The Keltec  you describe is what I usuallly have n hand.  It is an interesting piece of work, and a fairly good firearm.  

Shadowhawk

I have mounted a couple of RPGs on the front forks, just in case I see a rabbit or pheasant (in season) and modified the rear footpegs, dumped the Givi replacing it with a swivel mount for my stripped Lewis gun from a WW1 biplane fighter, the passenger faces backwards and gets the stuff I miss. Cool huh?

Wow, this thread got big fast.I've had a CCW since I was 22 years old.I did have to use a handgun in self defense once when a crazy SOB smashed his way into my house about 11:00 one night.I didn't have to shoot him, but held him at gun point until the police arrived.
   I once met a guy that was into mountain biking.He told me he always carried a handgu. I asked him why, and he told me once he was out biking in the woods not far from Puyallup, Wa.He was, at one point, surrounded by a pack of wild dogs.These dogs had every intention of having him for lunch it seems.He shot one, and the noise disbursed them.He could have just as easily have been riding a dirt bike, or dual sport bike.
   The third point I want to make to those of you that think guns are only for killing people is this:I have probably fired 10,000 rounds either in competition, or to develope hand loads for accuracy and competition.I was also born and raised around firearms and firearm safetey.I don't hunt because I don't enjoy killing animals (but I am not anti-hunting), and in all this time and shots fired, I have never shot at, hit, or killed another person with a firearm.
   I have often carried.I have to open the place I work at, in the early AM by myself, in a very bad neighborhood(4:00 am or 5:30 am).
   By the way, my carry gun is a Charter Arms .44 Bulldog. I don't generally carry when I ride.

Quote from: Cal PriceI have mounted a couple of RPGs on the front forks, just in case I see a rabbit or pheasant (in season) and modified the rear footpegs, dumped the Givi replacing it with a swivel mount for my stripped Lewis gun from a WW1 biplane fighter, the passenger faces backwards and gets the stuff I miss. Cool huh?

Brilliant -- very funny!  Not because I think you really did (or really would) do it, but because of the imagination and the well-crafted writing:

just in case I see a rabbit or pheasant  

(in season)  

the passenger faces backwards and gets the stuff I miss  

Cool huh?  :lol: [/list:u]I don't know - maybe it's just the way British folks have of saying things.  But I had a good belly laugh over the ludicrous mental image it conjured up.

Cheers Kerry,
I normally try to keep out of the U.S. domestic gun debate, different situation, different problems etc,. but I could not resist that one.

Incidently I don't have anything against the hunting of edible prey but folks wantdering about with concealed handguns is a concept I find difficult to grasp as is Oscar Wilde's "Unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible" (The English gent foxhunting)

'Nuf said, I shall keep out of it, Horses for Courses and all that.

Birdmove: I've read about the C.A. .44 Bulldog before. Quite potent for being a relatively small revolver. Is it hard to find ammo in .44 Special? Do you load your own cartridges?

I can appreciate that some of our friends from overseas, Canada, and the blue states might feel a bit concerned about their safety while visiting the well-armed south. Rest assured that you're in no danger. A study commissioned by the State of Florida found that Concealed Carry permit holders were FAR more law-abiding than non-CCW holders as a whole, and were involved in firearms related felonies at less than 1/100 of the rate of non-CCW holders.

I carry for 2 primary reasons:

1. We've got critters down here that may try to eat you.
2. I haven't figured out how to lock the doors on my GS500 yet.

Hope you're all having a lovely day.

what are you talking about its not a fact that where concealed carry is legal that murder rate is higher.  In fact its the opposite its where carry is banned or by permit only that murder rate is higher.  
New York - permit only
Baltimore- permit only  hard as hell to get a permit
LA- Same
Colorado except denver- non concealed carry acceptable concealed carry ok by easy to get pemit
Vermont- all carry ok no permit required
Texas- similar to CO

You see the trend ?lets take take CO for example low murder rate overall most happens in denver where the carry laws are stricter.  Look at the other places low murder/crime rate where concealed and open carry is acceptable.  Where the hell do you see higher murder rates in places with loose carry laws in the US.

Quote from: bcutrufelli
You see the trend ?

yes, I see the trend... but keep in mind that correlation[/i] and causation[/i] are two different things.  There can be plenty of correlation without a true cause and effect relationship.  The chicken/egg argument applies here:  

One group will say that having loose carry laws makes the community safer.  i.e. the guns caused the region to be safer.

The other will say that locations like CO and TX are mostly rural, and the criminal element just plain isn't there to begin with, so granting the right to carry doesn't jeapordize public safety as much as it would in, say, D.C. where the criminal element is much more prevalent. i.e. the unsafe region caused the gun laws to be strict.

who is right?  I don't know ... and I don't particularly care.


as for me: I pick my battles, and convincing the rest of the country to change their minds isn't on my plate right now.  I just choose to live where I can carry.  That's what I love about this country, you don't like the laws in one state, you can just move across the border...

viva states-rights!!!  

Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special. You can get factory ammo.The gun is pretty light, so 180-200 grain bullets is about right.Mine likes 200 grain lead hollow points.This puts me in the "large diameter buulet at moderate velocity" group, rather than the small dia. at faster speeds club.I believe in the .44 and .45 calibers.

   Birdmove

Look at the stats: in the US there are an average of about a billion murders anually in which firearms were used, and in the UK there are about 1% of that per capita.  So that means that while guns may make you feel safer, in actuality there is a greater chance that you will die by the hands of a gun toter.

Oh yeah, I own a 30-30 Winchester.

I carry either a j frame 357snubby or a GL26 more or less everywhere I go.  I have found through trial and error a few ways to carry with at least a degree of safety on a motorcycle.  
1.  Shoulder Holsters are great for concealment, but they do hurt.  Around the city is fine, long trips will be quite annoying.
2.  Inside the pants holsters are out out out.  It is way too easy for the jacket to ride up and *ping* there is your sidearm for everyone to see and freak the frak out about.  
3.  Inside the pocket holsters, sewn either into a jacket pocket (preferred) or a pants or cargo pocket, work best.  They provide excellent concealability with reasonably fast draw times.  The drawback is, you usually have to fabricate or modify them yourself.  ALWAYS INCLUDE EITHER A RETENTION OR THUMBSTRAP, AND TRY NOT TO CARRY A CHAMBERED WEAPON UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.
-Remember, too, that there are lots of less-lethal alternatives if firearms make you nervy.  OC/CS aerosols (FOX5point3 brand is best) are non lethal, extremely effective, and do not require a CCW.  Collapsible batons or kali sticks can be ordered from GALL's incorporated (google it).  These things are great, IF you know how to use one.  
FINALLY, if you are travelling in an area where your personal safety is that much of a concern, you might want to think about why the hell youre going there anyway, hmmm?

Quote from: DomLook at the stats: in the US there are an average of about a billion murders anually in which firearms were used, and in the UK there are about 1% of that per capita.  So that means that while guns may make you feel safer, in actuality there is a greater chance that you will die by the hands of a gun toter.

So about 3 times the number of people who live in the US are murdered every year with firearms?  Well, can't argue with statistics .

Nope you can't argue with the stats. In this country most people die in Hospital, the second highest number is in their own beds. Therefore if you are felling unwell do NOT go near a Hospital or your bed as statistically they are the most dangerous places to be.

This gun discussion is really fascinating. I'm pleased to see that the folks who either support or actually do carry are for the most part admonishing any kind of carelessness when it comes to the act. It's good to see a lot of thoughtful posts on the issue.
At the risk of throwing this topic straight into the Odds n' Ends forum, how difficult is it to obtain a license, or permit, or what have you for a gun?
if it's as easy as my permit test for operating a motor vehicle (read: large, high speed projectile) was, then I'm a little concerned.
I haven't had much experience with firearms aside from growing up in the country and using my older brother's .22 rifle for recreational target shooting, and am pretty much clueless as to what safeguards the law provides to make sure people who own, let alone carry in public, firearms are competent (in all the ways they should be)
and just to ensure some REALLY long responses, are the hurdles for being able to carry in public much higher?
Specifically to those carrying out there who have gone through the tests: with disregard for the firearm on your person protecting you, do you feel secure that the safeguards in place (license, permit, waiting period, and whatever else or lack thereof) will prevent the unstable/homocidal/etc people from getting them? I don't mean criminals per se, as the argument is that they're the ones who get them illegally anyway, but more like that guy down the street with the short fuse whose a little off-kilter to begin with, maybe worse so than we think.

Thanks for the great discussion, it almost makes the fact that my bike's put away for the winter bearable. (there, a motorcycle reference. the thread stays!)

Regards,
Riz

Birdmove: No arguing with the superior terminal ballistics of the big rounds. Much less concern about overtravel too.

Hysyde636: Excellent suggestion about securing a pocket holster. My DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster fits pretty snugly inside my FirstGear HT Air overpants, but a few well-placed stitches certainly can't hurt.

Riz: Licensing requirements are determined on a state-by-state basis. In New York, obtaining a pistol permit is a laborious process, and your chances of success are dependant upon the political leanings of your local judicial district. You are more likely to succeed if you live in a rural county rather than an urban one (I grew up in Syracuse where the local judge refused all permits no matter what).

In Florida and most other states, you do not need a permit to own a pistol or a rifle, but you do need a permit to carry one concealed. Regardless of where you live, all firearm purchasers are checked against the FBI's  NICS database of felons and other persons not legally permitted to own a weapon.

To obtain a concealed carry permit in Florida, a person needs to submit to a background check, get fingerprinted by the local sheriff, pay a hefty fee, take a safety class, and pass an accuracy exam at a firing range.

I can't comment about other states, but in Florida, CCW permit holders are far more law abiding than the average citizen.

Riz:  In good ol' Kentucky, and probably in other states as well, you DO NOT NEED a permit to carry UNCONCEALED.  This basically means that any Kentuckian who is not a convicted felon or convicted domestic offender, who is above the age of 18, can carry a handgun unconcealed in any place that does not have an ordanance banning such an action.  This does not, however, apply to vehicles.
W/O a permit, there must be three steps between your hand and the firearm, or you are guilty of a Carrying Concealed Deadly Weapon violation, and will go to jail, and have your weapon confiscated.  This means, if the gun is locked in a saddlebag (or in a locked case in the saddlebag) with the magazine out, it is legal (stop bike, get gun from case, load gun).  However, this does you absolutely no good when JoeBob Psychopath decides to carve his name into your chest.