OK...I just felt like I needed some support, and this forum is a great place for that.  I took my bike in to the mechanic about 3 weeks ago and just heard back that I have no compression on the right side.  He tried adjusting the valves but turns out they were just too far gone.  He said the owner(s) before probably never had the valves adjusted.  I guess that now I need to have a valve job done, rings, pistons, etc, etc, $$$, etc, and many other pricey sounding words. 
However, he said he'd open it up and get me a parts list to see if I could find the parts cheaper somewhere else.  I think his high estimate was gonna be around $1000 to get it all done with his parts...so I'm going to try looking around for parts.  Do you all have any suggestions on where to look?  I'll have more specific info when he gets me a parts list...
Also, do you all feel it's worth the $1000?  I'm pretty much broke so I can't really get a new used bike or even finance for one....but in the long run, once this is done will it be worth it?  Or should I just sell a non running bike and start fresh, but in the hole$$$? 
Did I mention this is my first motorcycle and I haven't even really ridden it??   Sigh....time to go look for a third job...

Wait, he said no compression on the right side,
and he said he tried adjusting the valves.
Valves are very black and white on our bikes, either they're in spec, or not.

He states the valves are too far gone.  What does this mean?  He needs to be more specific here, I'm a former m/c mechanic, so I know this is too vague.

He states the P.O. probably never adj. the valves. <-- this has no bearing on your problem

Then you guess you need a valve job, rings and pistons?  No, I don't think so.  I think he may be taking advantage of you.

Do you have the Work Order in front of you?  Read to me what it states, please.  (I hope it's legible  )

Quote from: scratch on September 07, 2006, 04:08:12 PM
Wait, he said no compression on the right side,
and he said he tried adjusting the valves.
Valves are very black and white on our bikes, either they're in spec, or not.

Do you have the Work Order in front of you?  Read to me what it states, please.  (I hope it's legible  )

scratch...thanks for posting.  When I talked to him, he said that (if I understood correctly) he couldn't get any clearance when adjusting the valves, and saying that the face of the falce was burned off so it would need a valve job.  I guess this means the valves are too worn to even adjust.  He/we then went to worst case scenario mode saying that since he would have to take the head off that work he might as well do pistons, rings, etc.  I was like woah woah woah...I'm only looking to get a running bike for now and polish her up later.  So now we're only looking at replacing valves...

That's what was said.  Can valves do that?  Just wear out like that?  I'm sticking to fixing as little as possible for as little as possible.  No work order because he's a friend of a friend who wrenches in his garage (but works for the local shop).  Right now he's gonna open it up and see what else could be wrong, so I'll be paying the labor for taking it apart (but he won't get to it until next week).

I've never met the dude, but my friend uses him to fix up his dirt ride and I guess he's cool.  From talking to him he sounds cool and only wants to fix it as best he can (but i guess all m/c mechanics are good con artists...just kidding scratch!). 

Anyway, with just doing the valve job it's like $300 (parts and labor) unless I can find cheaper parts, and with all that other jazz that I hope I don't need it tops out at $1000. 

Did I even answer your question? 

***also, it was pretty cool talking to him because I actually knew a little about what he was talking about because of all the posts I've read when I was trying to cure my bike.  I thought I was over learning stuff...



 

If I were you (and I was, 4 months ago) I would buy a Haynes manual and do the work myself.  Motor vehicles really don't get much simpler than the GS and a basic set of hand tools and a jack is all you need to find the problem yourself. 

Keep in mind that a good, used engine can be had for as little as $300 so keep an eye out for one before paying this guy big bucks to tear it down.

-M

sounds more like burnt valves to me.

The only thing I can think of is that the exhaust valve isn't sealing due to warpage.  This could happen if the valves were severly out of spec for some time.

No, valves don't become unadjustable due to going "bad".  Maybe you misunderstood him...hopefully.

Give him a call back and ask him to restate what is wrong with the engine.  Take GOOD notes and bring them back here.  We'll help.  The more information you can get us from the mechanic, the more we'll be able to help you.

-Turd.

When I bought my GS, it had two burnt valves...  It wasn't anywhere near $1000 for the shop to fix it.

Wait a sec ... burnt valves ... nope. I also dont see how they can warp by being out of spec ... they can of course warp being out of timing ... and got hit by the piston.

The valve will not burn because long before it burns by being too tight, it will lose so much mixture through the valve, it will never run. If you dont believe me, drop in a shim that is 2 sizes too tight and see how well it runs on that cyl.

You cant warp it that way either, since it will not run well enough to get any heat there. You could warp a perfectly set valve but running a super super short exhaust ... like 2 inches off the head type exhaust.

Here is my suggestion - find a new mechanic, or find a new bike - one that runs and one that has been maintained by someone who knows and cares what they are doing. I suggest Scratch - yea ride by his house and swipe it  ... I have his address from when I shipped him stuff, so PM me ...  .
Something is wrong - your carbs most likely are sticking - like slides or something is not letting in air. Bad valves will still give you ~50-80psi.
BTW you want to get the bike away from the mechanic before he starts to split the motor. Cos once you open it, you'll have to rebuild it mostly.
Cool.
Srinath.

Yeah, these bikes are really simple and with a manual and using this board for help, almost anyone should be able to do the work themselves. Even if you do do the work yourself, new piston rings (you should be able to re use the pistons) and a hone job would be worth doing once you have the head off. The mechanic wasn't so far off when he sugested this. Once the head is off, the cylinders just lift right off, so you may as well hone the cylinders and replace the rings. Honing really isn't hard but if you aren't comfortable doing it yourself, you could take just the cylinders into any shop (auto, motorcycle, or lawn mower) and they would probally hone it for you for $20 and have it done in 5 minutes. And rings shouldn't be too expensive.

As far as the valves, everyone seems to think something different, but my $.02 is that it may be just carbon buildup. If you pull the head, you could try lapping the valves yourself if you're trying to save every last penny, and then see if the head will leak alcoholl when you hold it upside down. But It wouldn't cost too much to have a machine shop do a valve job, just grind the valves and the seat, till they seat well.

After the valve job and rings, you'd have a whole new top end, and should make almost new bike power. 

If you don't think you can do this yourself though, just buy a ne motor for $300 or so, much less headache
good luck 

Quote from: grasshopper4040 on September 07, 2006, 04:32:22 PM
...............he said that (if I understood correctly) he couldn't get any clearance when adjusting the valves, and saying that the face of the valve was burned off so it would need a valve job.  I guess this means the valves are too worn to even adjust............I'm only looking to get a running bike for now That's what was said.  Can valves do that?  Just wear out like that? 

How many miles on that 97 of yours?  I've got a 97 GS that's parked and out of service right now that has 80k miles on it.  

The intake valves have the original shims and are still to spec.  Both of the exhaust valves have been tight and shims changed a number of times to get clearance and one is now down to the minimum shim size made by Suzuki.  It had adequate clearance when I checked it at about 76k miles and put in the smallest shim.  It was still running as good as ever, but further use would require something be done with the valves.  

The GS's of that vintage had exhaust valve seats that weren't hard enough and the valves receded slowly into them with many miles use.  Think it was mostly valve seat wear rather than valve wear.  Nothing really burnt as such, just worn too far for further shim adjustment with standard shims.  Bike still had good compression and really didn't need further engine work, did burn a little oil maybe a couple pints between changes.

When the bike was totalled in July 03, I bought a 02 low milage GS and didn't do much further with the old recked/repaired 97.  I had intended to get some shims ground a little thinner than the standard minimum for the next adjustment.  Really think you should look into this a little further if you want to get it running for minimum cost to use as is for a while.

Have you had it running? If not could be other problems besides the tight valve, I assume it's an exhaust valve?  When I had a tight valve it would be a little hard starting and then run much rougher than normal at idle till warmed up.  Valve clearances increase greatly on a hot engine and it ran ok after warmed up.

Quote from: Turd Ferguson on September 07, 2006, 05:26:35 PM
The only thing I can think of is that the exhaust valve isn't sealing due to warpage.  This could happen if the valves were severly out of spec for some time.

No, valves don't become unadjustable due to going "bad".  Maybe you misunderstood him...hopefully.

Give him a call back and ask him to restate what is wrong with the engine.  Take GOOD notes and bring them back here.  We'll help.  The more information you can get us from the mechanic, the more we'll be able to help you.

-Turd.

you all ROCK.  I knew I came to the right spot.  I'm gonna try and call him tomorrow and take 'good' notes and post again.  As far as getting another bike, pretty much not an option (unless someone wants to sell me theirs for about $500 and an almost running gs500  ).  I think maybe just getting a new motor might be the way to go? 

As far as having it running, it would start up but chug and cough and die when I tried to ride her around.  So it 'runs', but doesn't 'go'.  Also, if you all believe it can be done at home, then I'm all for it!  I'll still call him back and find out exactly what the problem is.  Stay tuned.......

oh yeah, about 36,000 miles I believe.  It's been so long since I've seen her.

OK...just got off a quick phone call with the mechanic.  No compression on RT cylinder and burned valves was the diagnosis.  He told me he has attempted adjusting both the intake and exhaust valves, but it doesn't seem to help.  I asked him what parts I should start looking for, and his reply was:
Top end gasket kit
piston rings
valve seals
2 intake valves
2 exhaust valves
Now...he and I talked about doing the bare minimum to get her running, and this is it.  Since I'm no mechanic and only have my apartment complex garage to work on my bike, I figure this is my latest plan.  While the 'concept' of the job seems simple enough, the logistics are what I can't really manage. 

So what does everyone think?  Anybody selling any cheap engine parts?  Any ideas where to get these things?  I'll search around...

+1 to rangerbrown  i am so good

also, what is the compatability like for engines?  What year engines can I search through to find these parts (mainly the more expensive ones)? 

Any.

87-2006 are all about the same,

just swap the engines, there are some little things like the carbs but use your old ones,

2004 up have oil coolers so if you can find one like that i would,

other details i am vage on

So buying a new (probably used) engine would make more sense (and save more $$$) than replacing all of that crap?  Or would it be 'easier' to get the parts and fix the problem?

what do you think of this thing?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-GS500-E-ENGINE-MOTOR-Complete_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35595QQihZ017QQitemZ270012862472

pull the head and swap them, and you should be on the road

Quote from: grasshopper4040 on September 08, 2006, 04:25:56 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-GS500-E-ENGINE-MOTOR-Complete_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35595QQihZ017QQitemZ270012862472

Should I worry about mileage or even ask them about the condition of certain parts, or does 'complete' mean it's all good?