed from the rear? Like connecting the upper left and lower right together and the upper right to the lower left? This would not work due to the battery's location, and the subframe mounting brackets are at an angle as to not allow the x brace I'm assuming you mean.
Nick
i mneant from left side to right, for lateral bracing :thumb: any way i can get a pic directly from the rear? as well as directly from one side or the otehr. ( no matter which side TBH)
Oh I got ya now! I was thinking the X meant a brace shaped like an X not a "CROSS BRACE" lol
Here is the rear view:
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4148/dsc01994la0.jpg)
Here is the side view:
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8001/dsc01995ow5.jpg)
Thanks,
Nick
Excuse my horrible paint skills, but here is a diagram of what I am planning for the lateral forces as of right now.
(http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/3852/rightside1tl2.jpg)
The upper is a 90 degree angle bar connecting the upper left to the upper right. The lower is also a 90 degree angle bar, but with a cut out for the batter box clearance, and possibly a cutout for clearance of the rear tire if necessary.
Thanks,
Nick
What about making a Batt. Box/Slash Upper and Lower Rear Brace set up?
The top Horizontal Brace, made out of whatever size and shape material, along with the same bottom one, could be used as mounting structures for a Batter box. On the lower, shoot 2 forward legs, spaced far enough apart to cradle the bottom of the battery, do the same wit the top, or weld your Batt structure as it is now, to these cross braces...
Well last night I started mocking up the cross braces exactly as I have them pictured in the photo I drew on in paint. I'll see what I can do about possibly incorporating them into the battery box, but again my first concern is strength, second clearance from the tire/removal of the battery, and then aesthetics are a distant third! O0
I still have some slight changes I want to make as my first tack put it so I can not remove the battery easily, so I'm going to look at rotating the battery box to see if that makes more room before I start cutting more out of the cross brace. I'll keep you up to date with any changes!
Thanks,
Nick
When is the next installment (journel entry/photos) of "As The Engine Turns" due out? :-D
I did get some work done this weekend, but I ran out of welding wire and haven't been able to get a whole lot done. I am now in the process of trying to locate a seat latch that didn't come with the tail section or to fab something up that will work. Hopefully I'll get pictures of how she sits tonight and get them up.
Thanks,
Nick
Any progress on the engine rebuild?
The engine is sitting in the garage waiting to be put back together. I sorta put it on hold till I got the tail section done because I want to paint/powder coat the frame which means I'm in no hurry to get the engine done because it can't go back in till the frame is done. As of right now I have everything welded into place except the lower cross brace, which has the outside welded but not the inside. Once I get that welded in, all thats left is some bondo work to smoth everything down and its off to paint/powder coating. Once that is done, then I will move on to the engine rebuild.
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on August 10, 2008, 09:37:04 PM
The engine is sitting in the garage waiting to be put back together.
...
Once that is done, then I will move on to the engine rebuild.
Just curious, has the engine already been honed/bored, or is it still waiting for machining? What was the conclusion there?
Quote from: beRto on August 10, 2008, 10:11:09 PM
Just curious, has the engine already been honed/bored, or is it still waiting for machining? What was the conclusion there?
Yes the engine was honed and will need to be reringed, which I have sitting in the box waiting to go in. I've just been sidetracked getting the frame ready.
Nick
I just spend 45 minutes reading this whole thread.
Awesome.
You'd BETTER get this thing running.
indeed :thumb:
Thanks for all the kind words guys, hopefully this weekend I'll be able to strip it down and do a final weld and sand on anything remaining. Once thats to my liking, the frame is going to be sent out to either get painted or powdercoated. While the frame is out, I'm going to get the engine back together and hopefully have it ready when the frame is completed.
Partial list of things still to do:
~Finish Frame and side covers to cover the new openings
~Powdercoat/Paint parts (wheels, frame, etc)
~Reassemble Engine
~Find a suitable mud shield
~Reroute all wiring to match new tail section and placement of relays etc.
~Tank will need to be gone over to remove any rust and coated then repainted
~Still undecided on sticking with stock gauges or going digital
~Replace headlight, still undecided on what to replace it with
If your getting the frame welded , why not just have a r1 tail welded on and powdercoated , with a katana Wheel .. mhm yum
Quote from: Jay_wolf on August 12, 2008, 01:56:46 PM
If your getting the frame welded , why not just have a r1 tail welded on and powdercoated , with a katana Wheel .. mhm yum
Because I'm welding the frame and I like the Buell X1 tail section better :kiss3:
So I started tearing everything down for the final prep before sending it out for powdercoating or paint.
Here is the frame waiting for its final sanding and welding, still need to remove the kick stand and center stand, and a couple bolts. This will all be painted or powder coated Charcoal:
(http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/7125/gs500framekg1.jpg)
Here is the rear swing arm, still need to disasemble it. Everything except the rotor, caliper, the stabilizing bar, and chrome piece above the foot peg will be painted or powder coated Charcoal:
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7361/gs500frame1cr8.jpg)
Here is the front forks, which still need to be disassembled. The rim will be powder coated. The only thing being painted on this is the front fender, both painted and black portions:
(http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6613/gs500frame2pv2.jpg)
Here is a bunch of random parts that will need some attention later. Carbs will probably need to be cleaned and rebuilt, tank will be repainted or powdercoated, and headlight will probably be replaced:
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6830/gs500frame3we9.jpg)
Here is the absolute mess that is known as the wiring harness, the idiot before me jacked up so much of the wiring I'm actually contemplating replacing with a new harness to save the work of rebuilding it. Things are so mess up, I can't completely seperate the harness from the headlight bucket or gauges without cutting wires!:
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3931/gs500frame4xs2.jpg)
Here is a close-up of the mess with the harness inside the headlight bucket:
(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8867/gs500frame5bo8.jpg)
Thats all I have for now, will keep it updated as I progress!
Thanks,
Nick
Nice
If you Havent Already , get a katana back wheel and have it powdercoated , then u can have a 150, or 160 . and even a 170
Jay_wolf:
Right now I'm sticking with stock everything except the tail section, getting it back together and running then I will start thinking about mods later.
Not much of an update, but last night I was able to break down almost everything in the rear swingarm and get it seperated to start looking at what will need to be powder coated or painted. I did hear back from the local powder coating place and they are looking at 300 for 1 color (frame and other bits I want the same charcoal color), 365 for frame and other bits charcoal and the tank a 2nd color, and around 425 if I want to do frame and bits charcoal, tank another color, and suspension black. I'm starting to think a rattle can job might be the best option as I don't think I should spend that type of cash on the powder coat as I bought the bike for less!
Anyways, here is a picture of the suspension parts I was thinking should be black. I was also looking at matching the shock to the blue I want the tank:
(http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/2676/gs500frame6hm4.jpg)
Here is the swingarm and rear rim that will be Charcoal to match the frame, and the brake caliper and brace that will be repainted black:
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4636/gs500frame7as4.jpg)
Tonight I'm hoping to get the front end tore down and picking up some paint to start the painting process!
Thanks,
Nick
then u have to get the wheel painted or powder coated again , the fact the wheel is cheap as chips ,
and i look at the stock wheel on mine , looks so bad , i have a kat wheel , just need a break disc and have it mounted, they fill out the rear
u need a wider rim with the x1 tail , jim had a 180 then a 200
Yeah eventually I will probably end up getting the bigger rear rim but thats not high on my list of things to do right now. I'm not that worried about filling the rear end up right now. I'm sure once I get it back together and start riding, I'll notice the difference but for now I'm keeping it stock.
So i finished the tear down last night and now have all the parts seperated that will need paint. I did decide that I don't want to spend $400 on powder coating so I will be cleaning the parts this weekend, and I'm hoping to get my first spray down and possibly finish the frame!
Here is the two rims, swing arm and extra bits all broken down. These will all be getting sprayed Charcoal. In the upper portion of the picture you can see suspension bits, those will be painted black and I'm thinking of painting the spring to match the tank's new color (still undecided at this point):
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5986/gs500frame8qb9.jpg)
Here are the two forks which will be going Charcoal, and a bunch of other parts that are not getting any paint:
(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8655/gs500frame9or6.jpg)
Thanks,
Nick
I thought way back when... you started the engine work that you "didn't have a place to work" lol
Quote from: notjohndavid on August 16, 2008, 05:17:58 AM
I thought way back when... you started the engine work that you "didn't have a place to work" lol
Yeah I did, but if you read back to page 10, I moved into another apartment and this one has a garage! So now I have a good bit of room to work on the bike.
4.24 am. Read through all 14 pages and just wanted to give u wraps on staying focused on the project. I hope you get the bike up and running soon and can't wait to see some more pics after the paint job.
keep up the good work!
-Roshan
I signed up just to say that this is awesome.
Thank you for all the kind words. Its progressing much slower than I would like but it'll get there eventually! Here are some pics of what got done over the weekend.
I got the rims painted and just sitting in the garage curing right now, should be able to clear coat them this weekend:
(http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/4553/gs500frame10co4.jpg)
(http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/2960/gs500frame11hx6.jpg)
I also picked up some more welding wire to finish welding the frame. Got it welded and primered:
(http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/9098/gs500frame12jo2.jpg)
I have almost everything primered (except the entire frame) and a few other bits painted black. The suspension parts are going to be charcoal:
(http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/416/gs500frame14vm3.jpg)
Here is the one fork (still trying to get the caliper disconnected from the other fork) and the swingarm that needs some more cleaning before I finish painting it:
(http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/487/gs500frame13mm9.jpg)
I probably won't have as much time to work on it this weekend as we are going on a company camping trip Friday (great excuse to miss work!) and won't be back till late Saturday. But hopefully I'll get some more paint down since most everything is downhill from now on. As always I will take pics and keep you updated!
Thanks,
Nick
For future reference, take the caliper off before taking the fork out of the triple. Taking it off before you take the wheel out is not strictly needed, but makes that a whole lot easier, too.
I used something like a short chunk of 2x4 to give the 8mm Allen wrench a smack to get those caliper mounting bolts started coming off. A relatively gentle impact.
Adding to this impossibly long post. Is that a king's rear tire? It could be a Dunlop GT501 which the kings is a clone of, but if it's kings 140/70-17 then yay! Someone else with this cheapo tire. Not the greatest but is good for it's 50-60 dollar price tag, and long lasting 10,000 miles on my last one. Hard to mount and took 3 ounces to balance but hey can't beat the price :D
I'm not sure from the pic but it looks like you painted primer on the entire rear shock? I don't know much about suspension but I don't think the chrome bar on that shock is supposed to be painted. Just a heads up. :thumb:
The rebuild looks like it's coming along really well though. Great job! :cheers:
Quote from: DoD#i on August 18, 2008, 07:07:52 PM
For future reference, take the caliper off before taking the fork out of the triple. Taking it off before you take the wheel out is not strictly needed, but makes that a whole lot easier, too.
I used something like a short chunk of 2x4 to give the 8mm Allen wrench a smack to get those caliper mounting bolts started coming off. A relatively gentle impact.
Yeah originally I planned on painting the caliper and fork as one piece but decided against it just for ease of painting. Unfortunately I have it all taken apart already and have to figure out how to get it seperated now.
Quote from: qwertydude on August 18, 2008, 07:59:27 PM
Adding to this impossibly long post. Is that a king's rear tire? It could be a Dunlop GT501 which the kings is a clone of, but if it's kings 140/70-17 then yay! Someone else with this cheapo tire. Not the greatest but is good for it's 50-60 dollar price tag, and long lasting 10,000 miles on my last one. Hard to mount and took 3 ounces to balance but hey can't beat the price :D
I have no clue what tire it is, the previous owner put it on and I haven't paid any attention to it what-so-ever. I'll look tonight if I remember and let you know!
Quote from: pronator on August 18, 2008, 08:32:34 PM
I'm not sure from the pic but it looks like you painted primer on the entire rear shock? I don't know much about suspension but I don't think the chrome bar on that shock is supposed to be painted. Just a heads up. :thumb:
The rebuild looks like it's coming along really well though. Great job! :cheers:
I actually taped off the chrome bar that slides internally with the shock so you do see paint but its on tape :thumb: but thanks for looking out!
I wasn't able to get much work in over the weekend due to a company camping trip, but I was able to fit in the first of 2 grills to cover the big open spot created by the new tail section. Sorry for the shitty pictures!
(http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2910/gs500frame15lr5.jpg)
(http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3551/gs500frame16dl5.jpg)
Thanks,
Nick
wow progress looks really good, looks unique n all. cant wait to see it finished
Thanks for the input! I wish it would just move a little quicker but it seems life has to step in and put it on a slower pace than I would like. As always as I get more progress done I will post up an update!
Thanks,
Nick
Would you be interested in selling the side covers off your old rear frame? I have one that was poorly repaired and I think it would be easier to get new ones. BTW I can't wait to see your bike finished. Great Job
I would be open to selling them for the right prices. PM me an offer and we can take it from there.
Thanks,
Nick
Wow, just realized it has been almost a month since I have updated this posting! Life has really gotten hectic lately and work has taken up a lot of time that would have been spent on the bike. Working in sales with a down economy can put a damper on any project. I don't have any updated pics to add but I do have everything painted except the tank, and about 75% of everything clear coated. I'm hoping this weekend I can finish the clear coat and slowly start putting the engine back together before thanksgiving.
I'll keep this updated as best I can but not sure when I'll make the next update.
Thanks,
Nick
Man I have really been slacking on the updating the project part. Still no excuse, life has just been hectic on all counts! Planning a wedding, work, and life has gotten in the way but I finally got around to some pics of the project over Thanksgiving weekend! As you'll see, everything is painted and ready to get reassembled:
(http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/8827/dsc02144oy0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/dsc02144oy0.jpg/1/w800.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img355/dsc02144oy0.jpg/1/)
(http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/7084/dsc02145gh9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/dsc02145gh9.jpg/1/w800.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img355/dsc02145gh9.jpg/1/)
(http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/409/dsc02146gk6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/dsc02146gk6.jpg/1/w600.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img368/dsc02146gk6.jpg/1/)
(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/989/dsc02147nf0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/dsc02147nf0.jpg/1/w800.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img354/dsc02147nf0.jpg/1/)
(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/5047/dsc02148mt5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/dsc02148mt5.jpg/1/w800.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img354/dsc02148mt5.jpg/1/)
(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/6391/dsc02149fj0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/dsc02149fj0.jpg/1/w800.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img354/dsc02149fj0.jpg/1/)
(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/246/dsc02150mj0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/dsc02150mj0.jpg/1/w800.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img354/dsc02150mj0.jpg/1/)
I still need to get the engine back together but thought I'd clear up some space in the garage by at least getting it back together. Also trying to locate a complete and unmolested wiring harness because the one I have is a complete piece of crap! Engine, and wiring harness should be the last two hurdles before getting it all completely back together!
Thanks for still looking, hopefully I'll be able to update a little more.
Nick
Looks like you've been going at this for a while.
Congrats on keeping the project going and not giving up!
Wouldn't be nearly as long if I didn't wait 2 months for any major changes! But its slowly getting there!
Thanks!
Nick
So I was finally able to secure some time/funds/energy to move forward with the bike. Over the last 2 weeks I've slowly been piecing the engine back together in hopes of having it back in the bike before January. I missed my deadline by a day or two but here are the updates!
Here is the engine as it sat minus any covering I did to keep junk/dust/debris out of the cases:
(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/5698/dsc02151lk0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Here is a shot at some of the new parts going in. I replaced the cylinders with a known/verified good set and had it honed at the machine shop. Here are the pistons cleaned up, pins, and clips:
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4177/dsc02152fq1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Here is the cylinders put on with the pistons all set. Wrist pins were probably the hardest thing in this job (considering I've never taken apart or put together anything with wrist pins) but it was easy once you got the hang of how to put them in:
(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/8564/dsc02154gu2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Here is the engine after bolting the head on, timing chain still hasn't been set yet in this pic. One word of advice, whatever it takes DO NOT let that chain fall in. I didn't have a string to tie it up out of the way and lost the chain 3 times!!! which meant I had to take it apart 3 times to get it back out!!!!!
(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/9110/dsc02157zh2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Here the engine sits on its makeshift stand (10 dollar step stool from walmart!) while viewing through the frame. I forgot how much of a pain this was to get OUT of the bike, now I'm reminded how hard this will be to get back IN the bike! Another word of advice.....ASK FOR HELP AT THIS POINT. I had no one nearby so I was stuck putting the engine in the frame ALONE!
(http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2989/dsc02169od2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
AND HERE IT IS!!!!! BACK IN THE FRAME AND BOLTED IN!!!!! You can see some of the damage to the paint from trying to fit it in, but that can be touched up no problems.
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9060/dsc02170bv5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3180/dsc02172ol1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/599/dsc02171ax2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Next up is takling the wiring harness. I'll have to extend some wires and shorten others based of the new tail and locations to mount. If anyone out there would be so kind as to take some pics for me of how the harness is ran through the frame and up into the headlight bucket I would greatly appreciate that!
Thanks for looking, comments are welcome!
Nick
Looks Great! Does it run yet?
Not yet, valve cover still needs to go on, gaskets all around, wire harness, carbs need cleaned/rebuilt and the HOPEFULLY it will be ready to run then!
Thanks,
Nick
heh good job!
i know how much a pain it is to get it out...
i just removed my engine not 2 hours ago...
and i can wait till i get to "TRY" to shoehorn a honda 750 block in there HAHAH!
Oh lord! Good luck with that!
Saw in another thread, your debating wheather or not to clean your carbs. You've already done much harder things all the way through this project. Carbs are pretty easy. Just read the tutorial on gstwin.com.
That's what I keep think but i've worked on engines before so it wasn't as scary! I've never messed with carbs so I couldn't even tell you parts or how they work! Besides the engine was broke, I couldn't have done more damage! Lol
Well a small update here. Work on the bike has slowed down yet again but this time due to a double spiral fracture of my 5th metatarsal!
(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2484/brokenfoot1abd6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4195/brokenfoot1bkv3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Which has resulted in me wearing this for the next couple weeks:
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3905/footincastrp1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
But I did spend some christmas money, and birthday money on some new parts this week:
New Brake/Clutch Levers:
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2103/brakeandclutchleversfb8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
New Exhaust Gaskets:
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1572/exhaustgasketscd4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
New Trail Tech Vapor:
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6758/vaporca2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
New Trail Tech Vapor Indicator Lights:
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/828/vaporindicatorlightsbk5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Progress will be updated as any is made!
Thanks,
Nick
Quote(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/828/vaporindicatorlightsbk5.jpg)
Wow, how to go about installing one of these!?
I just ordered it so I cant answer that question for you but I know that there has been a couple guys on the forum that have intalled them that would be able to help you.
Well I hate to say it but the brake and clutch levers do not fit. I suppose thats what I get for going against my better judgement and taking at face value the oppinion of another GSTWINER :icon_confused: :sad:
Everything has arrived in the mail, and hopefully I will get some time this weekend to install some of the parts. I finally got around to making a list of everything that still needs to be done and I was surprised at how little was left! I can finally start seeing the end of the build!
Thanks,
Nick
Hey guys and gals,
Been awhile since my last update but a broken foot has really slowed the work down (even more than normal) but here is a small update. Finally got around to fixing the wire issues from the PO with a new wire harnes and some wire extensions.
(http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/8459/dsc02180zu2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Also altered the turn signals to mount to the X1 subframe, and mounted the X1 brake light. Still trying to decide on shortening the stocks but I'm thinking visibility is better than shorter signals.
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3169/dsc02187jm8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
I also welded in 2 of the 4 mounts for the lower belly pan that I purchased from Mach1 on here, will get pics up once I have all 4 tabs welded in and belly pan mounted. I know I still have some work to do, but I'll update when I get something else done!
Thanks,
Nick
Not sure if anyone is still even looking at this, as no one replies anymore but here is yet another update!
Sorry its taken so long, and not much work was completed but its not the easiest thing to work on a motorcycle when your hobbling around like this:
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5793/americanvsdesertspirt15oq4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Finished the belly pan mounting tabs and got it installed, just needs repainted to match the color scheme (still undecided if it'll go black like the rest of the bike, or carbon like some parts I painted like the shifters and the top triple):
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7329/americanvsdesertspirt15za6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4199/americanvsdesertspirt15yg6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Changed to a newer model turnsignals, shorter stalks look much better IMHO:
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8527/dsc02188ld9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
And I've started making the exhaust bracket to hang the exhaust:
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7070/dsc02189su4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Thanks for looking, input is always appreciated!
Nick
Looks sharp!
Looks awesome! Id go with a carbon color for your paint but either will look good. Glad you changed the signals. those ones look much better.
Thanks for the replies, a couple pages back there is the top triple I repainted and that's the color I'm thinking the tank and belly pan might end up.
I vote white, but that's just me. I really like your bike, its an amazing transformation.
If you have the budget you should get different foot pegs, those chunky stock ones are throwing off the beautiful lines of the bike.
I'm not to sure about the white, but I agree with the pegs. I don't know which set I'll go with but they were part of the plans before I'm finished!
Thanks for the suggestions! Keep em coming!
Nick
So I have another small update. After a month long switch out after ordering the wrong vapor, I finally got the right one in the mail! So I spent this weekend making templates from the stock gauge pod and finally got it mounted:
(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4431/vapormounting1.jpg)
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6123/vapormounting2.jpg)
Next up, waiting on the F model windshield to show up USPS. Hopefully I'll be able to use the mounting clip that was included with the Vapor!
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5101/vapormounting5.jpg)
Unfortunately I've never even seen an F model in real life so I don't know how the windshield will fit so this is just wishful thinking! As always, comments are welcome!
Thanks,
Nick
Looking very cool. I'm interested to see how your windshield turns out. That gauge cluster is looking cool.
Thanks for the feed back! Hopefully the windscreen will be here today or tomorrow so I can start mocking it up soon!
Looking awesome. What a progression from a year ago. You're inspiring me to keep going on my restoration. I'll be starting a thread about it soon... Just need to find the time!
:thumb:
Thank you for the kind words! I've been getting a lot of flak at work because its been taking so long to finish but they don't understand that this is a hobby not a job and I enjoy taking my time and getting this done without a) breaking my spirit working on the bike b) breaking the bank buying parts, and c) not ruining my relationship considering I'm getting married in less than 8 months!
I just seen that the windscreen arrived in the USPS office this morning at 4:26 am! Hopefully it'll be there when I get home from work tonight!
Can anybody shred some light on my dillema? I originally thought that the fairing stay bracket was what the windscreen bolted to, but now I know that the windscreen bolts to the upper fairing which bolts to the bracket. My thought is that I could buy an upper fairing and cut it down the crease by the mirrors and wrap it around the headlight. Maybe something similar to this:
(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6039/001bf.jpg)
My concern is that the fairing is to wide for the 7 inch stock headlight, and that the bracket holding the fairing would stick out to much. Anybody have any input?
Thanks,
Nick
I'm all for taking time on hobby projects. The longer you take, the slower you spend money, which is good...
As for the windscreen, if you want one to look like that, you might do better just getting a different windscreen... There are windscreens with designs very similar to your picture that you could just buy... If you want to go make a bracket for that one, go right ahead, but you might save yourself a lot of time by getting a different screen...
that was a thought I had but I haven't been able to find one that has the plastic to the sides with a bracket underneath to attach mirrors to. Besides, I don't want to spend alot of money and I think I can get the parts to make it for under $100 and I have no clue how much a windscreen would cost if I was able to even find one.
This is gunna turn out f@#$ing mean man, keep it up, screens can be found on NationalCycle, its an American jobbie (i'm in Australia) i got my flyscreen from them, but its not what ur looking for i dont think. Check out the site,theres some good stuff there :)
Thanks for the input but I think I'm going to pick up an F model upper fairings and bracket and modify it to work for my application. I'm pretty set on that idea unless I could find 100% what I wanted in a premade fairing.
Thanks,
Nick
Yeah man, go for it, if it comes out well (which judging by the rest of your work it will) it'll look slick mate,
Keep up the good work :)
Lol and if it doesn't I'll just throw it away and start over!
Yeah, i guess so then, haha. Have you seen the Ducati Monster screens? They look alright on the GS, might not be as sporty as having the F model screen, but its worth a look, theres a pic of a stock GS with the Duke screen in the gallery somewhere if your interested
Aren't they solid? I wanted something clear and to be able to mount mirrors too.
They are available with clear (or smoke) screens. But I don't think I have seen them with mirrors attached. They are probably slightly narrow, but you could probably fab some way to mount mirrors to them.
Yeah I figured I wasn't going to find exactly what I wanted and would need to end up fabbing something so I just bought the F model upper and am going to modify it to use the stock mirrors.
I also got the clip on's installed tonight but a bolt broke that holds the handle bars in, and one of the bars is bent more than I originally thought. >:( >:( >:(
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7360/clipons.jpg)
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5769/cliponsbolt.jpg)
I also paid another member for the fairing pieces today so hopefully by next weekend I can start mocking those up!
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5905/fairingpieces.jpg)
Thanks,
Nick
I like the idea of your screen, but I can't imagine how you're going to mount it. Please do pics when you do / don't get it trimmed and fit up. I'm looking for good (read: cheap) ideas for a screen too, so I'm watching this.
The rest of your build is looking great! :thumb:
Well my plan is to take the stock fairing mounting and cut it so I would use the section that the mirrors attach to down to right before that 90 degree bend. Then I'll weld in my own cross back and mounting tabs will probably mount on the headlight ears. This makes sense in my head but the best laid plans are always throw away when you get the parts in front of you!
Thanks,
Nick
so looking at the pic you posted with the fairings are you cutting it down like where the white strip of graphics are?
Yeah not sure if I'm going to be keeping the graphics or cutting inside the graphics.
if it was me before i cut anything get some green painters tape and tape off the section you want to cut tape a pic then tape off your other idea and take a pic then you can look at both ways and see what one you like the best before you ever cut a thing.
yeah, that was my original plan. I'm just antsy to get the parts today!
yeah i know how it is waiting on parts i have a set or FZR600 rear sets that im waiting on so i cna pull the original ones off the bike. your bike is going to look sweet i can almost see the fairing/windscreen and headlight mounted up already. :thumb:
So I got some small cutting and fitting done over the weekend, but haven't gotten it any further than first mock up. I still need to alter the fairing stay bracket to mount the mirrors so we'll see how that goes. Here are 2 crappy camera pics I took on the way to work this morning:
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5704/gs50049.jpg)
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2361/gs50048.jpg)
Thanks,
Nick
looking good man
Thanks, I really think its going to fit really well once its done. Its not going to be as straight forward as I thought.
i think i just bought a new project bike ill let you know if i do. its going to be a sweet little bike tho....for the wife.
I just found this thread and spent the last day reading it. You have done a TON of work over the past 3/4 of a year, and most of it wasn't on the engine! At first it seemed to me you were going to get it running with minimum expense and work, but now it's almost completely transformed, and your reluctance to get more involved has disappeared! I could feel your confidence growing with every page!
Great accomplishment. All this while holding down a job, proposing in Paris, planning a wedding, and breaking your foot! Excellent strategy and congrats on the outcome, by the way. However, by doing so you set the bar pretty high for future vacations!
Unless I missed something you didn't say how you broke your foot. Dropped the engine on it? :thumb:
Bill,
Thanks for the compliments! Its always easy to think you can do something till its time to get into it and do it. I needed that kick provided here to say "well its already messed up and I can't do more damage to it!" So I tore it apart and figured I might as well make it mine while I'm here rebuilding it!
It originally was just going to be a commuter bike but after I moved and got more confidence I started making bigger and bigger plans and it has slowly transformed into what it is now. I've learned ALOT on the way and suggest this as one of the best ways to learn what you are doing. Am I an expert? HELL NO, and still far from it. But do I feel confident enough to at least TRY something? Without a doubt.
I technically didn't propose in Paris, sure we were on top of the Eiffel Tower, but it was the one in Las Vegas not Europe! That would be next to impossible to top but she would LOVE to get back to Paris since she spent a summer in Germany and visited it often.
I actually broke my 5th metatarsal while playing softball for our adult coed league. I was rounding third and stumbled before the base and landed just wrong which caused a double spiral fracture. Sunday was 8 weeks since the break and I'm now out of my cast/boot and up to running again. I played softball the last 2 weeks and even joined an indoor soccer league on Fridays and barely have any pain in the foot now.
The engine was VERY hard to get back in, especially by myself! I'd recommend asking for help for anyone taking out or putting in the engine as I came VERY close to dropping it and causing all kinds of medical problems.
Update:
Still working out the mounting for the fairing bracket but I got it started a little last night. Got most of it cut down and I think I'm going to make a plate that bolts to the headlight ears and then up to each mirror. Seems to make sense in my head but till I actually cut it and tack it together I'm not 100%.
Thanks!
Nick
Oh, so there's TWO Eiffel Towers now? :dunno_white: I gotta get out more!
I haven't removed and re-installed an engine since 1979, and that was a 125 two-stroke, but if I were doing it now, especially alone, I'd take a piece of wood, bore a hole part way through so it'll sit good on my floor jack, and jack the engine up into the frame, working from right to left of course since the right down portion of our frame comes off. :thumb:
That's my good idea for the day. Sorry I was late to the party!
I can't wait until your bike is running again, but something tells me with all the softball and soccer it's gonna be awhile!
Unfortunately the engine doesn't just drop straigt down and the move to the side. You have to tip it forward and to the left while going down and right. Really horribly designed actually.
Yup, 2 eiffel towers. One in Paris and one in Vegas!
Thanks,
Nick
Still watching for your windscreen mount. When you do get it bolted up, don't forget some pics!
Thanks, eh?
Sorry, the weather was amazing in Phx all weekend so I was outside and didn't work on the bike at all. Brackets aren't as straight forward as I originally thought so I think I'm just going to use a flat piece of steel and 1/2 inch round bar up from the old mirror mounts for the fairing to bolt onto. I tried to run it to the headlight ears but it just wasn't fitting properly.
So I finally spent some time back in the garage and got one of my windscreen mounts tacked together. I'm currently training for a 5k so time in the garage has been few and far between. And on a side note, while grinding the mount I made, I managed to set my crotch on fire! I gave new meaning to fire crotch last night! Now back to the pics.
Here is the mount:
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9540/img00065.jpg)
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8160/img00067a.jpg)
Here is a side view of it mounted. I used longer bolts on the headlight ears and its between the headlight ear and the bracket that attaches to the forks:
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7162/img00071f.jpg)
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9678/img00069i.jpg)
And I used to of the stock fairing brackets to help mount to the gauge face:
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5893/img00072d.jpg)
And here is the windscreen mounted (still only one side bracket is made):
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1731/img00074d.jpg)
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/459/img00073t.jpg)
Open to any feedback!
Thanks,
Nick
i think its goin to look great once your done with it keep up the great work. oh yeah are you goin to use stock F mirrors now with this setup?
Yeah I will, otherwise the windscreen would have been so much easier to mount. I had to make sure the mount was sturdy enough so it would hold the mirrors as well.
Didnt realise this build untill just now. I might be using your idea on the speedo/revs for the vapor. keep up the good work :cheers:
Thanks! I know it takes awhile for me to update but I also was just let go from my job on tuesday so now updates might be even fewer and far between until I start working again! I might set aside some time each week just to get away from the job search and get in the garage to work off some steam but my main concern at this point is to get back to work and help support my bride to be!
Good on ya, just get that bike fixed up :D
So I got some work done over the weekend and am slowly getting towards an ending point!
Here are the 2 upper fairing mounts hanging after a coat of paint:
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/875/tailsection012.jpg)
Here is the headlight bucket that I welded a piece to so that the upper fairing sits flush behind:
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1441/tailsection006.jpg)
I'm also working towards a cover for the seat to turn it into a solo seat. Here is the mock up of what I'm looking for:
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5647/tailsection013.jpg)
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5115/tailsection017.jpg)
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2572/tailsection014.jpg)
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/346/tailsection015.jpg)
Thanks! Any input is appreciated!
Nick
Shes coming right along man. :cheers: Keep up the good work. Are you glassing the tail so its only a solo tail? i like how its coming together.
I'll probably end up using sheet metal instead of glass since I'm not that good with fiberglass. Plus I have some sheet metal in the garage I could use and wouldn't have to go out and buy anything. I don't have any fiberglass materials.
I'm still debating on if I should make a small storage area out of the tail, although it would probably only hold a wallet and insurance information its so small lol.
I can't wait to see how it turns-out. I admire your courage to do all that body work. It's a pain in the ass and it's exacting. I'm a little jealous. My bike will always have a dual seat because my g/f often wants to ride with me! I love the look of a solo seat but I can't have one!
I would give up the solo seat in a heart beat if I thought my fiance would ride with me only once! She is just so afraid she won't even think about riding!
I feel you on the using what you have part. If i had metal i would be doing a few things different but i dont have anywhere i came do the metal work so i went with glass on my stuff. Thats too bad that shes so scared. my wife had never been on a bike before i got mine. i got her on it for just a little 2 mile ride and she fell in love with it. Get her to just go around the block once i bet she would love it too. I cant hardly get outta the drive way now without her. And im now building her her own bike.lol
That solo seat is going to look awesome! Can't wait to see that finished up.
The bike is looking good! Is that a buell taillight? It looks IDENTICAL to my ducati monster taillight.
Thanks for all the compliments! I just hope its not to big of a project!
Charlie - yes that's a Buell X1 tail, seat, and tail light.
man front where you started and where your at now this are just the last few little finishing details. :bowdown:
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on April 08, 2009, 08:44:57 AM
Thanks for all the compliments! I just hope its not to big of a project!
Charlie - yes that's a Buell X1 tail, seat, and tail light.
That's weird. Check this out. Ordered this tail light brand new for a ducati monster (can't remember what year).
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y263/bugpower72/Suzuki%20GS500/DSCN3186.jpg)
That looks exactly the same? I wonder if its interchangeable parts then?
I don't know, they look slightly different to me. :dunno_white:
Looking good :thumb:
I've just bought a heap of stuff off ebay for my streetfighter. Ive heard a few bad things about the Demon Style Headlight Fairing but it looks awesome so its worth the risk. Still have to pick a good set of mirrors. Looking at bicycle ones but not sure.
Now hurry up and get to the part about which model Vapor you bought..... :D
If you go back a couple pages it explains what model vaypor you need. Just make sure its not the one with coolant temp gauge, and uses your spark plug for the temp gauge. Then there are two sizes for your spark plug. Go back a couple pages and read all the posts about when I first got the vaypor.
why did i not check this thread out til now? :dunno_white: anyway the bike is looking good i love the X1 tail, i wanna hack mine off now lol hows the job search going? hopefully good, i'm sure you'll find somethin soon. congrats on the engagement as well! my wife and i have been together 2 years since march and thinkin back to just before the wedding makes me remember how crazy stressful it was, we argued over anything and everything but as soon as she started down the aisle........i cant explain to you the feeling that swept over me, like overwhelming happiness and contentment (and even that understates it). my life before her seems like a past life, i couldn't ever imagine life without her. anyway, dont mean to go soft on you lol congrats again man on the engagement and the bike :thumb:
oh! i ran across this as well, thought it might be something you could try making for your vaypor thing...........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/drumsnotjames/GSGHeadlightBracket2.jpg)
not what the arrows are pointing out but that bracket that comes out from under the triple and holds the elec gauge, don't know possible it is but its just an idea........
Nuts to Trailtech, too much work and nobody has it in stock. Im buying a new KOSO RX-2 gauge next week. It costs an arm and a leg but im sure it will be worth it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHEeMTR3tcc&feature=related
Check it out :D
that gauge is awesome. how much are they?
Thats a really sweet gauge but to much money for doing the same things only looking cooler. I bought mine from ebay with no problems, just email them before to make sure its the correct model your looking for. There are HUNDREDS on ebay, just take 5 minutes and search.
Well i checked ebay and sent emails to people but the best i got was "i can have it in stock in a few months". I need something in the next 2 weeks. I just like the colour change on the KOSO gauges :D
I'm having quite a bit of difficulty with the rear solo seat cover and am about to scrap the entire idea alltogether! Anyone have any suggestions on making something like this or tips?
Thanks,
Nick
Wow Good luck on this. I purchased a v65 Magna that sat for about 2 years under a pool tarp, My mechanic said to take out the plug, fill the cylinder with PB Blaster and let it sit, then look and see if it drained out then refill. after a day or two then try to start it. The PB Blaster is a catalyst ans will soak into anything it touches and lube it up, ie; pistn rings to wall contact points, valve to guide, etc. It worked for mine, it smoked like a freight train but eventually straightened out and it runs great now. Sold though, looking for a Gs500. Simple, inexpensive, not high maintenance if taken care of... Good luck
Sachsaca,
I know its 19 pages but you might want to read through before posting, the engine has been torn down and I replaced the cylinders, and rehoned and reassembled everything. Haven't tried starting it yet as I keep working on other projects with it but theoretically I should just need to check out the carbs and she should fire right up. *CROSSES FINGERS*
On a side note, I decided that fiberglass was the best option with the solo seat and here are some pictures of it in the process:
Here is the shape I'm after:
(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7017/gssoloseat12.jpg)
(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4527/gssoloseat13.jpg)
Here it is ready to be covered in fiberglass:
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5015/gssoloseat15.jpg)
This is after 6 layers, I bet I could stand on it!
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9688/gssoloseat16.jpg)
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5205/gssoloseat17.jpg)
Here it is on the seat:
(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7569/gssoloseat18.jpg)
And here it is on the bike!
(http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/7444/gssoloseat19.jpg)
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5180/gssoloseat20.jpg)
As always, any input is appreciated!
Thanks,
Nick
WOW, the bike is looking good so far. Not so sure about the headlight fairing and the mirrors. I think its just a bit of overkill, but then again i perfer the naked/streetfighter look. Without the headlight i reckon you have one of the best looking bikes here. :D
man looks pretty sick. you did good for learning how to do this over the net from an unnamed guy :thumb: cant wait to see it all sanded down and painted.
its a VERY SLOW PROCESS lol waiting for things to dry and having to redo them multiple times but I think I'll slowly get it to where I'm happy and thats all that matters!
So I got the sanding and first coat of paint down on the solo seat today:
(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8747/gssoloseat21.jpg)
Here it is mounted, my plan is to throw a leather strap around the solo seat about 2/3 of the way from the rear:
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4121/gssoloseat23.jpg)
Showing the GStwins love!
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5742/gssoloseat29.jpg)
Thanks,
Nick
looks great man. :thumb: See even a guy standing in his garage in AZ with nothing but sandles and a pair of shorts can make something cool
Lol and I'm still itching like crazy! Thanks for your help!
Nick
np bud glad i could help and sorry about not telling you about pants and long sleeves on the glass sanding. :oops:
this is looking doooooope!! the belly looks awesome!
love the grey and black too. Any chance you'll be losing the windscreen?
Not a chance in hell. I love the windscreen, and its probably my favorite part on the bike short of the X1 tail!
I will be honest and say I had my doubts to start with but ....but now its really starting to look good now. It looks factory. The only critical comment I have and I hope you dont mind me saying it is the join between the rear subframe and the frame itself, it just doesnt seem to flow, but the colours and the lines really work. I think the tailhump has made the difference.
Your are going to have something special that catches eyes and is very desirable when you are done.
Gets my top vote for next years GS5 calender...(if it happens) :thumb:
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on April 27, 2009, 01:45:14 PM
Not a chance in hell. I love the windscreen, and its probably my favorite part on the bike short of the X1 tail!
thats too bad O0
Louie:
hahah I hear it all the time. The GS is supposed to be a naked bike, but I love a small fairing so I'm torn!
Sledge:
I really appreciate the feedback, sometimes its easier for others to see problems in ones work. Can you be a little more specific about where you are talking? I'm not following where you feel that the frame and the tail dont meet? But seriously, thanks for the feedback!
Nick
meh, it probably keeps the upper body a little less fatigued i'm sure. When I look at my bike I like the nakedness... sometimes when I ride I wish there was a little something between me the rocks kicked up from cager tires. >:(
Awesome! Love that seat cover. Great work.
Thank you!
So I got some work completed, and am slowly crossing things off the list. Took her out of the garage for some updated pics of how she sits right now.
Finished the solo seat, and added a leather strap and some cool death spikes!
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1498/gs500211.jpg)
Got the dash painted and Vaypor mounted, just needs to be wired in:
(http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1025/gs500205.jpg)
Front Shot:
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3269/gs500210.jpg)
Side Shot:
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/710/gs500209.jpg)
As always, input is appreciated!
Thanks,
Nick
I recommend carburetors... :)
Lol yeah those are coming at a later time. They need cleaned or inspected and I just can't get around to doing it.
Nick
Oh man, this thing is a beast! Amazing job on the solo tail, I like the detail work. That bike looks like it eats barbed wire and other GS500's for breakfast.
It could use some cool bar-ends.
Thanks! I am really happy with the way its slowly turning out, now just to get it running!
well i must say for learning over the internet i think the solo tail turned out great. cant wait to see yours next to mine :thumb:
It is in no way perfect, but I'm extremely happy with it! Besides I had some great internet teachers lol
:thumb: just buy me a beer when you see me
Sounds like a deal to me!
I love what you've done with the bike!
I especially drool over, the side view foto.
What about a side plastic where the tail meets the frame?
Mmmm... I can't decide if I am for or against... :dunno_white:
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1658/97947001.jpg)
I personally love that mesh. Adds kind of a mad max effect.
She looks pretty mean. Very cool! It does look like the paint on the tank looks a little inconsistent tho. Are you going to paint it?
I really like the mesh too, not sure why buy I really like how that came out.
The tank is weird, certain angles it looks spotty and others not. Its spray paint so I'm ok with it, I'm not 100% sure its staying that color.
Nick
I love the mesh too.
I meant the lower point where the tail bolts to the frame.
Here are the photos, side by side, to see what I mean.
Original
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/710/gs500209.jpg)
With plastic cover
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1658/97947001.jpg)
That part doesn't really bother me, when I originally altered the frame to mount the tail I had plans to smooth it out a bit but after getting it mounted I wasn't that concerned with it! lol
Nick
oh wow, i didnt even notice until you put them side by side. lol.
Wow, cool looking bike! You have certainly made it stand apart from other GSs. I like it.
thanks fred! My main goal was to see if I could throw together in my head what is the best of each section of the bike and mash it all together as one lol
Very inspiration work, love the progress you've made. Did you keep any reciepts or tabs on how much this project has cost you? I read in the previous pages, you chose not to paid $400 for a shop to paint the frame, etc. How did you go about painting the parts? Rattle-can spray paint?
I'm in a similiar situation, have a 1989 GS, seized the motor a few years ago due to low engine oil. Brought a 1992 replacement motor off eBay, but never went any further. After reading all 21 pages, I'm tempted to finally grow some balls and start this project. First, I must clean up the garage and get some work space. :icon_rolleyes:
What types of tools would recommend? What kinds parts to have handle?
Again, thanks for the great read, and keep up the superb work! :cheers:
Thank for your kind words! My biggest piece of advice is to just do it, especially if the bike is already messed up. Its only money and you can't make it any worse lol Thats where I started from, and even if its not 100% what I want it to be its still a great project in my eyes.
Tools....hmmm, I really just have basic tools. Wrenches, screw drivers, sockets, and torque wrench. Might need some feelers for internal parts if your rebuilding, and I'd recommend picking up a manual as an assistant in tearing apart things. If I needed a new tool while working I just picked one up.
I haven't kept track of the little things I had to pick up for the project and lost my original spreadsheet where I was keeping track about 8 months ago lol so sorry not to sure what I have spent.
As for paint, I just spray painted things. I know that I'll have to touch it up as I go, but thats whats nice about .99 cent spray cans, its not going to break the bank to touch up anything!
Nick
A-mazing! I hope it runs as smooth as it looks.
Too bad your future wife won't ride with you, (that was how I got hooked, he took me for a ride and I loved it) but the solo looks good. Have you considered making it frame-color?
You give me hope that I could do some "minor" in comparison work on mine too. Or at least an attempt at my own solo seat with zero fiberglass skills. What did you use for your "mold"? It looked like cardboard and a plastic bag? (If this has been beat to death in another thread, please ignore newbie.)
Well I have been working on other bits so after the rebuild I never even started it so I don't know how it runs! lol I should be getting it started soon as I'm running out of other mods and just need to clean the carbs.
I debated painting the solo seat black but I felt it was to much black and I wanted to use the same color as the tank to show off the lines of the bike and tail a little better.
The mold was made from duck tape, cardboard, a couple plastic bags, and a piece of metal to make sure the piece closest to my back stood verticle. I learned over the net from Josh, and its really not that hard if your patient and willing to learn from your mistakes.
Thanks,
Nick
Been awhile since I updated so figured I would post some pictures!
ON MAY 16TH 2009........SHE HAS STARTED!!!!!!
Last weekend was the first time the rebuilt engine turned over and after some tinkering she ROARED to life. The carbs have some gremlins that need worked out but I'm new to them so it'll be a slow process. Also add in the fact I'm moving 2000 miles to Ohio in 10 days and it might be awhile before she ever sees the road.
Found out the battery has died after sitting since last June, no big surprise there. Also has an oil leak out of the right side cover, forgot to replace the gasket after dropping the cover. Have one sitting in the garage so no big deal.
Carb issues are a pain, and those are being detailed in another thread so search for that if you think you can help!
Finally got the Vaypor guages all wired in and had to replace the spedometer gear in the front tire. Luckily the spacer on a Katana fits perfectly!
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5810/katanaspacer.jpg)
Things left to do:
1.) Fix carb gremlins
2.) replace right side gasket/fix oil leaks
3.) oil change before hitting road
4.) final torque of all bolts
5.) drill out bars for new bar ends
6.) final paint touch up
I remember when this list took up 2 entire pages typed in size 12 font and its now down to 6 lines? WOW.
Thanks for looking!
Nick
Congrats! :woohoo:
Glad to hear it runs after all you've been through. Good luck moving =)
Impressive! You've got grit.
If you don't mind me aski, where'd you get the levers that didn't fit. I just got some and the look just like those
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on January 23, 2009, 10:21:57 PM
Well I hate to say it but the brake and clutch levers do not fit. I suppose thats what I get for going against my better judgement and taking at face value the oppinion of another GSTWINER :icon_confused: :sad:
Everything has arrived in the mail, and hopefully I will get some time this weekend to install some of the parts. I finally got around to making a list of everything that still needs to be done and I was surprised at how little was left! I can finally start seeing the end of the build!
Thanks,
Nick
Wow, its been quite awhile since I've been on here! No new update on the bike but I'm back in Ohio, married, working, and back on my feet. The weather is starting to break so I'm catching the bug to start working again so the GS might be coming out of storage so I can finish her up and actually ride her! Progress will be slow, but hopefully it won't be almost 9 months again before I post!
Nick
Looking forward to it, Nick!
Still haven't had the chance to relocate the bike from storage at the parents barn to my apartment in Dublin, OH. They work second shift, and I work first so our schedules don't usually match and I have to use a moving truck that I can borrow from my apartment to get it the 45 miles to Dublin.
I'm also now expecting to be a father on October 29th, so this might hinder progress as well! Hopefully soon I'll be able to get it started up again!
My parents were able to bring the bike into town from storage for me on Monday, and I'm going to get the bike to bring it to Dublin tonight! I can't wait to start working on this again!
let me know when you get it riding, I'll come roll with you. 513 ftw.
Finally got the bike down to my apartment in Dublin. Met my neighbor for the first time after he sold his 96 GS on Saturday! Got title situated finally, and got plates too! Set the float heights within specs and I......
RODE IT FOR THE FIRST TIME!!!!!!
Still have some oil leaks that need taken care of, should probably check valve clearances when I fix the leaks too. But most pressing is the hesitation upon accelleration. When I first blip the throttle, it almost wants to die. But if I turn the throttle and hold it, then the bike will eventually accellerate. I have the carbs set at 3.5 turns out, and I believe everything inside them is stock. Any ideas?
Its been sitting a while, pull the carbs and give them a good clean, check hoses and strainer, air filter then start from there.
I can't imagine they are dirty, there has been no gas in them for a year. The bike was started twice in AZ then all the gas was drained and bike was ran till it stalled and the bike was put in storage for the last year while we relocated back to Ohio. Could there be anything else that would cause this I could check before tearing them back apart?
I also noticed that the exhaust has 4 or 5 holes drilled in the rear baffel (spelling? Is that what its even called?). When looking from the rear of the bike straight into the muffler, the holes are drilled around the center pipe that comes out in the center of the exhaust.
1.) could this cause the jetting to be off which would then make the bike hesitate?
2.) what should the proper setting be for stock intake, holes in exhaust?
I have a really fast/cheap adjustment option for your exhaust...
Campbell's soup (or another can the same diameter) and a hose clamp. Works for me.
The fit is so fine that I did have to peel the rim off the end of the can to get it on the pipe.
Restriction easily adjusted with a nail (or a new can if you use the nail too much). Nine with a 16 penny nail is what I'm running (6 was somewhat choked). As far as I know, stock jets. Certainly stock airbox/filter.
(http://gstwins.com/photogallery/albums/userpics/18510/SoupCan.png)
Once painted, it looks fine.
(http://gstwins.com/photogallery/albums/userpics/18510/BikeRedR.JPG)
However, I don't know that your symptoms are caused by the exhaust drilling. My exhaust had the whole plate that's been drilled on yours chopped right out. It was cold-blooded as heck, and loud, but once warmed up I don't recall any hesitation as such. It is much more ridable this way. But perhaps you never really got it warmed up, in which case the excessive cold-bloodedness might be the hesitation you are getting?
I actually don't mind the holes in the exhaust as its just slightly louder than my neighbors stock GS. I'm just worried about the holes affecting the jetting in the carbs and want to see what the easy solution would be for setting the carbs to adjust for the exhaust and solve the hesitation when first rolling on the throttle.
Thanks though!
This is way too legit not not be noticed by more forum members... that my just be my opinion but WOW!!! nice article UT