QuoteYes, but at the moment I am looking at new cars at the moment, because I do plan to buy used in a few years.

oh, i misinterpreted that to mean, you'd be buying new now and would only look to buy used later on.  not that you are looking at cars available today so you can buy them when they hit the used market. 

i get it now!

We need a translator even though we speak the same language. 

Went out this afternoon and got some subjective data on the quality of a few of the vehicles. I didn't bring auto insurance so I didn't get to test ride them, but I sat in them and climbed in and out and went over them fairly meticulously. Unfortunately it took me a while to print off my data sheets (I made data sheets of each car so I could make easier comparisons).

Of the three dealers I went to, BMW, Lexus, and Audi, only the Audi dealer said that AWD was worth it. Both the Bimmer and Lexus salesman said that AWD simply wasn't worth it in Texas, as we don't exactly get bad weather here very often.

Lexus IS250

• Interior quality is fantastic. High quality plastics and panels fit together very tightly.
• Front seat is very driver focused; only as roomy as it needs to be.
• Rear seat room is snug, but manageable.
• No towing capacity. Period.
• Manual transmission is difficult to find.
• No telescoping steering wheel.
• Dual climate control.
• Heated and vented front leather seats.
• Standard features: Traction and stability control, tire pressure monitoring system, power front seats, moonroof
• Down on power compared to competition (smaller engine though)

BMW 328i

• Roomy front seats, but maintains a good driving position.
• Good seat bolstering, but not too agressive
• Good visibility out the front, slightly obscured to the sides.
• Interior fit and finish is fantastic.
• 50/50 weight balance
• Standard features: stability control, tire pressure monitoring system, moon roof, heated and power mirrors
• Trunk button difficult to reach with door closed.
• Manual transmission hard to find
• Front cup holders look like they will bust easily (due to the way they operate)
• Rear seat is slightly tight, access slightly difficult.
• Felt around the door seals will undoubtedly get dirty easily, and wear out fairly quickly
• 3340 dry weight and 230HP (100 lbs lighter than the IS250, 200 lbs lighter than the G35)
• No towing recommended by BMW

Audi A4 2.0T quattro

• AWD split of 40F/60R
• Max AWD split of 33F/67R to 67F/33R.
• Good visibility and driving position.
• Interior panels fit together nicely, but there are cheap plastics in a few places.
• Good front access.
• Glove box seems flimsy, easily breakable.
• Doors have very distinct open positions. Notchy.
• Rear seat room is VERY tight, and access is very difficult.
• 2200 lbs of towing capacity.

While BMW doesn't recommend towing anything with its 3-series, I was told that it shouldn't be a big deal and it shouldn't void the warranty of a used vehicle either. I REALLY like the BMW too. My only real concern about it is its reliability, and if it proves to be a fairly reliable car, I am definitely going to consider it. It was such a wonderful car to be in and everything was layed out so nicely. However, the Lexus was equally luxurious and well put together, perhaps even more so. The Lexus is just a bit smaller than the Bimmer (9 inches narrower, and inch shorter on the wheelbase), but has a turning circle that is 5 feet smaller.

The Audi doesn't really impress me yet; it doesn't stand out as very luxurious, despite the interior being (for the most part) well put together. We'll see how it stands out in handling.

I took the Mazda Mazdaspeed6 off the list as well. I'm not interested in a FWD car (or a FWD based AWD one for that matter).

Quote#
# Trunk button difficult to reach with door closed.
# Manual transmission hard to find
# Front cup holders look like they will bust easily (due to the way they operate)

#1 use the key. theres a lock, unlock and trunk button on every current BMW key. the other nice thing about the key is that if you're valeting the car, you can remove the actual key, lock the glove box and trunk, then leave the valets the remote only and they won't be able to open anything but the drivers door and start the car.
#2 no harder than any other car. most people are lazy these days, and most "enthusiasts" are willing to settle for an auto with "manual mode" (it shifts just beyond redline on it's own.) or for an SMG (sequential manual gear box. fully electric sequential  shifter, no clutch, has an auto mode). you can't really find any cars with manuals. personally i think you should have to have a car with a manual trans for your first year of having a driver's license. It makes you a more conscious driver.
#3 yes, there are a few problems with those. as long as you're not aggressive with them, they'll be fine, but if your yanking them out, slamming them in, putting heavy stuff on them, they'll end up breaking. treat them well and they'll last, but they aren't bulletproof.

Quote from: ledfingers on March 17, 2007, 01:07:11 AM
#1 use the key. theres a lock, unlock and trunk button on every current BMW key. the other nice thing about the key is that if you're valeting the car, you can remove the actual key, lock the glove box and trunk, then leave the valets the remote only and they won't be able to open anything but the drivers door and start the car.

Yeah, I didn't get a chance to inspect the key as I was just looking at the floor model, but still, it'd be nice to be able to unlock the truck without having to find the little button on the key. I realize it's a minor thing, but it is the little things that make a car stand out. The Japanese cars I have had experience with all have pretty convenient levers, and the IS250 had a push button like the BMW, just in a more accessible place. Like I said, minor issue. I'm sure I'd get used to it after a while though.

Quote from: ledfingers on March 17, 2007, 01:07:11 AM
#2 no harder than any other car. most people are lazy these days, and most "enthusiasts" are willing to settle for an auto with "manual mode" (it shifts just beyond redline on it's own.) or for an SMG (sequential manual gear box. fully electric sequential  shifter, no clutch, has an auto mode). you can't really find any cars with manuals. personally i think you should have to have a car with a manual trans for your first year of having a driver's license. It makes you a more conscious driver.

I dunno, I was told that it wouldn't be difficult at all to find an Audi with a manual. We'll see how it plays out with the Subaru and Infiniti. I really don't want an automatic, though when it comes down to it and I can't find a manual and I'm too impatient to wait an indefinite amount of time, I might settle for the sequential manual (paddle shifters), but I'd still prefer the full manual.

Quote from: ledfingers on March 17, 2007, 01:07:11 AM
#3 yes, there are a few problems with those. as long as you're not aggressive with them, they'll be fine, but if your yanking them out, slamming them in, putting heavy stuff on them, they'll end up breaking. treat them well and they'll last, but they aren't bulletproof.

Yeah, that's what I figured. It just looks that by their design they will wear out quickly even from just opening and closing them. While it is a pretty slick feature and streamlines the interior, it also looks like it would be a pain in the ass to try and fix them. We'll see how reliability holds up over the next few years on them, because that is pretty much the only thing holding me back. We'll see how it drives in a week or so.

I'm going to consolidate my list, and am going to remove the BMW 328xi as well, simply because it is going to be practically impossible to find down here. For the entire southern region, Lexus only produced 4 AWD IS250s. I don't think BMW was much better.

With stability and traction control, a RWD vehicle should be fine for what I need. The 328xi probably isn't going to provide much advantage in traction, but rather will just weigh more (200 lbs more) and get worse gas mileage. The Subaru is staying on the list because it weighs in 25lbs more than the rear wheel drive BMW; the Audi is staying on because the A4 without quattro is a FWD vehicle, and, well, f%$k that.

Combined list:
Subaru Legacy GT
Audi A4 2.0T quattro
BMW 328i
Infiniti G35 Sport
Lexus IS250

from a former valet, the Infinity g35 is badass, a real surprise to drive and would definitely be my pick of all the ones you have so far. Subaru a second, because subaru is quality and also unique as a performance brand. I like that these two are unexpected top performers and not the kind of car that every @$$hole making $50k/yr has (like a bmw for instance). But then again, I like to be a little different.

Just my 2c.

You do know that all Subarus are front wheel drive biased, right?

And I can't believe you can't open the trunk from outside the car...my bimmer has a button on the deck lid.  Unlock car, press button, load groceries.

I do know that towing with the bimmer won't be an issue as long as you keep it under 1500lbs (perfectly ballanced on the trailer's axle, of course).  I pull my TL all the time on my drag-hitch so 250lbs of tongue weight should be no problem.

Quote from: makenzie71 on March 18, 2007, 04:29:31 PM
You do know that all Subarus are front wheel drive biased, right?

The new Legacy GT switched over to a RWD platform (for the most part). It's designed around the AWD system, and default is 40F/60R.

dunno guy...I can't find any clear pics but the ones I'm seeing point toward a tranverse mounted boxer...no way they would mount a transverse engine in a rwd car.

I've got a friend with one  of the 6-speed AWD BMW 318s and that little car is almost as much fun as riding.  It is also impossible to get the wheels of the ground I've 90 degree turned at over 100 mph and all 4 wheels held contact.  Just my humble opinion but those things are just awesome!!! But, its still not as much fun as poppin your front wheel up through a stoplight.

Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on March 17, 2007, 01:39:47 AM

With stability and traction control, a RWD vehicle should be fine for what I need. The 328xi probably isn't going to provide much advantage in traction, but rather will just weigh more (200 lbs more) and get worse gas mileage. The Subaru is staying on the list because it weighs in 25lbs more than the rear wheel drive BMW; the Audi is staying on because the A4 without quattro is a FWD vehicle, and, well, f%$k that.

Absolutely right about the AWD issue.  The only reason I even considered it was for ski-season use, but my 10 days a year of driving in Lake Tahoe were not worth the 355 days of mileage/weight/fun/cost.  In Dallas, my dad has no trouble with his RWD 3-series, even though it's an old '90 model without traction control.

Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on March 17, 2007, 01:39:47 AM

Combined list:
Subaru Legacy GT
Audi A4 2.0T quattro
BMW 328i
Infiniti G35 Sport
Lexus IS250

I had the same list you do, along with the Audi A3.  The Legacy GT had terrible gas mileage, Lexus felt too plush and not sporty enough, and the Infiniti I just didn't like, for some reason.  And while I have strong loyalty to Audi, I ended up going with the 328i with sport package.  It beat the other cars (to me at least) by a long-shot in terms of fun-to-drive-ness. 

You know what I need?

I need a DeLorean.

Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on March 19, 2007, 12:06:30 PM
You know what I need?

I need a DeLorean.

Be sure to get the one with Mr. Fusion- really prevents a lot of headaches.
Also, I know they have a lot of Flux Capacitor issues

</nerdiness>

Yeah, those are only like 10-15 grand, and nothing says class like a stainless steel car

Quote6-speed AWD BMW 318s

#1 BMW never put AWD and a 1.8L motor together. Ever.
#2 BMW never put a 6spd in a 318.

either your friend has wasted a lot of time and money on putting a 6spd and AWD in a 318, which isn't worth much at all, or you just don't pay much attention.



and to alpha, you don't even need to be looking at the key to find the button. BMW does the unlock button on the bottom, lock in the middle, trunk by the key ring. the roundel in the middle is the lock button, so you can feel the roundel and go from there while it's still in your pocket.

I worked at a BMW dealership too long, i need to stop trying to sell these freaking things to people when i'm not making any money from it.

Quote from: ledfingers on March 20, 2007, 09:08:13 AM

Quote6-speed AWD BMW 318s

I worked at a BMW dealership too long, i need to stop trying to sell these freaking things to people when i'm not making any money from it.

I'll take it... where do I sign

bmw 4 bangers went straight downhill when they went to the 1.8L. they're still bulletproof, but they were never impressive in a performance standpoint. not unless you do major mods, ie turbo. But now an awd turboed 2002 (pre-74) with a close ratio 6spd i would cream my pants for. 318? naaah... 320? with some performance enhancements, yeah. (ie injection updated) But the 2002's are the freaking sh.

I'm going to try and test drive these vehicles this weekend, or at least the Subaru and the Infiniti since they are the same dealer.

I've heard some pretty good things about the Legacy GT, so I'm hoping it is as good as it is made out to be. This new model ('05+) is a dramatic leap forward for Subaru in terms of luxury and quality. Every review I've read has mentioned this and has mentioned how surprised they were at how well Subaru pulled it off.

We'll see how things go.

soo alpha is gonna be a bus driver? ( subaru spelled backwards)  ( U r a bus)

i have driven a supercharged 318ti and it was very quick.  could definitely stay with a 330 and an E30 M3 off the line.  the M3 woudl take it atthe top end.

These "help me pick a car" posts crack me up.  First of all, the original poster always already knows what they want.  They never ever listen to any of the advice given because they set the paramiters of the car search so narrow that it could only include two or three models of cars anyway.  I think the real purpose behind the posts like this is to try to let everyone know how much car you can afford, or think you can afford, and then act like a snarky know it all about the suggestions offered.

I'm obviously prepared to flamed for this, so flame on if you must, but I don't think you can deny any of this with a straight face. 

Edit: and in defense of this post, which may seem like an attack, I submit that the list you've compiled after 8 pages of posts has to be identical to the list you had in mind when you posted the original post, so it is really just wanking off about buying a car when you graduate.