I figured I'd share my first 3D printed part with you guys. Its a quick throttle clip to increase sensitivty of the throttle:
Sketchup design:
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2lvxvd3.jpg)
a present from the UPS mailman
(http://i57.tinypic.com/24mv054.jpg)
installed:
(http://i57.tinypic.com/y0700.png)
You can find the clip on shapeways.com (http://shpws.me/HIUh)
The clip in the picture is a little bit too short but works perfectly. I already updated the model on shapeways for a perfect fit.
I also modeled the carubetor slide guides because mine were worn out and I cannot order them from Suzuki:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2a9ef6q.jpg)
Can be found here on shapeways (http://shpws.me/GAFl)
I have never had those printed because I found the same part on a BMW motorcycle and BMW is a nice guy who actually can deliver us the wearable part:
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l51/teamicecream/Photo08-10-13131434.jpg)
BMW article number 13 11 2343374
However a few days ago an unknown person ordered the slide guide from shapeways (he probably couldnt find a place to order new ones, damn you suzuki!) so they were printed succesfully recently.
Welcome to future fellow GS500 drivers ;)
Sweet! A great contribution to the forum. You should see about printing harder to acquire parts. Many people here are having trouble finding the plastic nipple tips that the vacuum tubes connect to. Buying them separately is impossible and the whole assembly is very expensive.
Now, how much for an entire GS500?
How does that piece increase throttle sensitivity?
This is really cool :cheers:
Quote from: akapellen17 on May 21, 2015, 08:30:07 AM
How does that piece increase throttle sensitivity?
When you increase the diameter of the grip the throttle opens further for every degree you turn it. For example the standard grip requires a ~90 degree turn to reach 100% throttle. With the clip you only need to turn it ~60 degrees to reacht 100%.
It does make the grip a little heavier to turn. I have found it to be a quite nice feeling up to 80km/h. I havent tested it on the highway yet where I use my GS the most (100-130 km/h). The heavier throttle may be a setback there because it requires more effort to hold it but we'll see. I had it printed because somebody with a GS asked how he could increase sensitivity of the throttle so I helped him out.
Quote from: akapellen17 on May 21, 2015, 08:30:07 AM
How does that piece increase throttle sensitivity?
The cable wraps around the outside of that section. As you roll the throttle the cable is pulled around the circumference of the cam. By making the cam larger, you increase the circumference, and increase how much cable is pulled per degree of throttle rotation.
Quote from: kapiteinkoek on May 21, 2015, 09:35:26 AM
Quote from: akapellen17 on May 21, 2015, 08:30:07 AM
How does that piece increase throttle sensitivity?
When you increase the diameter of the grip the throttle opens further for every degree you turn it. For example the standard grip requires a ~90 degree turn to reach 100% throttle. With the clip you only need to turn it ~60 degrees to reacht 100%.
It does make the grip a little heavier to turn. I have found it to be a quite nice feeling up to 80km/h. I havent tested it on the highway yet where I use my GS the most (100-130 km/h). The heavier throttle may be a setback there because it requires more effort to hold it but we'll see. I had it printed because somebody with a GS asked how he could increase sensitivity of the throttle so I helped him out.
Beat me to it.
Hypothetically the throttle should only feel heavier when adding throttle, not when holding it steady.
Is this part cheaper then an R6 throttle tube? ($10)
The R6 tube fits and has a larger diameter than the GS tube?
Anyway in The Netherlands you have to pay about $17 for the tube. The clip is less than $5 (+ a little bit of shipping, there is a shapeway production facility in my country). Also lazy people will prefer the clip because you dont have to remove the handlebar weight to get to the tube eh :icon_razz:
Quote from: kapiteinkoek on May 21, 2015, 09:51:04 AM
The R6 tube fits and has a larger diameter than the GS tube?
Anyway in The Netherlands you have to pay about $17 for the tube. The clip is less than $5 (+ a little bit of shipping, there is a shapeway production facility in my country). Also lazy people will prefer the clip because you dont have to remove the handlebar weight to get to the tube eh :icon_razz:
Yes, there is an R6 throttle tube thread some where on here. It's a 1/4 turn throttle, so maybe even snappier then the one you designed.
That's a good price.
I had thought about ease of installation as a plus. Especially if you have nice grips you want to keep.
Nice, thanks for sharing. what choice of materials can one choose from for different parts?
Quote from: bmf on May 21, 2015, 10:07:58 AM
Nice, thanks for sharing. what choice of materials can one choose from for different parts?
The material I enabled on shapeways is laser sintered nylon. It is a pretty strong and sturdy type of plastic with just enough flexibility to be pushed on the grip. Shapeways as much more materials available tough ranging from plastics to stuff like steel, ceramics and gold.
https://www.shapeways.com/materials?li=nav
Depending on the material you choose your parts may become madly expensive :wink:
Quote from: Slack on May 21, 2015, 09:57:14 AM
...maybe even snappier then the one you designed.
I doubt that because the clip is almost maxing out the available space ;)
Quote from: Iarn on May 21, 2015, 08:15:20 AM
Many people here are having trouble finding the plastic nipple tips that the vacuum tubes connect to. Buying them separately is impossible and the whole assembly is very expensive.
By the way what is this about? I have a 96 gs500 and I'm not aware of problems with nipples. I've had a 2001 for parts briefly and the only nipple problem I can remember is that one of them needed for carb syncing was hard to reach.
Quote from: Iarn on May 21, 2015, 08:15:20 AM
Sweet! A great contribution to the forum. You should see about printing harder to acquire parts. Many people here are having trouble finding the plastic nipple tips that the vacuum tubes connect to. Buying them separately is impossible and the whole assembly is very expensive.
Yes! I still need this part.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=68891.0 (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=68891.0)
If they have clear or translucent plastic, what about the colored lenses on the gauge cluster for high beam, neutral, signal , and oil?
oooooh that is a great idea!!! :star:
If someone can make this happen, I will pay money.
If you can provide me the dimensions of those nipple things i can model them and put them on shapeways for you. Its a small part so it should be pretty cheap.
And what is tbe idea with gauge lenses?
-edit
ohhhh now I understand after seeing this picture
(http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68829.0;attach=2781;image)
(http://images.cmsnl.com/img/products/cover-assydiaphragmr_big1350201DC0-01_fdc8.jpg)
Thats an easy part to model. If somebody has the piece and can provide us with the dimensions I can do that for you. If it helps I can reposition the nipple anywhere you want.
And by the way shapeways does not provide colored translucent plastics. iMaterialise on the other hand does although I'm not sure if those are the colors you would want
http://i.materialise.com/materials/transparent-resin
Sculpteo also has some options
http://www.sculpteo.com/en/resin-material
Otherwise you have to stain/paint the plastic yourself.
:bowdown: 3d printing rare parts, genius!
(http://i58.tinypic.com/242euxx.jpg)
Spent a couple of minutes in sketchup to show that its easily done ;)
Obviously the dimensions are a bit off because I dont know them. Also in a final version I'd apply less round corners because that can be a real hassle to model 'watertight' which is required for 3D printing.
How would I give you dimensions on something that's 3-D? And I could care less about color and material, as long as it functions properly.
We have faith in you. I'd use a vernier caliper ;)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/ngx1yo.png)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/11kgr36.jpg)
That should get me going
I could also use a picture of the inside of the part else I can't give directions or model that.
Another option is that you find yourself an envelope and get that part (broken nipple is not a problem) to The Netherlands. I'll go nuts with a caliper for you :cheers:
Slide guides wear if you have run dirty filters for too long. On my 48k mile GS I ran K&N from 25k. It still was good. OK I am not sure how many carbs I swapped out in it ... may be a false assertion.
OK Anyway, wear of that part happens long after you have had other problems.
Cool.
Buddha.
I doubt that. I bought mine when it had 9900 miles on it and I have swapped the air filter consequently every 6000 miles since then.
Wow, I had no idea what goes into 3-D printing. I don't think I can make those measurements.
As a professional machinist, most people do not understand the intricacies of manufacturing truly high quality things :thumb:
This is absolutely amazing, brilliant way of sharing a modified part and if you manage to help rage with his nipples (giggidy) that would be awesome, have been watching his thread and cringing at the idea of buying the whole assembly.
Will pick up one of those throttle clips!
Quote from: ragecage23 on May 22, 2015, 09:29:57 AM
Wow, I had no idea what goes into 3-D printing. I don't think I can make those measurements.
Well then we have a challenge there :cool:
It is really very simple to measure especially if you have a digital caliper. But if you dont have a caliper or fail to see how you should measure things then other options remain. Somebody else may take the measurements or send me the broken part.
Or maybe there is someone here with enough sketchupskills to do it himself :cool:
I didn't realize sketchup was so feature packed. I haven't played around with it since it was first released.
Of course, I don't know the first thing about 3D modeling a product for manufacture. I imagine you need calipers more accurate than the harbor freight chinese crap I have for measuring valve shims.
I really like this thread.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on May 22, 2015, 10:57:41 AM
I imagine you need calipers more accurate than the harbor freight chinese crap I have for measuring valve shims.
I really like this thread.
Really you dont, if you can measure your valve shims you can measure accurate enough for the consumer 3D print services of today. The accuracy required for measuring your valve shims is 0,01mm. For measuring this object and getting it printed on shapeways 0,1mm accuracy is enough really.
I have a Mitutoyo caliper thats rated for 0,05mm accuracy thats good enough for shapeways stuff. For valveshims I have a cheap (probably chinese) digital caliper that is more accurate, 0,001 I believe. I also have this fancy micrometer I pretty much never use because the cheap digital caliper works perfectly fine.
Also Sketchup has a lot of features but its not as easy as building something there and presto you can print it. You have to check the model with other software and convert it to the proper format (.stl). By the way I'm no professional whatsoever. I'm still in college and I've been dicking around with 3D software for years (making maps and models for games and stuff :laugh:). Sketchup is like the MSpaint for modeling. Being able to have sketchup models produced this easily is absolutely brilliant.
I don't have a caliper and I think using some alternative for measuring may not be accurate enough. Talking about my nipples (on the part of course) one prong is closed and the other is opened.
Might as well leave the closed nipple out of the design. Saves a few cents on material costs and why keep nipples where nothing comes out of. wait what
Something I just realised by the way is that sintered nylon may not be the best material for the nipple part. The plastic is resistant up to 80 degrees celcius and after that it will start to deform. Since the caps are close to the cilinder heads I figure those 80 degrees can be reached easily.
No worries though, there are other materials available such as ABS plastic on i.materialise. Another interesting option is to find a person close to your home with an ABS printer on 3Dhubs.com. If you are willing to spend a bit more (I estimate about $30 whereas an ABS plastic print would cost about $10) you can even have it printed in stainless steel.
Quote from: kapiteinkoek on May 22, 2015, 12:15:49 PM
Might as well leave the closed nipple out of the design. Saves a few cents on material costs and why keep nipples where nothing comes out of. wait what
Something I just realised by the way is that sintered nylon may not be the best material for the nipple part. The plastic is resistant up to 80 degrees celcius and after that it will start to deform. Since the caps are close to the cilinder heads I figure those 80 degrees can be reached easily.
No worries though, there are other materials available such as ABS plastic on i.materialise. Another interesting option is to find a person close to your home with an ABS printer on 3Dhubs.com. If you are willing to spend a bit more (I estimate about $30 whereas an ABS plastic print would cost about $10) you can even have it printed in stainless steel.
I ride in Florida 90+ degrees F =/= 35+ C air temperature. My oil temperature gets to 185F =/= 85c so I presume you're right about the nylon.
but if someone needs a non critical part made from metal, aluminum mainly but I can do zinc and coppers and their alloys. [rarely used on bikes anyway] and can print 3d parts, I can do some lost form casting of those parts.
but I doubt it would be economical to ship from UK to florida, to where ever the part ends up at.. shipping alone would make it not worth it.
This is awesome! I am lucky that I was able to repair my part but i dont think the other guy has (sorry I forgot his name). Another thought is if the material can withstand the vacuum maybe? since vacuum tubes are connected to them? Just another thought.
cool! :cheers:
Quote from: kapiteinkoek on May 22, 2015, 11:54:40 AM
You have to check the model with other software and convert it to the proper format (.stl).
Can you describe these steps in a little more detail? What software do you use for the checking and for the conversion? By checking, I guess it looks for impossible geometries, orphaned points, etc?
There is a sketchup tutorial on shapeways. I use meshlab and accutrans3D. Sketchup is not very good with rounded surfaces because it forms holes quickly. For the carb slide guides i had to intersect two curved surfaces and then even things like camera position and how much you are zoomed in on the intersection become a factor for its succes. There is better software available for modeling but none of them are as easy and fast as sketchup. Even with conversion and checking with other software Im faster than doing it in some autodesk package that I havent used in ages.
As long as it's cheaper than $70 I'm interested.
We still need someone to provide the measurements! Once we have the model anything can be done.
Quote from: J_Walker on May 22, 2015, 05:30:28 PM
but if someone needs a non critical part made from metal, aluminum mainly but I can do zinc and coppers and their alloys. [rarely used on bikes anyway] and can print 3d parts, I can do some lost form casting of those parts.
Lost form casting is also a nice idea. Shapeways even has a casting wax option. Ive seen people cast pretty cool things with nothing more than some common garden stuff and soda cans. But for someone who has not done that before its probably cheaper if he has it printed.
I need to pull my carbs soon. When I do I'll try to get those measurements for you, Rage, if no one else has by then.
Quote from: Slack on May 23, 2015, 04:55:43 AM
I need to pull my carbs soon. When I do I'll try to get those measurements for you, Rage, if no one else has by then.
Thank you, I'd appreciate it.
OK, so you missed labeling one ridge. It lies within the area labeled T2. You also didn't ask for the height in the area T2. So, the Height in T2 is labeled T11, the height of the first missed raised ring is T12, the diameter of the first missed raised ring is D4'.
D1: 45.0
D2: 4.2
D3: 32.0
D4: 28.2
D4': 24.0
D5: 21.7
D6: 17.7
D7: 4.0 at tip, 4.3 at base
D8: 9.0
T1: D3-D4
T2: D4-D5 (but it's where the extra ring is, so it doesn't really exist)
T3: 22.0
T4: 46.0
T5: 5.5
T6: 7.8
T7: 9.5
T8: 14.3
T9: 15.2
T10: 6.0
T11: 2.0
T12: 4.0
H1: 35.5
Nipple hole: 1.9
We also need to do the inside, it's more important then most of the outside measurements.
There are 3 cylinder cutouts:
iD1: 20.7
iT1: 2.8
iD2: 18.1
iT2: 5.9
iD3: 13.5
iT3: 14.2
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/Little-X/carb_zpskoqzmwpq.png)
Great, I'll get to it then :thumb:
By the way do you happen to have some close up pictures from different angles and the inside/underside?
I understand that this is a vacuum supporting thing but how is it sealed airtight? Is there an o-ring or something?
Any idea how much this is going to cost? I'd like a quote so I can go to shop that broke mine to reimburse me.
Quote from: ragecage23 on May 24, 2015, 08:14:07 AM
Any idea how much this is going to cost? I'd like a quote so I can go to shop that broke mine to reimburse me.
That is a hard question and an easy one at the same time.
Its easy because I estimate the material volume to be about 6 cm3. That means the part itself can cost about $7 for ABS and about $30 for steel. You likely have to add some handling costs which is less than $10 most of the time. Its also likely the part has to be shipped within your country so add some local shipping costs to that.
Its hard because we may run into a problem with the nipple. The nipple is a round object and ABS is printed in layers. When the nipple is placed horizontally like I did in the picture the layers might be too visible and compromising the airtightness when you put a hose around it. Object orientation in the printer might be an issue. After all we're looking for a plug&play part and not something that needs to be sanded down or polished before installation. We may have to prototype it first to see how its working out before you can go to the shop and talk about reimbursement of this part.
If I read correctly J_Walker is able to print 3D stuff so maybe he can help prototyping.
Depending on the cost I'm willing to chip in for a bit by having a prototype printed. After all we are now engaged in some really next level shaZam! even though on this day and age it may not look like it. Some dude at the other side of the planet has this tiny broken piece of plastic, some other guy takes measurements and another person is doing the modelling. Finally something real rolls out of a printer somewhere. We're doing something pretty cool and creating stuff while sitting on our ass. Sitting on my ass is my favorite way to do things.
I might be able to get it done at college, I heard they have some 3D printers in the architecture lab so that might even get me going for free. Else I can find a local hub and get something printed, wouldn't even need to have it shipped I can just pick it up.
Now I'll go back to sketchup and see if I can whoop some ass on those round surfaces :laugh:
-edit
done with the first version of the model:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/oa88sx.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/90n5uu.jpg)
As expected sketchup kinda gave me a hard time with the round shapes and I couldn't remember how I managed to model the carb slide guides but hey it worked.
Price will go down a bit because the actual material volume turns out to be 4,4 cm3. My first estimation was 27% too high hehe.
Getting this printed in nylon or steel would be no problem. ABS is going to be a slightly bigger challenge because the nipple is floating in the air and I guess its kinda hard to deposit molten ABS on nothing. Lets see if we can take this to the next level :cheers:
I could still use an answer on this though ;)
Quote from: kapiteinkoek on May 24, 2015, 07:35:17 AM
I understand that this is a vacuum supporting thing but how is it sealed airtight? Is there an o-ring or something?
I also added the part to shapeways (http://shpws.me/HUlF) for adventurous people who like experiments.
Quote from: kapiteinkoek on May 24, 2015, 10:51:10 AM
After all we are now engaged in some really next level shaZam! even though on this day and age it may not look like it. Some dude at the other side of the planet has this tiny broken piece of plastic, some other guy takes measurements and another person is doing the modelling. Finally something real rolls out of a printer somewhere. We're doing something pretty cool and creating stuff while sitting on our ass.
That's Why I'm IN!
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/Little-X/001_zpskof0mpzi.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/Little-X/002_zpsgnm4huzz.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/Little-X/003_zpszsvct8nz.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/Little-X/004_zpsgfhdqhzu.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/Little-X/009_zpsrkudgl4t.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/Little-X/010_zpsxkqq2e7s.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/Little-X/005_zpsdkissskm.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/Little-X/006_zpshpj9veo9.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/Little-X/008_zps9e3bemol.jpg)
I'll increase thickness of the 'ceiling' because its springloaded. Good pictures thats what I needed.
...... I'm still amazed and 'firm' about printing in stainless steel!!? ...
3d printing. . Been aware of it from tv/online for a while.... but. .. holy crap! How clever and tricky are people to come up with an idea like a 3d printer in the first place! ... then. ... then! We have members on here that understand the modelling process! .. dang! ! .. this is a very cool time in future history to be alive! :thumb:
Updated the model with thicker ceiling. I put a dent in it because it contributes not much to strength and saves material cost.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/4rvka1.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/29f5c9w.jpg)
Steel version, looks neat eh :laugh:
Also I'd like to know if this is the most convenient place for the nipple. I assume it breaks because the plastic becomes brittle with age, somebody takes off the hoses for maintenance and then it snaps.
Or does the nipple snap because it is in an inconvenient place (tension on the hose) and snaps because of that?
Or maybe there is simply a better place for the nipple? We have pretty much the freedom to put it anywhere we want so if it helps we should take that chance.
Hey guys, I just heard of this yesterday actually. if you google your nearest city and just put in "Hackerspace" you will get local places that have cool things like CnC machines, 3d printers and tools and stuff. they are all private run and all and from my understanding how they work is they have a open house once a month and you have to pay a monthly or yearly fee in order to use the buildings.
I would go to my local one, but its about an and hour and forty minutes away.. so not very local...
Sounds a bit like 3Dhubs that lets you have acces to the 3D printers of other people. Its kinda what I'm aiming for. If things work out you can basically get it printed in ABS at some random dudes place in your town or one near you.
I plan to have one printed at a local hub so I'm working on a model that can be done on these consumer printers.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2ibex6x.jpg)
Nipple faced upwards so there can be an airtight seal even if the printer leaves some grooves in it.
Getting some info on the printers, if its going to deal with the overhang itself or that I have to support it by a secondary structure.
That angle is good.
It breaks because it gets brittle.
my problem with doing it upwards is the flatness of the angle. 3d printers the best ones are only good up to like 0.05? if you print it flat, and slightly large, just hit it on a belt sander at 90 degrees. to flatten the grooves.
I can accept the need for sanding down the bottom because thats very easy and done in a matter of seconds. The nipple should be good to go because thats too much work and too hard to sand or polish. Everything else is just a visual aspect that doesnt really matter.
If the nipple was in its normal position, why not just add a thin rib along the bottom of the nipple? Like a yacht keel... just enough to support the print but could be trimmed out with a craft knife if it was abs or nylon?
Because it wont be anywhere near a perfect cilinder. When you put a hose around it there will be gaps over the length of the entire nipple -> it will leak air. When the nipple is faced upwards sure there may be a 1000 grooves on the nipple but every single one may be good enough to provide an airtight seal.
When the nipple is printed horizontally you get something like this
(http://i62.tinypic.com/27yq3b8.jpg)
exaggerated picture obviously but I guess you get the idea.
I assume this is less of a problem at shapeways/imaterialise etc because of the different technique they use to print nylon/metal and because they are more accurate.
Could you print me an entire, working GS, and give me the pricing on it?
:P
We'd give you an extra "special" price :cookoo:
Like many moons ago in high school. We didn't have a vending machine, so my buddy and I snuck in a mini fridge and started buying flats of 12oz cans for 8 cents a can. Seniors paid 50 cents / Juniors and Sophmores paid 75 / Freshman Paid $1.
We made off like bandits :woohoo: until we got busted :2guns:
Ahhh gotcha on the orientation situ! ... but. .. won't the inner parts be like the picture then?
You want a printed GS meelee? ... I thought you didn't like the one you have? :confused:
Quote from: Janx101 on May 25, 2015, 08:26:56 PM
Ahhh gotcha on the orientation situ! ... but. .. won't the inner parts be like the picture then?
Apart from the flat bottom the rest of the object can be as rough as anything because that doesnt have to provide an airtight seal by being in contact with something else. The material just has to be there and keep things together.
-edit
figuring out the support structures is going to be a pain in the ass. I'll leave that for the slicing software and we'll see what rolls out. I'm going to put out an order in a hub near my place (14 miles away). Its a guy with 2 Ultimaker2 printers able to put out ABS in high detail. He is pretty cheap too.
A single object will cost me $0,95 on material (yes you read that right). He asks for startup costs ($3,30) and some taxes ($1,32). Since the material cost is so cheap and startup costs stay the same I might as well order more than 1 piece. I'll get 2 horizontally placed models and 2 vertically placed models. Brings us to the staggering amount of $8,50 for a total of 4 parts. Then we'll see how well it turned out.
I did notice a potential problem, the glass temperature of the ABS filament used to print this kind of stuff is about 105 degrees and its printed at 200+ degrees. How well this stuff is going to hold up we have yet to see. I reckon stuff like Lego would hold up just fine and thats ABS so I got my hopes up. When we manage to print it I could conduct an experiment by springloading the part and simply put it behind the cilinderhead (I dont have carbs like this) of my GS500.
I will also perform an airtightness check.
Can I nominate this thread for top thread of 2015?
It's beyond cool.
Going to run into some delay, the printerguy changed the material to Colorfabb XT because he (guy is nice enough to think ahead gotta give him that) figured fuel + ABS may not be the best idea. Unfortunately heat resistance of this XT material is lower so I wouldnt want to try that as a first option. The order was already accepted and paid for because I noticed too late so I'm waiting for his response. I hope to have the parts in my hands before saturday.
Obviously we're going to add a chemical test to the list as well.
First off I'd like to thank everyone for the work they've put into this and for helping me save some money. Secondly, I don't think fuel goes through this part, it's a vacuum for air.
Yes I figured there is no liquid fuel going through. However it does not seem unlikely that (some) fuel vapor goes through it so something thats not fuel resistant may not be a good idea. I think we will be fine though.
I just had confirmation that they indeed are going to be produced in ABS so we are going to see the products very soon.
And for me its not just about saving a fellow motorcyclist some money. Its also about trying out some new things with new technology and supporting the substrate for whole 3D printing business to grow on. I guess there are few inventions in the world that became a common thing without being profitable. And for something thats still very rudimentary like 3D printing still is, new and usefull applications are required to keep this thing going.
If we succeed in getting a functional part out of this we could cut down cost of something with as much as 90% which is pretty crazy. People will become more aware and start coming up with more clever applications for 3D printing which is an incentive for improving the technology. Who knows where we could end up.
Quote from: kapiteinkoek on May 26, 2015, 10:04:51 AM
Yes I figured there is no liquid fuel going through. However it does not seem unlikely that (some) fuel vapor goes through it so something thats not fuel resistant may not be a good idea. I think we will be fine though.
I just had confirmation that they indeed are going to be produced in ABS so we are going to see the products very soon.
And for me its not just about saving a fellow motorcyclist some money. Its also about trying out some new things with new technology and supporting the substrate for whole 3D printing business to grow on. I guess there are few inventions in the world that became a common thing without being profitable. And for something thats still very rudimentary like 3D printing still is, new and usefull applications are required to keep this thing going.
If we succeed in getting a functional part out of this we could cut down cost of something with as much as 90% which is pretty crazy. People will become more aware and start coming up with more clever applications for 3D printing which is an incentive for improving the technology. Who knows where we could end up.
I have an ideal.
what if you used polychloroprene under the nipple? [neoprene] its stable around gas. I believe its not good around super high octane but if you put high octane in your GS, you're insane. :icon_rolleyes:
Kap! .. I have a question, since you mentioned molten plastic/abs before. . And then printed in steel etc. ... molten steel? That's a fair bit hotter than the plastic. ... so. .. same machine type? Or is the steel printing version the 'bigger industrial brother' machine?
Ask because you are currently one of the few people in regular contact? with this tech .. and we 'the plebs' are lacking understanding! :thumb:
This should get you started
Shapeways steel printing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9VOwqtOglg&hd=1
Shapeways nylon printing (like the throttle clip in the opening post)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBNGnfoGGfQ
Ultimaker printing (what is going to be done for me now)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk_8IcBVkRA
Or Walker? .. what say you? .. (sorry couldn't remember who else while I was doing prev on phone/tapa)...
Do they have different size/type machines for plastics/steel/glass? .. can they do glass?
Ooh vids! .. watch when home again. . Or it will burn my phone data up!
I believe shapeways offered glass a while back but I don't see it available anymore. Its possible for sure.
This thread should be stickied.
Quote from: MeeLee on May 25, 2015, 04:45:41 PM
Could you print me an entire, working GS, and give me the pricing on it?
:P
That's how the regular GS is made innit ???
Cool.
Buddha.
Noooo.... c'mon Buddha! Random parts bins! ;)
Got a call from my printerguy today because he was really worried about printing it and its functionality when its done. Apparently printing ABS is a Buddha Loves You because you need to run it very hot (260 degrees C), while the printbed is about 100 and everything in between is pretty much roomtemperature. This can cause the plastic to shrink, deform and crack. He was also worried about the airtightness because I told him why the nipple had to be printed upwards, what its for and everything. Apparently the products are not always airtight. He is still going to try though and hes also going to print me a set in some PLA/PHA material just so I can see the difference!
If the material is not airtight I believe it should not be hard to fix with a simple surface treatment (e.g. submerge it in your wifes nail polish remover or something else like that).
Quote from: kapiteinkoek on May 27, 2015, 04:30:17 AM
If the material is not airtight I believe it should not be hard to fix with a simple surface treatment (e.g. submerge it in your wifes nail polish remover or something else like that).
I do a lot of prototyping with 3D printed parts where I work, and it isn't uncommon for us to do a light sanding and use epoxy and/or a shellac or polyurethane (or even just paint for less-critical applications) to seal it pretty well and make it perform a bit more like an injection-molded part--although I cannot speak to performance at high temps, mechanical properties slightly improve. Here is a quick link I found that may be helpful:
http://nrqm.ca/2012/11/waterproofing-3d-prints-epoxy-cla/
EDIT: Hydrocarbon exposure being a concern, you may have better luck with nylon 6/6 (although after a nice thick surface finish with polyurethane, who cares!). Although printing ABS is more difficult, as long as it's done relatively well, you'll be thankful for the toughness advantage over PLA, which tends to be more brittle but has better printed part dimension stability.
wouldn't it be possible to drill the nipple hole afterwards? That might make manufacturing of the part easier
The hole itself is no problem at all so there is no need for that.
If you want the hole to have really exact dimensions, another technique we use is undersizing the hole by somewhere around half the filament thickness (on perpendicular holes). That way, you can take a sharp drill bit with your hand and finish it off exactly to spec in critical areas. The printing at an angle technique to get the important hole perpendicular is spot on! Although your mounting holes may come out a little goofy looking, undersizing a little more than normal will get you a nice round drill hole.
If anyone needs a part modeled in solidworks or some design advice for strengthening (with gussets, etc.) I'd be happy to help! Like I said, I do this sort of stuff for a living, just not usually on motorcycles :laugh: mostly big ol' machines.
b-but arent our m-motorcycles big machines then :cry:
Being under 6ft/180lbs myself, the little 500 is plenty big for me! :cheers:
Ah what can I say, not much I guess. I'm 6'5 hehe.
Just got the message that the parts are printed so I'll pick them up tomorrow. He didnt print them in PLA/PHA because apparently the straight up ones came out good!
Even got myself a preview:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/33xah6g.png)
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140830223144/fallout/images/f/f1/Shit_just_got_real.jpg)
Quote from: Janx101 on May 26, 2015, 11:36:02 AM
Or Walker? .. what say you? .. (sorry couldn't remember who else while I was doing prev on phone/tapa)...
Do they have different size/type machines for plastics/steel/glass? .. can they do glass?
printing stainless uses a lazor. more exact, sharks with lazors to swim around a pool and zap in your stainless part... :thumb:
No but really, the stainless steel parts are basically zapped into cords and all that good stuffs. its a powder. kinda like gun powder/smokeless powder would look like. with a binder added.. basically if you've ever used one of those cheapo ceramic cut off wheels for a dremel or die grinder the stainless steel is basically made exactly the same way those are. expect those are "cast" they mix a big batch of ceramic powder and other oxides and then add in a super special epoxy.
realistically the binder used is the strength. of the part...
How OPs having these printed is not exactly how I would done it either. I would have the part printed into a negative mold and then come up with a plastic or epoxy that was safe around gasoline. vacuum out all the air from the mold and let the plastic cool/epoxy set off... but there many ways to cook a steak.
I'm looking for the easiest way to get this done. The easiest way is clicking on some buttons on the internet, sit on your ass and wait for the replacement to come to your door.
I like the negative mold idea though. Would probably be easy to print it in something like PLA then fill it up with some sort of resin and wait for it to cure. Cut away the PLA and there you go. You would need something that doesnt react with the PLA.
But lets see what the cheapest and easiest option will do.
That looks tight!
It is :laugh:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/eiukg.png)
So that's printed? Bloody magic! :thumb:
Ooooh. .. glass printing... custom chess pieces! Or. .. hmmm. . Coloured glass for dash light covers?!
The stainless process sounds awesome! ... however for the poetry of the concept I will imagine sharks with lasers do it! :)
That looks really good!
Airtightness does not seem to be a problem. I mounted it on a piece of wood with some rubber in between and put a hose on it. Submerged it in water and put some airpressure on it and the only place where bubbles started to come from at some point was around the nipple. Probably because the hose isnt really tight on there, the diameter is too large but I dont have anything else atm. I'm also worried about the brittleness of the nipple. Basically its made of a whole bunch of stacked up rings and I can imagine it snapping when there is a hose on it and its vibrating and everything.
Apart from the nipple it appears to be a strong enough piece of plastic to do the job.
Will try more stuff and report back later.
Quote from: kapiteinkoek on May 27, 2015, 01:05:02 PM
I'm looking for the easiest way to get this done. The easiest way is clicking on some buttons on the internet, sit on your ass and wait for the replacement to come to your door.
I like the negative mold idea though. Would probably be easy to print it in something like PLA then fill it up with some sort of resin and wait for it to cure. Cut away the PLA and there you go. You would need something that doesnt react with the PLA.
But lets see what the cheapest and easiest option will do.
Well you can print the part, use silicone around the part. then cast from the silicone?
I wish I had access to a 3d printer. I would be printing all sorts of motorcycle parts.. :thumb:
Quote from: J_Walker on May 28, 2015, 10:49:09 AM
I wish I had access to a 3d printer. I would be printing all sorts of motorcycle parts.. :thumb:
You kinda do. I got this done through 3dhubs.com where you have acces to the printer of other people. If you look at the price of a decent printer and the filaments you need you probably are never going to break even. Much cheaper to let somebody else do it.
Quote from: kapiteinkoek on May 28, 2015, 12:29:19 PM
Quote from: J_Walker on May 28, 2015, 10:49:09 AM
I wish I had access to a 3d printer. I would be printing all sorts of motorcycle parts.. :thumb:
You kinda do. I got this done through 3dhubs.com where you have acces to the printer of other people. If you look at the price of a decent printer and the filaments you need you probably are never going to break even. Much cheaper to let somebody else do it.
I'll stick to my rotary tools, hammers and files. :cheers:
;) time for a brief Aussie thread derail!..
Rotary tools? . A lawnmower is http://youtu.be/nOjk9RCzg9Y (http://youtu.be/nOjk9RCzg9Y)sort of a tool right? .. check this out! :)
Stupid tapatalk!
Quote from: Janx101 on May 28, 2015, 03:13:05 PM
;) time for a brief Aussie thread derail!..
Rotary tools? . A lawnmower is http://youtu.be/nOjk9RCzg9Y (http://youtu.be/nOjk9RCzg9Y)sort of a tool right? .. check this out! :)
OH THOSE AUSSIES and their lawn mower racing...!
I wanna see what those builders of that V8 2 stroke did with that baby...
Quote from: J_Walker on May 28, 2015, 01:26:43 PM
I'll stick to my rotary tools, hammers and files. :cheers:
I'll be saying in 30 years "I'll stick to my 3D scanners, Design Software (CAD/Reverse Engineering), and 3D Printers" while something else innovative is taking over.
So...about getting this piece on my bike?
Maybe they were printed in unobtanium? !
I sure hope not lol
maybe he could upload the files he used to print them? so at least someone can print it else where?
also I was watching a youtube video yesterday and they where 3d printing. and using delrin?!?! you can 3d print DELRIN?! I might have to get me one just for that!
OP, if you can find someone who can 3d print delrin. while I'm not sure about the heat levels it can withstand, I know its good around gasoline!
Or depending on the shipping costs I can buy the one he printed.
Just wanted to throw this out there since a lot of people seem interested in 3D printing. Obviously, home models are available (expensive... around $2k+) and not quite as accurate. I would check your local establishments to see if there are any print shops nearby that can print your renderings. There is a library 30 minutes from my house that allows FREE 3D printing. I'm pretty decent with SketchUp and had some help learning the other rendering tools necessary to print. I haven't yet printed any parts for my bike, but I have printed a small magnetic generator model (not truly functional, simply to demonstrate the physics of magnets). It's nowhere near a sophisticated as some of the professional printers, but free is free.
Haven't forgotten about you guys eh. The ABS parts printed on a consumer type printer cannot be used on the bike instantly. The material itself is strong enough, is airtight and the printer (ultimaker 2 in this case) has sufficiënt accuracy. There is a problem with the nipple though because It indeed is way too brittle. Already snapped one when trying its strength. Basically the adhesion between layers of the nipple has only a thickness of 0,3mm or something because the material cools down too fast.
I'm now going to conduct an experiment where I put the part in some liquid modelling plaster and put it in the oven at 250 degrees C for a bit. The plaster will keep the ABS in the right shape while the temperature will make it soft and hopefully increase strength of the adhesion between layers. I already put it in more than a week ago and I'm waiting for the water to evaporate or react with the plaster so it won't boil before reaching 250 degrees. Probably can give it a try this week.
Awesome. Thanks for the update.
Quick question. The only problem here seems to be that the nipple is not strong enough?
Why not just change the design? Increase the width of D8 and the height of T8. Print it with a hole through it instead of the nipple.
Tap the hole and screw in a metal nipple. You could even use some kind of bonding agent to seal the thread permanently.
Bonus with this is that it will only need to be replaced again if the body itself is damaged.
Looking at some of these projects, makes me want to have my own printer!
I wanted this for many years already!
Perhaps soon!
I know there are 2 types of plastic to print,
PLA and ABS.
One is harder and more brittle than the other.
My only concern of this is, that most of these plastics don't work well with heat; and thus aren't a good candidate for engine pieces.
Well they arent exactly engine pieces, only located close to it. I thought about making a hole then simply screw in a metal nipple, I guess thats an option indeed. The easiest option probably depends on what stuff you have lying around or can get your hands on.
I'd like to see a metal printed version from shapeways but unfortunately thats a $36 experiment. Being a poor student thats too much for an experiment for me :tongue2:
Probably creating custom mirror covers, small body panels, hose clip-ons to clip hoses or cables into place would be possible as well.
Trunk mounting plates (adaptor pieces for trunk mounts), air filter boxes, toolbox, battery holder, handlebar C-pieces to convert from 6/8" to 1in grippers (like handlebar mounts for dash-cam, or windshield).
If it's printed thick enough you could also print body panels that will cover your feet and legs, so they won't get wet in the rain or cold in the wind, and add aerodynamics.
Not sure for a motorcycle, if there is a lot more you can print.
You can't print anything that is a part of the engine, transmission or drivetrain.
Perhaps a GPS or phone mount, so you can mount your phone under the windshield, so it can display the GPS to you.
The part is in the oven right now so we'll see what happens.
-edit
wel as expected it indeed increases adhesion strength between layers. Unfortunately the part doesnt stay as well in shape as I hoped. Apparently there are enough voids in the material to make it sag within the mold rendering it useless.
So this brings us to the conclusion that an ABS printed part isn't going to work 'out of the box'. The nipple remains a critical point which is the problem in the first place. I figure there are a whole bunch of other options available for anyone to try.
Just to name a few:
- Have it printed in metal (shapeways). A bit expensive maybe ($30-40).
- Have it printed in PLA and bring it to someone that can do come lost-form casting. Probably needs some polishing work afterewards.
- Have somebody with a lathe produce the part in metal, probably without nipple. Drill a hole and screw in a nipple yourself.
A metal part will last the lifetime of the bike.
An ABS printed part would still be possibility if you screw in a metal nipple yourself. I could make a model without a nipple and some 'flesh' to drill a hole in and screw in a nipple. I dont know where to acquire such a nipple though (local garage maybe, some fish tank shop, fuel powered RC toys place). I believe they are used on some bikes to synchronize the carbs. Maybe the cheapest option if you dont have a friend that does lost form casting or has a lathe or something like that. Like I posted before a hub near me asks $0,95 for a part and less than $5 handling costs. I figure a nipple shouldnt be more expensive.
(http://www.z1enterprises.com/images/parts/Z1E_0971.JPG)
Something like that
You should be able to find a suitable nipple from a pneumatic or hydraulics supply store but may have to thread it.
If the nipple has some sort of relief you dont even need a thread. You can install it the same way I installed one of my broken tachometer legs. Grab it with some pliers, get it very hot on your gas stove (or some other nice burner) and push in into the plastic. When hot enough the plastic will shortly become liquid and form closely around the metal piece.
I haven't posted on the forum in quite a while, but found this thread while searching for the exact part that has become the main topic of discussion due to breaking the functional nipple on one of my stock units. I ended up purchasing two in metal, but while waiting for them to ship, drilled out the solid nipple and plugged the hole from the broken side and continued riding with the repaired part. When the parts from Shapeways did arrive, I found that the center to center distance for the mounting holes was not the same as the stock part. In order to make the parts from Shapeways useable, some rework will be required - at a minimum, one of the mounting holes will need to be elongated. The internal dimensions may need some attention too, though that will be determined when I take my bike apart again and actually do a thorough dimensional inspection of both parts and identify the other discrepant features. This isn't meant to disparage the efforts of kapiteinkoek and Slack, but to offer some feedback of the existing as-built hardware.
If you like you can measure the shapeways part (e.g. the mountinghole distance) and post the results here and also post what needs to be adjusted and how much. I can easily adjust the model and update it on shapeways. For now I have disabled sales thing on shapeways until we get it right. Its supposed to be a plug&play part after all.
Oh, and I forgot: Got some pictures of the printed parts? :cheers:
Here are photos of the printed parts. There are some dimensional discrepancies between the OEM parts and these ones, but aside from the mounting hole spacing, they do not appear to impede function.
(http://i.imgur.com/H3Qxaxy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7Axfor5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/h0DyyOF.jpg)
The stock parts have a mounting hole diameter of 0.173" and a center to center distance of 1.469". The printed parts have a mounting hole diameter of 0.160" and a center to center distance of 1.386".
They look really awesome! I will update the model and reupload them to shapeways soon.
-edit
I updated the model. Increased hole diameter slightly and made the holes longer. This way some distortion in the final product should be no problem for the position of the bolts. I used the pictures k.rollin posted, if you don't like that I will remove them from the product page. Did give you credit though ;)
http://shpws.me/Kixo
rage - did you get your part?
1) you could disable the emissions crap on your bike and then no need to fix the vacuum fitting, the part is used to apply vacuum to a pilot valve that vents the top of the carb and sinks the needle for a leaner mixture under some conditions.
2) we could swap parts, you send me your broken fitting and I send you a good one (you cover mail).
I disabled my emissions stuff when I went header, lunchbox, pair block offs and re-jet on my 2009 so I have two that are unused, just caps for the carb now.
wow! How cool!!! :thumb:
Got my parts in by mid December been great so far, I can only say they'll definitely outlast the life of the bike.
Here's the imgur album to supplement my post.
Used IRC never was a fan of forums though, http://imgur.com/a/P1O8m (http://imgur.com/a/P1O8m).
I can't thank Kapitien enough for uploading this onto his shapeways account, this saved me from buying a new carburetor set, used to say that 3D printing wasn't for anything other than hobbies but now that's starting to change my view.
Thats awesome :woohoo:
Can I use one of the pictures at the shapeways product page so people can see the result?
(https://s3.postimg.org/abm5qoe6r/madslides.png)
Carburetor slides are now printable too although I don't recommend doing it yet. Metal ones are too expensive and plastic ones are untested. In case of failure your engine will probably get damaged beyond repair because the whole shazam gets sucked inside. You can find them here (http://shpws.me/MzDu).
Somebody gave me second GS500 for free. It's got some wear on the carburetor slides. Right now I'll try to polish them up for a bit. If the bike turns out to be a money pit (e.g. it uses too much oil) and not worth fixing I'll consider putting in these nylon 3D printed sliders and blast the shaZam! out of them to see how they hold up. God knows they might even work. They would be 70% cheaper than original slides.
Bumping up this old cow because somebody ordered some nipple caps again this weekend. So far 6 units have been produced and shipped since august '15 and apparently 3 more will be crafted soon for this weekends order. 7 throttle clips were bought as well as 4 throttle slide guides (may and august '16). I have received no feedback either positive or negative from any of the buyers. Was wondering if its any of you guys that have ordered it because it would be good to know how things are holding up. Unfortunately Shapeways doesn't pass through any buyer information so I can't send out a message to ask how things are going.
I elongated the mounting holes on the pair that I bought, before you updated the model, but I haven't actually used them yet. So far, the stock part that I broke then reused by melting the hole shut and drilling the solid nipple is still holding up. I'll probably throw the metal parts on the next time I get into the carburetors though.
Get a life.