Licence for Australia, USA, UK ETC - PLease Read

July 14, 2003, 07:41:54 PM

The Antibody · July 14, 2003, 07:51:48 PM

I think they're fabulous in the States. At least in Pennsylvania. There are two ways to earn a licence. One is through the DOT (Department of Transportation) You can go and apply for a learners permit. For a measily $7.00, you can get this and ride by yourself. Only two limitations; no night riding, and no passengers. From there, you take two tests; written and riding. Then you have your licence. There's no waiting time.

The other is get a permit at any notary for closer to $30.00 (give or take a few.) Go the the MSF course, ours in PA consists of two weekends; Friday and Saturday. There are other combos, (Fri./Sun.--Fri./Mon./Tues.) Ride around for a couple of weekends, on 250's, take the easiest written test of your life, and finally a no-challenge riding test, and whalla. License!

-Anti

KevinC · July 14, 2003, 07:53:12 PM

Canada has basically no requirements. If you are 16, you just go down, take a very basic motorcycle written, and wobble around some pylons, stop, and a couple other rudimentary maneuvers. You can do the test on a 125, and then take your shiny new license down to the bike store, and pick up your GSXR1000, Goldwing, new Harley thingie, or even an SV650 for those with self restraint.

I believe the US system is very similar.

When I talk to the guys at the local big box bike stores, they have lots of stories of newbies never making it home on their brand new crotch rocket. Maybe the Canadian system is designed to weed out the gene pool?

Laura · July 14, 2003, 08:02:00 PM

I took a MSF course, which consisted of about 6 hours in the classroom and 10 hours riding. Then I had to take a written test, and then I had a license. Right now I agree with my state's system, and am glad I didn't have to buy a 250cc bike. Even with the MSF course I practiced in a parking lot for a couple of weeks before I went on the roads. I am a conservative rider, so I don't really see myself getting into trouble with my GS500, or at least not any trouble I couldn't get into on a 250. Although I've only had my license for about 6 weeks, so maybe time will tell. Personally, I usually am of the opinion that the less government regulation the better. And it seems in general, (of course there are exceptions), a motorcyclist has less chance of hurting or killing other people than a car driver does. I might not be against requiring people under 18 to stick with a smaller bike for a year.

Laura

The Antibody · July 14, 2003, 08:09:42 PM

A good old conservative.

Laura, don't ever change.

-Anti :mrgreen:

Black Snowman · July 14, 2003, 08:15:11 PM

There is a lot to be said for weeding out the gene pool. The most common extremity injury on motorcycles is castration

It's not good when some moron hurts an innocent but I have no sympathy for the foolish getting themselves killed. There is something to be said for being TOO protective. If you let it go too far then you end up losing freedom and safety is nothing without freedom.

It's a balencing act that everyone and every nation has to perform. Some people are more willing to sacrifice freedom than others. Here in the USA we value individual freedom very highly. Unfortunately not as highly as we used to and worse yet we've begun to let accountability slip as well.

But this isn't entirely a political post and I don't want to start any flame wars so I'll shut up now

jake42 · July 14, 2003, 08:29:38 PM

I have to go with Keyzer on this one.

I'm actually quuite interested from an epidemiological standpoint in the differences in motorcycle accidents, severity of injuries, fatalities etc between countries like australia, the UK and here in the US. I am even considereing doing a research paper on the topic.

My first bike was a 180cc Yamaha that i still own and love to death. I learned to ride, repair, and maintain that bike. And i had tons of fun never going above 60.

jake

Crinum · July 14, 2003, 08:49:30 PM

In queensland, there are 2 ways that someone can get their licence.
There is the way which you described, where you have to putt around on a 250cc for a year.

And then there's the Q-Ride way which was introduced I think about a year ago. Anyone can get there open bike licence (no size restrictions) providing that they have held their open car licence for at least 3 years. This is how I got my licence.

The course goes for three days, and consists of theory and practical. There was one guy there that was riding a brand new R6 and he couldn't even do a U-turn.

I guess it's solely down to the rider to buy and ride a bike to their own ability.

glenn9171 · July 14, 2003, 09:41:11 PM

A question for all of the riders in places that limit the engine size/power of a new rider's motorcycle...

Do they restrict new automobile drivers to a sub-compact economy car and then make you buy a larger car a year later? If not, why? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, or so they say.

My first car was a '77 Ford Maverick when I was 16 years old. This was in 1988. 250c.i. straight-6 with a 3-speed on the column. Probably made about 80h.p. on a good day. At the same time, the rich kids in school drove Camaro's, Mustangs, and other sportscars. I assume this is the case in lots of places in the world. A lot of these kids got tons of tickets and caused more than their fair share of accidents. Does your government regulate the size of a new driver's car engine for their safety, or do they discriminate against bikers only?

pantablo · July 14, 2003, 11:13:16 PM

Quote from: KevinCCanada has basically no requirements. If you are 16, you just go down, take a very basic motorcycle written, and wobble around some pylons, stop, and a couple other rudimentary maneuvers. You can do the test on a 125, and then take your shiny new license down to the bike store, and pick up your GSXR1000, Goldwing, new Harley thingie, or even an SV650 for those with self restraint.

I believe the US system is very similar.

When I talk to the guys at the local big box bike stores, they have lots of stories of newbies never making it home on their brand new crotch rocket. Maybe the Canadian system is designed to weed out the gene pool?

California is very similar with one exception-if you're under 21 you MUST pass the MSF course, then take a written test at DMV to get full M endorsement. If over 21 you can take written test, then wobble around as Kevin says. Getting your M endorsement allows you to ride ANY size bike you want.

Also, you can go take the written test only which gives you a learners permit-only restriction is no night riding, no passengers, no freeways...but otherwise you can ride ANY bike-even go BUY a new gsxr1000 as Kevin says...I think its rediculous.

mrslush50 · July 14, 2003, 11:20:45 PM

as someone posted earlier, it really does come down to assesment of risk. with freedom comes risk. but with freedom also comes responsibility. if someone who has never riden before wants to go get their motorcycle license, then go buy a boss hog or a gixxer 1000, by all means go ahead. but that person had better be willing to take responsibilty for their actions on that bike.

the problem with the UK's system of limiting new riders to smaller bikes, is that it takes their freedom, and therefore their responsibility away. do we in the US put ourselves at risk by allowing inexperienced riders (by the way, yes this apllies to many, many other things in everyday life.) to choose when, where and what they ride? absolutly. but by giving people the freedom to make their own decisions, it also gives us, as a society, the right to hold them responsible for those actions.

Leveller · July 14, 2003, 11:55:53 PM

chimivee · July 15, 2003, 01:35:49 AM

I agree w/ all that weeding out the gene pool stuff... but unfortunately, giving them that right can have bad consequences for the rest of us. A collision w/ another bike could mess me up... even in a car. And even if I wasn't messed up physically, and I injured or killed a rider, even if it was his fault, I'd have some serious emotional trauma. Licensing, at least in CA, is too easy for motorcycles and a joke for autos. I don't think half the graduates in my MSF class were prepared to share the road. I'm not sure I was ready, and they scored me perfect (whah?!). I'm not saying I've got a better solution - I hate rules as much as the next guy, and I certainly don't want to have to go through more training... It's just scary.

Maybe we should have designated public irresponsible-ass-hole roads, where it would be legal to ride like a squid or drive drunk so they could all smash into each other and make the rest of the roads a better place for the good guys.

Wait... what was the question?

Wrencher · July 15, 2003, 03:38:12 AM

The local DMV changed their policy exactly one week before I went in to be "official" (rode far far too long with no M on the card). The long standing practice for issuing M endorsements was to take the written test, then show up for a "driving test". The driving test consisted of a person with a clip board saying "head down to that stop sign there, go up a couple blocks, circle around and come back and let me know when your done" and they walked back inside the building. Totally random course with ZERO supervision or grading of any sort. If you come back alive, you passed. The new test involved the usual cones in the parking lot arrangement. Suprising to me that the death rate on MC in the states isn't much higher with these licensing requirements.

I also despise the fact that they insist on taking your picture for the license RIGHT after you take off your helmet and the riding test. Full face helmets and beards don't mix well and its a truely horrifying pic!

July 15, 2003, 04:37:32 AM

Hey Jake42 I would love to read a paper done on motorcycle crashes and differences in countries, road conditions, speeds, bike type, age, years riding etc.

Thanks for your replies... you guys rock!

I will give you an idea of a statistic taken from a leading motorcycle magazine here in Australia:

"48% of motorcycling fatalities occur on bends - 9/10 of these deaths occur when the motorcycle crosses into the lane of the oncoming traffic"

Is that a crazy statistic? that means you can basically halve your chance of death on a motorcycle by not being a squid in the twisties - ride within your and your bikes limit!

Stay Safe

KevinC · July 15, 2003, 06:47:46 AM

I'd definitely take the German approach to "freedom" (as all the Yanks seem to like to call it) where the license requirements for cars and bikes are much more severe, but then you can have the freedom to drive at a speed you deem safe for the conditions. The drivers on the Autobahn were great to drive with - very disciplined.

The fatal accident rate on German Autobahns is much lower, at unlimited speeds, than in North America with all it's speed limits.

I hate beeing on the road with all these car drivers that get their licenses in a Cracker Jack box. But then I hate people having guns too.

JeffD · July 15, 2003, 07:43:00 AM

While I agree with the gene pool theory, there is a major downside to all the morons commiting legal suicide on crotch rockets. I would love to have a R6 or a ZX6R or something similar but I can't because insurance would be more than the bike. Because all the dumb asses whos parents think they are perfect, buy them a big car, motorcycle, whatever. Then they do stupid stuff and raise the statistics of people under 25 that are unsafe so Insurance companies raise the rates because we are "unsafe" but in reality its the morons. So now I have the option of buying a YZF6R with insurance running at $4,000yr so thats 350/mo + a 300 payment and gas so thats what $700+ a month just to ride a motorcycle I want to because everyone else is unsafe. no thanks.

I know I would absolutly hate having to ride a 250cc bike for a year because I am big (250lbs, 6'2") but if thats what it would have taken for me to ride, then damit I would have done it, then when I was ready to get a bigger bike I could actually afford it because insurance would be cheaper and the public opinion of MC's would be a better one because little Johnnys brother didnt T-bone a truck after riding a power wheelie down the main street.

[/rant]

Casimir · July 15, 2003, 08:12:03 AM

Texas is similar to the other states.

You have two choices for a full license (as an adult, don't know about the <18 crowd):
1. Take a written/computer test and a riding test. To do the riding test you must supply a chase car and the bike, which has to be ridden to the testing facility by a licensed rider, who gets his license, insurance, etc. checked. I'm told they make this as much of a hassle as possible so you'll take the MSF instead.

2. Take the MSF (2.5 Days) and the written test. They do test you during the MSF and passing is not certain. The written test mirrors the quizzes in the MSF.

If you want to ride without a helmet, you have to take the MSF, then when you get your license you are allowed to choose to have a helmet exemption. There were several people in my class taking the MSF to get their helmet exemption.

Once you have your license, you can go get yourself the biggest Hawg or Gixxer on the lot. Just show your proof of liability insurance.

Frankly, I'd like to see some restrictions on what you can drive at certain experience levels. I see kids driving huge SUVs that have no idea how to handle them. A couple years in a Dodge Neon won't kill them (or me).

I seriously doubt anything will ever be done in the US to curtail people going out and buying the biggest, fastest thing on the road. Let's face it, where motorcycles are concerned, many people buy one and that's it. It would be bad for business if it had to be a small one. And telling people they can't spend $40,000 on a Suburban, why that's un-American. Money talks in the US government(s), anything that restricts how much the consumer spends is quickly squelched as being bad for the economy.

Oops, didn't notice that soapbox there, I'll get off now.

Dave Fowler · July 15, 2003, 08:23:33 AM

Toenis · July 15, 2003, 08:34:23 AM

Holy MF how easy it is for all of you...

Here in Estonia you must be at least 21years old to ride a bike with more than 25Kw or have at least two or more years of bike riding experience.

To get you license at all you must ride for 20hours total (20x1h) + one month theoretical courses (about 60hours)... this takes about three months total to start riding at all. And you have to pass 2x2 riding tests and 2x2 theoretical tests including firstaid couses an stuff like that...

All that will cost you "only" 400$ but as our average income is below 500$ per month that is a lot of money, for me at least.

You are so lucky...

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Licence for Australia, USA, UK ETC - PLease Read