Quote from: bettingpython on October 03, 2008, 10:49:28 AM
Speaking of voting for the first time in a very long time though I am voting for McCain for president our district 1 congressman John Sullivan will not be getting my vote. I will vote for the democrat who is opposing him since chose to ignore repeated e-mails from a large portion of his constituency and voted for the 700 billion dollar bail out.

It's amazing how some congressmen listen a month before the election. Frank Lucas (R-OK), my congressman, voted against the bailout because of all the email and phone calls from constituents.  When the emails and phone calls opposed continued involvement Iraq a year before election day, he couldn't hear a thing...

Obama is a rube, Palin is an Alaskan trailer ... lets be nice and say ... "resident" ...

Waaaaaaay more lies in her points then Biden's ... and darn tootin ... the facts dont count ...

Lets see, we're replacing a texan cowboy simpleton with an alaskan country bumpkin ... lets just face it, McCain is gonna croak by April ...

The right person for the top job is not your beer drinking buddy ... definetly not your local my mama inspite of what 'Joe six-pack" thinks ... WTF is Joe Six-pack anyway ... isn't that just calling us simple drunks ...

There is a fine line between being one of us because you're as stupid as the stupidest of us ... and being one of us because you can empathise and know what we are going through.

McCain of 2000 with leiberman or Giuliani or Ridge may have made a decent pair ... heck they would have made a decent pair in 2000 ...

There are a lot of shades of grey, not anything in black or white ... and I dont think McCain or Palin understand any of those ... no one is your friend or your enemy, they are all inbetween ...  Maybe Obama doesn't know that distinction either that well, but I will count Biden as having that sensitivity McCain as not caring and Palin as horrendously unaware.

Bush thinks in terms of yes and no ... the next president needs to think in terms of everything inbetween.

I think McCain is racing the other way ... he's too senile to care, palin is too full of herself and her self righteousness to even think in that line.
Obama may be a newb but with his Biden choice he has shown the need to know, understand, learn and improve and more than anything else, he has chosen to work closely with a former rival for the betterment of all of the country.

Just that one item I will count as a huge point for Obama - BTW remember they are all politicians ... and they all are dirty and not worth holding in any esteem ... like used car salesman ... no offence to used car salesman ... So dont even point out this one's or that one's flaws and mis-steps ...

Cool.
Buddha.

BTW, I am fiscally conservative, anti abortion and sorta split on most other long running issues.
Pro ghey rights, pro gun, anti illegal immigration what not ...
I dont agree with either of the candidates on everything ... but Obama is slightly ... very very slightly better than McCain of 08 in some issues ...
Thrown in Palin on McCain's side and he sinks ... not even close. Obama can pick Mr Potatohead and walk away as the winner. Now Obama had to make the choice first, and he had to pick better than any of the options before McCain - Jindal, Ridge, Leibermann many more ... and he just nailed it. Now with the mood the way it is in the country amongst his base, he could ahve picked Hillary, but back then he would have looked like a door mat if he had. Omaba nailed it, McCain blew it and they were equal before ... the fact that Obama even picked Biden was possibly what in my mind put him over McCain ... but top it off with the fact that McCain picked Palin, and its lights out McCain.
From where they are equal Obama gets a +1, McCain gets a -10, and then biden comes with a +1000, Palin with a -200. Its now a 1211 point lead for Obama.
The only worse choice McCain could have made would ahve been Cheney.
Cool.
Buddha.

I didn't catch the VP debate last night.  My wife's show on HGTV trumped the recording of it, so it didn't even record.  I heard that both did pretty good.  There were a few inaccuracies in facts on the side of Palin, but nothing too bad.

I would have voted for Ron Paul in a heartbeat ...

And good to know your priorities are in the right place - HGTV episodes will soon be collectible ... right after they go out of business ... or merge with telemundo ... Housing porn is about to be the next casualty of the housing bubble. Oh, they may get bailed out too, which is very good for them, that bail out will be in mexican dollars, not in american pesos ... and after that they will solely be building houses with a lot of hidden rooms, sub basements, mirrors in the right places to reflect the sun so Immigration agents cannot see the trap doors etc etc etc ... so that americans who will do the jobs in the burning sun in mexico that the locals cannot or will not do can effectively hide when the authorities come to deport them ...

quiktaco - There were 1/2 truths and comparing apples to oranges on the side of Biden ... a lot of watch the exact word he was saying etc etc ... but the big lies and seriously bad implications were all Palin. She was talking about some crap that literally implied that "alaska has a lot of oil and natural gas and natural gas is 100% clean and if she were VP she'd give us all that oil") ... Nice ... This is the truth however - You are irrelevant, the oil and natural gas are owned by all 50 states, the clean natural gas still contributes to global warming unless that whole concept is BS - not saying it is or it isn't, and there is barely enough to cover 10% of our needs on an ongoing basis, and pumping any faster will only cause the fields to die before full extraction occours - Same thing that is affecting Iraq now. Time to retire the ones that ahve been pumped faster than the design rate ...
Cool.
Buddha.

Can't really comment on it since I have no idea what was said.

Quote from: The Buddha on October 03, 2008, 12:07:54 PM
BTW, I am fiscally conservative, anti abortion and sorta split on most other long running issues.
Pro ghey rights, pro gun, anti illegal immigration what not ...

According to these, wouldn't McCain be the better choice?

Quote from: quiktaco on October 03, 2008, 12:24:12 PM

Quote from: The Buddha on October 03, 2008, 12:07:54 PM
BTW, I am fiscally conservative, anti abortion and sorta split on most other long running issues.
Pro ghey rights, pro gun, anti illegal immigration what not ...

According to these, wouldn't McCain be the better choice?

No ... not with palin added in ... With her, he's just pandering to the religious right.
McCain is anti illegal immigration by handing them legality ... -1 for him. OBama is only -1/2 here. He didn't write and push the bill atleast.

Anti abortion - not in the cases of rape and incest like Palin is ... Obama just said its between you and your god, and its above his pay grade. Does that mean its going to be in the laws as "allowed" I dont htink so, I think its going to end up in the hands of the states. This is a small point in favor of McCain, large point against Obama, a huuuuuge point against Palin.

McCain is fiscally irresponsible ... privatize the profits by deregulation, socialise the losses by bail out. Screw that, that is the W policy. Regulate all the time and prevent crap like this = the democrat way ... bad, but not as bad as the McCain way ... privatise the profits and dont bail sheite out ... prolly the best policy ... no one has the balls to suggest that except ron paul ... but McCain's way is very very bad. Obama is just very bad.

Ghey and Gun ... one to Obama and one to McCain - small issues IMHO.

Without Palin and Biden the other 2 are equally bad. Very very very closely in favor of obama. However the one descision Obama made that put him ahead was picking Biden. McCain blew it by not picking Giuliani, ridge, jindal, leibermann ... and totally lost it by picking Palin.
Cool.
Buddha.

QuoteMcCain is anti illegal immigration by handing them legality ... -1 for him. OBama is only -1/2 here. He didn't write and push the bill atleast.

Agree.  They shouldn't get legality.  It's all for personal gain on their parts, cause if they didn't do that, then they'd loose a ton of votes.

QuoteAnti abortion - not in the cases of rape and incest like Palin is ... Obama just said its between you and your god, and its above his pay grade. Does that mean its going to be in the laws as "allowed" I dont htink so, I think its going to end up in the hands of the states. This is a small point in favor of McCain, large point against Obama, a huuuuuge point against Palin.

Only time I would see it being ok, is when both the child and mother will die (no matter what) if it goes full term.  I don't see how we can punish a child for someone elses actions.  The rapist's should be killed.  Not the babies.  They can be raised by loving parents if put up for adoption, if the mother didn't want them.  There's just no reason to kill the babies.  And Obama being okay with letting a baby die due to neglect after birth, if a previous abortion attempt wasn't successful.  That's horrible.  No one can say that, that is not murder.  Give the kid to and adoption agency or at a fire station or hospital.  Don't just let it die.  That is a major point loss for Obama in my book.

QuoteMcCain is fiscally irresponsible ... privatize the profits by deregulation, socialise the losses by bail out. Screw that, that is the W policy. Regulate all the time and prevent crap like this = the democrat way ... bad, but not as bad as the McCain way ... privatise the profits and dont bail sheite out ... prolly the best policy ... no one has the balls to suggest that except ron paul ... but McCain's way is very very bad. Obama is just very bad.

I totally agree with you here

QuoteGhey and Gun ... one to Obama and one to McCain - small issues IMHO.

I'm anti ghey.  It's as bad as child pedofilia, incest, adultry, bestiality, and any other sodomistic type of sex.  I do think that ghey rights is a smaller issue.  I don't think gun rights is quite as small, though.  Smaller of course than most other things though.  So I understand you here.

QuoteWithout Palin and Biden the other 2 are equally bad. Very very very closely in favor of obama. However the one descision Obama made that put him ahead was picking Biden. McCain blew it by not picking Giuliani, ridge, jindal, leibermann ... and totally lost it by picking Palin.

I really don't think that Palin is bad.  She is really religious, which isn't a problem.  Not quite what I believe...not her denomination anyways, but closer to my own beliefs.  However, she's fought for and against things that needed to be fought.  She did this against Rep's and Dem's, and she got things done.  I really think she can do the same as a VP.  I do admit that she is a little overly Alaskan when she speaks about things, but she is the governor there.  She cares about that state, and I'm sure she'd care about this country just as much being in a national office.

maybe i should start a new thread but what the hell, i lay it out here. i only watced approx. 15-20 mins of the "VP DEBATE". now, correct me if i'm wrong, but it's supposed to be the VICE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE!!  in my mind, that should mean the VPs talk/debate how THEY stand on the issues at hand. what are THEIR policies/ideas etc. i'm so f%$king sick of hearing Palin say "well, you know, john mccain will do this and this and obama will not" and bidden say, "obama will do this and this and john mccain will not". WTF!!!!  oh, and i caught Bidden saying that back in 2005 obama knew there was a problem in sub-prime mortgages and sent a letter to the treasurey or someone to that effect. hmm..that's f%$king hilarious. i believe Bidden actually said obama knew there was a "crisis" (correct me if i'm wrong). now, if obama the all powerful friend of the people knew this, why the f%$k didn't he say something? and i'm not talking about some letter he sent to some other washington jack-off. i'm talking about US, the f%$king people he's asking to vote him into office! if you knew back then there was this major problem, f%$king SAY SOMETHING kitty cat!  seriously, get on whatever news outlet you can and tell people, "watch out, the banks are trying to pull a fast one. don't do this type of mortgage, please. it will f%$k shaZam! up, seriously." or something to that effect. for cryin out loud, now that this "crisis" is here, everyone is saying they knew about it in advance and tried to warn or tell "someone". give me a f%$king break, don't try to piss down my f%$king leg and tell me it's raining @$$hole.     




other than the above rant, my 27th birthday is going great.     

Quote from: jserio on October 03, 2008, 01:20:43 PM
maybe i should start a new thread but what the hell, i lay it out here. i only watced approx. 15-20 mins of the "VP DEBATE". now, correct me if i'm wrong, but it's supposed to be the VICE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE!!  in my mind, that should mean the VPs talk/debate how THEY stand on the issues at hand. what are THEIR policies/ideas etc. i'm so f%$king sick of hearing Palin say "well, you know, john mccain will do this and this and obama will not" and bidden say, "obama will do this and this and john mccain will not". WTF!!!!  oh, and i caught Bidden saying that back in 2005 obama knew there was a problem in sub-prime mortgages and sent a letter to the treasurey or someone to that effect. hmm..that's f%$king hilarious. i believe Bidden actually said obama knew there was a "crisis" (correct me if i'm wrong). now, if obama the all powerful friend of the people knew this, why the f%$k didn't he say something? and i'm not talking about some letter he sent to some other washington jack-off. i'm talking about US, the f%$king people he's asking to vote him into office! if you knew back then there was this major problem, f%$kING SAY SOMETHING kitty cat!  seriously, get on whatever news outlet you can and tell people, "watch out, the banks are trying to pull a fast one. don't do this type of mortgage, please. it will f%$k shaZam! up, seriously." or something to that effect. for cryin out loud, now that this "crisis" is here, everyone is saying they knew about it in advance and tried to warn or tell "someone". give me a f%$king break, don't try to piss down my f%$king leg and tell me it's raining @$$hole.     

Wow, couldn't have said it better myself.

I did catch the last 2.5 minutes of the debate last night.  The closing argument that Biden ended with, was something to the affect that "And I know that Obama is totally ready to be the next president of this United States".  Wasn't it just around 3 months ago that he's quoted as saying something like "No, I don't think Obama is ready, he's too inexperienced."  What happened in this last few months?  All I know that he's done is not show up for his job in the senate.  Oh wait! I think Biden is lying cause he wants to be VP!

Yea, rape and incest - not quite that simple. The woman who is in that position may have her life seriously interrupted by that and no adoption is not a guilt free pass. Parents who give up their kids literally die everyday, its extremely traumatic.I'd in that case take an abortion over adoption.

Ghey - See population control. Get the population as low as you can wihtout china style BS. However the illegals and the irresponsible are reproducing like bunnies and the ones who are responsible are ghey or not having kids ... total reverse of what is good for the world.

Palin is a moron ... Palin is a conceited, conniving, ignorant, bible thumping, small minded, petty and completely completely out of her game simpleton. She's hoping to get by on her looks, the fact that they have the element of surprise over the democrats and is hoping no one notices before the elections, after which in ~3 months she's going to jockey herself on McCain's heartattack into the white house.

Those that make the best first impressions dont make the best long term impressions, and she's not made an impression, she's just made a splash. Her dodging of 'what magazines have you read on current affairs" from softie katie elicited a 'I'll get back to you on that one response' ...

She's not an insider ... yet, but the instant she lands in the washington DC zip code she's going to be the trampiest lobbyist wheore ever seen this side of hollywood boulevard.

Obviously she's energised the base ... that was her job ... also listed as her job - one which no one has seen is getting pork to alaska (which is already the largest consumer of public dollars relative to their tax out flow as well as per capita), burying McCain, pandering to the right while lobbying herself into extreme wealth, making a fool, of herself with her ignorance with all foreign countries, selling out america's name, brand and standing in the world and making Bush/Cheney look like benevolent leaders and geniuses.

Many many many staunchly religious countries can keep religion out of their administration. Why cant we. Why is everything controlled by the religious right. The only countries that are worse in this regard are our best friends - saudi arabia and our worst enemies - Iran, Iraq and afganisthan.

BTW I have become more conservative after the bail out. I'd like to find a freight train go to washington DC and run over Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

Here is another good one I came up with ...

What does the "W" in George W bush stand for ...
The 2 trenches of the W stand for the 2 recessions in his term ...

BTW 2006 had already started the recession with housing crash leading the way, and Greenspan and most of the then republican congress take it squarely in the chin for this one. The loss mitigatoin efforts by the clueless democratic congress will only make it worse, and I'd like to hit those clowns with a freigh train for that.

The only meddling I'd like the government to do in a free market is to hand the address of the CEO's and the other top level executives to any one who complains of their misplaced trust/money/retirement etc and referee the kicking match that will follow when they find the executives on their yachts in the Long Island harbor.

Forget limiting CEO pay, what happened to the millions they were paid in the last few years when this crap was tanking ... and when they were stting up the schemes to cause it to tank. retroactively confiscate that $$ and arrest the clowns and cut off their trust funds to their kids. All their $ goes to charity or to the tax payers.

And Jserio - Obama was a pretty junior senator at that time, and really 1 voice against the whole raft of senators that were in Mozillo's pocket (Senator Dood is a biggie) and the many more in Fannie's pocket McCain amongst the biggest here is going to simply be drowned out.

Quiktaco - That not ready and ready - have you heard that the president typically grows in the job. That is what Obama has done. Heck even W has been credited with growing in the job ... gawsh dog gonne it ... how much worse would he have been if he hadn't ... and President Palin too plans to grow in the job ... she's just so hot right now though ... 
Cool.
Buddha.

It's not really that big of a thing to me.  I don't really care about all the inexperienced whatever crap.  Most people grow in the job.  I don't think anyone is 'ready' to be president.   There's nothing that really prepares fully for it.  That's why people go in looking 45-50 and come out looking 65-70 in a 4 year term.

I was just pointing out what he had said, cause he so conveniently changed his own mind about Obama going from not at all ready, to absolutely ready.

Maybe its because Obama has shown the wisdom to seek the guidance of his largest critic.

Maybe it is an abraham lincoln-esque thing to do. He picked his biggest dissenters and listened to them very very closely.
Seriously ... that willingness to get guidance is huuuuuuge ...
For example what do you think of a newb who listens to gstwin advice and check out and buys a good clean GS500 from one of the forum regulars.
He could well take advice from the hayabusa crowd ... after all they tell him bling is everything, and the gs500 kids just cannot afford or are not man enough to ride a busa ... and bling out a hayabusa and buy it taking a $20,000 loan at 24% interest and doesn't even ride it.

See how gstwin to real world to politics how easily it translates.

McCain has gotten the bling ... it would have even worked if he only had to cover 2-3 weeks before the election, now he's trying to ride his busa and guess what ... he's looking like a fool.

Cool.
Buddha

But damn, look at the tail section and the gauges on that busa.  J/K 

Yea the busa has good tail section, good headlights but McBain is still unable to ride her ... Too bad ... we were pulling for the old guy ... even with the viagro and practice helping him ... aint happening ...
Mean while ... the newbie got good advice ... he looks a little stupid cos he is a bit lanky for the GS ... but he's off to a good start ... lets see maybe after some practise he'd try the busa ...
Cool.
Buddha.

I still can't believe that f%$king bill passed.  Somewhere in washington there is a basement with a lot of senatorial and congressional testicles in jars.  It was like a depressing circus watching congressman/woman after congressman/woman stand up and say "I don't agree with this bill, but I'm voting for it anyway" 

A qoute from TS Eliot comes to mind:
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
Not with a bang but a whimper.

This is the start of the whimpering.


Come to think of it, the entire text of 'Hollow Men' seems very relevant.

first, jserio, look at vp debates for as long as I personally can remember.  Their job is to do a tiny bit of promoting themselves and a whole lot of promoting their presidential hopeful.  It would be foolish to get up there and talk on and on about what they would like to do, especially since they have very very little to do with decision making once in office.  Palin did not make an ass of herself and evryone is yelling that she did so good b/c she didn't do as bad as in other recent interviews.  WHAT??  Biden absolutely smoked her on almost everything!!  But, since she didn't completely bomb, she did great.  I do not think so, I hold them both to the same standards.  She could not pronounce world leaders names, she answered just whatever question she wanted regardless of the question actually asked, and her folksy talk made me se her as a simpleton.  Definately not a VP and possibly president during the worst economic times of my life.  I believe her religion is far far more a danger than Obama's religion is regardless of what you believe he is.  Let me explain this:  Let's say that all the crazy, mean ole', black church that QT describes is true.(not that I for one minute believe this rubbish, I will not listen to a few seconds of one single sermon and pretend that I know the entire church's philosophical views)  But, say it is true, the fact that he so quickly denounced it tells me that he could take it or leave it.  Now, Palin however is what I would call a religious zelot!!  She, IMO, is no better mentally than the terrorists that we have unsuccessfully been fighting for the past seven years.  I am positive that in a world of 6,706,993,152 people that every religious sect has some racist extremeists, but in my life I have meet far far more that are of a "christian" faith than any other.  It is very well possible that this is because I have always lived in perdominately christian areas, but that does not change the fact that there are some wack-o christians.  My whole point is the same as it was with every other bit of information that I see that tries to show Obama as anything different that what he says he is, it is put online for agenda seeking people that care very little about the truth and a lot about their agenda.  It is BS, I watched the video clip with Obama's old reverend on it and it was a single piece of a entire sermon of the entire history of the church.  How about I base the entirety of my opinion on one preists inability to keep his hands off of boys.  What if I base my entire opinion of christianity on the snake handling Pentecostal churches.  It is just narrow minded and ignorant.  

The only reason you are for McCain is that you are against Obama and their are very few reasons you are against Obama.  And few of those reasons have any validity.  The one single legitimate arguement is the abortion thing and he's not totally for abortion so, I guess you are not totally against Obama.  

Quote from: spc on October 03, 2008, 07:52:31 PM
I still can't believe that f%$king bill passed.  Somewhere in washington there is a basement with a lot of senatorial and congressional testicles in jars.  It was like a depressing circus watching congressman/woman after congressman/woman stand up and say "I don't agree with this bill, but I'm voting for it anyway" 

A qoute from TS Eliot comes to mind:
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
Not with a bang but a whimper.

This is the start of the whimpering.


Come to think of it, the entire text of 'Hollow Men' seems very relevant.

indeed Terry, i liked how Biden made reference to Mccains opposition, to a war funding bill. BUT neglected to mention the opposition was because of a timeline. ( THAT would be info YOU DO NOT let out into public hands), nme sees, " us will be out by may '09" nme thinks, okay we wait till mid may 09 and then we move. that IMHO was the source of the opposition. and WTF this 700b pkg which was signed in today was so loaded with pork, it made walmarts grocery store envious

this bail out is not going to solve anything.   wall street needs to be regulated and properly insured under government control to insure that it is handled properly. oh yes you free market people i can hear you taking a deep breath to ready yourself in protest.  STOP.  you can not have it both ways.   you want government help when you have let greed and stupidity ruin your company and drain almost a trillion(very hard to comprehend) dollars from stock holders you need to answer for it.  you have proved you can not do it under "capitalism".    all this free market crap and American dream nonsense is just that.  if you look at the asset to debt ratio of American you will see that we are losing ground daily.  even our own government(s) are spending money like a drunk sailor in foreign port.  who is going to pay for this?  our children, our grandchildren?  i doubt it .   again look at Canada.  back in the early 90's they passed a law that federal budgets had to be balanced in the books.  after 15 years not only have Canadian managed their balanced budgets but they have decreased the debt load considerably.  the city i was deputy mayor of has wiped out its dept totally...nothing red on the books anymore at all.  this fiscal responsibility started before i got elected but i was president of the chamber of commerce at the time.  the chamber supported it completely.  once elected i continued to keep our books together and brought in to law Sunday shopping to increase revenue. i did this with NO tax increases.   it just took some tightening of the belt.

trillions and trillions we are just over spent.  where to cut?  police, jails and the military.  do we really need that much protection? no it is fear mongering.  jail is just college for criminals. get them where it hurts the pocket book.  we are putting so many people in jail because it is big business.  states and counties contract out jails to private corps who in turn employ locals and pay taxes.  people are in jail for the silliest of reasons. take speeding for example.   it is all greed greed and greed.  the housing crisis should be a wake up call but it is not and will not be.  America and Americans are born and raised to want to make money.  it takes president over anything else, money money money.  it is just a terrible way to live.   i am not poor but nor am i rich.  i live on my 40k or so(after tax) pensions and i am happy with that. i don't want or need the big flashy home or car.  that is for people that are much less intelligent than i.  i would rather be happy in my life as a person with my family and friends than to  make more money.  i lived and worked the go go go of business and i did not like it at all.  sure i made money but that was not enough to keep me there.  i needed more in life. 

OK too long of a post and most of you, like myself, will not read it.

Frankie