So I was on this long tour or Arizona with my friend. It was supposed to be a 1200 miles trip (4 days). The first 1000 miles were great. There were times when the bike was running at constant 85-90 mph  for a long time (an hour). Once I even pushed it to a speed of 113 mph on a downslope. Yeah I now feel that I was a bit ruthless , but hey its GS500, its supposed to be rugged.

BUT - on the last day when I was 200 miles away from home, after about 10 mins of ride on the free way I start to hear some rattling noise from the right side of the engine. It was a non periodic sound. I was near a small town of Blythe (4 miles away) so reluctantly I ride my bike at slow speeds to the town. Sometime it felt like someone threw in a stone in my engine.

Finally I reach Blythe, I checked and it was low on oil. I did make sure that the oil was in spec before starting the journey, so where did the oil go is still a mystery to me. I saw some smoke when I opened the oil dip. By this time the rattling was also louder, and was periodic. I'd say something like a shim was missing so I opened the valve cover to see the shims, but all the shims were fine. I could move the rear tire in the top gear. Also the bike was still able to idle with the rattling noise. Anyhow, the day being sunday all the bike shops were closed so were all the rental company. The towing company quoted a rate of $700 (are they nuts?). One of my adventurous friend graciously offered to hire a truck from san diego, rode all the way to blythe and rode back. So now i am home. And my bike is home too.

Now I have a new job for my bike - yippie! Initially I thought it is an engine seizure, as I _was_ low on oil and the previous night we had rode the bike continuously for over 3 hours. But after reading some posts about engine seizure, it looks like I might be still safe.  Any ideas on what it might be? What should be my plan of action to diagnose the problem? I have never opened an engine. My mechanical experience ends at valve adjustment but I am motived to bring it back to life myself. I also dont have any specialty tools either. Help solicited.

Dang! All I can offer is my sympathy, and I'm glad you and the bike are home safe and that it didn't happen farther away, Blythe is sucky enough. I would say once you have it fixed, do what I do and check the oil at least every fill up, I usually check every other time I ride. Mine seemed to be burning a lot of oil, then I switched to Motul synthetic and the consumption seems to be less. But these beasts do burn oil, so checking often is super important.

It was running so much better after you did the valves, too. 

I know from personal experience that cam chains and timing chains rattle, but 

Quote from: nikux on March 31, 2008, 10:04:42 PM
So I was on this long tour or Arizona with my friend. It was supposed to be a 1200 miles trip (4 days). The first 1000 miles were great. There were times when the bike was running at constant 85-90 mph  for a long time (an hour). Once I even pushed it to a speed of 113 mph on a downslope. Yeah I now feel that I was a bit ruthless , but hey its GS500, its supposed to be rugged.

BUT - on the last day when I was 200 miles away from home, after about 10 mins of ride on the free way I start to hear some rattling noise from the right side of the engine. It was a non periodic sound. I was near a small town of Blythe (4 miles away) so reluctantly I ride my bike at slow speeds to the town. Sometime it felt like someone threw in a stone in my engine.

Finally I reach Blythe, I checked and it was low on oil. I did make sure that the oil was in spec before starting the journey, so where did the oil go is still a mystery to me. I saw some smoke when I opened the oil dip. By this time the rattling was also louder, and was periodic. I'd say something like a shim was missing so I opened the valve cover to see the shims, but all the shims were fine. I could move the rear tire in the top gear. Also the bike was still able to idle with the rattling noise. Anyhow, the day being sunday all the bike shops were closed so were all the rental company. The towing company quoted a rate of $700 (are they nuts?). One of my adventurous friend graciously offered to hire a truck from san diego, rode all the way to blythe and rode back. So now i am home. And my bike is home too.

Now I have a new job for my bike - yippie! Initially I thought it is an engine seizure, as I _was_ low on oil and the previous night we had rode the bike continuously for over 3 hours. But after reading some posts about engine seizure, it looks like I might be still safe.  Any ideas on what it might be? What should be my plan of action to diagnose the problem? I have never opened an engine. My mechanical experience ends at valve adjustment but I am motived to bring it back to life myself. I also dont have any specialty tools either. Help solicited.

Make sure the dip stick is in correctly and not bent.The small round cover on the right side of the engine,it has SUZUKI on it,3 bolts,remove it,There 7mm bolts.Inside is the ignition pick ups and the rotor.Make sure the pickups are solid and can't move.Next the rotor should have a slight bit of fore and aft movement,not much.Make sure the bolt in the center is secure.It's 10mm, it should be tight but not muscled on.It's good to pull the bolt and add some blue loctite.These bolts are known for backing out also.The other thing I would do is pull both case covers,starting with the side you here the noise from.Clutch basket or discs could have broken and the pieces are banging around in there.The cam chain tensioner could have broken.The worst thing would be a broken piston skirt.Also check for goat's disease AKA Starwalt's disease. http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=13774.0


EDITED
Also check the rotor and stator for missing magnets,cracked epoxy and loose parts.

i was  thinkin perhaps goats

I'm betting on goats/starwalts/whichever also, but iirc that usually causes the engine to stop completely.

you're checking your oil with the dipstick unscrewed, and then lowered back into the case, right ? screwing it down and checking isn't the proper method.

where did you oil go - it went out the tail pipe. you're on an air cooled bike, in the dessert, and running at high speeds. it burned it. it's normal. if it's smoking at idle, that's NOT normal, but blah blah blah can be fixed.

you did check your engine mounting bolts, right ? did the ridability suffer during this noise ? was it low on power ? or was it just noise ? <--- very telling things.

How much oil did you have to add to bring it back to the full mark? 

A GS will normally use about 1 quart per 1,000 miles as a good estimate.  Some more, some less.  It is best to check it at least every other gas stop.

woops... i always screwed in the dip stick to check for level, so thats my mistake 1. That means I was low on oil to start the journey with.  At the time of rattling, with the sip screwed in the oil was barely able to touch the bottom of the stick. So I put just put in 1 liter of oil. Did not check for level again after that.

I did check my engine bolts. The bike was low on power. When I rode those 4 miles, I could not go over 40mph. One was the power, second was it became too noisy on higher speeds. It was a loud knocking/clanking/rattling noise.

whats iirc? Goats, hmmm... sounds like a task.  Anyways, thanks for the suggestions, looking forward for a weekend to work on the bike.

I'm starting to think it maybe a spun rod bearing.

Sounds plausible, much more so than Goat's at this point.

damn man, that sucks. whatever it is, its time to buy a spare motor and bolt it in, and sell that one or break it down....

Quote from: nikux on April 01, 2008, 09:43:17 AM
woops... i always screwed in the dip stick to check for level, so thats my mistake 1. That means I was low on oil to start the journey with.  At the time of rattling, with the sip screwed in the oil was barely able to touch the bottom of the stick. So I put just put in 1 liter of oil. Did not check for level again after that.

Yeow!  That means you were likely about 2! quarts low.  Bottom of the stick to Full is about 1 quart, the threads are worth at least 1 more quart.

The oil sump isn't deep.

Not from experience, but from what I have read and taken in from this site over the years its the RH side counter balance shaft bearing that tends to crap out first when the oil level drops.........and from the description of the symptoms it sounds like this is another classic case.

Quote from: sledge on April 01, 2008, 04:46:22 PM
Not from experience, but from what I have read and taken in from this site over the years its the RH side counter balance shaft bearing that tends to crap out first when the oil level drops.........and from the description of the symptoms it sounds like this is another classic case.

You know.I didn't even think about that and I worry about it every time I have to add oil.You can always have the engine rebalanced and eliminate the counter balance shaft.Just make sure that the counter shaft oil holes get plugged.

So finally with all your help this is what I am down to

• Tearing down the engine by a mechanic is way too expensive
  
• Tearing down an engine myself, is an option, but I dont have the expertize, or the special tools.
  Anyone wanting to have a good weekend spent - by giving me a helping hand on the engine job? I live in La Jolla/San Diego (92037). Topless Pizza/Bottomless Beer/Some extra cash no problem.
  
  
• What I am planning for this weekend is to look for signs on the left and right side of the engine without opening it (I have both clymers and hynes manual). This is what I plan to check, any suggestions welcome.
  
  1. Compression check.
  
  Middle
  1. Cam chain tensioner
  
  Right Side
  1. Ignition Pickups
  2. Rotor
  3. Clutch
  
  Left Side
  1. Generator rotor
  2. Magnets
  
  
• If nothing else works, buy a new used engine.
  

Sounds like a good plan to start diagnosing your problem.Pop the valve cover off and check the cam chain tension.That will help rule out a bad tensioner.It should be very tight with very little slack.Look for missing shims under the cams.Also pull the oil pan and look for metal shavings.This is a sure sign of  bad internal damage.




This will help with the tensioner and shims.  http://gstwin.com/adjust_valves.htm

i have similar issues with the engine i recently fitted to my bike after the old one seized (it exhibited the noies described also before it died).
ive started pulling the old engine apart in order to see whats involved in getting at the balance shaft and its looking like quite a major job.

has anyone done balance shaft work on the GS before?

So I opened up the left, right and top engine covers and everything looks fine.

1. The cam-chain is taught
2. The shims are in place
3. The generator rotor and magnets are fine.
4. The pickups, rotor and clutch plates looks good.

So everything now points to some spun bearing inside the engine. Some more observations.

1. I have been able to record the engine sound. As I wrote before, it is able to idle but with a loud noise.
http://www.confusionart.com/share/motor.wav (the sound starts at about 5 secs)
2. The bike was *really* low on oil. I had put about a liter of oil after the screwup, and what came out in drain was about 1.3 liters.
3. The oil is blacker than black.

Any other suggestions under the new evidence (sound, oil info)? I have a feeling that changing the engine is my best bet now.

Did yo find any metal particles in the oil you drained, or did the oil look like it had very tiny bits of suspended glitter like metallic paint?

Quote from: GeeP on April 12, 2008, 05:12:12 PM
Did yo find any metal particles in the oil you drained, or did the oil look like it had very tiny bits of suspended glitter like metallic paint?

No there were no metal particles in the oil. Not very sure of the suspended glitter - it looks like there is some metallic paint, but its very faint. Definitely not discernable particles.