I recently replaced my chain and sprockets at the end of 2014 and am already seeing a lot of stretching. I decreased my front sprocket to 14 teeth for quicker off-the-line accel. I kept the rear sprocket at the standard 39 teeth. I also bought a D.I.D. chain after hearing they seem to be decent quality. I went with the standard roller chain which doesn't have O or X rings (the high prices got to me).
Here are the links to what I have:
Front Sprocket: http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/7787/i/jt-520-front-countershaft-sprocket (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/7787/i/jt-520-front-countershaft-sprocket)
Rear Sprocket: http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/7704/pr/JT-520-Steel-Rear-Sprocket (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/7704/pr/JT-520-Steel-Rear-Sprocket)
Chain: http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/5553/i/did-520-standard-roller-chain (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/5553/i/did-520-standard-roller-chain)
I've ridden ~400 miles so far and lube the chain after every ~110 miles with DuPont Teflon Chain-Saver.
My rides are usually between home and school (~100 miles) and it's on the I-5 between San Diego and Los Angeles so I hardly travel below 75mph, high end at 90mph and an average speed between the two, and that is just to keep up with the flow of traffic. I'm also ~220 lb so my girl doesn't have the easiest of jobs.
I have already tightened the chain once and it has since gone from about 1" of play to about 2.5 inches. Reading up on some other posts, I now realize I should have started closer to 1.5 inches.
Has anybody else had similar experiences? I didn't read every single review of the D.I.D. chain earlier, but now that I have, some people have had bad experiences. Yet those were on a 650cc duel sport which is much torqier.
What I guess I'm really asking is, do any of you have suggestions for a high quality, strong chain that will last? I'll have to ignore my cheap heart and go for something that I'm not afraid of snapping on the highway.
Thanks for reading my book of a question. :thumb:
Not a good idea to skimp on something that can potentually take your life,particularly at those speeds.
Now i'v gotten off my very very high horse :icon_rolleyes: that amount of stretch seems a little excessive;chains do stretch a small amount initially......keep a check on it.
20-30mm play(at the tightest point) is what the book recommends.
I have also found a Scottoiler & Laser chain aligner to be great chain tools.
DID are usually pretty good... sure it's chain stretch?.. not bolt tightness letting the wheel sneak forward again?
Yep...I agree with Janx...sometimes, after you put on a new chain...things "settle"...it's not chain stretch...it just settles...requires one adjustment real soon....once you do that it should stay for quite a long time...
You can determine whether it was actual chain stretch, by measuring the length of say 10 links...or better, twenty...and see if that measures more than "the new" spec...
If the chain length per link is still "tight" then you know something slipped or settled.
Do you check chain slack with the bike on the side stand?
If you set the chain slack with the bike on the center stand...you made the chain way too tight...and if you rode on it, you certainly overstressed everything!
DID is a quality chain...should not have this problem...I use x ring however....more $$$ but quality...
Is there any chance this was a "knock off" counterfeit chain???
Cookie
Quote from: Janx101 on April 05, 2015, 03:33:23 AM
DID are usually pretty good... sure it's chain stretch?.. not bolt tightness letting the wheel sneak forward again?
See guide below from "Renthal"
Measuring 16 links should give 10"....
If it measures more than 10.2" ...you chain is "stretched" too much...(this is for non o ring chains)
Cookie
During use a chain will stretch (i.e. the pins will wear causing extension of the chain). To measure how much a chain has stretched, put the motorcycle in gear and rotate the rear wheel to tension the top strand of the chain. Measure accurately (ideally with a vernier) 16 links, counting both roller and pin links. If the length of the measured 16 links is greater than the maximum acceptable length given in the table below then the chain should no longer be used. These figures assume a 2% maximum allowable extension for non 'O'-ring chain and a 1% maximum extension for 'O'-ring chain.
Maximum Acceptable Lengths - 520 chains
Original Chain Pitch - 5/8" / 15.875mm
Non 'O'-ring chain - 10.2" / 259.0mm
'O'-ring chain - 10.1" / 256.5mm
Using a chain which has been stretched more than the above maximum allowance causes the chain to ride up the teeth of the sprocket. This causes damage to the tips of the chainwheels teeth, as the force transmitted by the chain is transmitted entirely through the top of the tooth, rather than the whole tooth. This results in severe wearing of the chainwheel.
Thanks for replies.
Janx101 and twocool, I think you guys are right. The chain measures 10" dead on. What would you recommend I do, add some locktight or add another nut or ... ?
On a semi-related note, the alignment to get my chain straight has caused the left and right chain adjustment washers to be a tic different between the two sides of the rear swing-arm. I'll post some pictures to show what I mean. To check for chain straightness, I use a handheld laser and place it on the rear sprocket, pointing along the chain towards front sprocket. You can see in the last picture that things are lined up pretty well, or so I think (I readjusted the chain yesterday and haven't ridden since).
Left Side: i.imgur.com/cN6cObo (http://i.imgur.com/cN6cObo)
Right Side: i.imgur.com/VPjLggM (http://i.imgur.com/VPjLggM)
"Laser Guided" chain adjustment: i.imgur.com/cpGmR5F (http://i.imgur.com/cpGmR5F)
What do you think, am I using the wrong method for checking straightness, is my right washer a little too bent out of shape? The bolts for adjustment are different by ~1/16" BUT the bottoms of bolts are slanted so it is not possible to get an accurate measurement from there.
Don't go by the marks on the swing arm...these are good for initial rough alignment only ...your laser is the way to go, for good true alignment.
The adjusters at the end of the swing arms should keep the wheel from sliding forward in the slots...make sure they have no space or slack when you tighten down the axle nuts...
If you tighten the axle nuts to the specified torque...trust me...they won't come loose...no need for loc tite...
Plus your axle has the cotter pin for even added safety...(many USA bikes just have a locking nut with no cotter pin)...
Sometimes the chain will get tighter or looser when you torque down the axle nut...So set the chain tension adjusters first with the axle nut loose...get the chain slack as per spec...then as you begin to tighten the axle nut to spec., keep checking to see that the chain slack stays where you want it...you may have to re-set the adjusters to compensate.
Remember....the chain slack is checked while the bike is on the SIDE STAND......
If you adjust it properly on the side stand, and then you go and check it later on the center stand...it will appear too slack...........so always on the side stand...(with the bikes own weight on the suspension)
I bet if you go through the whole chain tension and wheel alignment procedure once more....probably put a 1/6 or 1/3 turn on the adjusters...you're gonna get the proper chain slack, and it will stay for a good long time..
The washer on the right side is kind of beat up....I've replaced mine once, and hammered them back into shape in a vise many times...I try to keep them from turning while tightening the axle nut...not always easy to do...but if they try to turn, the bent-over tab hits the swing arm and bends out of shape.....Really....you don't need those tabs...a round washer would work fine too....just use laser for alignment..
Cookie
Cookie
Quote from: cpaiin on April 05, 2015, 12:01:13 PM
Thanks for replies.
Janx101 and twocool, I think you guys are right. The chain measures 10" dead on. What would you recommend I do, add some locktight or add another nut or ... ?
On a semi-related note, the alignment to get my chain straight has caused the left and right chain adjustment washers to be a tic different between the two sides of the rear swing-arm. I'll post some pictures to show what I mean. To check for chain straightness, I use a handheld laser and place it on the rear sprocket, pointing along the chain towards front sprocket. You can see in the last picture that things are lined up pretty well, or so I think (I readjusted the chain yesterday and haven't ridden since).
Left Side: i.imgur.com/cN6cObo (http://i.imgur.com/cN6cObo)
Right Side: i.imgur.com/VPjLggM (http://i.imgur.com/VPjLggM)
"Laser Guided" chain adjustment: i.imgur.com/cpGmR5F (http://i.imgur.com/cpGmR5F)
What do you think, am I using the wrong method for checking straightness, is my right washer a little too bent out of shape? The bolts for adjustment are different by ~1/16" BUT the bottoms of bolts are slanted so it is not possible to get an accurate measurement from there.
Ummm. .. what twocool said!! Lol. . I was merely voicing an initial suspicion. .. can't begin to compete with his chain info! :thumb:
Janx,
Sorry for the quick and lengthy reply...I couldn't help it, it was a CHAIN reaction!
I didn't mean to yank anybody's CHAIN..
You could pass on my e mail...then it will become a CHAIN letter...
I'm just trying to keep you guys from buying cheap equipment for your bikes, I don't what a "chain, chain, chain...CHAIN of fools"!
Cheap stuff is available all over the place at those CHAIN stores...
I hope my comments don't drive anybody to CHAIN smoking!
I do apologize for this unfortunate CHAIN of events!
Cookie
Quote from: Janx101 on April 05, 2015, 08:06:20 PM
Ummm. .. what twocool said!! Lol. . I was merely voicing an initial suspicion. .. can't begin to compete with his chain info! :thumb:
These puns are murder. Arrest Twocool for homicide.
A few years ago I found my rear wheel loosening up and allowing the chain slack to increase and I aligned and tighten it up again. It repeated a couple of times and I kept tightening the axle nut tighter and finally the rear wheel locked up. Turned out to be the left rear wheel bearing was disinegrating. Your getting too much change in your new chain even for a low cost standard chain. Check your rear wheel bearings carefully before riding again. I was lucky my wheel locked up a low speed.
I wouldn't put anything but a sealed o-ring or x-ring chain on a GS500. Your standard chain will wear a lot faster than a sealed one. I used standard chains on my 400cc Hondas back in the 80s but they were heavier 530 chains that lasted only about 10-12k miles and I'm getting 14-18k or so on the narrower 520 sealed chains on the GSs depending on how much winter salt water I ride thru.
Check your wheel bearings!
I have never fretted too much about chain tension, if it looks right its good enough for me and its pretty obvious by feel and sight when when its set wrong or worn out.
Set it up on the side or centre stand whatever floats your boat....it doesn't matter either way as far as I am concerned. Imagine this.......you set your tension by the book but weigh 8st, how tight will the chain be when you sit on it? Alternatively you set your tension by the book but weigh 18st, how tight will the chain be when you sit on it?.......... :dunno_black:
Neither have I ever worried too much about stretch, pulling the two rearmost links off the back sprocket is a good enough indicator
(http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/pulling-the-chain.jpg)
Ok its a pushbike but the principle is the same.
If I was really anal about wear and stretch I would buy a tool :thumb:
http://www.xblok.co.uk/www.xblok.co.uk/info.php?p=6 (http://www.xblok.co.uk/www.xblok.co.uk/info.php?p=6)
If you set the chain tension to the specification...but on the center stand instead of the side stand (ie unlaoded) ...when you ride and hit bumps you WILL over stress the chain..as the slack goes out as the suspension compresses........
Cookie
Quote from: sledge on April 06, 2015, 10:28:11 AM
I have never fretted too much about chain tension, if it looks right its good enough for me and its pretty obvious by feel and sight when when its set wrong or worn out.
Set it up on the side or centre stand whatever floats your boat....it doesn't matter either way as far as I am concerned. Imagine this.......you set your tension by the book but weigh 8st, how tight will the chain be when you sit on it? Alternatively you set your tension by the book but weigh 18st, how tight will the chain be when you sit on it?.......... :dunno_black:
Neither have I ever worried too much about stretch, pulling the two rearmost links off the back sprocket is a good enough indicator
(http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/pulling-the-chain.jpg)
Ok its a pushbike but the principle is the same.
If I was really anal about wear and stretch I would buy a tool :thumb:
http://www.xblok.co.uk/www.xblok.co.uk/info.php?p=6 (http://www.xblok.co.uk/www.xblok.co.uk/info.php?p=6)
Fair comment but what happens to the slack when someone who weighs
a) 8 st
and
b) 18 st
Sits on it ?
....and what happens when it hits the bumps with a rider who weighs
a) 8st
and
b) 18st?
Same thing?.......nah!! :D
I'd be taking 'my' rider weight into consideration when adjusting the slack in the chain... and being a larger size I normally allow a little more. . Makes sense to me
both those weights can bottom out the suspension......(what the hell is a stone anyway? 12 LBS ??)
Just the heavier guy will bottom it out more often....but you can adjust the shock for that...
Once you bottom out...there is no more to go....
So if you adjust the chain the way Suzuki says to...you won't over stress the chain...no matter what the weight....
If you adjust the chain way loose because of the misconception of a heavy rider...then the chain will be way too loose when the suspension unloads, and chain can come off or other problems of too loose of a chain...
Suzuki also has a max load of driver and rider...you should stay within that spec also...
Or if you think you are smarter than the engineers at Suzuki...then do it you own home brew way!
just sayin'
cookie
Quote from: sledge on April 06, 2015, 02:41:42 PM
Fair comment but what happens to the slack when someone who weighs
a) 8 st
and
b) 18 st
Sits on it ?
....and what happens when it hits the bumps with a rider who weighs
a) 8st
and
b) 18st?
Same thing?.......nah!! :D
Quote
Or if you think you are smarter than the engineers at Suzuki...then do it you own home brew way!
I've "seen" what those engineers at suzuki do... not sure If I wanna trust them or not. :icon_mrgreen:
OK smartie pants....tell us how YOU adjust the chain....(and how Suzuki way ...is all wrong.... and your way is all right)..
Just askin'
Cookie
Quote from: J_Walker on April 06, 2015, 05:11:46 PM
Quote
Or if you think you are smarter than the engineers at Suzuki...then do it you own home brew way!
I've "seen" what those engineers at suzuki do... not sure If I wanna trust them or not. :icon_mrgreen:
Let's not over think this fellas. While I can say "it is just a chain", I understand the importance of taking it to the extremes (too tight / loose).
While I agree with Twocool about the procedure and reasoning behind it, I won't say Sledge is flat out wrong either. I would say however, that Sledge has plenty of experience with working on bikes though, and for a new owner / rider I wouldn't recommend just eyeballing chain tension.
And I definitely agree with Jack about using sealed chains - I had a 1968 Honda that wouldn't fit a sealed chain. Chain maintenance on that bike was required on a much more regular basis.
I see the point made by twocool now!... hadn't realised that factor. .. but. .
Stock suspension can/will bottom out.. we all been there!
What about with like my katana shock though? Since put in never bottomed yet... but more length/travel in it.... even with my 310 ish lbs geared up.... that going to affect the situ? .. I'm tired tho... I don't think it would cos no bottom out. .. or is the extra travel in the top?... very tired actually! ... anyone care to explain?
My point is this.....
People become anal about chain tension, they insist it HAS to be spot on and convince themselves it HAS to be done by the book........or bad things will instantly happen. Suzuki quote an adjustment method simply because they have to and the method they quote may be seen by them as being the easier or safer option. I believe the figure quoted is based on the weight of an average rider using the machine under average circumstances. You can adjust it with the bikes weight on or off the back wheel but why worry about it.....as soon as someone gets on it the slack is taken up and the heavier you are the more slack is taken out so all the careful adjustment you have just done goes out of the window!!
People talk about tension reducing a chains lifespan but tension is just one of many factors involved and I don't hear people saying don't use it in the rain, or the dust, or on bumpy roads or accelerate too fast....and lets face it all these things contribute to chain wear and will shorten its life if taken to an extreme.
Like most things that require adjustment there will be a degree of tolerance involved, I see the quoted figure as being towards the minimum and I tend to be generous when carrying out adjustments. If anything its better to be on the loose side as that places less strain on the components.
Sledge,
I must respectfully disagree with many of your statements below. I will carefully explain each, and why.
First misconception: "Chain tension adjustment is a factor of rider weight"
Truth: Chain tension is a factor of swing arm geometry. When swing arm is unloaded (like driving over bumps) the chain will get looser. When the swing arm is compressed (also like driving over bumps) the chain will get tighter. (if rider weight was a factor, "the book" would give different spec for different rider weight...like they do with tire inflation) If you use the factory spec. the chain will be in a adjustment for all rider weights......which really means... it will be in proper tension through all swing arm range of movement.
Second misconception: It doesn't matter whether you set chain tension with the bike on center stand or on side stand...there is no difference.
Truth: If you use Suzuki spec. You must check chain tension while on side stand. If you were to use Suzuki min spec of .8" while on the center stand...the chain will become over tight during riding over bumps. (regardless of rider weight)
Third misconception: Don't do it by the book....I have a "better way"
Truth: If you do it by the book...it will be correct....leaves out guesswork. The book show a very simple and easy to adjust the chain....why all the opposition to that?
Forth misconception: people are too anal..."people say the chain tension MUST be "spot on""
Truth: Nobody said that....The spec allows plus or minus 5 mm...that's a big range of acceptability....no need to be exact...just need to be in spec....doing it "right" is not being "anal"
Finally...all the straw-man arguments..
Yes, many things contribute to chain wear...but we're talking only about chain tension here.
Cookie
Quote from: sledge on April 07, 2015, 01:16:35 AM
My point is this.....
People become anal about chain tension, they insist it HAS to be spot on and convince themselves it HAS to be done by the book........or bad things will instantly happen. Suzuki quote an adjustment method simply because they have to and the method they quote may be seen by them as being the easier or safer option. I believe the figure quoted is based on the weight of an average rider using the machine under average circumstances. You can adjust it with the bikes weight on or off the back wheel but why worry about it.....as soon as someone gets on it the slack is taken up and the heavier you are the more slack is taken out so all the careful adjustment you have just done goes out of the window!!
People talk about tension reducing a chains lifespan but tension is just one of many factors involved and I don't hear people saying don't use it in the rain, or the dust, or on bumpy roads or accelerate too fast....and lets face it all these things contribute to chain wear and will shorten its life if taken to an extreme.
Like most things that require adjustment there will be a degree of tolerance involved, I see the quoted figure as being towards the minimum and I tend to be generous when carrying out adjustments. If anything its better to be on the loose side as that places less strain on the components.
Janx,
Once you install "non standard" parts, then the factory specifications are out the window...they may apply, or they may not apply, and it's hard to tell which...
So you instantly become an "arm chair engineer" and when you ride you become a "test pilot"!!!
If you say the new shock 'never" bottoms out...uhhhh...ok....so?
It certainly allows some range of swing arm travel....so...you gotta figure what is happening to your chain through the entire range of swing arm travel.....you don't want the chain too loose when the swing arm is fully extended...and you don't want the chain too tight when the swing arm is compressed as far as your shock will allow....
I'd grab some really heavy duty ratchet straps, and wrap the rear of the bike...and start ratcheting down the rear suspension, and keep an eye on the chain to see what happens. Probably there is a "witness mark" that shows the max the shock has been compressed as of now....you should compress the suspension to at least that far, and see if the chain gets super tight or just a bit tight.....you probably should go a bit beyond and compress some more...just to see what happens if that suspension gets an extreme load during riding..
Cookie
Quote from: Janx101 on April 06, 2015, 08:22:16 PM
I see the point made by twocool now!... hadn't realised that factor. .. but. .
Stock suspension can/will bottom out.. we all been there!
What about with like my katana shock though? Since put in never bottomed yet... but more length/travel in it.... even with my 310 ish lbs geared up.... that going to affect the situ? .. I'm tired tho... I don't think it would cos no bottom out. .. or is the extra travel in the top?... very tired actually! ... anyone care to explain?
Thanks cookie! .. most of what you latest replied to sledge (and several hours sleep) ... made it clearer again...
Even with the katana shock installed. .. although the particular values of setting may change. .. the actual theory/ physicality of your explanation doesn't! :thumb:
The chain tension settings are there to deal with the swingarm movement range.. not the rate of change/rider weight. .. they handle from extreme top position (extension) to extreme bottom position (compression/bottomed out)
The 8st rider (oh and 16lbs in a stone) or the 18st rider (I wish!) Only affect how low or high the suspension sits while riding. .. you can't go past the 'stops'!
I was over tired and just couldn't decide if the shock length would change the reasoning (not the values)
... 'humorous dig' .. shame on you sledge!, engineering background should have reasoned the reasons for you! :thumb:
I've always adjusted my chains on the centerstand and wouldn't consider doing it on the sidestand regardless of what Suzuki has to say about it. I align the wheel when I put a new chain on and it stays aligned for the life of the chain. When making a chain adjustment I take equal turns or half turns of the adjusters on both sides to bring the chain into adjustment while maintaing the wheel alignment.
It's important to maintain the pull of the adjuster on the axle at all times during adjustment to maintain wheel alignment so after loosening the axle nut for chain adjustment I snug it back down a bit so there is some resistance to the adjuster pull on the axle keeping it all tight up.
When the bike is back down on the sidestand I do give the chain a quick check for freeplay in that position.
And....how much slack do you, or did you put? And how did you determine what slack to use?
Just askin'
Cookie
Quote from: gsJack on April 07, 2015, 03:00:09 PM
I've always adjusted my chains on the centerstand and wouldn't consider doing it on the sidestand regardless of what Suzuki has to say about it. I align the wheel when I put a new chain on and it stays aligned for the life of the chain. When making a chain adjustment I take equal turns or half turns of the adjusters on both sides to bring the chain into adjustment while maintaing the wheel alignment.
It's important to maintain the pull of the adjuster on the axle at all times during adjustment to maintain wheel alignment so after loosening the axle nut for chain adjustment I snug it back down a bit so there is some resistance to the adjuster pull on the axle keeping it all tight up.
When the bike is back down on the sidestand I do give the chain a quick check for freeplay in that position.
Jack,
Let me be clear here....
It is OK to work on the chain, with the bike on the center stand...align the wheel, and take a guess at the slack in the chain etc....
But...once you're done, you MUST put the bike on the ground, on the side stand, to CHECK the chain play...as per Suzuki manual...
If the chain play is out of spec....you have to put the bike back on the center stand...loosen up the axle nut...and tighten or loosen the adjusters as required....Back to the side stand to check the spec......
Again...if you place the bike on the center stand...which means the suspension is fully extended...and you adjust the chain to the .8" ~ 1.2" spec....the chain WILL be too tight once the bike is put on the ground and the suspension compresses. And if you ride over bumps, the suspension will compress...possibly all the way...and really stress that chain..
Cookie
Quote from: gsJack on April 07, 2015, 03:00:09 PM
I've always adjusted my chains on the centerstand and wouldn't consider doing it on the sidestand regardless of what Suzuki has to say about it. I align the wheel when I put a new chain on and it stays aligned for the life of the chain. When making a chain adjustment I take equal turns or half turns of the adjusters on both sides to bring the chain into adjustment while maintaing the wheel alignment.
It's important to maintain the pull of the adjuster on the axle at all times during adjustment to maintain wheel alignment so after loosening the axle nut for chain adjustment I snug it back down a bit so there is some resistance to the adjuster pull on the axle keeping it all tight up.
When the bike is back down on the sidestand I do give the chain a quick check for freeplay in that position.
Quote from: twocool on April 07, 2015, 04:23:33 PM
And....how much slack do you, or did you put? And how did you determine what slack to use?
Just askin'
Cookie
I just grab the chain near the center of the lower run and move it up and down and observe the free play. :icon_lol: Thinking back 15 years and 180k GS miles ago I probably noticed the first time I adjusted a GS chain that there was a little less free play after the bike was down and compensated so I had an inch or so the next time after it was down. :dunno_black:
Reading the 2 current chain threads I reluctantly find myself agreeing with Sledge for the 2nd time this year:
Quote from: sledge on April 07, 2015, 01:16:35 AM
My point is this.....
People become anal about chain tension, they insist it HAS to be spot on and convince themselves it HAS to be done by the book........or bad things will instantly happen. Suzuki quote an adjustment method simply because they have to and the method they quote may be seen by them as being the easier or safer option.
Quote from: cpaiin on April 04, 2015, 05:53:45 PM
Chain: http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/5553/i/did-520-standard-roller-chain (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/5553/i/did-520-standard-roller-chain)
What I guess I'm really asking is, do any of you have suggestions for a high quality, strong chain that will last? I'll have to ignore my cheap heart and go for something that I'm not afraid of snapping on the highway.
Thanks for reading my book of a question. :thumb:
if you read the very first review of that chain:
***"CRAPPY
I just put one on my klr650 and had to adjust it 6 times in 800 miles. This stretched 1.25 inches. What a piece of crap."***
you'll understand why non oring/xring chains are a waste of money.
the general rule is:
buy an oring/xring chain every 30,000 miles, or buy a NON oring/xring chain every week. hopefully it didn't wear out your sprockets in the process too.
Ohgood is absolutely right. A huge number of those reviews are negative. It's important to research whatever you're buying, before you buy it, regardless of the price. You know the old saying. Buy it nice or buy it twice. . . Now you'll likely have to replace that chain. I'd consider it a danger to keep on my bike.
I used an EK chain with a screw on master link. In 14000miles and 2.5 years i adjusted it maybe 4 times and it still looked brand new when i sold the bike. clean with kerosene and lube with DuPont chain saver.
Just saying......from my experience it's fine to adjust your chain/laser your chain on the centre stand,but remember to add about 5-7mm to that recommended 20-30mm cos when it's on the side stand it tightens slightly.
Wow...Like...somebody who actually understands this !!!!
cookie
Quote from: fetor56 on April 11, 2015, 07:25:40 PM
Just saying......from my experience it's fine to adjust your chain/laser your chain on the centre stand,but remember to add about 5-7mm to that recommended 20-30mm cos when it's on the side stand it tightens slightly.
I have used the center stand (when equipped) since 1968 on my personal bike collection and any bike I have worked on using whatever spec they give me. You are over thinking the simple process of adjusting chain slack if you think you have to use the side stand, we are not splitting atoms here. I also don't set my valve lash after the initial 600 miles either.
'67 Honda CT90
'73 Honda XR75
'73 Honda CB350F
'75 Honda CB400F
'76 Yamaha MX125C
'76 Maico 450
'77 Yamaha YZ80D
'77 Yamaha YZ250D
'77 Yamaha DT250D
'78 Yamaha YZ80E
'79 Honda XR185
'79 Suzuki GS750L
'80 Honda XR80
'81 Honda XR200R
'81 Honda XR100
'82 Kawasaki KZ1000K2
'97 Honda SR50
'02 Honda CH80K2
'05 Suzuki DL650K5
'06 Honda PS250
'07 Suzuki AN400K7
'07 Suzuki GS500F
'08 Suzuki GSX650F
'10 Honda SH150i
'10 Kawasaki Ninja 250R
'13 Yamaha WR250R
'13 Suzuki Boulevard M50
Quote from: fetor56 on April 11, 2015, 07:25:40 PM
Just saying......from my experience it's fine to adjust your chain/laser your chain on the centre stand,but remember to add about 5-7mm to that recommended 20-30mm cos when it's on the side stand it tightens slightly.
Do you really think that the static weight of the bike compressing the suspension while on the side stand requires one dimension and another 5-7mm for adjusting on the center stand :bs:
EDIT: What about spring preload, softer or harder, or the added weight of luggage or accessory's or just plain worn suspension, all variables that will cause the suspension to compress to a
different degree while on the side stand..way too many variables from bike to bike, no two bikes will ever sag to the same position. A reliable process removes variables, all the more reason to use the center stand. Unladen suspension (center stand) is a far more reliable/consistent way to adjust your chain, regardless of what Suzuki says :nono:
Making a mistake a hundred times, or a thousand times...it is still a mistake!
If you set the GS 500 chain slack, to the Suzuki spec, but while on center stand.....the chain will be too tight..period.
The last guy realized this, and created his own modified spec..
i.e. looser than Suzuki spec while on center stand, so a to be within suzuki spec when on side stand...
Very simple concept.
Even Dr. Jack who is arguing NOT to do it the Suzuki way...actually does do it suzuki way, because he says once he's done, he checks play on side stand, to "about an inch"...
.8 ~ 1.2"...is about and inch.........
Just sayin........
Cookie
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on April 11, 2015, 09:26:27 PM
I have used the center stand (when equipped) since 1968 on my personal bike collection and any bike I have worked on using whatever spec they give me. You are over thinking the simple process of adjusting chain slack if you think you have to use the side stand, we are not splitting atoms here. I also don't set my valve lash after the initial 600 miles either.
'67 Honda CT90
'73 Honda XR75
'73 Honda CB350F
'75 Honda CB400F
'76 Yamaha MX125C
'76 Maico 450
'77 Yamaha YZ80D
'77 Yamaha YZ250D
'77 Yamaha DT250D
'78 Yamaha YZ80E
'79 Honda XR185
'79 Suzuki GS750L
'80 Honda XR80
'81 Honda XR200R
'81 Honda XR100
'82 Kawasaki KZ1000K2
'97 Honda SR50
'02 Honda CH80K2
'05 Suzuki DL650K5
'06 Honda PS250
'07 Suzuki AN400K7
'07 Suzuki GS500F
'08 Suzuki GSX650F
'10 Honda SH150i
'10 Kawasaki Ninja 250R
'13 Yamaha WR250R
'13 Suzuki Boulevard M50
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on April 11, 2015, 10:12:28 PM
Quote from: fetor56 on April 11, 2015, 07:25:40 PM
Just saying......from my experience it's fine to adjust your chain/laser your chain on the centre stand,but remember to add about 5-7mm to that recommended 20-30mm cos when it's on the side stand it tightens slightly.
Do you really think that the static weight of the bike compressing the suspension while on the side stand requires one dimension and another 5-7mm for adjusting on the center stand :bs:
EDIT: What about spring preload, softer or harder, or the added weight of luggage or accessory's or just plain worn suspension, all variables that will cause the suspension to compress to a different degree while on the side stand..way too many variables from bike to bike, no two bikes will ever sag to the same position. A reliable process removes variables, all the more reason to use the center stand. Unladen suspension (center stand) is a far more reliable/consistent way to adjust your chain, regardless of what Suzuki says :nono:
Like i said "from my experience"......why don't u test it to your own specifications then you'll have your own experience.
The good thing is we all agree, too tight is not good. Weather you use the full synthetic route to adjust the chain or the dino juice method to adjust your chain, the good thing is your adjusting your chain and understand that too tight is not good :cheers:
It would only be a mistake if I left a literal lifetime of damaged secondary drives in my wake, quite the contrary, I have never had to replace a damaged driveshaft seal or driveshaft in my 47 years of adjusting chains. Chain damage is the least of your worry's if you have the chain too tight, driveshaft and driveshaft seals are where the real damage is and is where the real concern should lay. I use the factory settings but always to the loose side on all of the 27 bikes I have owned. I was riding MX bikes back when suspension travel went from just under 4 inches for the '76 MX125C to 9.8 in just 1 year for the '77 YZ250D, my current WR250R comes with 10.6 inches of travel. A loose chain is a happy chain :kiss3:
Holy Phuck Batman, choose a method, side or center stand, go to the loose side and Ride On...both ways work :whisper:
Quote from: twocool on April 12, 2015, 01:59:13 AM
Making a mistake a hundred times, or a thousand times...it is still a mistake!
If you set the GS 500 chain slack, to the Suzuki spec, but while on center stand.....the chain will be too tight..period.
The last guy realized this, and created his own modified spec..
i.e. looser than Suzuki spec while on center stand, so a to be within suzuki spec when on side stand...
Very simple concept.
Even Dr. Jack who is arguing NOT to do it the Suzuki way...actually does do it suzuki way, because he says once he's done, he checks play on side stand, to "about an inch"...
.8 ~ 1.2"...is about and inch.........
Just sayin........
Cookie
Looks like this post really took turn. :confused:
Anyway, it's been over a month. I've probably put on about 500 more miles without having to tighten my chain. It is a bit looser than before so I think I will tighten it again. I'm also highly considering buying a better chain with X-rings.
Thanks to everyone for the advice and replies. :thumb:
You don't necessarily have to get an X ring. I changed to an EK Chain 520 SRO-5 O-Ring Chain last year and no longer had to re-adjust the chain every hundred miles. It only cost me about $43.
I got caught in the tighten-and-measure-tension-on-centerstand mistake loop when I first got the bike. I'm sure that contributed, but I realized the chain on the bike when I got it was basic Bikemaster equivalent standard chain. Even if the EK is just ok, a just-ok brand-name o-ring chain is still better and more economical than a generic-quality standard roller chain.
So have I decided for my own personal sake...
So I've ridden quite a few more miles. My chain got loose again. I tightened it. Less than 100 miles later, it's loose enough to justify another tightening. I measured 16 links which should be exactly 10" on my 520 chain. It came out to 10 1/8" so I've got a little stretching going on. Does this warrant a new chain? (I might get one anyway to save money on chain wax)
But this small amount of stretch doesn't seem to be enough to make me constantly tighten my chain. I'm thinking it could be the rear wheel adjustment nuts moving. I'll measure the length and see if it changes.
Maybe I'm not tightening the bolts enough. I don't have a torque wrench so everything has been to the torque of "good 'n tight."
::sigh:: I'm just paranoid that something is fatiguing and will one day snap. Hope not.
The chain adjustment shouldn't go "out" in only 100 miles...
Something is wrong...you must figure out what is wrong...
A stretch of 1/8" over 10 inches is A LOT!!!
I suspect you have a cheap sh-t chain, and need to replace it...
With that much stretch in the chain...the chain needs replacing...
I doubt that the rear axle is "slipping" forward...there are the chain adjusters in the swing arms to prevent the axle from moving forward..
You really should use a torque wrench...you can "rent" one for free from Advance auto.
But making the axle nut "good and tight" should work just fine, and the axle should not slip forward because of the chain adjusters preventing forward movement..
Buy a quality chain...like a D.I.D. x ring...yes expensive..(over $100)..but you're troubles will be over so it's worth it..
Cookie
Quote from: cpaiin on July 26, 2015, 03:10:53 PM
So I've ridden quite a few more miles. My chain got loose again. I tightened it. Less than 100 miles later, it's loose enough to justify another tightening. I measured 16 links which should be exactly 10" on my 520 chain. It came out to 10 1/8" so I've got a little stretching going on. Does this warrant a new chain? (I might get one anyway to save money on chain wax)
But this small amount of stretch doesn't seem to be enough to make me constantly tighten my chain. I'm thinking it could be the rear wheel adjustment nuts moving. I'll measure the length and see if it changes.
Maybe I'm not tightening the bolts enough. I don't have a torque wrench so everything has been to the torque of "good 'n tight."
::sigh:: I'm just paranoid that something is fatiguing and will one day snap. Hope not.
Make sure you didn't loose spacer 9 when you changed your chain and sprockets. Will result in wheel bearing failure causing constant loosening of axle and eventual wheel lockup.
http://www.shspowersports.com/fiche_image_popup.asp?fveh=2102§ion=92708&year=2001&make=SUZUKI&category=Motorcycles&dc=3378&name=REAR+WHEEL
Thanks for the input guys.
I'm taking your advice cookie and buying the D.I.D. 520VX2 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0068FTTPI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00
Should get it Friday so I'll be taking it easy till then.
gsJack, I think I still have spacer 9 (I have a vague recollection of checking for it last time I took my wheel off) but I'll take the time to verify when I replace my chain.
So the new chain comes with a clip type connecting link. My current chain has this same type of link and it seems to be on their nice and tight, but do you know of any specific instructions on installing these?
Oh no..... connector link war incoming!! ;)
DID is better than most others. In the mid 90's I almost did what you're doing now. I found Tsubaki's to be the worst, and DID O rings to be better even though they were not as good as tsubaki's on paper.
Anyway I never managed to get a chain I was very happy with. I contemplated Belt drive. a 1" wide Gates Poly chain GT2 will easily take the GS power/torque and smile and ask for more. They put 22mm wide 14mm pitch on Vulcan 800's.
Anyway I never went on to make nothing for belt drive, but the clutch push rod is the biggest obstacle. Its less than 2.25" away and the smallest 14mm pulley is 4.9". Need to custom make a 4.4" pulley at a minimum. Which scootworks.com does.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: cpaiin on July 27, 2015, 08:32:52 PM
Thanks for the input guys.
I'm taking your advice cookie and buying the D.I.D. 520VX2 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0068FTTPI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00
Should get it Friday so I'll be taking it easy till then.
gsJack, I think I still have spacer 9 (I have a vague recollection of checking for it last time I took my wheel off) but I'll take the time to verify when I replace my chain.
So the new chain comes with a clip type connecting link. My current chain has this same type of link and it seems to be on their nice and tight, but do you know of any specific instructions on installing these?
Your Amazon link is for a 108 link chain. Stock GS500 takes a 110 link chain?
I replaced my sprockets to 14 front 39 back.
There used to be some website that showed the correct chain length to buy when using different sprockets. I don't think that website is up anymore but someone took a screenshot and uploaded it to this forum somewhere. Too lazy to look right now :tongue2:
Also, my current chain seemed a bit long when I first put it on (andwith all this stretching, my adjustors are getting close to the limit).
BUT GOOD NEWS!!! I got my new chain today! Days earlier than expected. Just in time too because I was planning on tightening my chain yet again. I'm going to measure the total chain length and see how much it has stretched.
I'll have to browse around and see if anyone has posted some general instructions on installing a master link.
Has anyone ever contacted D.I.D customer support about bad chains? I dunno if its worth the effort, but my current chain is also D.I.D. and has "lasted" less than a year and 1000 miles. I'm guessing it has stretched about an inch in total length. But, maybe I should just take responsibility for buying a ring-less chain (yup, no O-Ring, X-Wing, Y-Wing, or Z-Ring). I'll inspect the chain and see if there is any wear an tear between links.
Wow, no rings at all? That might explain some of your problems....with no orings, any dirt around your chain was able to work it's way in and start wearing and tearing away. Normally chains like that are used for racing applications (used hard and then tossed in the trash).
Some older members can verify: drive chains use to never have any orings. And if you wanted it to last for a thousand miles you really had to baby it (actually just maintain it on a VERY regular basis).
Not sure what website you're referring to cpaiin but I've calculated a lot of center distances for different sprocket sizes and chain lengths for the GS and 14/39T works with either a 108 or 110 link chain:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=44849.msg502495#msg502495
Like Rich said my early 80's 400cc Hondas came with standard unsealed chains but they were 530 wide, 50% wider than the GSs 520 chains. I used the same for replacements and they lasted about 10k miles. My 82 CB750 came with a 530 0-ring chain. I've never cleaned a chain, just spray on lube and keep adjusted from then until now.
I've used only clip type master links for 30 years and 400k miles. Back then the loose side plate was a slip fit on the pins and you jast slipped it on and put on the retaining clip. Now they are a heavy press fit and I squeezed them on with a large arc joint pliers but the last couple I had to use a c-clamp with a small socket over the pin to squeeze them on. Important thing is to get them on far enough so the clip will seat properly in the grooves. Check by putting the large end of the clip slot over a pin and sliding it towards small end to make sure link plate is on far enough, check at both pins. Then when installing the clip make sure the closed end is leading on the moving chain, open end trailing.
Its horribly hard to clean a chain really. There are some "lube cleaners".
I suspect they lube the dirt, and if you're lucky it flies off when riding.
Cool.
Buddha.
I got the new chain on. Here's to hoping it solves the issue :cheers:
I measured the old chain: first to last pin to pin length is 69 7/16" or 69.4375"
If I'm doing the math correctly, 110 links of type 520 chain (which has a pitch of 5/8") should be exactly (5/8)*110 = 68.75" so my chain has stretched 0.6875"
I'll be putting about 150 miles on it by the end of this week so that should be a good test. :thumb:
Quote from: cpaiin on July 28, 2015, 05:45:11 PM
I replaced my sprockets to 14 front 39 back.
There used to be some website that showed the correct chain length to buy when using different sprockets. I don't think that website is up anymore but someone took a screenshot and uploaded it to this forum somewhere. Too lazy to look right now :tongue2: ...
Maybe this will help:
www.gearingcommander.com
There's a table on the bottom of the page (Relative sprocket & chain wear due to drive train changes). :thumb:
Quote from: cpaiin on July 28, 2015, 10:09:01 PM
I got the new chain on. Here's to hoping it solves the issue :cheers:
I measured the old chain: first to last pin to pin length is 69 7/16" or 69.4375"
If I'm doing the math correctly, 110 links of type 520 chain (which has a pitch of 5/8") should be exactly (5/8)*110 = 68.75" so my chain has stretched 0.6875"
I'll be putting about 150 miles on it by the end of this week so that should be a good test. :thumb:
Chains don't `stretch` in the true sense of the word, they elongate over time due to wear between the pins and rollers.
And have another look at those figures
0.6875" is just under 17.5mm!!...has it really worn that much?
Please keep your new chain clean.
The manual recommends to clean and re lube every 1000km...or every 600 miles.
I can't remember factors of 600 so I clean and lube every 500... If I'm on the road, I'll let it go to 600 or so, but then do the next clean sooner.
O ring or x ring chains are sealed, so they stay lubed pretty well...but it is the dirt which wears them out and caused stretching.. But the lubing also increases chain life.
The idea with or ring x ring etc...is you pay more up front, but get way mor elife overall, so they are actually more economical.
Cleaning a chain is easy and fun.
Just get a small shoebox size plastic container. Put in a few ounces of kerosene. Put bike on center stand. Slide a piece of corrugated cardboard under rear wheel and chain area...or use a pizza box. Slide the plastic container under chain. Get a soft, 1/2" wide artist paint brush. Just keep slathering on kerosene, and bushing softly. Lots of kero! Work the brush over each link, and work your way around the whole chain. Start at the master link...so you know when you're all the way around. The dirt will just wash off, and drop into the plastic container...
After only 500 miles, the chain will not be all that dirty anyway...after brushing with kero, it will look as clean as new. Wipe down softly with a paper towel to dry...let it sit some time to dry off completely...
Spray the chain with your favorite lube....I like the spray made by Honda.
Use the power of the spray thru the little red nozzle tube to get the lube into the chain, and to power off any crap you missed with the brush...Let it shoot thru the chain and drip onto your cardboard. Lightly wipe of any excess with paper shop towels.
Get the lube into the center of the chain, and on to the outer sides of the links.
Let this sit for a while...The lube which is thin like water when you first spray it on, will harden somewhat to the consistency of white grease...
My first OEM (Regina) chain went over 24,000 miles. It was still good but I replaced it anyway. My second chain threw out an o ring...at about 16,000 so I replaced the chain.
Now I have D.I.D.....8000 miles on that, it looks brand new. I've only done two "tightenings"...each one was a 1/12 turn of the adjusters.
(or you can do nothing at all...and go 1/2 million miles as per Dr, Jack!)
Cookie
The experts say that 'stretch" of 1% is the limit for O ring type chains, and 2% is the limit for non o ring types...
So this chain is within limits for a non o ring chain...but beyond limits for an o ring type.
But I think the whole point of this exercise is the rate of wear...that the chain is continuing to wear out quickly, and needs constant re tightening...
Also non o ring chains need constant cleaning, in order to last...and they still don't last very long.
If the new chain doesn't solve the problem...then at least you can look somewhere else for what's wrong. But knowing the old chain is non o ring...the evidence points to that being the issue.
Cookie
Quote from: sledge on July 29, 2015, 04:38:11 AM
Quote from: cpaiin on July 28, 2015, 10:09:01 PM
I got the new chain on. Here's to hoping it solves the issue :cheers:
I measured the old chain: first to last pin to pin length is 69 7/16" or 69.4375"
If I'm doing the math correctly, 110 links of type 520 chain (which has a pitch of 5/8") should be exactly (5/8)*110 = 68.75" so my chain has stretched 0.6875"
I'll be putting about 150 miles on it by the end of this week so that should be a good test. :thumb:
Chains don't `stretch` in the true sense of the word, they elongate over time due to wear between the pins and rollers.
And have another look at those figures
0.6875" is just under 17.5mm!!...has it really worn that much?
Quote from: cpaiin on July 27, 2015, 08:32:52 PM................gsJack, I think I still have spacer 9 (I have a vague recollection of checking for it last time I took my wheel off) but I'll take the time to verify when I replace my chain.....................
?
Don't tell anyone, but... :whisper: I didn't check.
I'm pretty confident they're in there. It's such a hassle getting the wheel off and back on.
But maybe my slack attitude is one of the causes of my seemingly endless issues.
.... take the time and check! ... better peace of mind and knowledge!
So I've put on ~150 more miles on it. I want to adjust the chain just a bit. Overall, there doesn't seem to be much if any stretching.
Now my question is, how often and with what product should I lube my chain? Right now, I still have half a can of DuPont Teflon Chain Saver. Is there any kind of lube that would be incompatible with the lube that came already on the chain?