i've had my gs500 sitting for awhile, and the time was nigh to do what needed to be done. now after 2 years of sitting, i expected some less than ideal things, but damn! the cables are frozen, the ls manifold cracked off when i pulled the carbs, and about 200 spiders and insects were squatting in choice places. this all seemed bad, and i felt some guilt for being so negligent. but i had not seen the gastank yet. had i known what was in there, waiting, i never would have slept so peacefully before.

did you ever see that david lynch fim eraserhead? remember the part where he goes to dinner, and the dad serves those tiny chicken things that turn into sludge when cut open? that sludge is no fiction, it has manisfested it's evil in my tank. when the black evil flowed out, it seriously looked like mud. how did this get in there?

after i cleaned it out, i poured some tank clean (a por-15 product) mixed 1:1 with hot water. this appears to be doing nothing. ill sum it up with some questions.
1. how did so much dirt get in my tank?
2. how do i get the corrosion out?
3. what special work needs to be done on the engine, if any, to make  it  run after so long being ignored(ie will rust be in the engine)?
4. can the cables be salvaged by lubricating?
5. what work needs to be done on the brakes? i know the lines were supposed to be replaced after 4 years, but what about seals and such?
6. why do i like to smoke cigarettes and damage my body? could this be some kind of compensation for an unmet need from an early age?
7. if i have been inhaling gas fumes and i light a cigarette, could my head/lungs/heart explode?


thanks for your help, any information would be appreciated, esp. regarding particular problems which might arise from a bike having sat in a semi-outdoor(covered shed without sides) area for a very very embarassingly long amount of time by someone who does not regard himself as having anything in common with hippys, yet has managed to make their work ethic his own in his lack of care for a certain motor vehicle that he used to love.

if the motor was sealed from the elements that will be good, however the manifold being split and insects living in it ... = no seal and there fore ... the inside of the tank = inside of engine ...
OK how would you look wihtout taking apart the thing ...
I would remove carbs and manifold, spark plugs and exhaust and make sure all the bugs are away ... Then pour some motor oil ... light 10/30 or somehitng in the cylinders and shine a light in the intake and look in the plug hole, and shine in exhaust and look in plug and intake ... etc etc ... like all over as much as you can ... you need to turn themotor over for this a few times .. and that hopefully happens and its not stuck ... then if it all checks good then I'll try turning it without plugs using the starter ... which will spit oil everywhere ... the 10 30 you put in that is ... then probably try a compression test, open valve cover and set the valves and look for rust etc there, clean carbs ... new manifolds, clean tank ... yea I use full strength Muriatic acid ... but it will eat aluminum... so be careful and it smokes and stinks and ...
Cool.
Srinath.

I couldn't say about the "dirt", but rust would make sense if you parked the bike with a partially empty tank of gas.

Air contains water vapor, which condenses into liquid water when it gets cold enough.  Water settles to the bottom, and eventually turns steel into rust.

on a scale of one to ten, what are the chances of someone with very marginal mechanical acumen totally ruining their rusty tank with muriatic acid(10 being certain)? where can you get it? thanks for the prompt reply, btw.

on a scale of 1-10 it's a 14, if you say pretty please Srinath will probably do it for you.

OK I can send you some of the nifty things I made to do it ... wiht the main component being inner tube ... but sending it to me isn't probably going to gain you much ... Well ... I am darn good at doing Kreem though ... so if you did send it, and I managed to get past the cleaning stage without a fist sized hole in it ... OK then I'll send you back a well kreemed tank...
Muriatic acid - Home depot ... or Lowes.
Also need Acetone - also same place.
Kreem ... need the white part only ... cycle gear.
I dont like anything else ... POR15, yamaha tank shaZam! ... all of those suck IMHO.
Muriatic acid is strong and will probably drive the whole town to the ER ... but will work ... other than that fist sized hole part. If you want me to do it ... OK $50 including labor and parts ... with ~$25 being parts ... and $25 labor... and shipping to be added of course.
Mifgt as well have me sort your carbs out too ... that is $40 ... P&L ... and shipping extra.
Cool.
Srinath.

Muriatic acid is what most non industry people would call HCl or Hydrochloric acid. 13 Molar Concentrated HCl is one of the strongest acids out there. Notice that I said 13 Molar (Ph 1)... where am I going with this??? You can dilute it and make it safe and easier to work with.

I woud find a rusty nail and toss it in a glass jar. Pour into the jar a 1/2 cup of water and SLOWLY add a 1/2 cup HCl. Then I would time how long it takes the 50% dilution to make the nail shine again.
You can then titrate the mixture up or down to shorten or lengthen the cleaning time.
Note: You can use HCl without adding any water, but I thing It would be harder to control.
Note2: There is a certain energy of activation for every reaction, so if you dilute the acid too much it wont work anymore (no matter how long you waight for.
Note3:If you get any on yourself don't panic it's not the end of the world, just make shure you wash the point of contact with fresh water for a minute or two.

This tank talk reminded me to bring up a question regarding the GS tank.

While draining the project's tank due to a leak at a weld (pics at my webpage in the photoalbums section), it occurred to me that the very edges of the tank are below the pickup of the petcock. Seems like a great place for crap and water to accumulate and cause rust.

Srinath, when you Kreem a tank, do these "crap pits" get filled?

It seems to me that anything below the level of the pickup is asking for trouble and not really part of the real capacity of the tank.

If Srinath will do the deed for $50, like Mr. James' tatoo says "Pay Up Sucker" because he needs the income. That's cheap and after the first of the year I may just send mine to him. Once done, it should be a life of the bike kind of thing.

BTW, what does sugar look like after it has been in a tank? Black Evil?

I once took an extra-large malted-milk drinking straw, and duct-taped it into a shop vac hose.  I was able to get the end of the straw in through a sparkplug hole and move it around a bit, to try to suck up any light bits which might be sitting in the cylinder (e.g. spiders).  I'm not sure that it really worked, but it's worth a shot.

After that, if you're going to check valves anyways, then I'd do that before turning the engine over.  It sounds like you're going to want to clean-out the airbox, carbs, and pull the valve cover.  Who knows, maybe there's a spider nest up above the valves too.  See Kerry's video for how to check the valves (http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13483).

After checking under the valve cover for cruft, then you can put some oil into the cylinders (through the sparkplug holes) and try turning the engine over slowly by turning the rear wheel.  As Srinath said, the oil will burp out the sparkplug holes, but will hopefully lube things up a bit in the process.

Then I'd put the valve cover back on, the carbs and airbox back on, and put in new sparkplugs.  You're going to want to fire it up (if only to motivate yourself to do the finishing touches).  Rather than using the old fuel tank, you can hang a $7 "radiator overflow tank" from the handlebars (http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=115957#115957)  and run it to the lower T on the carbs using a new 5/16" fuel hose from the lawnmower section at Home Depot (or motorcycle parts shop).  

Your battery probably needs some TLC.  What I do is take out the battery, and put a 2x4 across the frame, and screw the positive and negative battery cables down using wood screws.  Then I hook up jumper cables to an old car battery.

The bike may not want to start that first time.  There are some things you can do:  remove the plugs and clean-off the electrodes in-between unsuccessful attempts.  Undergap the plugs a bit to help them burn-off the oil you put in.  Give a little shot of starting fluid (ether) if necessary.  Once the bike is running, you'll have alot more motivation to get the battery watered and trickle-charged, and to get the tank cleaned-out and sealed, and the fuel hoses replaced, and a filter added.

Quote from: starwaltThis tank talk reminded me to bring up a question regarding the GS tank.

While draining the project's tank due to a leak at a weld (pics at my webpage in the photoalbums section), it occurred to me that the very edges of the tank are below the pickup of the petcock. Seems like a great place for crap and water to accumulate and cause rust.

Srinath, when you Kreem a tank, do these "crap pits" get filled?

It seems to me that anything below the level of the pickup is asking for trouble and not really part of the real capacity of the tank.

If Srinath will do the deed for $50, like Mr. James' tatoo says "Pay Up Sucker" because he needs the income. That's cheap and after the first of the year I may just send mine to him. Once done, it should be a life of the bike kind of thing.

BTW, what does sugar look like after it has been in a tank? Black Evil?

OK those crap pits  ... freaking nightmare ... why ... the thing is invisible... and the lowest point on the tank ... and every dirt and water makes its way there ... and I have seen seemingly good tanks with so much rust there ... I press there and it blows a hole ...
With the acid etch process you would get the crap out of there ... and hopefully you haven't blown a hole there ... now acid will eat rust very rapidly but steel gets eaten much much much much slower ... 5 mins in the acid = no rust and literally un touched base metal ... so at the acid step use it right out the bottle and I believe its 33% ... then if the crap pit is not all holed up ... whoooo hooo ...
The pit isn't filled up per say, but I have a method where I can make the tank air tight and the evaporating acteone will lightly pressurise the innards ... and that will help drive in the kreem into the crevises ... and I make sure that those parts get coverage... good coverage ...
The idea with kreem is ... you cant drop the whole bottle in in 1 shot. I'll do 2-3 oz at a time ... and there will be a good 5-6 oz of acetone in it at the start ... so that will make a runny solution and help get a thin coat everywhere ... and repeat .... till the whole bottle is done. Many thin coats are better than 1 thick one ... so the thick one will be not uniformly thick... and will want to peel off ... had it happen ... freaking nightmare to get it out and re do it ... If the tank is clean I'll actually do just 1/3 of the kreem and thin coat it everywhere ... but if its rusted to hell and back ... you'd have to do to the end ...
Cool.
Srinath.

Yea dont have to send it to me cos I need the $$ ... the shaZam! is hard to do ... and well its industrial strength stink will drive your neighbors to the ER ... I do it in the fabrication shop's backyard ... where rotting car skeletons haven't attracted the local constabulary ... so I guess its safe to say that it is expected ...
Cool.
Srinath.

for some reason I have the sudden urge just to go buy some Muriatic acid and dissolve various things from around my apartment....  :dunno:


Hmmm, I wonder what it would do to those little $2 motorcycle 'models' from Wallyworlds?  Srinath, pics? hehe :mrgreen:

kreme is ok, but you must be use to working with it, ive seen kreme jobs seporate from the inside of the tank(got to be super clean, and etched).  Por 15 is much like kreme in the sense it will seal but agian,  got to clean and etch the inside of the tank properly.

in the past i have used a few items to patch tanks, temporyary fixes including a sheet metal screw through a chunk of rubber into the hole, wooden doul, and even a bar of soap (yeah i said soap)

tank puttys i have found dont live up to claims, Bondo? please, JB weld, works well but must be cleaned and roughed suface, 2 part plasic epox (clear/yellow liquids) not very good, fiberglass? (yeah seen it used) temp at best, dont bump it, ever. but my favorite has to be marine tex. that stuff seems to hold up forever, sandable, paintable, takes alot of heat, laughs at most everything and will flex abit without letting go.